Speaking from an atheistic standpoint, couldn't the human body do everything it's supposed to do without being aware?

Simply by reacting to interior and exterior stimuli.

We could be seen as ultra complex robots with ultra complex programming that instructs the body what to do and when in order to carry out its function.

Robots don't need awareness to fullfill there purpous so why do we?

Physically, humans are quite a pathetic animal. We are slow, weak, poorly balanced, and have no real natural defences.

The reason mankind has survived on the level it does is down to its highly developed brain. Our ability to create the shelter and defences we need is our strenght, and it comes from our intelligence.

Look at the difference between humans and chimps. Chimps are much less intelligent, and thus have developed much better balance and much greater strength than humans.

As far as awareness goes for survival, an amoeba is completely well adapted for survival and has no awareness at all. It just has to adapt other survival mechanisms.

A lower life form, like an amoeba, doesn't need awareness, because it multiplies through cell splitting and derives nutrition through osmosis without thought. We need awareness of our hunger to eat, of our horniness to have sex, of our future to build shelter, our coldness to protect us from hypothermia, etc. A robot doesn't need awareness because it is dependant upon us for survival.

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quote:Originally posted by Martini:

A lower life form, like an amoeba, doesn't need awareness, because it multiplies through cell splitting and derives nutrition through osmosis without thought. We need awareness of our hunger to eat, of our horniness to have sex, of our future to build shelter, our coldness to protect us from hypothermia, etc. A robot doesn't need awareness because it is dependant upon us for survival.

But suppose we programmed that robot with AI so that it could detect when it was running low on oil, when it needed to recharge its battery, and when it needed to repair certain parts. We also program it with the capabilities to do this things; change its own oil, recharge itself, and make minor repairs. It's quite possible build such a robot.

We function through similar means. Our body is equiped with sensors detecting when we need food, water, and rest. Now, you could say our programming is much, much more complex than the robot example above, but the fact remains that we are biologically programmed to perserve ourselves, those close to us, and to reproduce. Both our most basic desires and our most complex emotional responses are the result of chemical synapse activity in our brains.

And to the OP, the flaw in your argument is that such complex robots wouldn't have awareness. People equate "awareness" as though it is some sort of supernatural term in relation to a soul or some rubbish like that. Rather, being self-aware is merely realizing the veracity of one's own existance. If a robot was equipped with sensors to detect when its battery was running low, accompanied with the programming necessary to seek out a power source to recharge itself, it would have awareness. In having the ability to detect, and maintain a part of itself, it inherits responsibility for itself, a sense of "self-possession" (such a robot could easily refer to the battery inside it as its own, and realize that if its batter runs out, its system would shut down and it would no longer be able to function; programmed with this sense of self-preservation, a robot wouldn't desire such an "death").

So, robots that are controlled by others don't need awareness. Robots that control themselves need at least some form of it in order to adequately perseve theirselves. As such, we could be considered extremely complex, biological robots, our current programming a result of millions of years of competing codes and functions weeding each other out and developing through observation and experience of their surroundings.

I wonder what Rust's thoughts on the subject are...

Considering how few animals are actually as aware as humans are, this thread is redundant.

Tell me about the robot that programmed itself.

There isn't one.

quote:Originally posted by Elephantitis Man

But suppose we programmed that robot with AI so that it could detect when it was running low on oil, when it needed to recharge its battery, and when it needed to repair certain parts.

Then the robot would certainly be aware of itself in a few ways, but unless it was really advanced, wouldn't come close to the type of awareness that we have - compassion, empathy, jealousy, etc. If robots were ever designed with these human qualities, it's very possible that we might go to war with them just like in the movies.

Actually, I take it back. Being able to set something to recharge a battery or fill something with oil, isn't being aware of its self, even if our purpose in programming it to do that was for the robot itself. Actually being aware of yourself distinct from other selves is a much more highly developed function. I'm not saying having that function may not be possible for robots in the future, but awareness of self is much more than charging your own battery.

Survival is assured. The Universe is generally benign. And we domesticated primates do have autonomic nervous systems to take care of basic survival stuff like respiration, and digestion.

However, the purpose of our lives is not to merely survive, but to create ourselves--and indeed, our very reality-- and to express and declare who and what we are. Awareness is essential to this process.

quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

Tell me about the robot that programmed itself.

Interesting inquiry, but first, I feel a few things should be defined more thoroughly. These aren't necessarily Webster's definitions, but definitions I've coined for the discussion to ensure we're on the same page.

There is a difference between simply a robot, and artificial life. Robots take commands from a given controller (a human with a romote/control panel). Artificial life display automated behaviors based on how they are programmed. And the difference between Artificial life and Life is that Artificial life is man-made, constructed, not naturally occuring.

In that sense, there can't be a "robot that programmed itself". However with advanced enough AI, Artificial life could produce more Artificial life (or if you prefer to think of Artificial life as complex robots, you could have robots building robots). The thing is, initially, Artificial life would have to be (by its very definition) a product of man, not nature.

[This message has been edited by Elephantitis Man (edited 09-01-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by ---Beany---:

Speaking from an atheistic standpoint, couldn't the human body do everything it's supposed to do without being aware?

Simply by reacting to interior and exterior stimuli.

We could be seen as ultra complex robots with ultra complex programming that instructs the body what to do and when in order to carry out its function.

Robots don't need awareness to fullfill there purpous so why do we?



It simply isn't possible to possess intelligence without awareness because it's the brain's complexity that gives rise to both. If mankind achieves artificial human-like intelligence, you can be sure it will be self-aware. You can't have one without the other. So, your question is wrong, because robots, if you want them to be as intelligent as humans, DO need to be aware.