Lately, I've became quite close friends with a muslim buddy of mine. I am chinese, so I was raised with little to none religious influence. As we began to talk about our lives, his religion became one of the topics we talked about. Now, I believe that religion is a poison, that is slowing killing our world. It has caused death, war, and hate among humanity, and that, to me, cannot be justified by whatever good it has done and is capable of. I never said that in our conversation since I didn't want to start a huge arguement and ended up with my friend hating me.

But lately, I've begun to realize how big of a role religion plays in people's lives all around me, that I haven't noticed before, since religion is practiced much more privately in everyday life(as opposed to politics). This leads to my conflict, I am having trouble being friends with people who have religion in their lives. For example, I broke up a relationship with this girl earlier this year because she was christian, and I really liked her, but I couldn't bring myself to be someone who was christian. I never told her why, because I thought leaving her was bad enough.

I know that society teaches me to be tolerant, I know that this should not be a problem, but it is. When I am with these people, I feel like I cannot be truly comfortable around them, either because I know there is a zone that I can go into, or because a part of me thinks I'm better than they are(I know I'm not).

What I'm asking is, does anyone have the same experience as I do? And if so, how do you cope with it? I would like to also hear from the other side's point of view.

[This message has been edited by Holy Shit (edited 07-03-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Holy Shit:

Lately, I've became quite close friends with a muslim buddy of mine. I am chinese, so I was raised with little to none religious influence. As we began to talk about our lives, his religion became one of the topics we talked about. Now, I believe that religion is a poison, that is slowing killing our world. It has caused death, war, and hate among humanity, and that, to me, cannot be justified by whatever good it has done and is capable of. I never said that in our conversation since I didn't want to start a huge arguement and ended up with my friend hating me.

But lately, I've begun to realize how big of a role religion plays in people's lives all around me, that I haven't noticed before, since religion is practiced much more privately in everyday life(as opposed to politics). This leads to my conflict, I am having trouble being friends with people who have religion in their lives. For example, I broke up a relationship with this girl earlier this year because she was christian, and I really liked her, but I couldn't bring myself to be someone who was christian. I never told her why, because I thought leaving her was bad enough.

I know that society teaches me to be tolerant, I know that this should not be a problem, but it is. When I am with these people, I feel like I cannot be truly comfortable around them, either because I know there is a zone that I can go into, or because a part of me thinks I'm better than they are(I know I'm not).

What I'm asking is, does anyone have the same experience as I do? And if so, how do you cope with it? I would like to also hear from the other side's point of view.



Religion? Has a bible ever shot a person? People are the ones who cause the problems.

quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

Religion? Has a bible ever shot a person? People are the ones who cause the problems.

It's not the person's fault! It's the gun's fault. The gun is the one that kills.

quote:Originally posted by Holy Shit:

It's not the person's fault! It's the gun's fault. The gun is the one that kills.

A finger pulls the trigger!

The gun doesn't say, "kill him!"

Read Leviticus. The Bible demands, in dozens of verses, for one man to slaughter his fellow man.

If I tell someone to kill someone else, and that person actually follows through with my demand, I'm guilty of consipiracy, at the very least. In some states I'm guilty of first degree murder. Why? Because if I didn't tell that person to pull the trigger, no one would have been killed. Just as the legal system holds us accountable for our actions, we should hold religion accountable for its actions.

(It's the combination of the gun and the person.)

As far as I'm concerned, I would much rather make my own decisions on morality and beliefs than feel bound to obey questionable scriptures.

But I do have a Christian friend, who is possibly the nicest person I have ever met. He doesn't try to impose any of his beliefs on me, he is tolerant of my own beliefs, and he puts up with me occasionally taking the piss out of his religion.

Religion, while an important part of people's lives, is not the only part. Sure, you might not get on with people who accept faith without thought or question, but you can't deny that there are good, intelligent people who believe in their chosen religion because of deep, spiritual feelings that you simply may not have. And who are you to say they're wrong?

Separating yourself from people with different beliefs is not the way to go.

Jx

I hear you. I have a really religious Baptist friend who is always trying to get me to go to church with him. It kind of limits what we can talk about and what I can joke about, so it is pretty uncomfortable at times.

Other than that, I would never date a religious person based on the fact that we would always have something missing between us.

