The bible actually makes sense and doesn't contradict itself if you read it from the perspective that "god" is a demonic entity that has somehow managed to convice psychotic people that it's a good idea to worship it. Honest it does.

And I know I'm going to get flamed the shit out of by christians and what not... but my interpretation of the bible is probably more accurate than the touchey feely "god loves you" crap.

Read and discuss.

------------------------------------------

The "God of the Christian Bible" demanded a sacrafice to get rid of the sins of humanity.

That sacrafice had the name of Jesus.

Jesus was a human sacrafice.

You know... person gets his/her insides ripped out in the name of a deity so that the person doing the killing somehow gets magically empowered... human sacrafice.

If you are christian you are basically supporting human sacrafice. That sounds positively EVIL to me.

Only an evil entity would demand an evil act be carried out in it's name...

And don't try and tell me that Jesus was somehow different so it somehow makes human sacrafice a good thing... to do that you not only have to prove that Jesus actually existed but had the magical powers that defy the laws of reality.

Not only that, but right at the start of the bible the "creator" doesn't demand that people have faith... only Lucifer does.

"Eat the apple biznitches.... TRUST ME".

Demanding faith + stupid rules + demands for human sacrafice = Religion that worships a blood-god without even knowing it!

Oh, and there is a ton of other bits and pieces in that oh-so-holy book... but if you think I am going to go through 20,000+ contradictions you have got to be kidding!

I just wish xians would realise that iot wasn't jesus or god that wrote the bible, just other people with imperfect understandngs.

It doesn't matter how you look at it, if God is real, then God is evil.

I have no proof, this is just what I believe.

quote:Originally posted by ---Beany---:

I just wish xians would realise that iot wasn't jesus or god that wrote the bible, just other people with imperfect understandngs.

I wish people would just realise that Jesus wasn't the son of God and it is highly doubtful that if there is a God that it's the one depicted in the bible, which is most likely the creation of man.

I know, I know...God is just the imaginary friend of some nutcase that lived over 10,000 years ago.

But still... Lucifer is the imaginary friend that the bible tries to convince you to believe in!

And if you read the legends of Isis and Horus, they are identical to the Mary and Jesus stories in the new testament... Horus was sacraficed on a cross at easter and everything! This was a good 4,000 years before christianity popped up too...

quote:Originally posted by Raw_Power:

I wish people would just realise that Jesus wasn't the son of God and it is highly doubtful that if there is a God that it's the one depicted in the bible, which is most likely the creation of man.

Wishes don't work for none athiests :P

quote:Originally posted by Source:

It doesn't matter how you look at it, if God is real, then God is evil.



Oh I think how you look at it does matter. Perhaps you just choose not to try and look at it differently.

quote:Originally posted by ---Beany---:

Oh I think how you look at it does matter. Perhaps you just choose not to try and look at it differently.

Perhaps.

quote:The bible actually makes sense and doesn't contradict itself if you read it from the perspective that "god" is a demonic entity that has somehow managed to convice psychotic people that it's a good idea to worship it. Honest it does.

Well it says that God is wholly good and all-loving, so read from the perspective that he is demonic it's entirely contradictory.

Where the hell do people get these stupid ideas from anyway?

quote:Originally posted by PerpetualBurn:

Well it says that God is wholly good and all-loving, so read from the perspective that he is demonic it's entirely contradictory.

If a demonic entity authors a book intended to make people worship it, I think it makes perfect sense that that book might contain a lie or two. I could write a book that says I'm all-powerful, and if someone says I wasn't then it would contradict the book... but that doesn't mean that that's wrong.

[This message has been edited by Twisted_Ferret (edited 08-25-2006).]

Right, so if you read it from the perspective that everything in it is a lie then you should make up a completely different supernatural entity to suit your own crazed stupidity?

If we're going to decide that it contains lies (which I'm all for) then we shouldn't start making up such radical theories. Such presupposition would make then entire text unreliable.

quote:"god" is a demonic entity that has somehow managed to convice psychotic people that it's a good idea to worship it.

if you only knew how correct you are...

