I've been reading a lot of Eastern philosophy for the last couple of days, and Buddhism is the philosophy/religion that I find the most interesting.

Whereas I agree with Buddhism’s diagnosis of the human condition as suffering, I believe its solution to be purely escapism; I want to see what happens if one embraces the human condition, embraces suffering.

What are your thoughts on Buddhism?

[This message has been edited by Raw_Power (edited 09-11-2006).]

It's an indian religion, which explains its inherent sophistication over western religions, but it didn't really catch on in india...

quote:Originally posted by Raw_Power:

I've been reading a lot of Eastern philosophy for the last couple of days, and Buddhism is the philosophy/religion that I find the most interesting.

Whereas I agree with Buddhism’s diagnosis of the human condition as suffering, I believe its solution to be purely escapism; I want to see what happens if one embraces the human condition, embraces suffering.

What are your thoughts on Buddhism?



I personally feel it takes a level of actual deep realization and meditation to understand where Buddha was coming from, and that until one reaches that level, it would be more speculation.

In other words, I think those who find buddhism to hit the nail right on the head somewhere too real to ignore, found it, by not searching for it.

I wasn't searching for it. I was reading on Marin Heidegger, and I read that he was influenced by Buddhism and Taoism, so I read up on them to get a better idea of where he was coming from and I thought "damn, Buddha sees the world exactly how I do" but then I read about the eightfold path and Karma, and thought it was just escapism, because, to quote Nietzsche, 'suffering maketh the man'.

quote:Originally posted by Raw_Power:

I wasn't searching for it. I was reading on Marin Heidegger, and I read that he was influenced by Buddhism and Taoism, so I read up on them to get a better idea of where he was coming from and I thought "damn, Buddha sees the world exactly how I do" but then I read about the eightfold path and Karma, and thought it was just escapism, because, to quote Nietzsche, 'suffering maketh the man'.

Nietzsche is an asshole. Hedonism kicks ass.... erhm, ascetism. *starts meditating*

quote:Originally posted by Raw_Power:

I wasn't searching for it. I was reading on Marin Heidegger, and I read that he was influenced by Buddhism and Taoism, so I read up on them to get a better idea of where he was coming from and I thought "damn, Buddha sees the world exactly how I do" but then I read about the eightfold path and Karma, and thought it was just escapism, because, to quote Nietzsche, 'suffering maketh the man'.

How would you know if you haven't tried it? Suffering does not make you who you are, nothing makes you who you are you just are who you are. Suffering comes from the fact that you start beliving that you are the things that you think you need... the mind, drugs, sex, whatever cravings. The fact that you resist everything the buddha says but breaking your cravings proves the buddha right, and you will find that suffering comes. Note i'm not saying that bad things will stop happening to you and that you will have eternal happiness or that you'll always be free of problems if you start practicing buddhism... you'll just stop suffering when you do become enlightened; there will always be peace and a control of the situation no matter what happens.

And indeed to the OP, if you seek enlightenment you won't find it, you have to let go and just be your actions i.e. meditation, following the buddhas four noble truths, mindfulness.

quote:Originally posted by Raw_Power:

I thought "damn, Buddha sees the world exactly how I do" but then I read about the eightfold path and Karma, and thought it was just escapism, because, to quote Nietzsche, 'suffering maketh the man'.

Yes, I thought the same thing, that what Buddha said was spot on then I began to discover there is no real agreement on what Buddha actually said and in fact he is a more shadowy historical figure than Jesus. I also thought that it was escapism, that Buddhists teach that if one was to reach Nirvana suffering ceases. My question was is that forever? After all forever is a long, long, time. Would it get just a little boring?

Proust said suffering was not necessarily a bad thing for example:

quote: A woman whom we need and who makes us suffer elicits from us a whole gamut of feelings far more profound and more vital than does a man of genius who interests us.

....

Perhaps the greatest claim one can therefore make for suffering is that it opens up possibilities for intelligent, imaginative enquiry - possibilities which may quite easily be, and most often are, overlooked or refused. {How Proust can change your Life byAlain De Botton}

Proust questions whether the pursuit of happiness is in fact a realistic venture in a world such as this:

quote:.. how can we learn to suffer more successfully? Though philosophers have traditionally been concerned with the pursuit of happiness, far greater wisdom would seem to lie in pursuing ways to be properly and productively unhappy. The stubborn recurrence of misery means that the development of a workable approach to it must surely outstrip the value of any utopian quest for happiness?{Ibid}

Buddha lost me when he identifies his ego, it's desires, aversions etc., as being the cause of suffering and the cause of being reborn life after life into more suffering. Therefore his conclusion that the antidote {'escape'/Nirvana), the abandoning/surrender of the ego, thru the dharma, leads one to freedom from suffering - does not add up for me. I agree ego is 'a' cause but how could it be the original cause?

Namaste http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

my thoughts? it has the right idea, but like anything thats been around, claims to 'know' too much. the ideals and understanding of how life works, are more or less perfecto, but theres some things i just dont like.

quote:Originally posted by redzed:

Buddha lost me when he identifies his ego, it's desires, aversions etc., as being the cause of suffering and the cause of being reborn life after life into more suffering. Therefore his conclusion that the antidote {'escape'/Nirvana), the abandoning/surrender of the ego, thru the dharma, leads one to freedom from suffering - does not add up for me. I agree ego is 'a' cause but how could it be the original cause?

You might be misinterpreting the term ego. What is meant is the concept of the "self." Desires and all that are just symptoms of the self...and without a self there is no suffering. Think of ascetics these people intentionally inflict suffering on themselves for the sole purpose of denying the self.

quote:Originally posted by Real.PUA:

but it didn't really catch on in india...

cause it didnt kiss ass like the slavish hindus, it just moved on to other places, growing in popularity and numbers

quote:Originally posted by homosuperior:

cause it didnt kiss ass like the slavish hindus, it just moved on to other places, growing in popularity and numbers

LOL What do you know about "hinduism"?

http://tinyurl.com/goym8

And this isn't embrasing suffering?

Buddhism can take you to enlightenment on a personal basis, no doubt about it, but is that really enough? (I guess i do see your point here).



[This message has been edited by Mellow_Fellow (edited 09-12-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Real.PUA:

You might be misinterpreting the term ego. What is meant is the concept of the "self." Desires and all that are just symptoms of the self...and without a self there is no suffering. Think of ascetics these people intentionally inflict suffering on themselves for the sole purpose of denying the self.

That's bizarre, self harming to deny something that does not exist! What then is there? A greater self as the hindus believe? In which case identifying with that leads to greater suffering, all the suffering of all the other fractals of one's Self. Or no-self, no permanent, therefore real, entity. No immortal soul, no identity, no permanent existence. What then becomes of one and what is the purpose of existence?

Namaste http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)