Think about it.

Arabian armies had successfully assimilated other semitic groups in parts of the Middle East and North Africa. The arabs in Syria and Lebanon or Egypt are not the same arabs from Saudi Arabia.

Arabs have spread their language to everyone they conquered. Like how Persian vocabulary is like 50% arabic as well as Punjabi and all those Afghan/Paki languages too. These still use the Arabic alphabet. There also used to be alot more languages written in the Arabic alphabet.

Islam teaches that Arabic is the holy language, and the Koran is not supposed to be translated into other languages.

The Koran teaches that Islam should be spread, so Arabs and their lackeys have converted nearly the whole central part of Eurasia to Islam as well as the Pacific. Which leads me to my next point...

Many muslims in non-Arab countries have sympathy for the Palestinians, despite not being Arabs themselves.

Islam allows polygamy especially for the rich and noble. As far as I know this is practiced mainly in Saudi Arabia/Arabian peninsula and Afghanistan. So rich Saudi Buisnessmen have like 30 kids.

All these secure a future for the Arabian race and the success over their semitic rivals, the Jews via assimilation, massive breeding, and having lots of friends.

quote:Originally posted by Furious George:

Think about it.

Islam teaches that Arabic is the holy language, and the Koran is not supposed to be translated into other languages.

The Koran teaches that Islam should be spread, so Arabs and their lackeys have converted nearly the whole central part of Eurasia to Islam as well as the Pacific. Which leads me to my next point...

Many muslims in non-Arab countries have sympathy for the Palestinians, despite not being Arabs themselves.

Islam allows polygamy especially for the rich and noble. As far as I know this is practiced mainly in Saudi Arabia/Arabian peninsula and Afghanistan. So rich Saudi Buisnessmen have like 30 kids.

All these secure a future for the Arabian race and the success over their semitic rivals, the Jews via assimilation, massive breeding, and having lots of friends.

Alright to clearify a few points:

I know you didn't claim the Qur'an says that Islam is a Holy Language but rather that Islam teaches that it is, perhaps some Muslims believe this but the Qur'an, the book of Islam does not teach that Arabic is Holy.

012.001

Alif. Lam. Ra. These are verse of the Scripture that maketh plain.

Lo! We have revealed it, a Lecture in Arabic, that ye may understand.

013.037

Thus have We revealed it, a decisive utterance in Arabic; and if thou shouldst follow their desires after that which hath come unto thee of knowledge, then truly wouldst thou have from Allah no protecting friend nor defender.

016.101

And when We put a revelation in place of (another) revelation, - and Allah knoweth best what He revealeth - they say: Lo! thou art but inventing. Most of them know not.

016.102

Say, the Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims.

016.103

And We know well that they say: Only a man teacheth him. The speech of him at whom they falsely hint is foreign, and this is clear Arabic speech.

020.113

Thus we have revealed it as a Lecture in Arabic, and have displayed therein certain threats, that peradventure they may keep from evil or that it may cause them to take heed.

026.192

Verily this is a Revelation from the Lord of the Worlds:

026.193

Which the True Spirit hath brought down

026.194

Upon your heart that you may be of the warners

026.195

In plain Arabic language.

026.196

Is it not a token for them that the doctors of the Children of Israel know it?

026.198

And if We had revealed it unto one of any other nation than the Arabs,

026.199

And had he recited it to them, they would not have believed in it.

026.200

Thus have We caused it to enter into the hearts of the guilty.

026.201

They will not believe in it until they see the painful punishment.

039.027

And verily We have coined for mankind in this Qur'an all kinds of similitudes, that haply they may reflect;

039.028

a Lecture in Arabic, without any crookedness: in order that they may guard against Evil.

041.001

Ha. Mim.

041.002

A revelation from the Beneficent, the Merciful

041.003

A Scripture whereof the verses are expounded, a Lecture in Arabic for people who have knowledge,

041.004

Good tidings and a warning. But most of them turn away so that they hear not.