The god of the bible is not the one true God.

quote:Originally posted by PerpetualBurn:

If we're going to decide that it contains lies (which I'm all for) then we shouldn't start making up such radical theories. Such presupposition would make then entire text unreliable.

It is very unreliable. Read the old testament. Do you really think that the true high God would commit acts of jealosy & vengeance as portrayed in the bible? Jealosy & vengeance etc. are human traits, not godly ones. There were higher-dimensional beings in ancient times that people worshipped as gods, but they were in fact evil. That's where the stories in the bible originate.

Wait a second...when the hell did I argue in favour of the reliability of the Old Testament.

Try reading my posts again, that's not the point I'm making. In fact, I'm fairly sure in that bit you quoted the parentheses explicitly state the opposite.

[This message has been edited by PerpetualBurn (edited 08-25-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by PerpetualBurn:

Right, so if you read it from the perspective that everything in it is a lie then you should make up a completely different supernatural entity to suit your own crazed stupidity?

Well, I don't think the OP means that it'd all lies. As for why not make up an entirely different one: because the Bible has already been written, and we're speculating on what might've written it. That it's full of lies doesn't matter, because it exists at all and must've been authored by something... and if the lies fit the pattern of this supposed daemonic entity, well, that might be evidence. http://www.totse.com/bbs/eek.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/eek.gif) In the OP's mind at least. http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif)

quote:If we're going to decide that it contains lies (which I'm all for) then we shouldn't start making up such radical theories. Such presupposition would make then entire text unreliable.

I don't disagree, actually. I don't believe in the supernatural... I just found this idea interesting. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

[This message has been edited by Twisted_Ferret (edited 08-25-2006).]

quote:Well, I don't think the OP means that it'd all lies. As for why not make up an entirely different one: because the Bible has already been written, and we're speculating on what might've written it. That it's full of lies doesn't matter, because it exists at all and must've been authored by something... and if the lies fit the pattern of this supposed daemonic entity, well, that might be evidence. In the OP's mind at least.

It still really doesn't make sense to presuppose that the author is untrustworthy, is a pathological liar, but then to conclude that he must be some form of almighty being because he says he is.

Demons are not almighty! They are as worms before the LORD your God!

So's your face.

quote:Originally posted by TheAdversary:

The "God of the Christian Bible" demanded a sacrafice to get rid of the sins of humanity.

That sacrafice had the name of Jesus.

Jesus was a human sacrafice.

You know... person gets his/her insides ripped out in the name of a deity so that the person doing the killing somehow gets magically empowered... human sacrafice.

If you are christian you are basically supporting human sacrafice. That sounds positively EVIL to me.

In the OT man offered the finest of his harvest to God for allowing him to prosper and reap the benefits of his toil. The sweetest fruits and vegetables, and the finest cattle. This was his thank you to God. Man's walk with God grew weak, and his people lacked faith. Evil was allowed to spread like plague. Man no longer honored God with the fruits and creatures of the Earth. The Earth was cleansed in water. God swore never to do so again. Sodom and Gamora were home to a great many sins and were destroyed by fire. And again the Earth and it's inhabitants prosper. And in great numbers humanity populated the Earth and spread far and wide, but wherever you find a man, you find the potential for sin to influence him. In the OT God was a jealous and vengeful God, but his word was to never again cleanse the Earth. Something had to be done. In all ways we are to acknowledge Him, and we denied the creator. Man had lost his way with God, giving neither his faith nor honor. A sacrifice had to be made. Since we would not offer atonement for our sins, Jesus stepped up to the plate and offered himmself. Sacrifice is something one must be willing to give. You can not take sacrifice. It must be given. So he stretched out his arms and offered himmself as atonement for your sins. The Lamb of God. I don't know anything about magical empowerment, but atonement had been reached and man could begin to recieve the glory of God once again.

quote:

Only an evil entity would demand an evil act be carried out in it's name...

