I guess like most people of a Judeo-christian-Neo Mithrian background i tend to do what the New Testament suggests about giving alms and do it in private.

However when it's a beggar on the street keeping it secret is a bit difficult so i just usually hand them some money and walk on before i can get all the cap doffing 'bless ye kind sir' stuff (well they have to do that for the tourists!)

Anyway on the way back from the supermarket today there was a beggar on the street, with a sign saying 'Hungry and Homeless, please help'.So i did ...hell i spend $50 a day at the supermarket i can afford to buy some poor sod some sunday lunch.

(BTW No i'm not looking for comments about what a nice man i am..cos i am truly not.)

Then i noticed that no one else had given him any money and people were looking at him like he was a leper (he was clean and decently dressed). He wasn't 'accosting' anyone, just sitting there with his sign, in no ones way.

I used to live on the streets and i know what it's like to be hungry, to be so cold at night that you want to die.But back when i was living rough a majority of the population seemed happy to give a few pence.

Now that seems sadly to have changed.

Yet (and this the point of my rant here!)

The majority of the world's population still subscribes, at least in name, to one of the world's major faiths.

And ,as far as i am aware, all the major religions command the giving of alms. Even the more esoteric faiths do, infact in real wiccan (not the palstic american variety) the 'traveller' is an almost 'holy' figure.

So how do the forum members regard the giving of alms and their own faiths?



[This message has been edited by jackketch (edited 08-06-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

And ,as far as i am aware, all the major religions command the giving of alms.

They command it?

If so that's way gay.

Islam says alot about Charity and alms giving.

This sort of hypocrisy is exactly why I have so many problems with these "moral" religions.

The problem is that nowadays everyone is scared of getting ripped off by everyone else. Most people don't know if the guy sat there is homeless or just some student wondering if he can make a few dollars.

Personally, I always buy a Big Issue as I think it's an absolutely fantastic organisation. I've never actually read the magazine, but it's a great idea.

I've also been known to hand over sandwiches and chocolate bars I've had with me on the basis that any homeless person will be generally thankful, and it can't really aid an unjust cause.

I usually give spare change to a homeless man, although sometimes I give them a cigarette instead. I remember offering a sandwhich to a hobo who asked me for money for food, which he turned down, so clearly the money wasn't meant for food. Then again it pisses me off when people take the high and mighty "he'll waste it" approach to giving a homeless person money. So what? Do you put every penny you have into savings and investments? Let him waste it on booze because I do exactly the same thing.

quote:Originally posted by Rawk:

So what? Do you put every penny you have into savings and investments? Let him waste it on booze because I do exactly the same thing.

My feelings exactly. What they choose to do with the money is their decision. It's the giving that is important. Anyone who has lived on the street will know that it's almost impossible to survive the deprevation without alcohol/drugs.

And the phrase' He'll only waste it on alcohol' makes me laugh...like what was i going to do with that money...oops

*thinks about how many ££££££ i have spent on sound financial investments like alcohol, drugs and gambling over the years*

Geez, it sounds like you're terrified of God's retribution.

You only do good deeds out of fear. http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)

quote:Originally posted by theBishop:

Geez, it sounds like you're terrified of God's retribution.

You only do good deeds out of fear. http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)



HUH? Were you talking to me??! Cos i can't see anything in my posts which would indicate a fear of divine retribution!

Personally i have a slightly pre-nicean/judiac view of God and view him more as a 'curse' or a massive pain in the butt.

I've never been homeless in the sence i've been on the street, but I've been homeless in the sence that I had to live in one room above a shitty pub with 2 other people for 4 months while trying to get a home.

For that reason alone I understand how people end up on the street, because it's so hard finding help in those situations and how the concils and governments turn their backs on you.

After experiencing those few months, I would gladdly give to someone on the street, not out of fear for my "soul" but out of respect for my fellow man, in a situation I was once in myself.

One reason people give to charities, is to "help" them by saving them from heathenism.

Though many religions do advocate alms giving, these days its just better to let people suffer. As bas as that sounds, in the long run alot more good will come of your neglect. trust me on this, back in the day I used to be a very strong christian (not any more of course). during that period I ran the church's food for homeless program. I can't begin to even tell you how much more harm we actually did than help them.

