Now we talk about God alot on this forum, the question of whether he exists or not, the question of whether he can lift rocks or microwave things.... But do we ever question whether or not people should place their faith in him?

Some points that I have taken from a site, that I think are valid.

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>

<LI>Satan, like Prometheus, gave knowledge to humanity by giving Eve the fruit from the forbidden tree. Because of Satan, humanity gained knowledge of good and evil, according to Genesis. Since we couldn't have possessed knowledge of good and evil before eating the fruit, Adam and Eve couldn't have known that eating the fruit was evil, so it seems a little harsh to punish them as severely as God did. Satan gave humans true capacity for moral judgment, unlike God, who simply expected everyone to mindlessly obey his orders.

<LI>There is no biblical record of Satan engaging in the murder of torture of any human being, unlike God, who is guilty (and proudly guilty) of commiting genocide.

<LI>There is no biblical record of Satan ever ordering someone to kill someone else, unlike God, who has repeatedly demanded the deaths of those who commit even the smallest of offenses.

<LI>Satan will not be holding a massively dramatic ceremony full of blood and death for the return of his son to Earth. God apparently will.

</UL>

Now everyone on this forum knows that God is responsible for a few thousand deaths here and there, so I don't need to go into that. But in this day and age killing someone is a crime so why should God be aloud to kill people? Being the creator of the universe is no excuse for having a gory appetite. The president wouldn't be able to walk out into the street and whack someone now would he? regardless of whether he was the big cheese of the country or not.

So to sum up, is God really the good guy? should God really be worthy of the people's faith? Is religion just a big joke?

Well… god decides, I reckon subjectively and not objectively, what is good and therefore can state it’s ok when he does. Hypocritical, yes, but what are you going to do? You either burn in hell or spend eternity as god’s slave in heaven, both deals suck.

quote:Originally posted by Raw_Power:

Well… god decides, I reckon subjectively and not objectively, what is good and therefore can state it’s ok when he does. Hypocritical, yes, but what are you going to do? You either burn in hell or spend eternity as god’s slave in heaven, both deals suck.

That does suck, i wounder if you could off yourself in the afterlife...?

You mean destroy your soul and become nothing? The way I understand it is that it is not you going to heaven, but your soul which is seperate from you, something above you and you spend your entire life doing the lord's work not for your whole self, but for your soul; a spook. It's really silly.

Wow, Source, you have completely blown my mind. Honestly. Would you be able to give me a link to this the site you got this from?

-Accent.

well that was interesting.

quote:Originally posted by Accent:

Wow, Source, you have completely blown my mind. Honestly. Would you be able to give me a link to this the site you got this from?

-Accent.

Here you go. http://tinyurl.com/jonuj

Ever stop to consider that the only people spouting off about "burning in hell" are god and his cohorts?

That, and most of what we think about when hell and the devil are mentioned is noncanonical anyway. Ever wonder what god doesn't want you to know about?

Is the devil/the Satan really the bad guy?

I strongly suggest you look into the New Gospel--according to that:

God does not judge or punish.

We are All One.

Life is Eternal.

There are no victims, no villains.

There are no accidents, no coincidences.

We are responsible for creating our own reality.

There is no heaven or hell, besides what we create through our own actions.

There is a lot more to it, this just scratches the surface. You will note that it varies quite a bit from the Christian mythos.

quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:

I strongly suggest you look into the New Gospel--according to that:

God does not judge or punish.

We are All One.

Life is Eternal.

There are no victims, no villains.

There are no accidents, no coincidences.

We are responsible for creating our own reality.

There is no heaven or hell, besides what we create through our own actions.

There is a lot more to it, this just scratches the surface. You will note that it varies quite a bit from the Christian mythos.

I guess this is your own philosophy since the New Testament is invariably different from what you just described.

quote:Originally posted by Source:

That does suck, i wounder if you could off yourself in the afterlife...?

Wouldn't you just find yourself there again? Like how Satan's boyfriend in South Park just kept returning to Hell. I mean, where was he going to go? Detroit?

quote:Originally posted by Raw_Power:

Well… god decides, I reckon subjectively and not objectively, what is good and therefore can state it’s ok when he does. Hypocritical, yes, but what are you going to do? You either burn in hell or spend eternity as god’s slave in heaven, both deals suck.

