I've always accepted the existence of God, but I've lacked what was necessary to walk with Him. Every man walks a journey called life, and I've been standing still for quite some time.

Last night it finally clicked, and I was able to let go. For every action, there is a reaction, and when I let go I was blindsided by the love that replaced the confusion, ignorance, and hatred that will never find quarter in my heart, again. My stormy heart is calm at last. Before last night, I had a knot in my chest; a weight that held me down, and kept me blind and deaf to the truth. I was one week away from requesting a prescription for valium to calm that storm in me. I was actually looking forward to it. I had a desire for that answer. All that anxiousness, and confusion has left my body, and I am free. Chirst took that from me long ago, and I thought I understood what that meant, but I was wrong. I've led a wicked life, all the while denying my God. I would pray and repent and deny my Savior through actions I knew to be wrong. Eventually I just stopped praying altogether, because I knew I would only disappoint Him. Last night changed me forever. I woke up today with a calm I had never previously experienced. I would use certain drugs to attain that state in the past, but they all pale in comparison to steady hand of God. I thought I had accepted His way in the past, but I never really let go of the burdens that weighed on my soul. Last night was a turning point. One that I will stay until my dying day. I was given an opportunity to prove that today...and I failed. But, the message of it all was recieved loud and clear, and my eyes and ears have been opened to the will of God. I was amazed at the speed of his call. I failed the test, but the answer was recieved immediately, and I can now say that I am ready to walk with Him, and follow wherever he leads me. I have no doubt that my journey is about to get harder, but my strength comes from the Almighty and now I can stand. And walk.

I will no longer be lukewarm. I'm on fire and I intend to spread the flames of passion for God to any who will listen.

I assume you started taking the valium...

quote:Originally posted by PerpetualBurn:

I assume you started taking the valium...

lol

quote:Originally posted by PerpetualBurn:

I assume you started taking the valium...

I've taken valium before, but it's nothing like what I'm on right now.

quote:Originally posted by HampTheToker:

I've always accepted the existence of God, but I've lacked what was necessary to walk with Him. Every man walks a journey called life, and I've been standing still for quite some time.

Last night it finally clicked, and I was able to let go. For every action, there is a reaction, and when I let go I was blindsided by the love that replaced the confusion, ignorance, and hatred that will never find quarter in my heart, again. My stormy heart is calm at last. Before last night, I had a knot in my chest; a weight that held me down, and kept me blind and deaf to the truth. I was one week away from requesting a prescription for valium to calm that storm in me. I was actually looking forward to it. I had a desire for that answer. All that anxiousness, and confusion has left my body, and I am free. Chirst took that from me long ago, and I thought I understood what that meant, but I was wrong. I've led a wicked life, all the while denying my God. I would pray and repent and deny my Savior through actions I knew to be wrong. Eventually I just stopped praying altogether, because I knew I would only disappoint Him. Last night changed me forever. I woke up today with a calm I had never previously experienced. I would use certain drugs to attain that state in the past, but they all pale in comparison to steady hand of God. I thought I had accepted His way in the past, but I never really let go of the burdens that weighed on my soul. Last night was a turning point. One that I will stay until my dying day. I was given an opportunity to prove that today...and I failed. But, the message of it all was recieved loud and clear, and my eyes and ears have been opened to the will of God. I was amazed at the speed of his call. I failed the test, but the answer was recieved immediately, and I can now say that I am ready to walk with Him, and follow wherever he leads me. I have no doubt that my journey is about to get harder, but my strength comes from the Almighty and now I can stand. And walk.

I will no longer be lukewarm. I'm on fire and I intend to spread the flames of passion for God to any who will listen.

Amen brother -

My only suggestion is to take a break from this site for a few months - focus on the new found faith and don't give two thoughts to what people think or say about the direction you have found.

I know exactly what you are talking about as it also happened to me the way you explained.

In addition we will all fail "the test" - there is not one of us who is without sin.

It is often those of us who are humbled by our "failing" and realize we are not gods who begin to enter into the "kingdom".

When we hear that God is all powerful - I agree but He can be defeated...deny Him a place in your heart and you will win your place seperate from Him.

As in this spiritual war - the goal is to determine and seperate the faithful from the faithless.



[This message has been edited by Interest (edited 08-25-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by HampTheToker:

I will no longer be lukewarm. I'm on fire and I intend to spread the flames of passion for God to any who will listen.

