I don’t frequent this forum of totse and when I read your replies in this (http://tinyurl.com/mw25q) thread you piqued my curiosity. Your beliefs truly do interest me and I ask you to explain your beliefs, and the experiences that helped mold them. I am an atheist. I will not use my beliefs as an excuse to not learn about other people religions. I’m reading The Holy Bible [King James Edition] and when I finish that, hopefully I will be able to get my hands on a Quran. Lost, I find the brief explanations of your beliefs much more complete than any run of the mill Christian, and that is what more or less piqued my curiosity.

For convenience I have copied and pasted these quotes so other totseans may participate and include their questions or insights. Yes, I have edited out items that do not pertain to this thread, and most noticeable have edited out her signature.

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

I believe we go where we believe we're going to go at a core level. If you truly believe you're going to go out like a candel, that's what will happen to you. If you truly believe you're going to heaven or hell you'll create your own heaven or hell. If you were to kill yourself you would know where you were supposed to go when you get there, on account of you'd go exactly where you know you belong.



quote:

If you truly believe that, then I suppose you would. But, once you're dead you get a completely different perspective on your life and the things you've done. Once you're dead you might realize what a mistake it had been to do that, and you may be guilty and realize that there is no heaven with 72 virgins for you.

And no, I'm not religious. This is just what I believe based on my own experiences.



quote:

I believe in spirit and that we all have spirits, which I believe transcend the mental and conciousness and that's what creates our own heaven and hells.

It's loosely based off the Judaic beliefs of the afterlife that once you die you evaluate your entire life from this permanently outside perspective. You see everything you've done as if it were someone else almost and whatever lessons you were supposed to learn but didn't you repeat over and over again for eternity or until you learn them.

I don't know about this specifically. This seems too structured for what I believe the afterlife is like.



quote:

But, if you'd like to know where I developed this belief... After developing The Time Method Theory (which, if you've never heard of I'll explain later) I came with the idea that if this is the fourth dimension, it could be entirely possible for humans to transcend any preceeding dimensions. However, not always in physical form, in the sense you're thinking of.

If all things are made of light energy, though, what is it that charges us? Scientifically speaking it's magnetic ions that feed upon several different things: the magnetic field of the planet, the sun, water, food, etc... But, what is it exactly that happens to this energy when we die? Because no energy is ever lost it must go somewhere? Into the ether? It could be entirely possible that after death, without our bodies to ground us, our spirit - lacking in physicality might be sucked into a sort of "black hole" where we become a part of a greater whole, without any conciousness of our own.

This is a very common theory of the afterlife. That upon the moment of death, all positively charged energy is sucked from our bodies by the negatively charged energy around us and the magnetism of the earth, and that this energy goes back into the ether where it's recycled. It's still "spirit" in a sense, but it's not exactly holy or divine or concious.

However, after dying and being revived three times I decided that there was a more detailed process that occurs during death. Shock, confusion, acceptance. I believe if our spirit is powerfull enough you can keep from being sucked back into the ether, and that actually going back into the ether is a choice. Instead you may evaluate your previous life and meditate on this in whatever way you will feel is positive to you and considering that once you die there are no longer any earthly/mortal endeavors to adhere to it's very easy for you to decide what you did wrong and right.

In this way you create your own heaven and hell.





[This message has been edited by Cooking with Zyklon B (edited 09-24-2006).]

Lost Cause said in that long creation vs evolution thread that she was never a Christian

quote:But, if you'd like to know where I developed this belief... After developing The Time Method Theory (which, if you've never heard of I'll explain later) I came with the idea that if this is the fourth dimension, it could be entirely possible for humans to transcend any preceeding dimensions. However, not always in physical form, in the sense you're thinking of.

Time is generally considered to be the fourth dimension.

quote:If all things are made of light energy, though, what is it that charges us?

Not all things are made of "light energy", whatever that is.

