I'm a muslim and not from USA. Sometimes when i watch films commercials etc on channels like MTV BBC or maybe CNN i always see that people pray to Virgin Mary, Holy Spirit and Jesus. Im wondering why Christians mostly pray to their prophets than their God. I know Jesus and his mother are superior to ordinary human beings but they re still human. I think that even if they hear ur prays they cant do anything becouse only God can answer ur calls.

Jesus is the son of God, so therefore, he has just as many powers as God. Also, he sacrificed himself to rid humanity of their sins, so he really is the Savior.

God sent Jesus to Earth, so we pray to what came (Jesus.) But really, in most prayers, we say "Father," or, "Lord," which is really vague, and could imply either or the two, (God or Jesus).

Many more people are holy in Catholicism than in some other religions.

[This message has been edited by Necrypsys (edited 08-26-2006).]

I think what you're missing is the fact that people don't pray to Mary/Saints to do things for them, but they ask them to pray for them as well. It's just like when someone falls ill and everyone says "I'll pray for them!" Same idea.

While some people probably do make the mistake of thinking that Mary could answer their wishes ( I'm not sure 'bout protestants, but catholics believe in the holy trinity so Jesus is part of God, thus he can answer prayer ), a lot of others simply pray to Mary, Joseph and the other saints for advice.

They are role models, who should be able to be trusted to give good advice on living your life well.

I like the way you phrased your question, most people just call others from different religions morons.

God is three persons: The Father, Son(Jesus), and the Holy Spirit. So when people pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit, they are not praying to prophets. Also, Christians believe Jesus to be both human and divine. People pray to Mary and certain saints for guidance or help. St. Joseph, for instance, is often prayed to for help selling a house.

Part of the Christian mythos includes "prayers of petition and intercession." They see God as a sort of super Santa Claus-- a being who decides who has been "naughty" and who has been "nice" and hands out rewards or punishments accordingly.

What they fail to realize is that we have already been given all we need.

Vecna, us Muslims believe that God has no son, daughter, wife, any family whatsoever, nobody with close to equivalent power as him. Keep that in mind from what these people are saying!

quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:

Part of the Christian mythos includes "prayers of petition and intercession." They see God as a sort of super Santa Claus-- a being who decides who has been "naughty" and who has been "nice" and hands out rewards or punishments accordingly.

What they fail to realize is that we have already been given all we need.

You often say right things, I wish you were a Muslim.

quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

You often say right things, I wish you were a Muslim.



What is he?

quote:Originally posted by anonymouslyaware:

What is he?

He seems to be a person who has spiritual ideas but I'm not sure that he subscribes to what is in the Qur'an or follows it.

quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

He seems to be a person who has spiritual ideas but I'm not sure that he subscribes to what is in the Qur'an or follows it.

I see, although being spiritual is different than being religious, so we can't really consider him religious...Which isn't a good thing, you should become Muslim!

quote:Originally posted by

Which isn't a good thing, you should become Muslim!

Becoming a Muslim isn't a good thing. You should become an apostate!

http://www.apostatesofislam.com/

quote:Originally posted by anonymouslyaware:

Vecna, us Muslims believe that God has no son, daughter, wife, any family whatsoever, nobody with close to equivalent power as him. Keep that in mind from what these people are saying!

It's not really that type of family. Mary was the woman who bore Jesus-the human incarnation of God. God didn't actually have sex with Mary. It's not that type of father-son relationship.

EDIT: It's really hard to understand different religions without actually being a member of the religion. An easy concept for a Christian can be hard to understand for a Muslim and vice versa.

[This message has been edited by psychedelicious (edited 08-27-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by psychedelicious:

It's not really that type of family. Mary was the woman who bore Jesus-the human incarnation of God. God didn't actually have sex with Mary. It's not that type of father-son relationship.

EDIT: It's really hard to understand different religions without actually being a member of the religion. An easy concept for a Christian can be hard to understand for a Muslim and vice versa.



Tell me what is more easy to swallow?

God is One but Three, A Triune/Trinity, consisting of three distinct aspects(Incarnations/Manifestations) of God, The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit. Jesus is the Son of God the Father, Jesus is also God's incarnation of Earth who died on the Cross to cleanse the sins of mankind, he was raised up 3 days later and ascended to his Father in Heaven who is also Jesus. The only way to Heaven is to believe that Jesus is your Lord and Savior, the Son of God who died for your sins! Also men are in the image of God.

