Religion is for the weak of mind.

Religion was created to govern the masses, and in the process has created wars and atrocities throughout the centuries.

I ask you, what if we didn't need to rely on ancient texts describing talking snakes, talking bushes on fire, killing innocents to aquire virgins in "heaven", and a cruel vindictive god, that punishes his children for doing things he allowed us to be able to do in the first place.

What if we only worried on the here, and now. Society would benefit greatly from the advances in technology and the science/medical field. Religion has only torn us apart, and created death, instead of what it was meant to do, cherish it. I say we reject it, and live for the here and now, and when we all eventually die, let the chips fall where they may.

I will finish this rant with one of my favorite quotes...

"I suggest that we might want to depose this incumbent God and start dealing with The Real World. He's proven — time and again — to be cruel, capricious, and vindictive. He drowns, crushes, burns, and starves millions of us every day. He created cancer, viruses, and germs to invade and destroy our bodies as He sees fit, and uses them very effectively. In His wisdom, He directed those in charge to impede stem cell research so that such a powerful approach would not be available to us and He wouldn't have to strain the Divine Intellect to disarm that defense. We amuse Him as we flail about vainly trying to appease Him. I vote that we dump Him."

-- James Randi

Discuss.

Please tell me of a goverment which reached a point where not a single citizen living under it was poor.

quote:Originally posted by Loc Dogg:

Please tell me of a goverment which reached a point where not a single citizen living under it was poor.

Indeed. The "Perfect" government would be communism, in which everyone would be equal, and not essentially "poor". But, due to the jealous, power-hungry need we humans crave, this type of government crumbles quickly under corruption from the higher-ups.

quote:Originally posted by Spike Spiegel:

Indeed. The "Perfect" government would be communism, in which everyone would be equal, and not essentially "poor". But, due to the jealous, power-hungry need we humans crave, this type of government crumbles quickly under corruption from the higher-ups.

That would be good, if it wasn't for teh corruption. A Caliphate, or Islamic government has a thing called Zakat. 2.5% of all the money you earn is taken and given to the poor. With all the money that these Muslim countries have, they would effectively eliminate poverty. But as usual, these Arab countries are corrupt and they claim to be Muslim, but they are far from it.

I was going to go on a rant about how good an Islamic government would be, but I won't, instead I'll just say that you don't NEED it, but you would be better off with it. Maybe YOU wouldn't be better off with it, but any government that FORCES you to give money to the poor is very good.

Speaking of which, would you ever consider stealing if you knew the punishment was removal of your hand? Note that you wouldn't need to steal, since the government has so much fucking money and if you ever need money to survive, you get it.

quote:Originally posted by Loc Dogg:

any government that FORCES you to give money to the poor is very good.



Indeed.



quote:Originally posted by Loc Dogg:

[B]Speaking of which, would you ever consider stealing if you knew the punishment was removal of your hand? Note that you wouldn't need to steal, since the government has so much fucking money and if you ever need money to survive, you get it.[B]

I would have no point to steal, unless it was for survival, so no, I would not.

[This message has been edited by Spike Spiegel (edited 07-16-2006).]

Exactly. Muslim governemnts take care of everything. The Islamic Empire reached a point where they would send Zakat to Africa, but there was nobody there to give it to. They were all finacially secure. And look what has happened to Africa now. Talking about how evil religion is, yet the greed of man has destroyed it.

You talk about how we need science and shit. Take a look back at history. While Christian Europe was running around burning witches and killing people who were left handed, the Muslim Empire was at the pinnacle of technology and research. They took all previous information and built on it.

You talk about how religion tears people apart. Religion hasn't done anything. What is a Bible or Qur'an without people to follow it? It's the people that are the problem. They aren't educated enough to understand. killing innocents to acquire virgins in heaven? That's exactly what I'm talking about. That's complete bulshit, they are too stupid to understand the truth behind it. And God is not cruel and vindictive. It's not his fault people do these things.

I guess you, along with many others would ask, "Why does God allow these bad things to happen?"

[30:41] Corruption has spread throughout the land and sea, because of what the people have committed. He thus lets them taste the consequences of some of their works, that they may return (to the right works).