God did not demand it...he required it. He required a sacrifice so that His creation was not overrun by sin and apathy. When Jesus hung dying on the cross, he said, "Father, why hast thou forsaken me?" He said this because at that point, God could no longer look down upon Christ, because he bore the sin of humanity and God could not gaze upon sin. He bore our sins so that we may be prosperous in the graciousness of God. If sin is present, God cannot help you. You have to choose. It's free will and God can not make you do that which is not in your heart.

quote:And don't try and tell me that Jesus was somehow different so it somehow makes human sacrafice a good thing... to do that you not only have to prove that Jesus actually existed but had the magical powers that defy the laws of reality.

Not only that, but right at the start of the bible the "creator" doesn't demand that people have faith... only Lucifer does.

"Eat the apple biznitches.... TRUST ME".

Demanding faith + stupid rules + demands for human sacrafice = Religion that worships a blood-god without even knowing it!

Oh, and there is a ton of other bits and pieces in that oh-so-holy book... but if you think I am going to go through 20,000+ contradictions you have got to be kidding!



I've got to go pick my brother up from work, but I'll be back to discuss this further.

quote:Originally posted by TheAdversary:

I know, I know...God is just the imaginary friend of some nutcase that lived over 10,000 years ago.

But still... Lucifer is the imaginary friend that the bible tries to convince you to believe in!

And if you read the legends of Isis and Horus, they are identical to the Mary and Jesus stories in the new testament... Horus was sacraficed on a cross at easter and everything! This was a good 4,000 years before christianity popped up too...



I've heard this many times and this post made me think a little deeper about it.

Let's see if I can break this down -

The idea of crucifying someone on the cross is not a Christian idea - The Romans did this - Jesus could have been stabbed, head chopped off, ripped apart, left in the desert to die..etc. It just so happens that his death was conducted by Roman Pagens via crucifiction. I might be starting to see the connection here. Pagans who believe in a pagan god who used cruifiction to punish crimes?? How did that come about?

THe bible says this event was a final sacfrifice for the sins of mankind. There is no celebration of the method of how the Christ died. The roman crucification was just a method used - maybe it was done that way to help modern historians pinpoint the timelines of the actual event.

As for easter - there is no such word in the bible- In fact there is no call to celebrate the event at all in the bible. Easter has nothing to do with the Christian faith as it is practiced today.

The death burial and resurection in truth is celebrated by baptism. It is a spiritual ceremony for the spiritual event. Good friday to resurrection Sunday is a secular celebration for the secular event.

I dont beleive in the shit either way it goes.

quote:Originally posted by Source:

It doesn't matter how you look at it, if God is real, then God is evil.

I have no proof, this is just what I believe.

What little consideration you seem to give to the whole thing, what little thanks...If God is Real, then God is responsible for your eyesight, your fingers, your body, your legs, your organs, your ability to speak, your ability to think, your ability to smell, feel, taste, absolutely everything good in your life. God is not all Good, but God is certainly not all evil unless you would rather not exist and how thankless that would be.

quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

What little consideration you seem to give to the whole thing, what little thanks...If God is Real, then God is responsible for your eyesight, your fingers, your body, your legs, your organs, your ability to speak, your ability to think, your ability to smell, feel, taste, absolutely everything good in your life. God is not all Good, but God is certainly not all evil unless you would rather not exist and how thankless that would be.

Really? 'cause I always thought it was my mother and father that gave me all those....



Edit: But if what you say is true, (which I really have trouble believing, sorry.) Then God is responsible for my biological dad never wanting to see me. It was all part of Gods plan for him to say "oh shit, I don't want kids!" and then leave, but then ironically, he went and had two other kids with another women, two years later. Now I have no idea what the guy even looks like, but I know he still lives somewhere round this area, becuase my mother as seen him around and has told me how he just crosses the street and walks off in the other dircetion, if he see's us.

So I ask you, are those the actions of a good loving God?



[This message has been edited by Source (edited 08-26-2006).]

Haha Reads like the Charlie Kaufman screenplay for "Adaptation"

quote:Originally posted by TheAdversary:

The bible actually makes sense and doesn't contradict itself if you read it from the perspective that "god" is a demonic entity that has somehow managed to convice psychotic people that it's a good idea to worship it. Honest it does.

And I know I'm going to get flamed the shit out of by christians and what not... but my interpretation of the bible is probably more accurate than the touchey feely "god loves you" crap.