What sucks more? Having your skin burned off over and over and over experiencing tremendous pain constantly or praying to God and eating lots of fruit and good food and relaxing on huge couches and living in beautiful garden estates?

Both deals suck? Not according to God!

quote:Originally posted by Source:

The president wouldn't be able to walk out into the street and whack someone now would he? regardless of whether he was the big cheese of the country or not.



lol O RLY?

I suppose god justifies his actions as "i brought you in to this world and i can take you out of it." my dad used to say that all the time.

quote:Originally posted by Fate:

Ever stop to consider that the only people spouting off about "burning in hell" are god and his cohorts?

That, and most of what we think about when hell and the devil are mentioned is noncanonical anyway. Ever wonder what god doesn't want you to know about?

Is the devil/the Satan really the bad guy?

Does it really matter who is the good guy and who is the bad guy? It is about who has the power to throw you into hell for all eternity, and that would be God, the same who created you and every bit of your life as well as the hell built for those who follow the suggestions of Satan who according to God, Satan's intention is only to mislead you into self destruction.

quote:Originally posted by Source:



So to sum up, is God really the good guy? should God really be worthy of the people's faith? Is religion just a big joke?

is God really the good guy?

- Assuming there is a god, he is not a guy which sort of negate the entire premise of the question. Moreover, considering if god created everything he also established the laws of good and evil. Therefore, he wouldn't be a good "guy" or a bad "guy". He would simply be.

should God really be worthy of the people's faith?

- What is with all you people that think that the powers that be (forces more powerfull than you) need to earn your itsy bitsy respect? If god exists it doesn't matter if he's a complete fucktard (which, if he does, he probably is). If that were the case all that would matter is that god exists, he created everything, and therefore we have faith in him.

Is religion just a big joke?

- Religion is essentially a way of conveying world truths that cannot or could not be proven. Some of those truths have been proven wrong, some have been proven right, some can't be proven. It's not a perfect system. That's why there are so many of them. But, I wouldn't call it a joke, per se. I mean, if it is a joke it's the lamest joke ever.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

lol O RLY?



YA RLY!

quote:Originally posted by Fate:

Ever stop to consider that the only people spouting off about "burning in hell" are god and his cohorts?

That, and most of what we think about when hell and the devil are mentioned is noncanonical anyway. Ever wonder what god doesn't want you to know about?

Is the devil/the Satan really the bad guy?

It does seem like God has something to hide.

quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

What sucks more? Having your skin burned off over and over and over experiencing tremendous pain constantly or praying to God and eating lots of fruit and good food and relaxing on huge couches and living in beautiful garden estates?

Both deals suck? Not according to God!

All loving then huh?

quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

Does it really matter who is the good guy and who is the bad guy? It is about who has the power to throw you into hell for all eternity, and that would be God, the same who created you and every bit of your life as well as the hell built for those who follow the suggestions of Satan who according to God, Satan's intention is only to mislead you into self destruction.



It sounds to me like you live your life in constant fear. now is that really anyway to live? To you it might not matter who is good and who is bad, but to me it does. You only have Gods word that he as the power to throw you into hell! You only have Gods word that satan is evil, God said that satan lead us to destruction, but how I read it Satan gave us knowledge, God kept it from us.

quote:Originally posted by Source:

All loving then huh?

Originally posted by Abrahim:

Does it really matter who is the good guy and who is the bad guy? It is about who has the power to throw you into hell for all eternity, and that would be God, the same who created you and every bit of your life as well as the hell built for those who follow the suggestions of Satan who according to God, Satan's intention is only to mislead you into self destruction.



It sounds to me like you live your life in constant fear. now is that really anyway to live? To you it might not matter who is good and who is bad, but to me it does. You only have Gods word that he as the power to throw you into hell! You only have Gods word that satan is evil, God said that satan lead us to destruction, but how I read it Satan gave us knowledge, God kept it from us.