What the verse is saying is that if people do not follow the Truth, God's word properly, corruption will spead, and people will taste the results of their corruption. "That they may return to the right works". And you're telling us religion isn't needed. You've clearly seen what corruption has caused, whether it was corruption of Religion or something else. Religion is not to blame.

He’s right, with philosophy, government, spirituality(you can have spirituality and believe in god without being a dogmatic, religious cunt) and science, there is no fucking need for religion. It’s causing more harm than good.

quote:Originally posted by Overman:

He’s right, with philosophy, government, spirituality(you can have spirituality and believe in god without being a dogmatic, religious cunt) and science, there is no fucking need for religion. It’s causing more harm than good.

I agree. A person can be spiritual without believing in god at all.

Perfection is in the eye of the beholder.

A government in which everyone in it thought it was perfect would be perfect.

Unless someone in said government is afraid of perfection.

Shit.

We all need some kind of spirituality.

quote:Originally posted by TINYTANKER:

We all need some kind of spirituality.

Spirituality, NOT RELIGION, there's a difference.

quote:Originally posted by TINYTANKER:

We all need some kind of spirituality.

Where did you get that information from? I'm getting by just fine with any "spirituality" whatsoever as I reject the idea of a spirit as there is no evidence whatsoever for such a thing.

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

--Psalm 14:1 (KJV)

quote:Originally posted by AeroDynamic:

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

--Psalm 14:1 (KJV)

Whoever wrote the bible would write that, they want fools to beleive in it.

quote:Originally posted by AeroDynamic:

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

--Psalm 14:1 (KJV)

You are probly trolling but I will take the bait any way

Would you say all these people are fools, corrupted, and all have done abominable acts? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_atheists

and this short movie does a good job at talking about that passage. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-8eEDePOTA

Religion is the fool's reason for why the sun rises in the morning. I'm perfectly comfortable with "I don't know" as opposed to going along with whatever thousand-year-old dogma written by some douchebags in the Middle East had to say about it.

Even without religious bullshit hindering us, human nature will still present many, many challenges. People can and will still be dicks to each other. But, at least they won't have "God told me!" to justify their stupid bullshit. That should help things.

quote:Originally posted by Albatross:



Have you ever seen Monty Python's Live At the Hollywood Bowl?

Just curious.



It isn't religion in itself that causes these problems, it's organized religion. Religion is simply a code of morals based around a supernatural being, the majority of which emphasize promoting good and kind actions. Unfortunately, it's when assholes start to misinterpret the teachings of said religions and carry them too far, then certain things like the Crusades or the Spanish Inquistion happen.

If people were to practice religion alone and were not so quick to press their religion upon others, then the issue would be mostly resolved.

Religion is derived from religios, meaning "way of life", so the idea of there being a perfect religion that is suitable for every one is impossible. There are as many ways of living as there are people on this earth.

So, in conclusion-screw organized religion, we don't need it.

Human beings are causing "more harm than good" lets get rid of them!

*roaches laugh maniacly*

No matter what you take away, until you take away our humanity, we will fight each other, and kill each other, over even the smallest things...Why? Because We IS Man! and We IS ANGORY!

I don't think it is possible to point to one instution (religion, government, etc.) and claim it to be the source of humanity's woes. Behind most every force in our society and in our world there is a human drive behind it. People are corruptible, and by extension they cause the institutions and organizations which they serve to be corrupted.

You won't fix a thing by severing one aspect of society. Just as Abrahim said above me, so long as we exist we continue to do good things, but we also cause some really fucked up shit along the way.

quote:Originally posted by karma_sleeper:

I don't think it is possible to point to one instution (religion, government, etc.) and claim it to be the source of humanity's woes. Behind most every force in our society and in our world there is a human drive behind it. People are corruptible, and by extension they cause the institutions and organizations which they serve to be corrupted.

You won't fix a thing by severing one aspect of society. Just as Abrahim said above me, so long as we exist we continue to do good things, but we also cause some really fucked up shit along the way.

I never said you could, but by getting rid of religion you could make life a bit better.

quote:Originally posted by Overman:

I never said you could, but by getting rid of religion you could make life a bit better.



And I'm arguing that it wouldn't do any good because people are corruptible and in the greater scheme of things it wouldn't change much or prevent furture atrocities.

All religions are far to dogmatic and defeat the object of life and contradict themselves.

