why does it seem that most main-stream religions condemn the use of drugs. christians obviosul have no problem with alcohol, but don't approve of other drugs.

i don't know much about the koran or the hindu or buddhist sacred writings, but i have yet to find a passage in the bible condemning drugs.

oh yeah and i just remembered hearing that in hinduism (i think) marijuana is a gift from Shiva(?)

Christianity, more or less, was created in unison with modern civil government, to control people, whereas Buddhism was created to "free the mind," and "expand consciousness," which was done either by heavy meditation, or heavy drug use.

And... it's the work of the devil! http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

I'm Christian, but I'm not really religious. I also do drugs. My parents only take me to church like maybe a couple of times a year, just so I can confess my sins.

I would usually confess almost everything that I could remember, except for drugs. I'm not really sure if doing drugs is a sin or isn't, because it doesn't really say in the bible, but everyone at church says its a sin to do drugs.

So I don't really know.. Is using drugs a sin or no?

i use them spiritually...but, i guess my beliefs are not mainstream.

definatly not in this forum. my threads keep bombing.

Entheogen comes from the Greek words "entheos" meaning "God within" and "genesthai" meaning "to cause to be" - "creating the divine within".

Not to mention psychedelic means "soul revealing".

Well if its not in the bible then you can do it. so if some asshole tells you otherwise hes making up a bunch of shit and is being a fuckin hypocrit.

This is a christian answer to your question: http://www.gotquestions.org/sin-drugs.html I'm sure theres something in the bible to contradict that though.

This theory suggests that Jesus smoked cannabis http://cannabis.net/articles/jesus-cannabis.html

Also, here's a theory which suggests that the manna which the israelites ate was in fact magic mushrooms http://leda.lycaeum.org/?ID=10494

This site provides information about drugs in relation to every major religion. http://www.sortingitout.org.uk/world.htm

quote:Originally posted by Necrypsys:

Christianity, more or less, was created in unison with modern civil government, to control people, whereas Buddhism was created to "free the mind," and "expand consciousness," which was done either by heavy meditation, or heavy drug use.

And... it's the work of the devil! http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

Buddhism doesn't approve of any mindaltering substances.

in christianity your body is a temple, and you are supposed to obey all laws that to not contradict the laws of the bible. that's why it's a sin to smoke weed, but not a sin to drink a little in most denominations.

quote:Originally posted by kenwih:

in christianity your body is a temple, and you are supposed to obey all laws that to not contradict the laws of the bible. that's why it's a sin to smoke weed, but not a sin to drink a little in most denominations.

that dosnt make sence...alcohol is a toxin. The only reason it does not kill you is because most drinks have a small amount of it in them...but being drunk isnt a drug induced state, its feeling poisoned, by this paticular poison.

which is why i never drink. ever.

marijuana hasnt showen to harm the body at all, or showen any addiction potential. And dont bring up psycological dependancy, because all that means is its somthing people like to repeat. Such as eating ice cream, or cashews.

so its use actually would obey the rules from the bible, and not be a sin.

quote:Originally posted by Obbe:



marijuana hasnt shown to harm the body at all,

One word. Lungs

quote:Originally posted by piewalker101:

Originally posted by Obbe:



marijuana hasnt shown to harm the body at all,

One word. Lungs

one fact: no case lung cancer has ever been tracked back to marijuana. never ever.

also, marijuana smoke is not like cigaratte smoke. it dosnt clog your lungs.

yes but inhaling smoke, be it from a cigarette, a joint, or a campfire is still unhealthy

quote:Originally posted by nametag:

yes but inhaling smoke, be it from a cigarette, a joint, or a campfire is still unhealthy

inhaling in general, is unhealthy. it oxidises you. a kind of rusting. its called age. you get old because you breath.

but it's against the law (in most of the states anyway) to use marijuana without a prescription or something, and it does say to follow the law, in the bible, but I can't remember the verse

yes but if you took two people, one in a room full of smoking fires and the other in a room of clean air i can safely say that the one in the room with clean air would live much longer. the fact that breathing at all has a detrimental effect doesnt change the fact that the detriment associated with inhaling smoke is much worse.