Congratulations. I find your story interesting, and I would like to know how you came to your conclusion.

quote:Originally posted by HampTheToker:

I've taken valium before, but it's nothing like what I'm on right now.



...Diazepam?

Im listening http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

quote:Originally posted by HampTheToker:

I've taken valium before, but it's nothing like what I'm on right now.

Acid?

I wish that I could effectively ramble with useless metaphors and vague 'revelations' to act as if I've somehow attained some Universal Truth.

But hey, congratulations! You're delusional.

/bitter rage

quote:Originally posted by Interest:



My only suggestion is to take a break from this site for a few months - focus on the new found faith and don't give two thoughts to what people think or say about the direction you have found.

That way you don't have to consider other people's valid points. Bad idea.

quote:Taken from wikipedia:

Self propaganda is a form of propaganda and indoctrination performed by an individual or a group on oneself.

Essentially, it is the act of telling yourself (Or a group telling themselves) something that they consider to be true, or to convince themselves, with the unfortunate repercussion of their having no doubts. Because of what they do to themselves, they will go over every aspect of their side of the "argument" to prove to themselves that they are right, and will refuse to look at any alternatives. Self propaganda is a form of self-deception and indoctrination. It functions at individual and social levels: political, economic, and religious. It hides behind partial truths and ignores questions of critical thought.

quote:Originally posted by Interest:



As in this spiritual war - the goal is to determine and separate the faithful from the faithless.

Thats a very destructive mentality at best, treating religion like anything even close to war is an insult to the peaceful ideas it is founded on. There are no atheists that want to do war with you, most that I know are pacifist. Thinking people are out to get you is currently considered a mental condition worthy of treatment. It is the fundamentalist religious people who cause most of todays world, and war problems.

On the other hand if people followed the teachings of people like Jesus, and Buddha, we wouldn't have war in the first place, but people don't and won't. If you want to embrace god, do some good in the world, help another person, try to stop war and violence, stick up for your fellow man. We need more people like that.

I don't mind you being religious, but don't be a hypocrite, like the vast majority of religious people are. Don't pretend you can't be wrong, or that your righteous, or more deserving and wise. God might not exist, there is no proof he does. Don't start abandoning logic and reason to maintain your faith. Regardless this should not deter you from being kind toward your fellow human.

Like I said, the world needs more people who help other people, religion alone won't turn you into that type of person, you need to strive to be that way.

Good luck with whatever path you choose.

quote:That way you don't have to consider other people's valid points. Bad idea.[

Would you smash a newborn baby as well? Or would you let it mature and grow a bit before you handed it over to the wolves.

I didn't say never come back..I said take a break. Let it sink in..take your time with it..and if you still want to challenge your faith go right ahead.

quote:

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Taken from wikipedia:

You do realize that you are pulling information out of a manmade document and treating it as gospel in order to dispute another claimed "man made" book?

How is it ok for you to do this but it is not ok for a Christian to use the bible?

But, I digress

quote:

Self propaganda is a form of propaganda and indoctrination performed by an individual or a group on oneself.

Essentially, it is the act of telling yourself (Or a group telling themselves) something that they consider to be true, or to convince themselves, with the unfortunate repercussion of their having no doubts. Because of what they do to themselves, they will go over every aspect of their side of the "argument" to prove to themselves that they are right, and will refuse to look at any alternatives. Self propaganda is a form of self-deception and indoctrination. It functions at individual and social levels: political, economic, and religious. It hides behind partial truths and ignores questions of critical thought.



I see your point- but do you also measure your own ideas to this as well? How are you any different?



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:

Thats a very destructive mentality at best, treating religion like anything even close to war is an insult to the peaceful ideas it is founded on.

Have you never had to fight a tempation or inkling to do something you should not do? We war inside of ourselves all day long and peace only comes through surrender to what is trying to master you no matter what that may be.

I don't believe you have any idea what the Christian faith is - you have your interpretation and perspective and that is ok. But, if you did understand CHristianity they talk openly and at great length about spiritual warfare, the armor of God - etc etc

The spiritual warfare inside of us no different the then secular wars outside of us as it is from the heart that all war springs.

quote:

There are no atheists that want to do war with you, most that I know are pacifist.

[/qoute]

I'll trust a pacifist up until they get within arms reach. There is no such thing as a pacifist wages their war on a different level. By doing nothing to stop the enemy makes one sypathetic to the cause of said enemy. Pacifism is by far useless in the realm of spirutal warfare when action is necessary. If you see someone stealing from your neighbor would stop them? Pacifists?

