//xD oops i spelled hear wrong

well hi!

If you ask me, someone who's christian is

1. Brainwashed since an early age

2. Desperate from some explanation becuase of a loved ones death or something similar

3. A not smart

Yes there are some rare excepection where people that are not stupid become very strong religious christians (i have yet to meet one but im convinced they exist).

All right so, Ive lived with christian relatives and friends my whole life. I live in a town of 99% christians. All of my authorities (teachers, police, all those dudes) are christian. Yet i am still far from convinced

PLEASE! CHRISTIANS! present me with some information that would give a person logical reason to believe in the fairy tales of the bible.

I gaurentee that every point you present me with proving the truth of the bible, i can present you with 2 points that are equally as powerful as to why its NOT true.

COME ON GUYS! its obvious that there is no god. People are people! we are organism's thats sole purpose is to survive!

anyone agree? disagree?

[This message has been edited by LiveWire (edited 06-29-2006).]

If you're genuinely interested in rational reasons for believing in Christianity, I'd recommend Evidence That Demands a Verdict. I disagree with much of his reasoning, but at least he has reasoning.

Do you want arguments that'll make you believe the Bible is the literal truth about reality?

Or arguments that'll make you believe that Jesus was a mere human being who had powerful messages about reality that are true?

The first is impossible, the second is quite easy.

quote:Originally posted by LiveWire:

COME ON GUYS! its obvious that there is no god.

I'm not religious myself, but I believe that is far from true. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

quote:Originally posted by imperfectcircle:

I'm not religious myself, but I believe that is far from true. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

Im not saying its obvious that there is no god at all. im just saying its obvious that the god described in the bible is not real.

quote:Originally posted by imperfectcircle:

Do you want arguments that'll make you believe the Bible is the literal truth about reality?

Or arguments that'll make you believe that Jesus was a mere human being who had powerful messages about reality that are true?

The first is impossible, the second is quite easy.

I agree. I never said i disagreed with all the teaching in the bible or from jesus. I havn't researched it but i believe that there was a jesus that was an excellent leader with a lot of intellegence and influence over people. Do i believe he came from a mother who never had sex? not a chance. It's those kind of things in the bible that give me the impression of Christianity being a rediculous belief

quote:Originally posted by jsaxton14:

If you're genuinely interested in rational reasons for believing in Christianity, I'd recommend Evidence That Demands a Verdict. I disagree with much of his reasoning, but at least he has reasoning.

Well I didn't read the book but i did a google on it and read some of one of the first pages that comes up

http://www.islandnet.com/~luree/evidence.html

that guy seems to think it doesnt have any real fact to it just emotion and opinion.

Christians pride themselves on their faith. Let them believe what they want, as long as they're not imposing their beliefs on you.

I personally believe that Jesus existed... not as the son of god or any of that. There are parts of the bible that can be proven, such as the red sea parting. But that doesn't mean burning bushes talk to people, or that Jesus could walk on water or turn water into wine. I don't think Jesus was an average guy, but I don't put too much thought into it.

Theres something im missing that obviously many other people have. My mom told me i needed faith ...maybe thats it. All i know is that from my point of view, it would be so difficult to believe in the far out stories of Christianity, i cant imagine anyone with a curious, intellegent brain to ever believe most of it.

Maybe its just because i havnt lived long enough and met enough people yet, but it seems the great majority of christians i meet are narrow minded. Everything they do is predictable and conforming. I think christianity seems to incourage being closed minded in a subtle way.

Even though i find christians to often think very differntly then me and have an entirely different outlook on life, i still have many christian friends. Its not that i dont like christians, in fact they seem to be very nice people on average.

anyway i dunno where im heading xD

quote:Originally posted by firekitty751:

Christians pride themselves on their faith. Let them believe what they want, as long as they're not imposing their beliefs on you.

I personally believe that Jesus existed... not as the son of god or any of that. There are parts of the bible that can be proven, such as the red sea parting. But that doesn't mean burning bushes talk to people, or that Jesus could walk on water or turn water into wine. I don't think Jesus was an average guy, but I don't put too much thought into it.

I let them believe what they like but it seems they have a harder time doing the same for me.

I guess religion is alright. Some people seem to need religion to put their faith into something and make them feel like its all worth it.

quote:Originally posted by LiveWire:

I agree. I never said i disagreed with all the teaching in the bible or from jesus. I havn't researched it but i believe that there was a jesus that was an excellent leader with a lot of intellegence and influence over people. Do i believe he came from a mother who never had sex? not a chance. It's those kind of things in the bible that give me the impression of Christianity being a rediculous belief

K then you should know that this thread is like picking a fight with a quadriplegic.

quote:Originally posted by LiveWire:

Well I didn't read the book but i did a google on it and read some of one of the first pages that comes up

http://ww w.islandne t.com/~lur ee/evidence.html (http: //www.isla ndnet.com/ ~luree/evi dence.html )

that guy seems to think it doesnt have any real fact to it just emotion and opinion.