Edit: Asked a physicist I happen to know, and he tells me that there is no such thing as "light energy".

quote:Scientifically speaking it's magnetic ions that feed upon several different things: the magnetic field of the planet, the sun, water, food, etc...

What? We're made of "light energy" that is charged by "magnetic ions" that feed on magnetic fields, water, and broccoli, eh? http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

quote:But, what is it exactly that happens to this energy when we die? Because no energy is ever lost it must go somewhere?

I don't know about this "light energy" that eats "magnetic ions", but the energy that powers our bodies and our brains goes various directions. Potential energy, mostly, in the form of our body as fuel. When we die, our body is consumed by bacteria (assuming burial); so the potential energy in our bodies becomes chemical energy for bacteria. We could also be burned (body turned into heat energy), etc. I see no reason to believe we have "light energy" spirits, and even if we did I don't see why they wouldn't also disappear without the body to fuel them.

quote:This is a very common theory of the afterlife. That upon the moment of death, all positively charged energy is sucked from our bodies by the negatively charged energy around us and the magnetism of the earth, and that this energy goes back into the ether where it's recycled. It's still "spirit" in a sense, but it's not exactly holy or divine or concious.

I'm afraid I have some news for you: Humans don't have a positive or negative net charge. We're not batteries. We don't run on "positive energy"; we run on the energy we get by digesting food. Energy itself doesn't even have a charge. I'm not sure why death means that this energy is suddenly sucked, anyway; why wasn't it sucked out before? We're magically protected by living?

This is pseudo-scientific bullshit.

Edit: Said physicist also informs me:

quote:He is getting confused about charges, ions are atoms with an imbalance of protons or electrons, and so are either "positive" or "negative". There are not two different types of energy.



[This message has been edited by Twisted_Ferret (edited 09-24-2006).]

Lost's religion sounds stupider than Christianity. Twisted_Ferret did a good job with Lost's post although I've never heard that time was the fourth dimension. Where did you hear that?

quote:Originally posted by niggersexual:

Lost's religion sounds stupider than Christianity. Twisted_Ferret did a good job with Lost's post although I've never heard that time was the fourth dimension. Where did you hear that?



It may sound stupider than christianity but she is able to convey it better than most christians who just point at their little black book, for most christians are nothing but sheep and are herded into religion at a young age, too young to rationalize and decide for themselves if they would like to participate in a cult.

quote:Originally posted by niggersexual:

Lost's religion sounds stupider than Christianity. Twisted_Ferret did a good job with Lost's post although I've never heard that time was the fourth dimension. Where did you hear that?

Here (http://www.jimloy.com/physics/4d.htm) 's a site that claims it. It's pretty simple, but it explains why time is sometimes considered the fourth dimension. Not everyone thinks that, of course; but it seems to make sense to me. I know it's over-hyped, but Brian Greene's book The Elegant Universe also goes into it a little.

I normally discourage people from posting personal threads in the open forum, however, I suppose it's mildly important that this discussion be had publicly.

I read your reply and I don't have time to reply to the whole thing right this minute, but I am thinking about it and formulating an answer, which I'll post just as soon as I'm done with this project I'm working on for class.

Edit: Actually, now that I reread this, I'm not really sure what you're asking. I'm not Christian and this isn't my "religion". At best it's just a belief under-construction. If asked what I believe I'll tell you what I believe. But, if you want to know the truth don't even bother asking me, because I don't know. If you're interested in proof, I can't give it to you. If you're interested in proving me wrong, you're banging your head against a wall because I don't even know that I'm right.

So, what was it that you wanted to know?

Cheers,

Lost

[This message has been edited by LostCause (edited 09-26-2006).]

Time is generally considered to be the fourth dimension.

Yes.

If all things are made of light energy, though, what is it that charges us?

- By using the term "light energy" I'm trying to explain this in a way that's easier for the reader to understand. All things are made up of the same things: energy vibrating at different frequencies.

What? We're made of "light energy" that is charged by "magnetic ions" that feed on magnetic fields, water, and broccoli, eh?