[quote]

Thinking people are out to get you is currently considered a mental condition worthy of treatment. It is the fundamentalist religious people who cause most of todays world, and war problems.

I don't know what to say to this - you don't get it..that's all.

quote:

On the other hand if people followed the teachings of people like Jesus, and Buddha, we wouldn't have war in the first place, but people don't and won't. If you want to embrace god, do some good in the world, help another person, try to stop war and violence, stick up for your fellow man. We need more people like that.



I spent my time in the Marine Corps...I went to Iraq...I listen to what the "pacifists" say today - we are damned if we do and damned if we don't. You can't praise the pacifist in one sentence then praise action in the next. You contradicted yourself.

quote:

I don't mind you being religious, but don't be a hypocrite, like the vast majority of religious people are. Don't pretend you can't be wrong, or that your righteous, or more deserving and wise.

No sir, you still don't know me or what is in my heart...I consider myself a complete failure in being the perfect, upright human. I accept it - I sought foregiveness for it as I have learned that the imperfection in us and what we do is a debt we build with God.

quote:

God might not exist, there is no proof he does.

Not true - if you believed in God you would see that everything tangable is proof of His existence. This is a matter of perspective.

quote:

Don't start abandoning logic and reason to maintain your faith. Regardless this should not deter you from being kind toward your fellow human.

Life requires a bit of healthy skepticism for certain - but coming to faith logic takes on a new dimmension.

quote:

Like I said, the world needs more people who help other people, religion alone won't turn you into that type of person, you need to strive to be that way.

Good luck with whatever path you choose.

Thank you for your anti-religion sermon. It sounded a little self-righteous though.

quote:Originally posted by Interest:

Would you smash a newborn baby as well? Or would you let it mature and grow a bit before you handed it over to the wolves.

I think I would not let a wolf eat a baby in the first place. That is an inappropriate metaphor for this situation. There is no reason not to question everything.

quote:Originally posted by Interest:

I see your point- but do you also measure your own ideas to this as well? How are you any different?

I don't think you see my point.

I do measure my own ideas to this, sure sometimes this leads to ideas I don't like, but that does not bother me. If you can't see all the sides of something you might as well not see at all.

quote:Originally posted by Interest:

You do realize that you are pulling information out of a manmade document and treating it as gospel in order to dispute another claimed "man made" book?

How is it ok for you to do this but it is not ok for a Christian to use the bible?

Honestly, what are you talking about? Please point out where I said don't read the bible.



quote:Originally posted by Interest:



Have you never had to fight a tempation or inkling to do something you should not do? We war inside of ourselves all day long and peace only comes through surrender to what is trying to master you no matter what that may be.



Thats not the peace I strive for. Thats just weakness.

quote:Originally posted by Interest:

I don't believe you have any idea what the Christian faith is - you have your interpretation and perspective and that is ok. But, if you did understand CHristianity they talk openly and at great length about spiritual warfare, the armor of God - etc etc

The spiritual warfare inside of us no different the then secular wars outside of us as it is from the heart that all war springs.

I don't think Jesus wanted any sort of warfare. Besides, it wouldn't take much to turn spiritual warfare into real warfare, just a play on words. I don't agree with war, and it should be avoided whenever possible.

quote:Originally posted by Interest:

I'll trust a pacifist up until they get within arms reach.

Don't you trust Jesus?

quote:Originally posted by Interest:



There is no such thing as a pacifist wages their war on a different level. By doing nothing to stop the enemy makes one sypathetic to the cause of said enemy. Pacifism is by far useless in the realm of spirutal warfare when action is necessary. If you see someone stealing from your neighbor would stop them? Pacifists?

By you logic anyone who doesn't want to go to war is sympathetic to whatever we are waring against. So if Jesus refused to kill people today in Iraq he would be a sympathetic traitor?

More "Spiritual warfare", sounds delusional. Unless it is a metaphor?

quote:Originally posted by Interest:

Thank you for your anti-religion sermon. It sounded a little self-righteous though.



It wasn't at all anti-religous, or self-rightous. The reason you said that is that self propaganda I mentioned before. You need me to be an enemy, or a lunatic, to make yourself feel better, too bad I am not. This may dissapoint you, but thats not my problem.

Read what I said, all I said was he can be logical, believe what he wants, and still have morals.

That was the point of my post, he should choose whatever path he wants. I never once said don't believe in something, or to believe in something.