drinking in moderation, which is accepted by society and most christian denominations, is actually good for you.

because im sure they were talking about corrupt government conspiracies when it was written. seriously, marijuana was not illegal back then.

and the whole reason it is illegal, is a conspiracy. but will we ever know what they ment? who knows.

at one time, eating meat on a sunday was a hell worthy sin...

quote:Originally posted by nametag:

yes but if you took two people, one in a room full of smoking fires and the other in a room of clean air i can safely say that the one in the room with clean air would live much longer. the fact that breathing at all has a detrimental effect doesnt change the fact that the detriment associated with inhaling smoke is much worse.

the bible still says to not harm your body. breathing hurts your body. daylight gives you skin cancer. crossing streets has the danger of being hit by a car.

marijuans smoke does irritate the lungs, therefore one may assum it is bad, but there isn't any long term damage. and there is a theory that moses was on mushrooms when he saw the buring bush.

quote:Originally posted by Obbe:

inhaling in general, is unhealthy. it oxidises you. a kind of rusting. its called age. you get old because you breath.

nope. when you light something on fire, and inhale, you are inhaling a substance called tar(this happens even when a leaf is burnt) and it will hurt your lungs.

the reason you age is because your cells stop dividing. and that happens because each time your cells divide, the ends of DNA fall off. eventually the cell cannot divide any more or it will compromise the DNA. thus it stops and you start running on dead cells and you die.

Rastafarians use marijuana spiritually, Buddhism says to refrain from drugs that cause poor judgement if you’re following the eight fold path, and Christianity says not to get drunk but says nothing about any other drugs. The reason Christians are against drugs is because the bible says to follow the law of state unquestionably, which modern Christians take a little too literally - Jesus Christ was in no way a political revolutionary figure, he was about insurrection - and therefore claim all drug use to be evil and wrong. As for the rest of the religions, I don’t know enough about them.

quote:Originally posted by Obbe:

the bible still says to not harm your body. breathing hurts your body. daylight gives you skin cancer. crossing streets has the danger of being hit by a car.

This is daft. Not breathing hurts you more. Without sunlight you would get rickets. As for getting hit by a car, unless you're crossing stupidly, it's not your fault.

Now I smoke cannabis too, but at least I know the dangers and you cannot possibly say that inhaling smoke is just as healthy as breathing air...

quote:Originally posted by piewalker101:

Originally posted by Obbe:

the bible still says to not harm your body. breathing hurts your body. daylight gives you skin cancer. crossing streets has the danger of being hit by a car.

This is daft. Not breathing hurts you more. Without sunlight you would get rickets. As for getting hit by a car, unless you're crossing stupidly, it's not your fault.

Now I smoke cannabis too, but at least I know the dangers and you cannot possibly say that inhaling smoke is just as healthy as breathing air...

thats not what im saying. what im saying is, dont take the bible to heart. be happy, and dont worry.

quote:Originally posted by Graemy:

nope. when you light something on fire, and inhale, you are inhaling a substance called tar(this happens even when a leaf is burnt) and it will hurt your lungs.

the reason you age is because your cells stop dividing. and that happens because each time your cells divide, the ends of DNA fall off. eventually the cell cannot divide any more or it will compromise the DNA. thus it stops and you start running on dead cells and you die.

i've actually heard both contribute. look it up.

edit- about tar: as i've said before (i think, im stoned), marijuana smoke is not like cig smoke. the reason cig smoke hurts you, is because the tar gets deposeted in your lungs. this tar contains a certain lead, which over long periods of time, eventually causes cancer(this is the most popular theory).

Marijuana neither

a)stays in your lungs. in fact, it clears your lungs of other pollutants, such as ciggarette tar, dust, other smoke...which is why SMOKERS cough so much when they TOKE.

b)contains the evil cancer causing lead, much less 'carcinogens' as cigs, or as much tar. One study suggested it containted as much as 5 times as much...however, this study was done on the entire plant. A new study, based soley on the buds, found it contained a 3rd as much tar.

prehaps a very, very, very heavy toker could accumulate harmful amounts of tar, over time. But to most casual tokers, no, in the same way casual drinks dont get liver disease. and they would never get lung cancer, especially since THC counters that.

that said, how to catholic, or christian, or whoever we're talking abouts church feel about cigs? and alcohol, a much more harmful drug then marijuana is condoned? it sounds like someones rubbing feet with the government.

my town is going to make public smoking illegal in a few years. would that mean its a sin for those religous smokers out there in my town?

