From the information I've gathered you have to accept jesus as your savior to ascend to heaven, What about people who had know way of hearing this message like people on the americas before european colonization?

They go to hell. Really.

According to the bible, it is so obvious that Jesus is our Lord and Savior, that even if they haven't heard of him, and even if they didn't have means of reading the bible or acquiring knowledge of his teachings... it's still their fault.

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

They go to hell. Really.

According to the bible, it is so obvious that Jesus is our Lord and Savior, that even if they haven't heard of him, and even if they didn't have means of reading the bible or acquiring knowledge of his teachings... it's still their fault.

And they say it's a loving god

[This message has been edited by tatari gami (edited 09-08-2006).]

Well to be fair, there are others who are less strict and believe that those without knowledge would be cut some slack, however, they will still be judged.

"18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known of God is revealed in them, for God revealed it to them.

20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse."

Romans 1: 18-20

I'm pretty sure that hell in Christianity is not considered completely eternal. Most Christians I have spoken to believe that hell is for a long time and then eventually people are forgiven.

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

Well to be fair, there are others who are less strict and believe that those without knowledge would be cut some slack, however, they will still be judged.

"18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known of God is revealed in them, for God revealed it to them.

20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse."

Romans 1: 18-20

Its a sad state of affairs really. But there are still very few people that live their lives without hearing about Jesus at least once.

The judgement handed out at the end of time for those not saved is based on your deeds. I.E. Hitler is going to get a far worse punishment than Willy the unbeliever who helps rehabilitate disabled children...

I wont say one way or the other about those who have genuinely never heard the gospel, since I actually dont have a direct answer.

quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

I'm pretty sure that hell in Christianity is not considered completely eternal. Most Christians I have spoken to believe that hell is for a long time and then eventually people are forgiven.



If they believe that then they aren't Christian.

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

They go to hell. Really.

According to the bible, it is so obvious that Jesus is our Lord and Savior, that even if they haven't heard of him, and even if they didn't have means of reading the bible or acquiring knowledge of his teachings... it's still their fault.

I've always found those verses interesting... I've asked Christians if the existance of God is so clear, why send missionaries? Why tell anyone, actually - plainly, we should be able to come to God even without the Bible.

quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

I'm pretty sure that hell in Christianity is not considered completely eternal. Most Christians I have spoken to believe that hell is for a long time and then eventually people are forgiven.

This isn't a Biblical belief. All of the really devout Christians I've met and talked with say it is eternal, and this is supported by the Bible. There's no way around it except denying the accuracy of the Bible.

Revelations is one of the few books in the bible I haven't actually read thoroughly (which is odd considering its one of the best), but I was under the impression that heaven was reserved for the tribes of Israel. So really, we all be fucked anyway.

quote:Originally posted by Twiggy:

Revelations is one of the few books in the bible I haven't actually read thoroughly (which is odd considering its one of the best), but I was under the impression that heaven was reserved for the tribes of Israel. So really, we all be fucked anyway.

It says only 144,000 people will make it to the "kingdom of heaven", if I recall correctly. Coulda been 14,400 though.

Allegedly...

Christ was a vagabond who owned just the rags on his back. The rich man asked how to get to into Heaven, and he told him [paraphrase] "Sell all of your belongings, give them to the needy, and live poor like me." So how to get into Heaven? Be a dirt-poor philanthropist who spends all of his/her energies/ little monies tending to the needy.

Now, let's get real about this. Today, if anyone someone lived like Jesus, the cops would throw them in the slammer for vagrancy. Since they were dirt-poor and insisted upon remaining that way, they'd be lucky to stay alive living on the streets, and almost nobody would even want to listen to him/her because they weren't "respectable." Even if you live like the lower (maybe) 50% of Americans... you have a (roughly) minimum wage job which barely pays for a shared apartment and maybe a junk car... you still aren't being Christian. Went to a movie last weekend? Hey, dude, you could have fed a few people with that cash! Own a computer (like the one you're using to read this?) Sell it and give the cash to the poor.

Stop kidding yourself- there are no real Christians and if there were such a God, we'd all be royally screwed (just a matter of how bad.) Any "real Christians" in this age and place (the USA circa the year 2000) must be eating out of dumpsters and living like essentially "bears in the woods." Sorry, homie, far as I can see, even as such applies to the "nicer" (less-mercenary) claimed "Christians" out there, it's still all just talk. In a lot of cases, not just hypocritical talk, absurdly hypocritical talk.

quote:Originally posted by tatari gami:

From the information I've gathered you have to accept jesus as your savior to ascend to heaven, What about people who had know way of hearing this message like people on the americas before european colonization?

The Word says, we should be able to look around and know that there is one God.

Honestly that isn't going to happen. The Word says the message would have been spread all over the world, before he returns. It's OUR jobs (as Christians) to pray that the Lord of the harvest thrusts out labourers, and it's our Job (as Christians comissioned by Christ) to GO out into the WORLD and preach the Gospel. That's the vision in my heart. The nations. I pray I may someday, be sent to China, by the Spirit of God, to proclaim the glorious gospel of Christ to them, in their streets.