Always remember that blindly believing in god is just as ignorant as blindly refusing god.

quote:Originally posted by gremlin hunter:

Always remember that blindly believing in god is just as ignorant as blindly refusing god.

Well put.

quote:Originally posted by HampTheToker:

I've always accepted the existence of God, but I've lacked what was necessary to walk with Him. Every man walks a journey called life, and I've been standing still for quite some time.

Last night it finally clicked, and I was able to let go. For every action, there is a reaction, and when I let go I was blindsided by the love that replaced the confusion, ignorance, and hatred that will never find quarter in my heart, again. My stormy heart is calm at last. Before last night, I had a knot in my chest; a weight that held me down, and kept me blind and deaf to the truth. I was one week away from requesting a prescription for valium to calm that storm in me. I was actually looking forward to it. I had a desire for that answer. All that anxiousness, and confusion has left my body, and I am free. Chirst took that from me long ago, and I thought I understood what that meant, but I was wrong. I've led a wicked life, all the while denying my God. I would pray and repent and deny my Savior through actions I knew to be wrong. Eventually I just stopped praying altogether, because I knew I would only disappoint Him. Last night changed me forever. I woke up today with a calm I had never previously experienced. I would use certain drugs to attain that state in the past, but they all pale in comparison to steady hand of God. I thought I had accepted His way in the past, but I never really let go of the burdens that weighed on my soul. Last night was a turning point. One that I will stay until my dying day. I was given an opportunity to prove that today...and I failed. But, the message of it all was recieved loud and clear, and my eyes and ears have been opened to the will of God. I was amazed at the speed of his call. I failed the test, but the answer was recieved immediately, and I can now say that I am ready to walk with Him, and follow wherever he leads me. I have no doubt that my journey is about to get harder, but my strength comes from the Almighty and now I can stand. And walk.

I will no longer be lukewarm. I'm on fire and I intend to spread the flames of passion for God to any who will listen.

Good stuff, wanna talk to me on MSN or AIM? abrahimesker@hotmail.com or abrahimesker

quote:I think I would not let a wolf eat a baby in the first place. That is an inappropriate metaphor for this situation. There is no reason not to question everything.

Not true - finding your spirit person for the first time is no different then being an infant fresh out of the womb. There are many dependencies and pitfalls - that baby needs to be nurtured and protected much more so then someone who is fully mature.

When someone is spiritually born they have a strong dependency on their trust and faith in God. It is easily challenged as that person does not even have a basic understanding of what they are experiencing.

It is a perfect metaphore. Throwing a baby to the wolves is no different then throwing a new believer into a pack of athiests. You have to at least see that...

quote:

I don't think you see my point.

I do measure my own ideas to this, sure sometimes this leads to ideas I don't like, but that does not bother me. If you can't see all the sides of something you might as well not see at all.



so then you are saying that you are completly convinced that your spiritual and morale views are right and anything against how you see it is wrong?

quote:

Thats not the peace I strive for. Thats just weakness.

I would be interested in hearing your morale code and how you maintain adherence to it. Does it change with the times or ??

quote:

I don't think Jesus wanted any sort of warfare. Besides, it wouldn't take much to turn spiritual warfare into real warfare, just a play on words. I don't agree with war, and it should be avoided whenever possible.

So - what word would you accept that describes the process of repelling that which is trying to harm you? or take from you? or invade you? If you don't agree with war then do you believe in being conqured and enslaved?

I hope you see the "logic" in this next statement...

if someone is addicted to alchohal or drugs or any other things that have taken control over their lives - you believe a person should just surrender to it?

This is just a play on words - you can call it what you will - but to Christianity this is the spiritual battles we all face daily..

quote:

Don't you trust Jesus?



Certainly I do- the teaching is - faith without works is dead - pacifism never gained anybodys freedom - Tibet is still ruled by China. So, letting your soul be entrapped by pornography or drugs or whatever is no different. Jesus was not a pacifist nor is God - I recommend that you take a deeper look at the bible instead of making God whatever you think He should be instead of knowing who He is -

quote:

By you logic anyone who doesn't want to go to war is sympathetic to whatever we are waring against. So if Jesus refused to kill people today in Iraq he would be a sympathetic traitor?

More "Spiritual warfare", sounds delusional. Unless it is a metaphor?



I do see that you understand the idea of physical war and spiritual war -

Understanding God and what is ok / good etc. doesn't rest completly on Jesus. The truth existed long before the ministry of Jesus. It was here before the days of Moses and Abraham, it was here before Adam and Eve.