[This message has been edited by Obbe (edited 09-12-2006).]

Doesn't it say somewhere (Genesis maybe?) that God created all the animals, birds, plants and herbs for man to use as he sees fit?

quote:Originally posted by Betrayal:

I'm Christian, but I'm not really religious. I also do drugs. My parents only take me to church like maybe a couple of times a year, just so I can confess my sins.

I would usually confess almost everything that I could remember, except for drugs. I'm not really sure if doing drugs is a sin or isn't, because it doesn't really say in the bible, but everyone at church says its a sin to do drugs.

So I don't really know.. Is using drugs a sin or no?

your fuckin retarted, and the drugs surely aren't helping. Prove to me that I have sinned because i lied, or stole...fuck that, prove to me that sin exists. What is a sin?

no obbe, when anything burns it generates tar. when my mom was young a regular old bush caught fire and she inhaled alot of the smoke, this gave her alot of tar in her system and she had to take steroids to recover.

quote:Originally posted by Graemy:

no obbe, when anything burns it generates tar. when my mom was young a regular old bush caught fire and she inhaled alot of the smoke, this gave her alot of tar in her system and she had to take steroids to recover.

i never said it didnt, graemy. re-read my post. or i'll type it out again...POT smoke, isnt CIGGARETTE smoke. and i dont mean it dosnt make tar...i mean in the way it acts. So, not only is it only 1/3rd of that level of tar in the first place, but much less of it will stay in your lungs...

different plants are different...and not everything will produce tar, only carbon based lifeforms. rocks, will not.

Western and usually eastern religions have never viewed psychedelic substance use as tradition, unlike in places such as south America where Ayahuasca has been used by shamans, and the ordinary people for thousands of years.

Drugs are ingrained in human society, whether we admit it or not. Buddhism regards using drugs as deviating from a path which is harder, and maybe more painful, but more rewarding over all, I guess they viewed many substances (alcohol, opiates etc) as clouding the mind, and stopping the individual from working on inner harmony.

In the west (Europe), it's more of a fact we used alcohol as our drug of choice for thousands of years, despite the presence of magic mushrooms etc, which were most certainly used by the druids, and the many other "pagan" faiths that were around before the concept of the monotheistic God took over.

Drugs are also "bad" for you in some senses of the word, there can be a fine line between "sanity" and "insanity", "dose" and "overdose", and for social survival religion has naturally discouraged the widespread use of drugs, in heirachical societies. I guess you can also say there is the power aspect, those at the top have never been particularly keen on those at the bottom finding "infinite knowledge" within themselves, and deciding they don't need the religious structure, only individual faith.

Meh, that's my take on it, it's a very complicated issue.

quote:Originally posted by Obbe:

that dosnt make sence...alcohol is a toxin. The only reason it does not kill you is because most drinks have a small amount of it in them...but being drunk isnt a drug induced state, its feeling poisoned, by this paticular poison.

At the time the bible was written there really were no safe alternatives to alcoholic beverages if you wanted to drink something. Basicly if you don't live in Developed parts of North America you should not drink the water even today. Bottled water from Europe originated out of necesity not to rip people off.

And all drugs are toxic are toxic to some degree. Some definitions of toxin or poisen are any substance that interfers with biological proceses.

quote:Originally posted by MasterPython:

At the time the bible was written there really were no safe alternatives to alcoholic beverages if you wanted to drink something. Basicly if you don't live in Developed parts of North America you should not drink the water even today. Bottled water from Europe originated out of necesity not to rip people off.