I am a "spiritualist" but I would't be put in a catagory if you asked my beliefs.

Religion is unimportant for it is the soul that lives inside us all that is truly God.

I believe that is what Jesus was trying to say.

Don't think about serving God, think about serving your soul. Not your ego, your soul.

spiritualism is just a cheap knock-off of buddhism. you meditate, you don't believe in serving your ego, you want to reach enlightenment, and you reincarnate. why is everyone copying buddhism.

Religion gives temporary, bull shit answers to questions we cannot yet answer with fact. It gives made up reasons to cover its flaws.

Religion is short for "stupid beliefs".

quote:Originally posted by Isobutane:

Religion gives temporary, bull shit answers to questions we cannot yet answer with fact. It gives made up reasons to cover its flaws.

Religion is short for "stupid beliefs".

QTF.

quote:Originally posted by Spike Spiegel:

Indeed. The "Perfect" government would be communism, in which everyone would be equal, and not essentially "poor". But, due to the jealous, power-hungry need we humans crave, this type of government crumbles quickly under corruption from the higher-ups.



i disagree, the best government is no government. if you think about it, anarchy governs itself

quote:Originally posted by Isobutane:

Religion gives temporary, bull shit answers to questions we cannot yet answer with fact. It gives made up reasons to cover its flaws.

Religion is short for "stupid beliefs".



Ya rly.

quote:Originally posted by Loc Dogg:

Exactly. Muslim governemnts take care of everything. The Islamic Empire reached a point where they would send Zakat to Africa, but there was nobody there to give it to. They were all finacially secure. And look what has happened to Africa now. Talking about how evil religion is, yet the greed of man has destroyed it.

You talk about how we need science and shit. Take a look back at history. While Christian Europe was running around burning witches and killing people who were left handed, the Muslim Empire was at the pinnacle of technology and research. They took all previous information and built on it.

You talk about how religion tears people apart. Religion hasn't done anything. What is a Bible or Qur'an without people to follow it? It's the people that are the problem. They aren't educated enough to understand. killing innocents to acquire virgins in heaven? That's exactly what I'm talking about. That's complete bulshit, they are too stupid to understand the truth behind it. And God is not cruel and vindictive. It's not his fault people do these things.

I guess you, along with many others would ask, "Why does God allow these bad things to happen?"

[30:41] Corruption has spread throughout the land and sea, because of what the people have committed. He thus lets them taste the consequences of some of their works, that they may return (to the right works).

What the verse is saying is that if people do not follow the Truth, God's word properly, corruption will spead, and people will taste the results of their corruption. "That they may return to the right works". And you're telling us religion isn't needed. You've clearly seen what corruption has caused, whether it was corruption of Religion or something else. Religion is not to blame.

agreed 100%

quote:Originally posted by jsaxton14:

Where did you get that information from? I'm getting by just fine with any "spirituality" whatsoever as I reject the idea of a spirit as there is no evidence whatsoever for such a thing.

Strictly speaking you're right, but I think you missed the "spirit" of what he was saying.

Spirituality also is used as a synonym for things like meditation and what not. You know, just thinking hard about life, getting stoned and getting a new perspective, and appreciating your life.

Relatively few people, I think, would claim that religion is the root cause of all human suffering. However, this thread states that we don't need it, and that is absolutely correct. Others on here have said it does more harm than good, also very true. I hate hearing people say, "It's not the religion that's corrupt, it's the people who misinterperet it." This makes the ludicrous assumption that the people involved in the very creation of said religion were acting entirely out of selfless love for their fellow man. Excuse me while I laugh until my keyboard is soaked with drool. Moreover, nearly every extant religion in the world, certainly the five major ones (that's Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism), are prime examples of the social tendency towards mindless authoritarianism. Even in the modern world, these ideologies reach out from thousands of years ago to taint our every innovation. They have promoted a worldview, almost universally accepted, that mankind is a divided being, eternally at odds with itself, and worst of all that this is the way it always must be. To put it delicately, FUCK THAT. Einstein said "No problem can be solved at the same level of awareness that created it." Those ancient prophets and messiahs are dead, and this is our world now. Embrace the future.

[This message has been edited by Kallisti (edited 07-25-2006).]