Read and discuss.

maybe i've been doing too may drugs, but i've been feeling spiritual. it really piisses me off to see people running around and claiming to be filled with gods love or whatever. listen, if this god created all this do you think he'd be so petty as to send us to hell for not accepting his son into our hearts? that's like high school, and i'm sure mr. high and mighty isn't in highschool (unless he is). just live a good life, i.e. be good to people and animals and give a shit about the environment. you can still get fucked up, but take care. seriously.

oh and i'm sure these "supreme beings" are beyond good and evil and whatever happens to us is just and right. the people who die have it coming and the evil that lives live for reason, we are soo dumb and short sighted that we can see the forest through the trees. eat some soy hippy.

quote:Originally posted by Source:

Really? 'cause I always thought it was my mother and father that gave me all those....



Edit: But if what you say is true, (which I really have trouble believing, sorry.) Then God is responsible for my biological dad never wanting to see me. It was all part of Gods plan for him to say "oh shit, I don't want kids!" and then leave, but then ironically, he went and had two other kids with another women, two years later. Now I have no idea what the guy even looks like, but I know he still lives somewhere round this area, becuase my mother as seen him around and has told me how he just crosses the street and walks off in the other dircetion, if he see's us.

So I ask you, are those the actions of a good loving God?





And in that wonderful story do you forget about the eyes you have to see, the ears you have to hear the story? The Mind you have to understand it, the emotions you have to feel it? Do you forget about your tongue and your mouth and the nerves and the connections and the other beautiful systems with in you which allow you to respond? The fingers that allowed you to type it?

Or are you going to complain about a man who showed his carelessness by doing you the favor of leaving you, rather than staying and showing his displeasure influencing you negatively by his very presence?

Your mother and father made every nerve and neuron, every centimeter of skin on your body? No, they are only part of a vast process, they created nothing at all, nor did they manifest the possibility for such things to occur.

It is God, the God you have trouble believing in, probably due to some false concept or idea, imagery of God which has led you to disbelieve, that you owe all that is good to, and there is a whole lot to be thankful for.

My God is not some distant concept, some man with a long beard with a son flying in the clouds. My God is closer to me than my own jugular vein, than the atoms that make me up, than the very fabric in which I exist, my God is my Reality, there is no seperation, my God is what encompasses me and absolutely everything...My God is what I utilize every moment of my existence inside and out, sleeping and waking, I owe all the possible things I can possibly do and possibly think to the originator in which those were manifest.

With this understanding I offer thanks to my God, and in a way, since all is one, I find peace in doing so.

Thank you, Thank you so much, Thank you for my eyes, my ears, my heart...Thank you for my eyesight, my hearing, my ability to think, my ability to feel, my ability to taste and smell, all my senses, my organs, my muscles, my skin, my hair, Thank you...Thank you for my life, my wealth, my clothing, my family, those who care for me, Thank you for EVERYTHING. To you I owe absolutely everything, and To you I offer my submission and my thanks!

Who do I pray to? I pray to what encompasses me and everything, what I am made of, what is closer to me than my jugular, I pray to God. To God belongs all thanks.

[This message has been edited by Abrahim (edited 08-26-2006).]

Abrahim, be honest here, are you simply copying the philosophy of Spinoza, a philosopher who beleived the universe is god?

quote:Originally posted by Raw_Power:

Abrahim, be honest here, are you simply copying the philosophy of Spinoza, a philosopher who beleived the universe is god?

No I'm not. I didn't know about Spinoza or The Brahman of Hinduism until after I had developed my ideas on my own, ideas that I had held for a long time, which I can claim are based in the ideas found in the Qur'an if anything.

Later, actually only recently, have people informed me that they find Spinoza's ideas to be similar to mine. I find my ideas to be much more akin to The Brahman of Hinduism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahman#Semantics_and_pronunciation

"In later Sanskrit usage:-

brahma (nominative singular), brahman (stem) (neuter[1] gender) means the concept of the Supreme transcendent and immanent Reality or the One Godhead or Cosmic Spirit in Hinduism; this is discussed below. Also note that the word Brahman in this sense is exceptionally treated as masculine (see the Merrill-Webster Sanskrit Dictionary). It is called "the Brahman" in English."