I BELIEVE THAT MANY PEOPLE USE GOD OR RELIGION AS AN EXCUSE TO KILL PEOPLE, MANIPULATE PEOPLE, AND THEY TRY TO JUSTIFY IT BECAUSE IT WAS THEIR MANIFESTDESTINY. THAT IS SO FUCKED. "HOLY WARS" WHAT THE FUCK IS SO HOLY ABOUT A WAR. LIKE REALLY, LIKE I'M NATIVE LIKE I SAID BEFORE, AND MANY OF MY PEOPLE WERE IN RESIDENTIAL SCHOOLS AND THEY WERE RAPED AND ABUSED BECAUSE AS SOME AND MOST OF THE PRIESTS WOULD PUT IT, "I'M RELEASING THE DEMONS FROM YOU, BECAUSE BEING INDIAN IS A SIN" LIKE FUCK THAT. WHOEVER BELIEVES IN THIS KIND OF GOD IS STUPID. GOD NO MATTER WHICH WAY YOU BELIEVE IN HIM OR THEM IS THERE TO GUIDE YOU AND HELP YOU BE A BETTER PERSON, FOR YOURSELF AND FOR OTHER PEOPLE.I CAN'T STAND PEOPLE THAT BLAME GOD FOR THE BAD THINGS THAT HAPPEN IN THIS WORLD. IT'S NOT HIS FAULT, ULTIMATELY GOD CAN'T MAKE YOU OR PHYSICALLY TAKE OVER YOUR BODY AND PULL THE TRIGGER ON SOMEONE... IF THIS EVER HAPPEND... HA PROVE IT TO ME...IF THIS IS HAPPEND, THAT AIN'T GOD, THAT IS I GUESS WHAT YOU WOULD CALL A DEVIL!AND I DON'T BELIEVE IN HIM. PEOPLE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN ADVERSITIES AND MISHAPS, AND I BELIEVE THINGS LIKE THAT ARE THERE TO LEARN FROM. LIKE WEED IS THERE TO TEST OUR STRENGTH TO SAY NO, IF WE DON'T HAVE A LEGIT REASON TO SMOKE IT.(I'M THE ONE TO TALK, I'M A HUG POTHEAD,AND I AIN'T PROUD) SO WELL YEAH...SURE I FELT LIKE YOU DID, MY BEST FRIEND TOLD ME SHE LOVED ME BUT I WAS GOING TO HELL BECAUSE I WAS NOT A CHRISTIAN. THAN I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO THINK OF HER.

OH YEAH, SORRY TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, "HOW DID I COPE WITH IT"

I FOUND A SPIRITUALITY AND BELIEF THAT SUITED ME, AND WAYS THAT IS PROVED IT WAS RIGHT FOR ME, AND SAID WELL, "IF YOUR RELIGION WORKS FOR YOU, AND MAKES YOU A BETTER PERSON, THAN THAT'S A GOOD THING;HOWEVER IF IT DOESN'T THAN WHY WOULD YOU BELIEVE IN IT."

Turn that bloody Caps Lock off.



Seriously though, "Eloquence"?

Jx

Shyt sorry, it's always either/or. I am writing too big, or too small. I don't know I'm freakin' weird.

Eloquence is just my rapping a.k.a.

Now shut up! lol jk.

Most everyone in my life, friend or family, is religious. I respect their beliefs. I listen to their testaments. I don't feel belittled by them, even when they cop a Holier Than Thou attitude on me. They have found a way of life that works for them, and are just wanting to spread that feeling around to everyone they come into contact with. No harm done.

A few have tried to sway me using tactics that are designed to make me feel inferior, but it just rolls right off my skin, which has gotten pretty thick over the years defending myself from these do-gooders.

I find that most of them who know me well enough know that I am not living a corrupt, morally bankrupt lifestyle. If asked, I discuss with them how living my life as a secular humanist is beneficial, and usually in the end - there is some sort of compromise drawn that allows my belief system and their belief system to co-exist peacefully.

It used to really bother me when my religious friends or family would look at me with the utmost pity in their eyes, stating that they were going to "pray for me". That no longer irritates me. Let them include me in their prayers - it's a kind gesture, no matter how you look at it. I often reply with: "Thanks, I'll be thinking of you, too."