Inside the history of the world lies God's perfect intent - I believe the book of ecclesiates explains it best.

quote:Originally posted by Aft3r ImaGe:

It wasn't at all anti-religous, or self-rightous. The reason you said that is that self propaganda I mentioned before. You need me to be an enemy, or a lunatic, to make yourself feel better, too bad I am not. This may dissapoint you, but thats not my problem.





I suppose if I am going to make the mistake of accusing somebody of something I should at least qualify it.

What I was saying is that your view is yours and my view is mine - his views are his...what you are saying is he should keep an open mind that there is no God because that's what you believe. So in fact you are preaching your own gospel. Hence - self-righteous. You would rather him follow your belief system then accept that there is a true God and follow Him. Does that make sense?

quote:

Read what I said, all I said was he can be logical, believe what he wants, and still have morals.[/b}

and when you say that, you are saying that following the moralse ordained by God is not logical?

Again, I don't think you understand Christianity.

[b] quote:

That was the point of my post, he should choose whatever path he wants. I never once said don't believe in something, or to believe in something.

But, you certainly challenged him not to believe. The intent is still there...

quote:Originally posted by Interest:

It is a perfect metaphore. Throwing a baby to the wolves is no different then throwing a new believer into a pack of athiests. You have to at least see that...

I go to church every week. I am an Agnostic. I am bombarded with "a pack of Christians" and listen to them an hour EVERY week.

My religious and moral view does not change.

If he cannot do the same in reverse, while really considering the ideas being presented, he may need to reconsider his faith.

quote:Originally posted by Interest:

so then you are saying that you are completly convinced that your spiritual and morale views are right and anything against how you see it is wrong?

Of course not. That would be very arrogant and close minded. I maintain my views unless sufficient evidence is presented to change them.



quote:Originally posted by Interest:

I would be interested in hearing your morale code and how you maintain adherence to it. Does it change with the times or ??

My moral code is pretty unchanging, and reflects my Christian upbringing, I also like looking into the moral codes of other faiths, mostly Buddhism, and thats how I obtained this "moral code". I still say giving in isn't how you archive peace.

quote:Originally posted by Interest:

So - what word would you accept that describes the process of repelling that which is trying to harm you? or take from you? or invade you? If you don't agree with war then do you believe in being conqured and enslaved?

Did Iraq invade us?

Aside from that, you can be a pacifist and still resist things. Look at Gandhi.

quote:Originally posted by Interest:



I hope you see the "logic" in this next statement...

if someone is addicted to alchohal or drugs or any other things that have taken control over their lives - you believe a person should just surrender to it?

That has nothing to do with war and is just a manipulated tactic. Pacifist means someone who strives for peace, not someone who gets addicted to drugs and does nothing about it.



The person should do what is appropriate to get out of the situation, to beat the addiction, and then get on with their lives.

quote:Originally posted by Interest:



This is just a play on words - you can call it what you will - but to Christianity this is the spiritual battles we all face daily..



I guess you could call that a spiritual battle, if you consider drug addiction spiritual. I would consider it an uphill mental and physical battle. If you believe god is real, or Zeus is real, or unicorns are real, and it helps you get through that hard time, then by all means use that to your advantage.

quote:Originally posted by Interest:

Certainly I do- the teaching is - faith without works is dead - pacifism never gained anybodys freedom - Tibet is still ruled by China. So, letting your soul be entrapped by pornography or drugs or whatever is no different. Jesus was not a pacifist nor is God - I recommend that you take a deeper look at the bible instead of making God whatever you think He should be instead of knowing who He is -

India was liberated by non-violent resistance. There is a huge difference between not killing people, and not being a slave. Don't confuse the two. Also I've read the Bible, Jesus is a pacifist by my definition, he never killed anyone or participated in war. Isn't that correct? Maybe we just have a difference in definition of pacifist.

"Pacifism is the opposition to war or violence as a means of settling disputes. Pacifism covers a spectrum of views ranging from the belief that international disputes can and should be peacefully resolved, to absolute opposition to the use of violence, or even force, under any circumstances."

I would say my view is against killing and violence whenever possible. Mainly killing, but violence should not be used unless it is life threatening, and you need to defend yourself to sustain your life, or the life of a loved one.

As for war, it should be reserved for a last resort, when we are directly threatened. Such as WW2. That was a necessary evil. Huge, huge waste of human life, but it was going to happen, and we needed to defend the world from Nazi rule.

quote:Originally posted by Interest:

I suppose if I am going to make the mistake of accusing somebody of something I should at least qualify it.