I don't believe God is the Universe. Truckfixr at somepoint posted about what I believe in attempt to clearify it to you, as I posted alot about it in "My dear, Abrahim, you are flawed in your theories..."

http://www.totse.com/bbs/Forum15/HTML/005624.html

The people in there also seemed to misunderstand my idea of God, thinking that I was saying that God is the Universe.

God is not the Universe, but what the Universe is within, existing by, made of, dependant on, utilizing in order to exist, and the same goes for alternative universes and the realities in which they are in. I believe God is the Ultimate Reality all encompassing, that includes all realities and universes and things, God being infinite.

If you were to strip away the Universes and absolutely everything, there would only be God, in the image of nothing, but God is not nothing, as Only Nothing Can Exist Within Nothing. The Proof of My God is in Everything because Nothing can Exist in Nothing. So I state that this Universe exists within Reality, and Reality exists within Ultimate All Encompassing Reality, which I also call God.

"What is God?" Is my Article about my beliefs: http://www.totse.com/bbs/Forum15/HTML/005442.html

My ideas were developed by myself, if any text gets credit for these ideas I give that credit to the Qur'an. I learnt about Spinoza only recently and I don't believe the Universe is God any more than a single atom or whatever may be smaller is a part of God but not the whole of the infinite all encompassing One.

Couldn’t you argue that the ‘all encompassing infinite’ is the universe because the universe is all and everything? So you believe the universe is the omnipotent god… therefore, I would be a part of god and I could treat the whole universe as mine - my body! A philosophy of owning the universe - owning the all!

All things are nothing to me, I am nothing, therefore I own nothing, and therefore I own everything.

That’s quite an exciting idea.





[This message has been edited by Raw_Power (edited 08-26-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Raw_Power:

Couldn’t you argue that the ‘all encompassing infinite’ is the universe because the universe is all and everything? So you believe the universe is the omnipotent god… therefore, I would be a part of god and I could treat the whole universe as mine - my body! A philosophy of owning the universe - owning the all!

All things are nothing to me, I am nothing, therefore I own nothing, and therefore I own everything.



That's not far from popular spiritual beliefs.

Is it an absurd idea to think of God as the consciousness of energy. Everything is made of energy, therefore God is everywhere. He is everything therefore knows everything. He loves everything because everything is himself loving himself.

We are the consciousness of energy that is Us, therefore when we die, the consciousness that is us simply changes form as different vibrations of energy.

quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

And in that wonderful story do you forget about the eyes you have to see, the ears you have to hear the story? The Mind you have to understand it, the emotions you have to feel it? Do you forget about your tongue and your mouth and the nerves and the connections and the other beautiful systems with in you which allow you to respond? The fingers that allowed you to type it?

Or are you going to complain about a man who showed his carelessness by doing you the favor of leaving you, rather than staying and showing his displeasure influencing you negatively by his very presence?

Your mother and father made every nerve and neuron, every centimeter of skin on your body? No, they are only part of a vast process, they created nothing at all, nor did they manifest the possibility for such things to occur.

It is God, the God you have trouble believing in, probably due to some false concept or idea, imagery of God which has led you to disbelieve, that you owe all that is good to, and there is a whole lot to be thankful for.

My God is not some distant concept, some man with a long beard with a son flying in the clouds. My God is closer to me than my own jugular vein, than the atoms that make me up, than the very fabric in which I exist, my God is my Reality, there is no seperation, my God is what encompasses me and absolutely everything...My God is what I utilize every moment of my existence inside and out, sleeping and waking, I owe all the possible things I can possibly do and possibly think to the originator in which those were manifest.

With this understanding I offer thanks to my God, and in a way, since all is one, I find peace in doing so.

Thank you, Thank you so much, Thank you for my eyes, my ears, my heart...Thank you for my eyesight, my hearing, my ability to think, my ability to feel, my ability to taste and smell, all my senses, my organs, my muscles, my skin, my hair, Thank you...Thank you for my life, my wealth, my clothing, my family, those who care for me, Thank you for EVERYTHING. To you I owe absolutely everything, and To you I offer my submission and my thanks!