041.041

Surely those who disbelieve in the reminder when it comes to them, and most surely it is a Mighty Book:

041.042

No falsehood can approach it from before or behind it: It is sent down by One Full of Wisdom, Worthy of all Praise.

041.043

Nothing is said to thee that was not said to the messengers before thee: that thy lord has at his Command forgiveness as well as a most Grievous Penalty.

041.044

Had We sent this as a Qur'an in other than Arabic, they would have said: "Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! Not in Arabic and a Messenger an Arab?" Say: "It is a Guide and a Healing to those who believe; and for those who believe not, there is a deafness in their ears, and it is blindness in their (eyes): They are (as it were) being called from a place far distant!"

042.007

And thus We have inspired in thee a Lecture in Arabic, that thou mayst warn the mother-town and those around it, and mayst warn of a day of assembling whereof there is no doubt. A host will be in the Garden, and a host of them in the Flame.

043.001

By the Scripture which maketh plain,

043.003

Lo! We have appointed it a Lecture, in Arabic that haply ye may understand.

043.004

And Lo! in the Source of Decrees, which We possess, it is indeed sublime, decisive.

046.012

When before it there was the Scripture of Moses, an example and a mercy; and this is a confirming Scripture in the Arabic language, that it may warn those who do wrong and bring good tidings for the righteous.

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The Qur'an also never teaches that the Qur'an should not be translated, and nor does Islam thus it has been translated in many languages. What is usually held is that the Arabic version is the most accurate as it is the original language the text was revealed in and so it should be maintained and not lost or changed.

Many Muslims sympathize with Palestinians because Palestinians call themselves Muslims.

Polygamy is not exactly allowed by the Qur'an but under conditions which need to be met.

004.001

people! be careful of your duty to your Lord, Who created you from a single being and created its mate of the same and spread from these two, a multitude of men and women; and be careful of your duty to Allah, by Whom you claim of one another, and to the ties of relationship; surely Allah ever watches over you.

004.002

To orphans restore their property, nor substitute worthless things for valuable ones; and devour not their substance by mixing it with your own. For this is indeed a great sin.

004.003

If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly, then only one, or that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.

004.004

And give the women their dower as a free gift; but if they, of their own good pleasure, remit any part of it to you, then ye are welcome to absorb it.

004.005

To those weak of understanding Make not over your property, which Allah hath made a means of support for you, but feed and clothe them therewith, and speak to them words of kindness and justice.

004.006

Make trial of orphans until they reach the age of marriage; if then ye find sound judgment in them, release their property to them; but consume it not wastefully, nor in haste against their growing up. If the guardian is well-off, Let him claim no remuneration, but if he is poor, let him have for himself what is just and reasonable. When ye release their property to them, take witnesses in their presence: But all-sufficient is Allah in taking account.

__________________________________________

The above is a reference in which many wealthy Arabs hope to use in hopes to marry multiple women but the above is a revelation dealing with Orphans and Marrying Orphans to women if one can not deal justly with them in returning their property to them. The Qur'an clearifies that Polygamy is not allowed in the following:

024.032

Marry those among you who are single, or the virtuous ones among yourselves, male or female: if they are in poverty, Allah will give them means out of His grace: for Allah encompasseth all, and he knoweth all things.

_________________________________________

A man or a woman can only marry another man or a woman who is single.

__________________________________________

The exemption to this rule was the Prophet who was, according to the Qur'an, given an opportunity to marry more than one wife within a short period of time, mainly for political reasons and those who came to him as refugees. If he performed sexual intercourse with them or not is unknown.

Also as a final note there is no such thing as a "Race" within the "Human Race" Arabians may be considered a nationality or a cultural ethnicity which encompasses the region, but they are not a race unto themselves, just humans.

The population of people who consider themselves Arabs is dwarfed by the population of India and China.

Islam and the Qur'an does not teach to spread the religion by the sword or to force conversion on anyone but rather that those who will believe will believe and those who will disbelieve will disbelieve. The Qur'an does permit at least warning people and telling them about the religion of Islam (Submission to God) and how to be a Muslim (One who has surrendered to God).

