to all you atheists, why do you have morals?

i could elaborate on thaat question, but it is the purest form of the question so i shall leave it as it as.

that's the only thing that seems bad about atheism, there is no reason for people to not go ape shit and torture people. but then again, if religion is the only thing keeping people from doing that, then religion is restricing them for being themselves in the first place.

so very confusing, and it is so late.

I'm an agnostic but I'll answer anyway. I don't live morally because I am afraid of god's punishment. I would be unhappy being an asshole.

Because I know from personal experience that some things are unpleasant and people would like it if you would not do them. Happiness is a self-evident "good".

quote:Originally posted by Twisted_Ferret:

Because I know from personal experience that some things are unpleasant and people would like it if you would not do them. Happiness is a self-evident "good".

God doesn't ask you to be good for God's benefit but for your own benefit and the benefit of society. In other words, be good for yourself, not for any other reason than it being more beneficial and positive than hurting yourself or others. Then to top it off if you believe in all that paradise and God stuff you get presents for being good and retribution for being naughty.

quote:Originally posted by vehicular mansLAUGHTER:

if religion is the only thing keeping people from doing that, then religion is restricing them for being themselves in the first place.



Wondering

do you see this as a good or bad thing, and please explain your answer (doesn't have to be a long explanation, just like two or three paragraphs, I mean, sentences).

I think you can be moral without being religious - I’m an atheist and I follow a system of morals - because morals aren’t meant to help others, they’re meant to help you really. You’re nice to a person not out of the goodness of your heart, but because they’ll do favours in return or the general good buzz you get from feeling like a good person for helping another; it’s kind of like you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours.

All morals and values of good and evil are subjective. I don't believe there are any objective morals.

[This message has been edited by Overman (edited 07-23-2006).]

Doing things that you believe to be out of love will bring more of what you consider to be love into your life.

Doing things that you believe are bad will bring more of what you consider to be bad into your life.

quote:Originally posted by vehicular mansLAUGHTER:

to all you atheists, why do you have morals?

i could elaborate on thaat question, but it is the purest form of the question so i shall leave it as it as.

that's the only thing that seems bad about atheism, there is no reason for people to not go ape shit and torture people. but then again, if religion is the only thing keeping people from doing that, then religion is restricing them for being themselves in the first place.

so very confusing, and it is so late.

Ethics are important in general for our own survival and because to attain a certain goal such as happiness. Thats why we have standards. What stops most atheists from "ape shit and tortuing people" is reason and mental well-being. Why would people with mental health be sadistic enough to do that? Ironically Christianity is famous for that The Inquisition, the Jonestown Massacre. Religion by saying "Do this" and to say "Why" is asking for hell actually is more horrendous than atheism's stance.



[This message has been edited by hespeaks (edited 07-23-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Merlinman2005:

Wondering

do you see this as a good or bad thing, and please explain your answer (doesn't have to be a long explanation, just like two or three paragraphs, I mean, sentences).

i would say it is bad. people should be who they are meant to be. and i had a typo in my first post, it should have read "form being themselves" instead of "for being themselves."

quote:Originally posted by hespeaks:

Ironically Christianity is famous for that The Inquisition, the Jonestown Massacre.That is the fault of the people using religion as an excuse, for which they will be judged even more harshly.

Because sadistic people are disgusting and I don't want to be assocated with them.

On the other hand, you seem to be arguing that fear of punishment is what gives christians morals, so what happens when a bigger fear, like change, takes over? You get the inquisision and whatnot.

The big difference is that I would only torture sombody who had done something really bad, because his existance now offended me. A christian could act out of fear, steriotype, and end up comitting genocide to try and wipe out an idea.

quote:Originally posted by vehicular mansLAUGHTER:

to all you atheists, why do you have morals?



Let me flip the question with an even better question:

Are you saying that the only reason you are moral is because you are shit scared of a God and are only trying to save your own ass from eternal damnation?

And, you actually have to ask why anyone would be good for any reason other then fear?

quote:Originally posted by vehicular mansLAUGHTER:

i would say it is bad. people should be who they are meant to be. and i had a typo in my first post, it should have read "form being themselves" instead of "for being themselves."

What they are "meant to be"?

Themselves. Instinct and natural programming.

If it were meant to be, it would be.

Everyone has morality.

Religion chooses to group "common sense" morals with customs of the time, and many other practices to create "divine morality".

That doesn't actually make it any different from the morals of an atheist.

Helping/not hindering your species and those around you comes from common sense, from the animal instinct that those around you have the power to do unto you what you do onto them. There is also a psychological "love" for those who are part of the tribe, people deep seated in your memories and in helping your development.

That is why most people (atheists or otherwise) don't barbeque small children, or go on random killing sprees when we are upset.

We fear ourselves and others, and thus morality exists.

quote:Originally posted by vehicular mansLAUGHTER:

to all you atheists, why do you have morals?

i could elaborate on thaat question, but it is the purest form of the question so i shall leave it as it as.

that's the only thing that seems bad about atheism, there is no reason for people to not go ape shit and torture people. but then again, if religion is the only thing keeping people from doing that, then religion is restricing them for being themselves in the first place.

so very confusing, and it is so late.

I don't wan't to explain this too much, but the only way morals are worth anything, is if an atheist can hold them. If the only way you can have morals is by having some ultimate judicator making them the law, then morals are worthless. Anyone should be able to understand this.

quote:Originally posted by chubbyman25:

Originally posted by hespeaks:

Ironically Christianity is famous for that The Inquisition, the Jonestown Massacre.That is the fault of the people using religion as an excuse, for which they will be judged even more harshly.



However they were taught and inculcated the punitive idea of God and religion and therefore they really believed that they were doing God's will. Sure those on top (such as the Spanish's monarchy's decision to create Spanish Inqusition) used religion as a source of power, but im talking about the individuals themselves who were convinced of what they were doing (torture), so condemning Christian morality.

quote:Originally posted by IanBoyd3:

Let me flip the question with an even better question:

Are you saying that the only reason you are moral is because you are shit scared of a God and are only trying to save your own ass from eternal damnation?

And, you actually have to ask why anyone would be good for any reason other then fear?



QFT

Morality has nothing to do with religion and the existence of a god. morals have to do with what YOU feel is right. i dont think i could live with myself if i went on a killing spree taking peoples lives for no damn reason.

The way I see it the morals of an atheist are the most pure of morals. They're YOUR morals. YOU decide what is right and what is wrong, not another person and their interpretation of morality. The way you make it sound, the only thing stopping religious people going on genocidal rampages is Fear o' God. Personally, as an atheist, I see it as taking the burden of responsibility onto your own shoulders, rather than being lazy and blaming it on what God told you to do or not do.