Who do I pray to? I pray to what encompasses me and everything, what I am made of, what is closer to me than my jugular, I pray to God. To God belongs all thanks.



Do you have to make every post, so damn long?!

Well I am happy that you have discovered that your God means more than your jugular. But until you can offer me proof that God made your jugular, or that God made anything for that matter. Then I will continue to believe that no such entity exists.

quote:Originally posted by Raw_Power:

Couldn’t you argue that the ‘all encompassing infinite’ is the universe because the universe is all and everything? So you believe the universe is the omnipotent god… therefore, I would be a part of god and I could treat the whole universe as mine - my body! A philosophy of owning the universe - owning the all!

All things are nothing to me, I am nothing, therefore I own nothing, and therefore I own everything.

That’s quite an exciting idea.





I believe that this Universe is just one of an infinite number of possible Universes, within Possible Realities all Encompassed by God, the Ultimate Reality.

quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

I believe that this Universe is just one of an infinite number of possible Universes, within Possible Realities all Encompassed by God, the Ultimate Reality.

Yeah, but if we are within the ultimate reality, then we are part of the ultimate reality and my statement of [ultimate] reality still stands.

quote:Originally posted by TheAdversary:

"Eat the apple biznitches.... TRUST ME".

I love this.

I came up with this same thought that Lucifer was the good guy and God was some self absorbed liar. It pissed my friends off when I started to talk about it. SUCCESS!!

quote:Originally posted by Raw_Power:

Yeah, but if we are within the ultimate reality, then we are part of the ultimate reality and my statement of [ultimate] reality still stands.

Yes we are all part of Ultimate Reality, but is a tree the whole of it? A single atom, does it encompass it all? No, I don't submit to parts, but to the Infinite Whole, what Encompasses All, not a portion, not a singular incarnation or manifestation, not an atom, but what all atoms are within.

Let's please not turn this into a thread about Abrahim's ideas. There's already a long ass thread on the subject (which I'm STILL writing my response to, I've only had time to read one of the 4 books needed for it).

About Lucifer, two points:

1) Technically it's incorrect to apply the name "Lucifer" to Satan.

2) I do find the OP's points interesting however. To add another point, when you think about it it's quite strange that a central part of the religion involves metaphorical cannibalism.

quote:Originally posted by Source:

It doesn't matter how you look at it, if God is real, then God is evil.

I have no proof, this is just what I believe.



impossible, simply from a logical standpoint. If God is all good, then everything He does must be good. Therefore, it's our interpretation of evil that is wrong. Essentially, Xians believe the definition of good is what Jesus would do. Jesus is an incarnation of God.

Doesn't make Him a very nice guy though.

You have a point there

http://www.truechristian.com/confessionbooth.html

I found an excerpt from Lobsang Rampa:

"Such is the story or legend of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, wherein Eve was tempted by a serpent and in which she ate the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge, and having been tempted by the serpent, and having eaten of the Tree of Knowledge, they gazed upon each other and saw that they were naked. Having obtained this forbidden knowledge, they were no longer allowed to remain in the Garden of Eden.

"The Garden of Eden, of course, is that blissful land of ignorance in which one fears nothing because one understands nothing, in which one is, to all intents and purposes, a cabbage. But here, then, is the more esoteric version of the story.

"Man and woman are not just merely a mass of protoplasm, of flesh stuck upon a bony framework. Man is, or can be, a much greater thing than that. Here on this Earth we are mere puppets of our Overself, that Overself which temporarily resides in the astral and which obtains experience through the flesh body which is the puppet, the instrument of the astral.

"Physiologists and others have dissected man's body, and they have reduced everything to a mass of flesh and bone. They can discuss this bone or that bone, they can discuss various organs, but these are all material things. They have not discovered, nor have they tried to discover, the more secret things, the intangible things, things which the Indians, the Chinese, and the Tibetans knew centuries and centuries before Christianity.

