God, just read the bible. Probably the #2 reason I don't beileve in a christian god.

The death of one person is a tragedy, the death of a million is a statistic - joesph stalin

However I'm still debating with myself wheather or not there is a higher being. On one hand there is the big bang theroy, but how could the universe just be??? Discuss

quote:Originally posted by hypodermicjew:

God, just read the bible. Probably the #2 reason I don't beileve in a christian god.

The death of one person is a tragedy, the death of a million is a statistic - joesph stalin

However I'm still debating with myself wheather or not there is a higher being. On one hand there is the big bang theroy, but how could the universe just be??? Discuss



lol we have been discussing for a while now.

People choose to kill

to cause pain

The way that God helps is by aiding in the afterlife, not this one

We are trapped inside this universe in all dimensions including time. We have absolutely no way to probe outside of this universe. How the hell do you think we can even begin to explain why it's here? The big bang theory only tries to explain what happened from a moment after the bang to present, I don't think we'll ever have a theory to explain why our universe is here. You just have to have faith that it exists from the fact that you believe you live in it every day.

quote:Originally posted by Merlinman2005:

The way that God helps is by aiding in the afterlife, not this one

No, he fucks over most people in the afterlife as well. http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif)

quote:Originally posted by hypodermicjew:



However I'm still debating with myself wheather or not there is a higher being. On one hand there is the big bang theroy, but how could the universe just be??? Discuss



It's more likely that the Universe would "just be" than that God would "just be" and then create the Universe.

Probability mathematics rocks.

quote:Originally posted by PerpetualBurn:

It's more likely that the Universe would "just be" than that God would "just be" and then create the Universe.

Probability mathematics rocks.

I hate people who say that the only way to explain the universe, is if God created it. I've seen loads of threads started here, stating just that. It really pisses me off.

What you just said is so true. If people think the only way the universe could exsist, is if God created it, then there logic is seriously flawed!

They think that the universe would be much harder to start out on it's own, than God. Explain the logic behind that?!

God is supposed to be this great being that can do ANYTHING! Now logically wouldn't that have been harder to have started out, than a universe supposedly created by said being?

[This message has been edited by Source (edited 09-02-2006).]

God didn't start out, he was always there.

Obviously.

Basic probability maths demonstrates that you cannot increase a likelihood by introducing an extra layer of (im)probability.

That is to say, the probability of two events happening in conjunction is always less than the probabilities of the individual events.

It's more likely that the Universe would exist than that God AND the Universe would exist.

Fact.

quote:Originally posted by T-BagBikerStar:

W The big bang theory only tries to explain what happened from a moment after the bang to present, I don't think we'll ever have a theory to explain why our universe is here.

Wrong. It also explains how the bang might've occured. Here (http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mark_vuletic/vacuum.html) is a simple explanation of one way it might've happened.

quote:Originally posted by Niceguy:

God didn't start out, he was always there.

Obviously.

Obviously. http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Source:

I hate people who say that the only way to explain the universe, is if God created it. I've seen loads of threads started here, stating just that. It really pisses me off.

What you just said is so true. If people think the only way the universe could exsist, is if God created it, then there logic is seriously flawed!

They think that the universe would be much harder to start out on it's own, than God. Explain the logic behind that?!

God is supposed to be this great being that can do ANYTHING! Now logically wouldn't that have been harder to have started out, than a universe supposedly created by said being?



It is true, in my opinion, that the universes have always existed, expanding and collapsing over and over since forever.

That assumes that gravity is strong enough to pull the Universe back in on itself, which may well be true, but I don't think it's confirmed is it?

Is there a better physicist than me on the forum that can confirm it? I was under the impression that the idea of reaching a steady state, or continual expansion hadn't been ruled out.

quote:Originally posted by PerpetualBurn:

Basic probability maths demonstrates that you cannot increase a likelihood by introducing an extra layer of (im)probability.

That is to say, the probability of two events happening in conjunction is always less than the probabilities of the individual events.

It's more likely that the Universe would exist than that God AND the Universe would exist.

Fact.

Well it might be more LIKELY to be true, but that doesn't make it 100% truth.

Saying that god doesn't exist because of that is rather ignorant.

quote:Originally posted by general sbs:

Well it might be more LIKELY to be true, but that doesn't make it 100% truth.