Thank you.

quote:Originally posted by Interest:

What I was saying is that your view is yours and my view is mine - his views are his...what you are saying is he should keep an open mind that there is no God because that's what you believe.

I never said there is no god, I said keep an open mind and acknowledge their might be no god. Not because that is what I believe, but because all ideas should be considered. I don't think you can be completely open minded and not leave the possibility that god could exist. Then again somewhere elf people could too. It's just I need evidence supporting whatever I believe in. I don't believe in Roman gods either for the same reasons, nor do I believe in unicorns. If someone told you they saw a unicorn, would it not be appropriate to ask for proof? The same applies to anything. People didn't accept Einstien's theories till it was proved light did bend around the sun. Same applies to this. Otherwise we would believe in everything.

quote:Originally posted by Interest:

So in fact you are preaching your own gospel. Hence - self-righteous. You would rather him follow your belief system then accept that there is a true God and follow Him. Does that make sense?

No, I said be open minded, this includes considering the possibility there is no god. It is not a gospel, just open mindedness and the ability to consider thoughts and ideas. I told him and I quote :

quote:I don't mind you being religious, but don't be a hypocrite, like the vast majority of religious people are. Don't pretend you can't be wrong, or that your righteous, or more deserving and wise. God might not exist, there is no proof he does. Don't start abandoning logic and reason to maintain your faith. Regardless this should not deter you from being kind toward your fellow human.

Like I said, the world needs more people who help other people, religion alone won't turn you into that type of person, you need to strive to be that way.

Good luck with whatever path you choose.

I also mentioned don't be a hypocrite, this is because many religious people preach and don't do. Do you not agree with that?

quote:Originally posted by Interest:

and when you say that, you are saying that following the moralse ordained by God is not logical?

Again, I don't think you understand Christianity.

I understand Christianity very well, I was raised Christian and go to church every week. I went to Sunday school and was confirmed. I know more about Christianity than the average Christian, if not most.

You need to stop saying things you have no idea about, such as things about me. Don't assume things about me or anyone, you accused me of being an atheist, without even being able to spell the word. Don't you ever say what I know or don't know, think or don't think. Even if you knew me in person, you still wouldn't know all that I think and know. Now, more importantly, back to the topic...

I think it is most logical to follow morals that cause the least suffering to other people, and to yourself. A lot of the morals I follow are Christian morals. What I was saying before was faith or no faith he should still have morals. Morals are important. I hope you feel the same.



quote:Originally posted by Interest:

But, you certainly challenged him not to believe.The intent is still there...



I challenged him to think, and have an open mind. I had no intent as to where it leads him. If he becomes Hindu, I would not object, so long as he arrived at that conclusion using reason. All I am saying, is think.



[This message has been edited by Aft3r ImaGe (edited 08-26-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Aft3r ImaGe:

I challenged him to think, and have an open mind. I had no intent as to where it leads him. If he becomes Hindu, I would not object, so long as he arrived at that conclusion using reason. All I am saying, is think.





I owe you some apologies - even after saying I made a mistake for accusations I continued to do them. I am in the wrong -

Your points are well taken...I agree we must think about how we see things - it sounds like he has and has come to a conclusion. I am only saying to protect what ground he has already made as it can be argued away - trying to undestand God and be faithful can be a serious mind bender -

Your views of being agnostic show very clearly as you were giving him advice on how to proceed - I respectfully disagree.

quote:Originally posted by Interest:



I owe you some apologies - even after saying I made a mistake for accusations I continued to do them. I am in the wrong -

Your points are well taken...I agree we must think about how we see things - it sounds like he has and has come to a conclusion. I am only saying to protect what ground he has already made as it can be argued away - trying to undestand God and be faithful can be a serious mind bender -

Your views of being agnostic show very clearly as you were giving him advice on how to proceed - I respectfully disagree.



Thank you, I'd have to say you are the most down to earth christian on this site, and the first I've seen apologize for anything. It is ok you disagree with some my views, thats just the way life is. People don't always agree. I'm glad we came to some understanding though.

quote:Originally posted by Aft3r ImaGe:

Thank you, I'd have to say you are the most down to earth christian on this site, and the first I've seen apologize for anything. It is ok you disagree with some my views, thats just the way life is. People don't always agree. I'm glad we came to some understanding though.

You're welcome..it is not easy trying to walk the walk as I often fail..