"The spine is a very important structure indeed. It houses the spinal cord, without which one is paralysed, without which one is useless as a human. But the spine is more important than that. Right in the centre of the spinal nerve, the spinal cord is a tube, which extends to another dimension. It is a tube upon which the force known as the Kundalini can travel when awakened. At the base of the spine is what the Easterners call the Serpent Fire. It is the seat of Life itself.

"In the average Westerner this great force is dormant, asleep, almost paralysed with disuse. Actually it is like a serpent coiled at the base of the spine, a serpent of immense power, but which, for various reasons, cannot escape from its confines for the time being. This mythical figure of a serpent is known as the Kundalini, and in awakened Easterners, the serpent force can arise through the channel in the spinal nerve, rise straight up to the brain and beyond, beyond into the astral. As it rises its potent, force activates each of the chakrams, or centres of power, such as the umbilicus, throat, and various other parts. When those centres are awakened a person becomes vital, powerful, dominant.

"With complete control of the serpent force one can achieve almost anything. One can move mountains, or walk on water, or levitate, or allow oneself to be buried in the earth in a sealed chamber from which one would emerge alive at any specified time.

"So we have it in the legend that Eve was tempted by a serpent. In other words, in some way Eve got to know about the Kundalini. She was able to release the serpent power coiled at the base of her spine and that rose up and surged through the spinal column, and awakened her brain and gave her knowledge. Thus in the story it can be said that she ate of the Tree of Knowledge, or of the fruit thereof. She had this knowledge and with it she could see the aura, the force around the human body. She could see the aura of Adam, his thoughts and intentions, and Adam, too being tempted by Eve, had his Kundalini awakened and then he could see Eve as she was.

"The truth is that each gazed upon the aura of the other, seeing the other's naked astral form, the form undothed by the human body, and so could see all the other's thoughts, all his desires, all his knowledge, and that should not be at the stage of evolution of Adam and Eve.

"Old priests knew that under certain conditions the aura could be seen, they knew that the Kundalini could be awakened by sex. So in the old days priests taught that sex was sinful, that sex was the root of all evil, and because Eve tempted Adam, sex was the downfall of the world. They taught this because sometimes, as I have said, sex can stir the Kundalini, which rests dormant in most people at the base of the spine.

"The Kundalini force is coiled down low, a terrific force, like a clock spring the way it is coiled. Like a clock spring suddenly uncoiled it can do damage. This particular force is located at the base of the spine, part of it actually within the generative organs. People of the East recognize this; certain of the Hindus use sex in their religious ceremonies. They use a different form of sex manifestation, and a different sex position to achieve specified results, and they do achieve those results. The ancients, centuries and centuries ago, worshipped sex. They went in for phallic worship. There were certain ceremonies in temples which raised the Kundalini which gave one clairvoyance, telepathy, and many other esoteric powers.

"Sex used properly and in a certain way in love, can raise one's vibrations. It can cause what the Easterners call the Flower of the Lotus to open, and to embrace the world of the spirit. It can cause the Kundalini to surge and to awaken certain centres. But sex and the Kundalini should never be abused. One should complement and supplement the other. Those religions which say that there should be no sex between husband and wife are tragically wrong. This is often advocated by many of the more dubious cults of Christianity. The Roman Catholics come nearer to the truth when they advise husband and wife to have sexual experiences, but the Catholics advocate it blindly, not knowing why, and believing that it is merely for the procreation of children, which is not the main purpose of sex, although most people believe' it is.

"These religions, then, which say that one should have no sexual experiences - are trying to stifle individual evolution and the evolution of the race. This is how it works:

In magnetism one obtains a powerful magnet by arranging the molecules of the substance to face in one direction. Normally in a piece of iron, for example, all the molecules are in any direction like an undisciplined crowd. They are haphazardly arranged, but when a certain force is applied (in the case of iron, a magnetizing force) all the molecules face in one direction, and so one has the great power of magnetism - without which there would be no radio or electricity, without which there would be no road or rall transport, or air travel cither.

"In the human, when the Kundalini is awakened, when the Serpent Fire becomes alive, then the molecules in the body all face in one direction because the Kundalini force, in awakening, has pulled the molecules in that direction. Then the human body becomes vibrant with life and health, it becomes powerful in knowledge, it can see all.

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