OR

God is One, God is All Encompassing, Surrounding Everything, Closer to you than your jugular vein. God is not a man, nor is anything within God like unto God. God is no one's father and no one's son. God has no children and is far beyond the things some people claim of God. When you die you will be ressurected on the day of ressurection and judged for how you spent your life, everyone will be judged justly based on their conduct, those who did right and good will be rewarded, those who did wrong and bad will be punished reflective of their wrong or bad deeds. There is no intercession between man and God, but there is only direct communication, and no one can save you but yourself, by doing good deeds and believing in/worshipping God.

So what is more reasonable? The first or the second?

Let me give a shorter version, you tell me what is easier to understand:

God is One but with three distinct aspects/incarnations which include God The Father, God The Son in the form of Jesus, and the Holy Spirit

Vs

God is One, God is no one's father, God is no one's Son, God has no Children, God is encompassing and surrounding everything.

__________________________________________

The only way to heaven is the believe that Jesus is your Lord and Savior who died on the Cross for your Sins.

Vs.

The only way to achieve paradise is to believe in God, Worship God, and do Good works.

So which do you think is more easy to understand?

quote:Originally posted by Martini:

Becoming a Muslim isn't a good thing. You should become an apostate!

Why isn't becoming a Muslim a good thing?

A muslim is not supposed to drink alcohol or take intoxicants which fog the mind

A muslim believes that doing evil can earn hellfire in the afterlife and doing good is rewarded, thus are encouraged to do good and avoid doing wrong or bad deeds.

A muslim is required, if they can, to give charity and help the poor and needy whenever they are able or given the opportunity.

A muslim isn't allowed to shout or use foul language unless in urgent need.

A muslim isn't allowed to hit anyone unless in self defense.

A muslim isn't allowed to kill anyone unless in self defense.

A muslim is allowed to deny ties to their religion if put under compulsion to do so or in preserving themselves.

A muslim is required to find time in the day to connect with God, 5 times a day meditative excercise known as Salat, the times are before sunrise, noon, afternoon, after sunset, night, this is to bring a sense of peace throughout the day. The performance of Salat includes standing upright, bending, and prostrating thus it can be considered a form of Meditative Excercise.

A muslim is not allowed to start conflicts or wars.

muslim men and women are given the same laws and are equal, all human beings are considered equal the best of whom are the best in conduct.

So what about being a true muslim and following the Qur'an is bad?

Forgiveness is encourages as opposed to revenge, furthermore it constantly says that God will be the one to give justice on judgement day thus revenge does not need to be carried out but forgiveness is always better.

Islam promotes a healthy spiritual lifestyle in which one has a constant relationship with a God who is neared to them than their own jugular vein and ever present aware.

What in the Qur'an's prescriptions do you have to be averse from?



[This message has been edited by Abrahim (edited 08-28-2006).]

Well if Jesus was the human incarnation of God then i wonder why didnt Jesus told the people that he was actually God back then? Why didnt Jesus asked people to worship himself becouse he was God,only in the human form (as you say)

quote:Originally posted by Vecna999:

Well if Jesus was the human incarnation of God then i wonder why didnt Jesus told the people that he was actually God back then? Why didnt Jesus asked people to worship himself becouse he was God,only in the human form (as you say)

That is because Jesus was the Servant of God sent to give mankind the message of God. The word Pais in Greek is the word of Son and Servant, and the term "Son of God" has been bestowed on other Prophets in the Old Testament, it only means one who is close to God, a servant of God, but Paul caused the term to be deliberately misinterpreted it seems and it became to mean the literal son of God, who is also the incarnation of God...

The Trinity was decided at the Council of Nicea long after Jesus's death. The Council wanted to unite Christianity which had many sects, some believe Jesus was only a Prophet, some believed Jesus was the literal son of God but not God, some believe Jesus was only the metaphorical son of God and a Prophet, and there were many different beliefs until after the Council of Nicea where the Trinity was Decided...the Trinity states that God is One in three distinct incarnations, The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit, but all of them are still God.

Muslims believe that Jesus was a Muslim (One who has submitted to God) and was the Prophet of God.