Thankfully I live in a town that doesnt have many bums.

I did get hustled a few days ago while pumping gas. A black fellow came up and asked for some money saying something about his leg. His leg was fairly disfigured and he walked with a bad limp. If he didnt look and sound like he was on crack and I had some spare change, I would have probably given him something.

I also have to agree with you that most people waste their money anyway. I dont, however, subscribe to that ideology because I dont try to waste my money.

quote:Originally posted by bluntman457:

I can't begin to even tell you how much more harm we actually did than help them.

Please try, as this is something that i have also had some thoughts on, although not in regard of the homeless/beggars (more in regard to the 3rd world).

[This message has been edited by jackketch (edited 08-06-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

Thankfully I live in a town that doesnt have many bums.

I did get hustled a few days ago while pumping gas. A black fellow came up and asked for some money saying something about his leg. His leg was fairly disfigured and he walked with a bad limp. If he didnt look and sound like he was on crack and I had some spare change, I would have probably given him something.

I also have to agree with you that most people waste their money anyway. I dont, however, subscribe to that ideology because I dont try to waste my money.



i dont think i've ever agreed with you

I dont' have any bums around here, but if I see one I do give him/her some money. All of my Muslim friend donate to Muslim charities, because you know, we have brothers and sisters being killed and raped all over the world.

quote:Originally posted by Loc Dogg:

we have brothers and sisters being killed and raped all over the world.

Strange...on the whole it seems to me to be the so-called moslems doing most of the killing ...

I'll spare you the long list of places where this is so.

Can you say 'janaweed'???!

*goes back to watching the multi media images of 'moslem' rockets falling on Israel*

I'll give homeless people my spare change anyday, if I have any. It's usually reserved for buskers though.

I also have to point out that good ol' hobos can be intimidating. I mean, we've all had the "I DON'T WANT YOUR FUCKING SANDWICH!" experience.

However! If I were of a religious persuasion, I would feel that I should give to beggars. I actually think far too little is done to help the homeless in the UK (I can't speak for anywhere else). All the money raised for Live 8 or whatever Bob Geldof's next big thing is, when there are still thousands of people sleeping rough, in real need, in this country.

I suppose it's just easier to feel good about yourself by giving money to various African orphans when popstars tell you to than to actually face a real problem in your own country. (And starving orphans have way more sympathy value than smelly tramps.)

Jx

I used to hang out with this group of homeless guys back when my husband and I first moved to California. I was 17 years old and they happened to be the first people I met...And I'll tell you how. I had taken a bus to downtown to hang out and shop for a while. Then it came time to leave and I discovered I'd left my purse in one of the stores! I went back for it, but the purse was GONE along with all of my money. So there I was stranded in a strange town with no way to get home.

I was sitting on the sidewalk trying to figure out what to do when this guy came over and sat down with his two dogs. He and I talked for a while and then these 3 other guys sat down too. They were all homeless and had signs asking for change, but they weren't aggressive about it or anything.

After a few hours they pooled their change and gave me $1.50 for the bus so I could get home. HOMELESS people did this for me. I was so grateful that I used to come see them 3 or 4 times per week and I always baked them something, even though I was very poor myself at the time. It has always stuck with me, how they helped me, even though they had almost nothing to give.

I always try to give something to those less fortunate, because you never know when you yourself will need help.

There is a kindness and bonding of humans that you may never experience until you hang out with people who have next to nothing...but still have everything to give http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Lots of beggars can be nice guys, that said there are a lot of nuts sketchy ones i try to avoid, but i'd willingly give them both my money.

When the change in your pocket means more to you than the existence of another human being...you know you have problems.

I can understand giving to a beggar because he is actually hungry, but a good majority of beggars are alcoholics and drug addicts, so feeding their addiction would mean you are just a fucking sucker.Regardless of what a book tells you to do ugggghn....let us not forget logic.....please.

quote:Originally posted by Fallen_3angel3:

I can understand giving to a beggar because he is actually hungry, but a good majority of beggars are alcoholics and drug addicts, so feeding their addiction would mean you are just a fucking sucker.Regardless of what a book tells you to do ugggghn....let us not forget logic.....please.

So, what. Because said beggar is addicted to alcohol they don't deserve a small amount of your spare change.