Well, that was a quite thorough reply.

quote:Originally posted by Zay:

Well, that was a quite thorough reply.

Thank You! I'm glad you took the time to read it! Does anyone else have any comments or anything they would like to add to this discussion?

I think that the question should instead be "Are most muslims pan-Arabists?"

The answer to that, I would say, is yes. Over the past few years where I have really gotten into Islamic studies and met/talked with various muslims, an overwhelming majority of them have told me that it is a necessity to learn to read Arabic and pretty much become an Arab oneself to be a proper Muslim.

So what does this really mean about Islam? Nothing. Muslims are just people. Imperfect people, and like everyone else, they will try to twist things to fit their own agendas. There are many pan-Arabists throughout the Middle East who have now come to America and other Western nations who disguise their politics behind the veil of Islam.

I mean no offense to Muslims who are not like this, because I do know a great deal of them who are the exact opposite. Like Abrahim stated, the Quran makes no mention of Arabic language/culture being the "only way."

It's a shame that people pervert religion, but it always happens.

So to sum it all up: Is Islam pan-Arabism? No. Are many muslims (wrongly) pan-Arabists? Yes.

http://www.apostatesofislam.com

http://www.faithfreedom.org

http://www.apostatesofislam.com/forum/index.php

http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/index.php

http://www.faithfreedom.org/holiday/phpBB2/index.php

http://www.activistchat.com/phpBB2/index.php

http://www.masada2000.org/islam.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2829059.stm

http://www.fomi.nu/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1627

http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/

http://www.atcoalition.net/

http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/gallery/

http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/gallery/pages/6-Mein%20Kampf_jpg_jpg_jpg.htm

http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/moslem.htm

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

http://atheism.about.com/cs/islamandviolence/

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/southeast/08/17/martyr.culture/index.html

http://muslim-quotes.netfirms.com/jihad.html

http://www.domini.org/openbook/home.htm

http://www.persecution.org

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=9583

http://www.danielpipes.org/

http://www.angelfire.com/hi5/kafirdomunity/action.htm

http://www.geocities.com/khola_mon/BTaliban/Bangla_Taliban_Photos.html

http://www.bwoi.cjb.net

http://www.chechentruth.cjb.net/

http://www.anti-cair-net.org/

http://www.arabsforisrael.com/pages/1/index.htm

http://www.rotter.net/israel/

http://www.geocities.com/khola_mon/Islam.html

http://www.geocities.com/milkmandan2003/TalibanOnline1.html

http://www.truthtree.com/Debating/posts/755.html

http://www.isralert.com/archives/2005/03/deceit_thy_name.php

http://www.factsandlogic.org

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/zakirnaik/zakicaptured.gif

http://www.prophetofdoom.net/

http://www.venusproject.com/prophet_of_doom/toc.html

http://www.venusproject.com/prophet_of_doom/quotes1.html#terrorism

http://www.pmw.org.il/

quote:Originally posted by malaria:

I think that the question should instead be "Are most muslims pan-Arabists?"

The answer to that, I would say, is yes. Over the past few years where I have really gotten into Islamic studies and met/talked with various muslims, an overwhelming majority of them have told me that it is a necessity to learn to read Arabic and pretty much become an Arab oneself to be a proper Muslim.

So what does this really mean about Islam? Nothing. Muslims are just people. Imperfect people, and like everyone else, they will try to twist things to fit their own agendas. There are many pan-Arabists throughout the Middle East who have now come to America and other Western nations who disguise their politics behind the veil of Islam.

I mean no offense to Muslims who are not like this, because I do know a great deal of them who are the exact opposite. Like Abrahim stated, the Quran makes no mention of Arabic language/culture being the "only way."

It's a shame that people pervert religion, but it always happens.

So to sum it all up: Is Islam pan-Arabism? No. Are many muslims (wrongly) pan-Arabists? Yes.

I totally agree! Thank You for the wonderful post, it was excellent.