Here are some quotes from the New Testament Bible:

"I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me." [John 5:30]

"For I have not spoken on my own initiative; but the Father Himself who sent me, has given me commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak." [John 12: 49]

"And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God." [Mark 10:18]

"And it came to pass in those days, that he went out into a mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God." [Luke 6:12]

"But no one knows of that day and hour, not even the angels of heaven, but my Father only" [Mathew 24:36]

"But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father" [Mark 13:32]

"And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord" [Mark 12:29]

"You are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God” [John 8:31]

"So Jesus answered them, 'My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me' " [John 7:16]

"Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. "All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me." Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.' " [NIV, Matthew 4:8-10]

"But I do not seek My glory; there is One who seeks and judges." [John 8:50]

"My Father is greater than I" [John 14:28]

(Exchange the word Father for Lord or Master and Son for Servant or Slave)

quote:Originally posted by Abrahim

A muslim believes that doing evil can earn hellfire in the afterlife and doing good is rewarded, thus are encouraged to do good and avoid doing wrong or bad deeds.

He also beleives that God gives the very unjust punisment of eternal hellfire and being forced to drink boiling water, for being incorrect about Islam. As unfair as that sounds, it gets worse. God tells beleivers not to bother warning the unbeleivers, because He has sealed their hearts and put a covering over their eyes. He takes away their light and leaves them in the darkness. In other words, unbeleivers have an unfair advantage to ever getting to heaven, because God takes away some of their free will to find out that Islam is the correct path. According to Allah, no nonbeliever should be warned to become Muslim, because He has made sure it will never happen. He was wrong. Nonbelievers have become Muslim and many times because a Muslim has warned them.

quote:Originally posted by Abrahim

A muslim isn't allowed to hit anyone unless in self defense.

The Quran shows that this obviously isn't true. You do know that the Quran says to beat your disobedient wife, don't you?



quote:Originally posted by Abrahim

A muslim isn't allowed to kill anyone unless in self defense.

Many, many Muslims would disagree with you.



quote:Originally posted by Abrahim

A muslim is not allowed to start conflicts or wars.

Again, many, many Muslims would disagree with you.



quote:Originally posted by Abrahim

muslim men and women are given the same laws and are equal

Absolutely false!

Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.



A woman's word is worth half a man's worth in court.

A man can divorce a woman by saying, "I divorce you" three times. It is much more difficult for a woman to divorce a man.

I can find many more examples of womens inequality in Islam, but I've got a busy day ahead of me.

quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

That is because Jesus was the Servant of God sent to give mankind the message of God. The word Pais in Greek is the word of Son and Servant, and the term "Son of God" has been bestowed on other Prophets in the Old Testament, it only means one who is close to God, a servant of God, but Paul caused the term to be deliberately misinterpreted it seems and it became to mean the literal son of God, who is also the incarnation of God...



   Remember, we're talking about Christianity here--not what Muslims believe about Jesus.

"http://www.penkatali.org/wife.html

Here is Ahmed Ali's translation of the passage in question:

As for women you feel are averse,

talk to them suasively;

then leave them alone in bed (without molesting them)

and go to bed with them (when they are willing).

This understanding is explained in this footnote to the verse:

For the three words fa-‘izu, wa-hjuru, and wa-dribu in the original, here translated 'talk to them suasively,' 'leave them alone (in bed—fi 'l-madaji‘),' and 'have intercourse,' respectively, see Raghib, Lisan al-‘Arab,and Zamakhshari. Raghib in his al-Mufradat fi gharib al-Qur’an gives the meanings of these words with special reference to this verse. ... Raghib points out that daraba metaphorically means to have intercourse, and quotes the expression daraba al-fahl al-naqah "the stud camel covered the she-camel," which is also quoted by Lisan al-‘Arab. It cannot be taken here to mean 'to strike them (women).' This view is strengthened by the Prophet's authentic hadith found in a number of authorities, including Bukhari and Muslim: "Could any of you beat your wife as he would a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?" There are other traditions in Abu Da’ud, Nasa’i, Ibn Majah, Ahmad ibn Hanbal, and others, to the effect that he forbade the beating of any woman, saying: "Never beat God's handmaidens."