Saying that god doesn't exist because of that is rather ignorant.

Denieing logic is ignorant.

quote:Originally posted by general sbs:

Well it might be more LIKELY to be true, but that doesn't make it 100% truth.

Saying that god doesn't exist because of that is rather ignorant.

Well sure, I completely negated any reason to believe in God since it's very unlikely, but why don't you just bathe in your own stupidity for a while and call me ignorant?

Yep, that's it. That's the one.

First of all, no one really "dies." Life is eternal.

What we call "death" is merely a change of states, or vibratory levels.

quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:

First of all, no one really "dies." Life is eternal.

What we call "death" is merely a change of states, or vibratory levels.

AM, what you are stating ^ raises more questions than it answers; in reading it they flood my mind, here's a few:

What dies? First Law of Thermodynamics: energy is never lost, simply changes 'form', when one dies no energy is lost, what dies?

Where does the energy go? If it were possible to calculate the sum total of energy in the body at the point of death(e=mc2?) and track every quanta of it, where does it go?

Law of entropy? Constant dissipation?

Could some of that energy once more become a part of a living human body? Would that be a form of reincarnation/rebirth? Would there be some imprint on the dna somehow that passed along the characteristics that make me, err ... 'me', whatever that is? Could it be an energy 'bubble' like in Darwinian Reincarnation where the theory is the human brain has evolved to transmit a certain amount of information in an energy form that is able to be received by a similar brain as long as it was tuned in? Is there a benefit to evolution that would cause such a capability to evolve? Like the information gathered in one incarnation being transmitted to the next,(perhaps info only - not personality or character) in an evolutionary sense giving the human race a better headstart for each generation?

Would that new incarnation be 'me'(whatever that is?), or would it be like the 'me' I was as a baby, a toddler, a child, a teenager, something remembered but no longer 'real'?

Is our physical being the result of the state of vibration of an entity/soul that gathers or loses energy to it's 'energetic' environment? Would it be possible to gather such powerful energies that one's vibration would never appear in a physical form? Like a gas that's invisible until it's heat energy is lowered to the point it condenses into liquid, then freezes into a solid? Would that serve as an analogy? The energies one gathers in each life being the cause leading to the rate of vibration of the energy forms taken by the energy departing from the corpse, karmically determining the afterlife state? High vibrations remaining in a plane of higher vibrations that, like the gas, are not visible to beings at lower states of vibration/being?

Don't expect answers to all that, some would be good http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif), some would say we'll find out about death and afterlife states soon enough, live for today, live now! Sounds appealing 'imagine',like John Lennon asks: "imagine living for today"

http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

quote:Originally posted by hypodermicjew:

God, just read the bible. Probably the #2 reason I don't beileve in a christian god.

The death of one person is a tragedy, the death of a million is a statistic - joesph stalin

However I'm still debating with myself wheather or not there is a higher being. On one hand there is the big bang theroy, but how could the universe just be??? Discuss



Could the universe be because it has to, due to the fact - there cannot be nothing? Is this sufficient cause?

Stephen Hawkings was amongst the brilliant minds that formulated the big bang theory, now he argues against it citing Einsteins work and the curvature of the space-time continuum (as I understand it from reading "A Brief History Of Time").

He gives the example of the effect of the curvature of space-time as to the experience of travellers who circumnavigate earth to arrive back where they started. On the journey the travellers would experience their immediate life in what would appear mostly straight lines, so it would appear to the senses as a constant plane in one direction. Thus if one could travel the space-time continuum across the universe, it's curvature would have a similar effect and one would return back to the point one had started even though it appears we are travelling in one direction. So it appears we are travelling in one direction, in time. According to this theory, one would eventually end up back at the starting point.

In other words there is no need of a beginning or an ending and that fits the evidence of our environment and observation much better than a big bang where we have to suppose nonsense. Absolute nothing cannot and does not exist, something does not, cannot, come from nothing. Something exists, we know this, we are able to observe this. Where does this something come from needs no answer other than the impossibility of 'nothingness'. Is this a paradox? The cause of all existence being not a cause at all simply the way it must be? There cannot be nothing, so there must be something? The universe/existence 'is' because there is no alternative?

http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

[This message has been edited by redzed (edited 09-24-2006).]