Does anyone else have any comments or questions?

quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:



Does anyone else have any comments or questions?



Yes.

1. I can't understand all that holy writing crap. Same thing with the Bible. It seems like the context gets lost in translation or something. Maybe that's why arabic is required. It'd be great if they could rephrase the whole book.

2. The part about polygamy doesn't make sense. It's saying that it's ok to marry multiple wives if they're poor, but I'm pretty sure most women in Saudi Arabia who are part of a polygamous relationship were not born poor. So I guess it's just blaphemous.

3. Why did you bring up India and China? China has no religion and Hinduism isn't real keen on converts.

5. Of course there is no "Arabian Race", but they pretty much made themselves one through assimilation, slavery, war brides, etc...

4. Islam was spread by sword-Refute that.

5. I forgot to mention that if I'm not mistaken, Islam encourages converts to take an arab name. Like some black guy's birth name is John Jackson, but when he converted he had it changed to Mohammed Ahmed.

Originally posted by Furious George:

Yes.

1. I can't understand all that holy writing crap. Same thing with the Bible. It seems like the context gets lost in translation or something. Maybe that's why arabic is required. It'd be great if they could rephrase the whole book.

(I was just trying to clearify that the Qur'an does not view the language it is being revealed in as Holy.)

2. The part about polygamy doesn't make sense. It's saying that it's ok to marry multiple wives if they're poor, but I'm pretty sure most women in Saudi Arabia who are part of a polygamous relationship were not born poor. So I guess it's just blaphemous.

(It seems to me that it is saying if you can't pay an orphan back their property you can get them married and pay those women their dowry so that when he is of age he has that in recompense. Otherwise for regular conditions one is to marry someone who is SINGLE and virtuous as it says in the Qur'an. So basically 4 wives aren't allowed, only 1.

3. Why did you bring up India and China? China has no religion and Hinduism isn't real keen on converts.

(I brought them up only in relation to population and birth rate.)

5. Of course there is no "Arabian Race", but they pretty much made themselves one through assimilation, slavery, war brides, etc...

4. Islam was spread by sword-Refute that.

(Sure, Indonesia has the largest population of Muslims, no Arab army conquered Indonesia...Islam was primarilly spread by missionary types who went and talked to the people and governments of nations. Muslim armies conquered Spain and Turkey and ruled for long periods of time but did not force religion on any of the members within the societies it conquered, also Muslim's conquered India and did not force the religion on the population, Islam has in most cases been spread by word of mouth and the Qur'an, Muslims spread Islam, as they still do today. Sometimes armies belonging to nations that were Muslim did conquer nations and some of these after some time created a taxation system in which Muslims had benefits, thus many converted to Islam to avoid taxation. Armies of nations that were Muslim did conquer other nations and fight battles in history but Islam did not exactly spread in this fashion, nor was it directly forced on the people in a "convert or die" context. Muslim rule was generally recorded as peaceful and prosperous, with huge leaps in science and discovery and non muslims able to work freely and without many complaints. Whenever nations that claim to be Muslim have been put under another force then there is usually alot of disruption and chaos, but not the other way around, as history has shown in most cases.)

5. I forgot to mention that if I'm not mistaken, Islam encourages converts to take an arab name. Like some black guy's birth name is John Jackson, but when he converted he had it changed to Mohammed Ahmed.

(The Qur'an never encourages one to change their names but many people who convert take on an Arab name in hopes to end their identity as a disbeliever and start a new life as a Muslim. This is not a requirement in Islam and is not mentioned in the Qur'an.)

(Since Early Times and Even Today Islam is one of the fastest spreading religions in the world, not through military conquest, but word of mouth, and Muslims teaching Non Muslims as well as people investigating the religion which saturates the Media the most, Islam! Currently Islam is making its way into Latin America, More of Africa, and portions of Asia as well as many other countries. New Mosques are popping up all the time for communities of Muslims. Islam was not spread by the sword so much as by the Qur'an and word of mouth, now the internet and news.)