The "idrib" stage in the process follows temporary separation of the spouses: notice how among the many meanings of the verb daraba, there are the meanings 'to separate' and 'to mingle'. The sense of separation relates back to the verb uhjur immediately preceding, while the senses of inclining towards, mingling, settling down, and having sex are looking ahead to the marital reconciliation (tawfîq) in the next verse. This is a good example of the extremely subtle, intricate intertwining of meanings in the Arabic words of the Qur’ân, which is lost in translation. The guidance in this verse is part of a process for reconciling marital problems. After the husband has made it clear to his wife what he expects of their relationship (and presumably the wife has made her thoughts on it clear to him, also), it's time to kiss and make up. See what beautiful guidance Allah is giving husbands and wives here. We know from other hadiths that encourage sacred sex in Islam that Allah is happy when husband and wife have sexual intercourse, and they are showered with spiritual blessings when they do."

Now you know I disagree with hadiths, but I do agree with this translation and the meaning of darb in this situation. The Qur'an elsewhere says not to hit people, or abuse people, or force people to do anything.

Quran 3:195 tells us :

"Their Lord responded to them: "I never fail to reward any worker among you for any work you do, be you MALE OR FEMALE, YOU ARE EQUAL TO ONE ANOTHER........."

The spiritual equality between men and women is reiterated in 4:124, as follows:

"As for those who lead a righteous life, MALE OR FEMALE. while believing, t hey enter Paradise; without the slightest injustice"

and again in 16:97:

" Anyone who works righteousness, MALE OR FEMALE, while believing, we will surely grant them a happy life in this world, and we will surely pay them their full recompense for their righteous works."

and yet again in 40:40,

[40:40] Whoever commits a sin is requited for just that, and whoever works righteousness - MALE OR FEMALE - while believing, these will enter Paradise wherein they receive provisions without any limits.

Also what you quote as meaning "excelling" or which seems to indicate that men are better than women is another mistranslation, it is saying instead that men and women are a "degrees apart" not that one is higher in degree to the other, but that they are different, though the law applies to them both equally and they are both equal, obviously men and women are not the same, there is an obvious difference, they are different by a degree (one has a penis, one has a vagina, one can have children etc etc etc, it only states the obvious).

009.071

YUSUFALI: The Believers, men and women, are protectors one of another: they enjoin what is just, and forbid what is evil: they observe regular prayers, practise regular charity, and obey Allah and His Messenger. On them will Allah pour His mercy: for Allah is Exalted in power, Wise.

SHAKIR: And (as for) the believing men and the believing women, they are guardians of each other; they enjoin good and forbid evil and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, and obey Allah and His Messenger; (as for) these, Allah will show mercy to them; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise.

The following could be translated as:

004.034

(Some)Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) As for women you feel are averse,

talk to them suasively;

then leave them alone in bed (without molesting them)

and go to bed with them (when they are willing).

The Qur'an as shown above the last quote in the other quotes says men and women are the protects/maintainers of each other as well. It also implies those who are more in means should take care of those who are less in means, and never states that a woman cannot posess property or be independant, rather it says that one should remain chaste until they can be financially independant or find a match, and this was a revelation applying to both men and women.

024.032

Marry those among you who are single, or the virtuous ones among yourselves, male or female: if they are in poverty, Allah will give them means out of His grace: for Allah encompasseth all, and he knoweth all things.

024.033

And let those who do not find the means to marry keep chaste until Allah makes them free from want out of His grace. And (as for) those who ask for a writing from among those of your servants, give them the writing if you know any good in them, and give them of the wealth of Allah which He has given you; and do not compel your servants to prostitution, when they desire to keep chaste, in order to seek the frail good of this world's life; and whoever compels them, then surely after their compulsion Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

[This message has been edited by Abrahim (edited 09-01-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Vecna999:

I'm a muslim and not from USA. Sometimes when i watch films commercials etc on channels like MTV BBC or maybe CNN i always see that people pray to Virgin Mary, Holy Spirit and Jesus. Im wondering why Christians mostly pray to their prophets than their God. I know Jesus and his mother are superior to ordinary human beings but they re still human. I think that even if they hear ur prays they cant do anything becouse only God can answer ur calls.



They're conduits between mortals and God. Because Mary and Jesus have a closer relationship to God some people (mostly Catholics) believe that God is more likely to hear them if they pray through an intermediary.

This was one of the disputes between Catholics and Protestants. Don't generalize.