I don't agree with the guy either, and his writing is obviously incredibly biased. However, he brings up some good points (although I still reject Christianity). One argument I originally found intriguing was the one involving the "seventy sevens" prophecy. If you're genuinely interested you should consider looking into that.

quote:Originally posted by LiveWire:

//

well hi!

COME ON GUYS! its obvious that there is no god. People are people! we are organism's thats sole purpose is to survive!

anyone agree? disagree?



I disagree with "Its obvious that there is no God" the rest I agree with. Then again, my idea of God and your idea are probably different, I bet almost everyone in here knows at least partially what my idea is as I've written it in almost every topic here lol.

I'd like to talk to you on MSN or AIM

abrahimesker

abrahimesker@hotmail.com

quote:Originally posted by imperfectcircle:

Do you want arguments that'll make you believe the Bible is the literal truth about reality?

Or arguments that'll make you believe that Jesus was a mere human being who had powerful messages about reality that are true?

The first is impossible, the second is quite easy.

I like this guy!

quote:Originally posted by LiveWire:

COME ON GUYS! It's obvious there's no god.



Well...

One of the things I can for sure is that God is not obvious. It's all very flaky, speculative, jittery, and insecure. I mean, look at it. (This is from Dan Barker's debate vs. Bill Fernandes)

Imagine if scientists would meet once a week and hold hands and sing, "We believe in gravity, yes we do, we believe in gravity, what goes up up up must come down down down."

The fact is, God is a mystery. It is not obvious that there is one.

It is extremely obvious, however, that people have desires for there to be a God.

It is very easy to prove this - just look at history. As humans evolved to higher thought, they started inventing Gods and they haven't stopped. Even today people still make up Gods all the time. (Mormons, Heaven's gate cult, etc).

[This message has been edited by IanBoyd3 (edited 07-02-2006).]

quote:they started inventing Gods and they haven't stopped.[/B]

key word: inventing

Lots of people have had something to say about when i said that its obvious there is no god.

i definently worded that wrong. What i ment was that the god described in the bible isn't logical. If he existed why wouldn't he resolve all these religious conflicts and wars by simply proving his existance? easy enough for god right? afterall he made the entire world in 6 days.

In my opinion the entire concept is flawed. Where would god have come from? If god is up there why isn't he setting things straight and helping us out?

quote:Originally posted by LiveWire:

Lots of people have had something to say about when i said that its obvious there is no god.

i definently worded that wrong. What i ment was that the god described in the bible isn't logical. If he existed why wouldn't he resolve all these religious conflicts and wars by simply proving his existance? easy enough for god right? afterall he made the entire world in 6 days.

In my opinion the entire concept is flawed. Where would god have come from? If god is up there why isn't he setting things straight and helping us out?

Ever read what I gotta say about God? Don't like my concept either?

quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

Ever read what I gotta say about God? Don't like my concept either?

no i havnt read what you think but ill look around and see =)

quote:Originally posted by LiveWire:

no i havnt read what you think but ill look around and see =)



I can copy paste it here if you like! Its all over the place already though.

i've asked some of my friends to say why the believe. they always say they can feel god's presence. i proceed to laugh and walk away.

quote:Originally posted by LiveWire:

Lots of people have had something to say about when i said that its obvious there is no god.

i definently worded that wrong. What i ment was that the god described in the bible isn't logical. If he existed why wouldn't he resolve all these religious conflicts and wars by simply proving his existance? easy enough for god right? afterall he made the entire world in 6 days.

In my opinion the entire concept is flawed. Where would god have come from? If god is up there why isn't he setting things straight and helping us out?

You have a point there. I do feel that the christian God with all of its flaky evidence ad-hoc explanations and wrong doings should be obviously false to all rational people, but you know how it is.

I agree with you about faith. Ultimately, faith is a form of agnosticism, because if you knew something was true, you wouldn't need faith.

Faith is the fundamental problem that I have with the religion, and above all else, probably the root cause of my disbelief. It wasn't the reason I first doubted and started disbelieving, but I have feeling that the gnawing suspicions I felt in my heart of hearts may have been the faith problem.

quote:Originally posted by LiveWire:

key word: inventing

key word: wtf?