____________________________________________

All Loving? Certainly not. All Powerful? According to the supposed source, yes.

The Satan I believe in is more a negative thought form or a way to describe those negative suggestions that might come to ones head, to do something destructive to oneself or to others...

How was eating the apple destructive according to the Old Testament? Well it took Adam and Eve out of a state of innocence and grace and put them into a state of fear (at their nakedness and possibly their humanity)

In any case, even by old testament standards, it seems clear God placed that tree there as a test with quite a bit of knowledge that they would choose it, furthermore having Earth developed for the very purpose of inhabitting it with these beings.

It is a story of how Human beings since the beginning have a problem with resisting the temptation to disobey God's orders.

Now...Does it matter if God is all loving and all kind if that same God demands that you do something and has on one side a reward on the other a horrible punishment? Which would you choose? The Punishment? For the reason that God must not be all loving in the fact that a Punishment was even suggested?

To make the right choice, the only good choice, you need to have the will to avoid punishment, you may call it selfish, but its Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory vs A burning abyss of no joy. Don't like candy? BURN IN THE FIRE!

The one who should be living in constant fear, in my opinion, should be the one who is on the side that gets the punishment, those who do wrong.

You're taking a risk in most likely believing the stories have no validity, and when you die, you're most likely expecting not to return to life...but According to God, no "oops" will be great enough, when your eyes are opened and you face your judgement, when you're thrown into the fire that you denied.

Where will the good Satan be? In hell also. Why? Not for disbelief but for arrogance and pride as well as attempting to mislead many.

It isn't about who is good and who is bad, it is about where you came from and who has the power over you. Submit to the King of the Universes or pay the Penalty for all Eternity.

All Loving? All Good? Are these where your priorities lay? "God is not worthy of worship because God is not all good or all loving" ? Well in any case, according to God, God is where absolutely everything came from and where absolutely everything will return, and God is what you owe your life to, all your senses, every bit of your existence including all the possible thoughts you can possibly think, and all the possible things you can possibly do!

It would be wise, according to God, to prepare for your return to God and your judgement by offering your thankfulness, humility, and submission.

Those who stand pridefully, arrogant, disobedient and unthankful to God shall be punished by God, according to God.

If there is some other source of information you trust more than God, then so be it. You and the source which is contradictive to the revelation of God will both be thrown into the fire after judgement, according to God.

God is not dependant on you, it is you who is dependant on God, according to God.

Hopefully there will be no judgement, and we will remain dead, ceasing to exist and never to return or be recompensed for what we did in life. Though if there is judgement as is claimed by the supposed God, you're in for a nasty surprise!

You can take the safest road, a life spent seeking the truth (adapting it when you must to fit in with God) and believing in, and worshipping God, doing good works and works of charity, and all that lovely positive stuff. Then if you die you if you aren't risen, big deal, you spent a life doing good, if you are risen, congratulations, here is a grand reward for a life spent doing good.

Now on the other hand you could disbelieve God, spend a life breaking God's revelations and then die, if you aren't risen, then congratulations, you're dead, if you are risen then you'll have hell to pay.

Now the third path is that you spend a life doing good and charity but disbelieve in God. This comes to a bit of a gray area perhaps but then again you will most likely be thrown into hell for disbelieving in God and Judgement Day. Ouch, that's cruel...But God's got the Power, according to God, and so if God chooses to punish, then that's the way it's going to be.

You can whine about the cruelty and mercilessness of God, but then again, you don't believe in God, so who will help you when you're in the fire? Just as you ignored the call of God in your life time, in the afterlife, God will ignore your calls...This is what you wanted and believed in, a world without God, and now you're in a fire for all eternity, the pain incredible and ever lasting, there's no one to save you, now you wish there was a God but it is too late! You had an entire lifetime to spend doing right and finding God, worshipping God, devoting yourself to God, and you would've been blessed with a tremendous reward, a glow of bliss, but instead you chose to be covered in shame, darkened, despised, ignored, in the fire.

So those are your two choices!

I don't believe in the Old Testament anyway though lol.

[This message has been edited by Abrahim (edited 08-23-2006).]