I don't feel as though I have any sort of edge over them either. Perhaps they would feel an emptiness inside that I never experienced personally if they were to give up their religions. Some of them rely on it so heavily to even face their day each day, that it would probably do more harm than good. I would dare not attempt to pull that comfort zone out from underneath them.

But that's friends and family. I've actually met religious people who, within minutes or hours of first meeting, are already damning me to hell and pointing out how incomplete my life is without God in it. My life. MY life! From an utter stranger, who can't possibly claim to be in the know about who I am as a person.

There is no congeniality to be had for those sort of folks. I don't respond well to arrogance and persecution.



[This message has been edited by AngryFemme (edited 07-03-2006).]

Well the problem I have is not people forcing their beliefs on me. It's just that the difference between us is cretaing a gap between me and my friends.

It should be easy. Just don't bring up the faith, and ask them kindly not to. If they can't respect your wishes, then can you truly count on them as friends?

If they don't talk about it at all in your company and you STILL have a problem coping with them just because they don't share your set of beliefs - then maybe you should aspire to get some friends who are exactly like you in your way of thinking. I'll warn you, though - it might be quite dull. Diversity is what makes people so damned interesting to each other!

When my one of religious zealots that populate my area tell me I am going to hell it boosts my day. I laugh at such ignorance (especially since I know they are throwing stones in a glass house).

[This message has been edited by Q777 (edited 07-03-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by AngryFemme:

It should be easy. Just don't bring up the faith, and ask them kindly not to. If they can't respect your wishes, then can you truly count on them as friends?

If they don't talk about it at all in your company and you STILL have a problem coping with them just because they don't share your set of beliefs - then maybe you should aspire to get some friends who are exactly like you in your way of thinking. I'll warn you, though - it might be quite dull. Diversity is what makes people so damned interesting to each other!

To a religious person, they wouldn't truly be friends if they didn't constantly try to save you from eternal damnation or just gave up on you. To them it would be like respecting a friends wishes to kill themselves.

quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

To a religious person, they wouldn't truly be friends if they didn't constantly try to save you from eternal damnation or just gave up on you. To them it would be like respecting a friends wishes to kill themselves.

Using the same logic Holy Shit should help his friends rid them selves of the poison of religion as he describes it.

quote:Originally posted by Q777:

Using the same logic Holy Shit should help his friends rid them selves of the poison of religion as he describes it.

I actually have, he's considering it a bit too. The muslim guy. Christians are harder to talk to about this. They immediately declare anything that conflicts with their beliefs as false and evil, the ones i met anyways.

It really depends on where you are geographically. I live in a country where many people are religious, but not overly so; it does not occupy every facet of most citizens' lives here. Because of that, it's easy to co-exist with, and even befriend religious folk here simply because (for the most part) these people aren't even following most parts of their religion, aside from basic tenants taught to them as fables when they were children. (Don't kill others, etc.)

Now, I still think what religious belief they do have is childish and utterly stupid, but since it's not causing them to trample all over my life and the lives of those I care about, it's no big deal.

That said, there are still a few hardcore religionists out here, and I knew one before she became like that. Before she was a very sweet person, and now I'm terribly uncomfortable just being in the same room with her. Part of this is her behaviour; now she mentions God and Jesus and all the nonsense every 4 seconds instead of making actual conversation. I also think I'm uncomfortable around her and others like her because I know there's something wrong with them; I get the same feeling when I'm around sick people in a doctor's office or a hospital. People like that remind us of our own mortality... and in the case of religionists, they remind us of our own mental integrity.

There is a difference between organized religion and personal beliefs. One can believe in object 1 and call it Islam, and another person can believe in object 2 and call it Islam. They can be similar but the way they are executed are different.

People having a personal belief in a god is simply a personal belief. People who try to push god on others is a personal choice. People are defined by the actions they choose to make, and judging them by their beliefs which don't bother anyone is a bad way to go when you can see their actions are good.

My thoughts.

quote:Originally posted by Holy Shit:

I actually have, he's considering it a bit too. The muslim guy. Christians are harder to talk to about this. They immediately declare anything that conflicts with their beliefs as false and evil, the ones i met anyways.

CAN I TALK TO MUSLIM GUY ONLINE PLEASE I WANT TO TEACH HIM ABOUT HIS RELIGION K THX!