I'm just trying to be real and not hide behind "religion" as I do see it as a crutch for the weak in faith.

I see that Christianity is a state of heart and mind and what comes out of those places is what defines our "religion".

Dogmatic following of rules crafted out of the "holy books" is by far damaging to the continence and integrity of man.



"I wuz juzt following ze orderz" is not a Christian principle in my estimates. We will be held accountable no matter how brain washed we become.



[This message has been edited by Interest (edited 08-26-2006).]

KOOLBYE

quote:Originally posted by jsaxton14:

Congratulations. I find your story interesting, and I would like to know how you came to your conclusion.

I woke up and lied about being sicker than I really was so I didn't have to go to work. Really wasn't a big deal to me because I honestly didn't feel like working in a warehouse with a sinus infection.

Anyway, I let my brother take my car to work (we worked at the same place) and he didn't come home till 1:30am. It was pay day, and I was hoping he'd bring my check back with him so we could go out and party like it was 1999.

Instead, he stayed gone, in my car, and I knew that he'd gone to party without me. That usually means weed, xanax, valium, tabs, beer...basically anything we could find. I liked all those things and had my reasons to use them, but my brother's reasons are more complex and his scars run deeper, so he tends to get so messed up he can barely remember any one piece of information for longer than 5 minutes. He doesn't always go overboard, but it hurts to see him go that far.

I've almost lost him twice...that I know of. Not to drug use, but circumstance. Actually, drug use was a factor in one incident, but it wasn't his drug use, it was his cousins. I didn't even know I had a brother until I was 8 years old. Same with my dad. Until then I thought my sisters dad, was also my dad. Then, after they divorced, my mom got back together with my dad and finally told me that the man I knew as daddy, really was not my father. My dad had, had a drug problem also, which broke him to the point of strong-arm robbery, so he spent a couple years in jail (this was before they got back together). He finally was freed of the chains that bound him, so my mother decided to take a chance on him. They've been married for ten years now, and still going, which is amazing considering the worry and stress that my actions had put on their relationship. They've come close to divorce several times, but have always managed to work it out, and find the love that joined them. I blamed myself everytime they would argue, because truly, it was my fault.

Back on topic. So, my brother's out living it up, and I'm sitting at home angry and confused, and then worried. I called hospitals and police departments to make sure he hadn't been in a wreck or arrested, because my car is kind of a lemon. After I found out he wasn't hurt or in trouble, I got really angry. I was going to welcome him home with a fist in his face. I was pacing back and forth, cursing, shouting, hating, feeling a thousand different emotions, and thinking about a million different things, and then I sat down and started to regret all those thoughts and feelings. I was finally able to understand the heartache and worry that I had instilled in those around me for so long. I started thinking about all the things I had done in my life and realized that it all added up to absolutely nothing. That for everytime I had offered my advice, it was hollow, because I, myself, couldn't live the words that came from own mouth. I realized that my belief in God was hollow, regardless of the good things I had done. I finally understood what it meant to be truly selfish. To live for oneself. I finally knew why I carried all my pent up emotion in my chest, because as I started asking the right questions I could feel it loosen. Then, the real bombshell struck me. I thought about all those things that I had done that made me fearful of the person I could be. Then, I thought about the things that I've done without remorse or regard for anyone else. And it hit me. If Jesus knew me, before I knew me, and died for my sins, then he not only died for the sins I had committed, but the sins that I would commit in my future. I finally understood that Jesus took not his lashes...but mine. I could see that by denying him, and doing the things that I knew to be wrong, I was in fact, the whip on his back, and the nail in his hand. My sins made his sacrifice that much more painful. I couldn't bare it. I couldn't bare knowing that my actions not only hurt the people around me, but also the man I claimed as my savior. I knew then, the pain Jesus endured, and the sacrifice he made, was for every single sin that I committed without conscience. He took my sins and was beaten and cruxified for it. I finally understood what it meant to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. And I started to pray for the first time in 6 years. It was the first true prayer I had ever confessed. I looked up and saw past my ceiling for the first time ever. Then suddenly, I started taking very deep breaths and I couldn't stop. I've had asthma since I was about 14. I could feel the air in my lungs, and it was like nothing I had ever experienced. I layed back on my bed, and couldn't stop the smile forming on my lips. I had been completely and utterly honest, for the first time in my life, and I let go of everything. Every little thing that I held in my chest was gone and I felt a calm that was unlike anything I ever imagined. I got a glass of water and started to drink, but it was difficult because I couldn't stop shaking and smiling and laughing. It was 4am and I was so alive, and awake for the first time, and that made it difficult to fall asleep.