"Oh, but if I give him money he'll only spend it on booze/heroin/crack". How do you know?

Millions of people are addicted to alcohol or various drugs, and have steady jobs. Do they not deserve their wages because "they'll only spend it on beer/coke/weed"?

If you're not going to give money to beggars, that's a perfectly valid personal choice, but don't try to justify it to yourself with bad excuses.

Jx

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

Strange...on the whole it seems to me to be the so-called moslems doing most of the killing ...

I'll spare you the long list of places where this is so.

Can you say 'janaweed'???!

*goes back to watching the multi media images of 'moslem' rockets falling on Israel*

And I'll spare you a long list of places where Muslim civilians have been killed either for being Muslim or as collateral damage.

Can you say 'Bosnia in the 90s'?

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

I guess like most people of a Judeo-christian-Neo Mithrian background i tend to do what the New Testament suggests about giving alms and do it in private.



The giving of alms and keeping it private is to prevent oneself from getting 'puffed up' by advertizing what good they do to others. It has nothing to do with accepting thanks from those who receive what is given. After all, isn't it written that no one is 'truly good'. It is in the same lines of praying in public for all to see...to see what a 'good man/woman' you are.

I don't think it's a commandment, just a suggestion of doing what is good. What good one does must be given freely without expectation of any type of reciprocity of any sort. Not from people, not from God.

That is my understanding of it. It is also ill-found in my opinion to judge those who appear not to give. One does not know what that person gives in private, now do they?

A poor woman giving 2 pieces of gold ( all her money ) is worth more than 2,000 gold from a merchant ( a small amount of his money ). It's the quality that matters, not the quantity.

quote:Originally posted by Loc Dogg:

I dont' have any bums around here, but if I see one I do give him/her some money. All of my Muslim friend donate to Muslim charities, because you know, we have brothers and sisters being killed and raped all over the world.

Why did I giggle...

When did i start start spelling 'muslim' as 'moslem'?...*slaps self*...

I blame too much CNN.

BTW Loc, i once worked with some former muslim fighters from bosnia/former yugoslavia. The genocide that was committed against the balkan muslims was a stain on humanity and the politicians of europe who allowed it to happen should be before the Hague tribunal.

However i did gather from the stories told by the aforementoined co-workers that they too had readily indulged in genocide/rape and acts of barbarity...



[This message has been edited by jackketch (edited 08-11-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

When did i start start spelling 'muslim' as 'moslem'?...*slaps self*...

I blame too much CNN.

BTW Loc, i once worked with some former muslim fighters from bosnia/former yugoslavia. The genocide that was committed against the balkan mulims was a stain on humanity and the politicians of europe who allowed it to happen should be before the Hague tribunal.

However i did gather from the stories told by the aforementoined co-workers that they too had readily indulged in genocide/rape and acts of barbarity...



I don't know why they call themselves Muslim or what it benefits them to call themself that: What does it afford them?

i rape both Muslims and Beggers. but out of the two, for money, beggers pay off the most. but Jackketch is a cock sucker



PEACE

I don't give money to the beggars. I donate old clothes and other stuff I have and don't use anymore to organizations that distribute them to poor people.

My country isn't called the "land of opportunity" for nothing. Jobs aren't hard to find. Good jobs? Yes. But basic, run-of-the-mill, shitty jobs? They're all over the place. There's no excuse to be on the street begging for pocket change.

I support those that try. Those that are working 2 minimum wage jobs, living in a shitty apartment, walking to work...they have ambition. They are making a valid attempt at contributing to society. And they deserve help.

Bums. Homeless people spend their time standing on the side of the road holding a cardboard sign and mooching of off other peoples' generosity. People that don't even bother to try deserve nothing. And if they are incapable of trying (because they're disabled), there are organizations out there that will take them in. Noone has to live on the street. Through their own inaction, they choose that life.

I rarely encounter beggars to be honest. Where I live, we have one career beggar in the town, who I don't give money too, simply because they seem to have a fair bit of money, and are exploitive. There are beggars when I go to the free state, but it's a socialist republic where the poor have plenty of opportunity not to be poor, and recieve a large amount of welfare. In Belfast I buy the big issue though, I see your point and agree with you, even if this was a bit of an unrelated ramble.