And all drugs are toxic are toxic to some degree. Some definitions of toxin or poisen are any substance that interfers with biological proceses.

so people couldnt distill water in the same manner they distilled alcohol? right...because, you know, thats the only way it would be safe to drink. if its just plain old wine, it could have been evern dirtier then the water, with rotting yeasts.

and yeah, ANYTHING will be toxic if you have enough of it, from heroin to marshmellows. but alcohol is somthing the scientific community refers to as toxic. in a class of chemicals called toxins. marijuana is not in that class, nor has it ever killed anyone.

quote:Originally posted by Obbe:

if its just plain old wine, it could have been evern dirtier then the water, with rotting yeasts.



If wine or beer is bad you know it before you swallow the first sip. The alcohol will kill almost anything making the booze safe to drink even if it was made with water full of paricites. Untill we knew the mechanism for disease this was the only thing that was always safe to drink. People were plastered all the time for that reason.

quote:Originally posted by MasterPython:

If wine or beer is bad you know it before you swallow the first sip. The alcohol will kill almost anything making the booze safe to drink even if it was made with water full of paricites. Untill we knew the mechanism for disease this was the only thing that was always safe to drink. People were plastered all the time for that reason.

well ya got me there. dosnt make alcahol good for you though, or explain why marijuana smoking is a sin. even though i've tried to explain how that itself is a nearly harmless activity, i've been forced to bring up my other arguments.

vapourizing, and eating cannabis.

also, is anyone going to answer my question, about what the religous community will have to say on smoking, once it is illegal in my city?

[This message has been edited by Obbe (edited 09-14-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Obbe:

well ya got me there. dosnt make alcahol good for you though, or explain why marijuana smoking is a sin.

It is a sin because it is illegal. Christianity you are suposed to follow the laws unless doing so would be a sin(Give to Ceasar what is Ceasar's). It is illegal because it would be nearly imposible to tax.

[This message has been edited by MasterPython (edited 09-14-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by MasterPython:

It is a sin because it is illegal. Christianity you are suposed to follow the laws unless doing so would be a sin(Give to Ceasar what is Ceasar's). It is illegal because it would be nearly imposible to tax.



???

have you ever heard of the marijuana tax act?

its already taxed. just nobody pays, because its illegal. i guess thats a double answer, and pretty clearly states what my city's religious communities will think about smoking after the 2008 smoking ban.



edit - this argument will go on forever, untill marijuana becomes legal again. which is unlikly, since it was a conspiracy to begin with, and if you've ever heard the nixxon tapes...to me, it being illegal isnt an issue, because its an unjust law.

is it a sin for americans to travel to cuba?

anyways, i've laid out my case as much as i can, or at least want to. my opinion on the matter, is that its not a sin, in any religion. And only taught as one, in the religons rusting up with dogma.

[This message has been edited by Obbe (edited 09-14-2006).]

YOU ARE ALL FULL OF SHIT!

Drugs are only a sin when you are having fun.

The only time you are supposed to have fun is when you are paying taxes.

quote:Originally posted by kenwih:

YOU ARE ALL FULL OF SHIT!

no, im not. its actually a trick, so when they bust large grow ops, they can tag them for tax evasion too.

quote:Originally posted by Obbe:

have you ever heard of the marijuana tax act?

its already taxed. just nobody pays, because its illegal. i guess thats a double answer, and pretty clearly states what my city's religious communities will think about smoking after the 2008 smoking ban.

The law was rule uncostitutional a long time ago. And the US federal government never made any effort to collect the tax, no tax stamps were ever printed. It would be imposible to tax it the same way they do tobbaco and alcohol because it can grow anywhere and small quantities are valuable.

And if it is a sin to prop up a communist dictatorship by giving it money then going to Cuba is a sin.

quote:Originally posted by MasterPython:

The law was rule uncostitutional a long time ago. And the US federal government never made any effort to collect the tax, no tax stamps were ever printed. It would be imposible to tax it the same way they do tobbaco and alcohol because it can grow anywhere and small quantities are valuable.

And if it is a sin to prop up a communist dictatorship by giving it money then going to Cuba is a sin.

man. im sure glad im not christen. or catholic....or whatever it was. and yeah, i agree that if it were legal everyone would jsut grow. i was only pointing the law out. didnt know they ruled it out.

quote:Originally posted by vehicular mansLAUGHTER:

oh yeah and i just remembered hearing that in hinduism (i think) marijuana is a gift from Shiva(?)