I woke up this morning late for work and tired. But the calm was there, and the anxiousness inside was still gone. By the time I got there I was wide awake and ready to face the day. I did my job and took my lunch and just before I was supposed to go back to work one of the line leads noticed my week old stolen sunglasses. He didn't know they were stolen, but I did. One of his friends had told him about losing his sunglasses and he noticed that I was wearing them when I came back into the building after grabbing some McDonalds for lunch. He asked me where I got them, and I lied and said I found them lying on the ground, so I decided to keep them. They talked to me about it, and I lied through my teeth the entire time...I was a good liar. I went back to work, while the supervisors discussed what to do about it. Then, they escorted me off the premises and everything was as it should be.

Before the line lead approached me about the sunglasses, I thought about them. I thought that the right thing to do would be to give them back and hope for forgiveness, or at least drop them in the lost and found. But, I downplayed it. I told myself that it was just a pair of sunglasses, and it'd be ok if I just kept them and never stole from anyone again. Less than a minute later, I was busted and given the opportunity to tell the truth or lie. I decided to lie. God is mysterious, but this was purely logical. I learned a lesson that would have eluded me if left to my own devices. I walked to my car a happy man. I just got busted, fired, and my check was forgotten at the office so I had to drive all over the place to get it...but I was happy.

I'm sorry if this is long and incoherent. I still haven't been to sleep since I started this day. Just too much happening around me to sleep right now. If my words are confusing just tell me and I'll try to clarify it for you. Thank you for reading. And thank you for your replies. It's good to see that totse hasn't lost all of it's good posters.

quote:Originally posted by PerpetualBurn:



...Diazepam?

Generic valium...no, I'm on a high that doesn't die and fade away.

Interest and Aft3r ImaGe, I'm glad to see that two people can disagree about things and still respect each other. Seeing things like this gives me hope where previously there was despair. We all need to be able to talk and respect one another regardless of our perspective.

Thank you for your honesty guys.

Meh. I've felt the same you've felt. I've cried and bawled and prayed and did the whole "I'm not worthy, Jesus!" thing a few times in my life. It passes. 2-3 weeks from now, the feeling will have faded away. It's just a typical psychological high. No, I'm not talking out of my ass. I've gone to church camps/prayer meetings/youth groups full of people feeling the same shit you did. And yeah, I've felt it, too. And yeah, I feel pretty stupid about it now that I've gone off to university and studied philosophy, psychology, and a bit of religious history.

Yep. Reality is a bitch.

quote:Originally posted by Elephantitis Man:

Meh. I've felt the same you've felt. I've cried and bawled and prayed and did the whole "I'm not worthy, Jesus!" thing a few times in my life. It passes. 2-3 weeks from now, the feeling will have faded away. It's just a typical psychological high. No, I'm not talking out of my ass. I've gone to church camps/prayer meetings/youth groups full of people feeling the same shit you did. And yeah, I've felt it, too. And yeah, I feel pretty stupid about it now that I've gone off to university and studied philosophy, psychology, and a bit of religious history.

Yep. Reality is a bitch.

Hey! Well obviously it is blasphemous and absurd to worship an Idol, an Image, A Man: Jesus.

I've never believed in any of the Abrahamic gods; any god that belongs to a religion I am very doubtful of for, from research I've done, all religions generally turn out to be 99% likely man made.

As for whether there is a god or not, that's something I don't know and will maybe never know. I highly doubt there is one, but I'm not ruling it out and I see it pointless to worship something I know nothing about. God to me is an empty concept, a spook, maybe it is a being, but I don't care.

quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

Hey! Well obviously it is blasphemous and absurd to worship an Idol, an Image, A Man: Jesus.



One should be more careful of their accusations.

You are setting yourself to be the judge of others. How will you be if we began to judge you?





[This message has been edited by Interest (edited 08-27-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by HampTheToker:

Interest and Aft3r ImaGe, I'm glad to see that two people can disagree about things and still respect each other. Seeing things like this gives me hope where previously there was despair. We all need to be able to talk and respect one another regardless of our perspective.

Thank you for your honesty guys.



You're welcome,

I'm not beyond admitting my mistakes -

Your story is real and I appreciate it. Nobody can fake those words. I had pretty much the same revelations in my life. Just change the characters.

In Him..