Hence the slang name Cheeba. Hahaha.

quote:Originally posted by piewalker101:

One word. Lungs

Go into fuckin taco bell and tell me that fat lady with the huge ass drum stick ain't sinning.

then when you are done with that you should go smoke a cigarette....which can't harm your lungs nearly as bad as mj.......or maybe you should smoke a whole pack...because that is what alot christians do over the course of the day....

tell me....does the average weed smoker smoke a whole pack of cigarettes a day worth of weed?.....nope

in reality pot smokers smoke approx 1 cig worth of weed a day....

i wish they did a study on people who only smoke weed....because the cig smokers really fuck that statistic up....

[This message has been edited by whitelightning (edited 09-16-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by kenwih:

drinking in moderation, which is accepted by society and most christian denominations, is actually good for you.

yep and we all love to drink in moderation...

quote:Originally posted by Graemy:

nope. when you light something on fire, and inhale, you are inhaling a substance called tar(this happens even when a leaf is burnt) and it will hurt your lungs.

the reason you age is because your cells stop dividing. and that happens because each time your cells divide, the ends of DNA fall off. eventually the cell cannot divide any more or it will compromise the DNA. thus it stops and you start running on dead cells and you die.

you start to age the day you are born...

not like a week before you die.....

kinda like a toy car right?....the battery starts to die....then it dies and the toy starts running on dead batteries...then the toy dies.

quote:Originally posted by kenwih:

YOU ARE ALL FULL OF SHIT!



what do you mean by all...

do you mean all the people who posted in this thread?

or all of the people that are currently alive?

either way you are full of shit.hypocrite.

p.s. it is already implied that i am full of shit so that does not make me a hypocrite.

quote:Originally posted by whitelightning:

you start to age the day you are born...

not like a week before you die.....

kinda like a toy car right?....the battery starts to die....then it dies and the toy starts running on dead batteries...then the toy dies.

when you are born your cells are already dividing and losing the ends of DNA. however there is an enzyme which restores the ends to allow for rapid division. the enzyme will become inactive after a year or so and that is when you really start to age.

exactly like a battery.

well it would make sense that in any monotheistic religion that drug use is bad, simply because you are putting chemicals in your body that "god" obviously didnt want there or else it would be in your natural brain chemistry.

quote:Originally posted by whitelightning:

Go into fuckin taco bell and tell me that fat lady with the huge ass drum stick ain't sinning.

then when you are done with that you should go smoke a cigarette....which can't harm your lungs nearly as bad as mj.......or maybe you should smoke a whole pack...because that is what alot christians do over the course of the day....

tell me....does the average weed smoker smoke a whole pack of cigarettes a day worth of weed?.....nope

in reality pot smokers smoke approx 1 cig worth of weed a day....

i wish they did a study on people who only smoke weed....because the cig smokers really fuck that statistic up....



no offence, but they did. and mj does harm you less. look for 'on being stoned'. and look some shit up on erowid.

quote:Originally posted by BlackAndWhite:

well it would make sense that in any monotheistic religion that drug use is bad, simply because you are putting chemicals in your body that "god" obviously didnt want there or else it would be in your natural brain chemistry.

chemicals in drugs only work because your brain has the natural receptor sites for them. THC acts for a similar chemical, that is only released when a human experiances zero gravity. yes, astronuats....er...i cant spell that. but yeah, they get high, jsut floating around.

and you contaian a very high does of DMT in you head. it gets released when you die.

if "god" didnt want people using them, then why would 'he' have made the MOST useful plant, which was one of mans main resources untill marijuana propaganda, produce THC?

as for other drugs, it depends on the drug. i classify drugs under 2 categorys:

-selfish drugs (negative, mind narrowing)

-entheogens, used properly (positive, mind expanding)

the first ones are bad for indivduals and society when abused, but have some practical use.

but as far as drugs go, i belive it all depends on your intention. even if you were using a good drug, if for the wrong intentions, you would be wrong, and produce negative energy.

quote:Originally posted by piewalker101:

One word. Lungs

Cigarrettes kill more people than marijuana, nor is marijuana addictive.