Yes. We're charged by other sources of energy; such as the sun, or water, or yes, broccoli. We get hungry, we eat, we get more energy because the energy of the food is in us.

I don't know about this "light energy" that eats "magnetic ions",

- I never said that anywhere. You misread something.

but the energy that powers our bodies and our brains goes various directions. Potential energy, mostly, in the form of our body as fuel. When we die, our body is consumed by bacteria (assuming burial); so the potential energy in our bodies becomes chemical energy for bacteria. We could also be burned (body turned into heat energy), etc. I see no reason to believe we have "light energy" spirits, and even if we did I don't see why they wouldn't also disappear without the body to fuel them.

- I was asked what I personally believe. I'm not trying to prove to you that there is a spirit. I have no proof, I'm okay with that, you don't believe there is a spirit and that's fine, too. It is true about the decompsition process displacing energy, however I believe that there is something else.

I'm afraid I have some news for you: Humans don't have a positive or negative net charge. We're not batteries.

Actually we are very much like batteries. We gather energy from outside sources, store the energy, and eventually release the energy until we are recharged again.

We don't run on "positive energy"; we run on the energy we get by digesting food.

- Yes. We run on energy we get by digesting food. By using the terms "positive" and "negative" it gives people an easier handle on what I'm talking about. And there is positive and negative energy. Look it up.

I'm not sure why death means that this energy is suddenly sucked, anyway; why wasn't it sucked out before? We're magically protected by living?

- Are you asking for fact or are you asking what I believe? I believe it doesn't get sucked out because it doesn't want to. It's beneficial for it to remain where it is.

This is pseudo-scientific bullshit.

- Your point being?

Cheers,

Lost

quote:

Yes. [Time is considered to be the fourth dimension]



I disagree as when we speak of dimensions, we are talking about spacial dimensions. Calling time a dimension is like calling value in dollars a dimension.

quote:- By using the term "light energy" I'm trying to explain this in a way that's easier for the reader to understand. All things are made up of the same things: energy vibrating at different frequencies.

I don't see why referring to energy as being light energy makes that easier to understand. No everything is made of light and that is what you suggest when you say light energy. Additionally, although I'm not a physicist, there is more to energy that the frequencies of waves.

quote:- I was asked what I personally believe. I'm not trying to prove to you that there is a spirit. I have no proof, I'm okay with that, you don't believe there is a spirit and that's fine, too. It is true about the decompsition process displacing energy, however I believe that there is something else.

What about conservation of energy? That is a rather important piece of thermodynamics. A world without conservation of energy seems weird to me. Every action causes a reaction and the energy is continually transferred. Where would it go?

quote:- Yes. We run on energy we get by digesting food. By using the terms "positive" and "negative" it gives people an easier handle on what I'm talking about. And there is positive and negative energy. Look it up.

Apparently, the terms you use are using to not make what you say easier to understand as your readers are confused as to what you mean. Yes, there is positive and negatively charged energy. I stil don't understand what you mean though. Please expand on this.

quote:Are you asking for fact or are you asking what I believe? I believe it doesn't get sucked out because it doesn't want to. It's beneficial for it to remain where it is.

The only difference between a live body and a dead body is the absence of metabolism in a dead body. What do you mean by the energy? I am confused here as well. Also, your views of the energy seem to be rather animist. I'll quote a man dressed like Albert Einstein: "A push, a pull, that's how things move around." Things don't move somewhere because they want to move. They move because they are forced to.

quote:Cheers,

Lost

I don't understand what you are trying to say here either. I'm going to have to disagree with you here as well.

quote:Originally posted by Twisted_Ferret:

Originally posted by niggersexual:

Lost's religion sounds stupider than Christianity. Twisted_Ferret did a good job with Lost's post although I've never heard that time was the fourth dimension. Where did you hear that?

Here (http://www.jimloy.com/physics/4d.htm) 's a site that claims it. It's pretty simple, but it explains why time is sometimes considered the fourth dimension. Not everyone thinks that, of course; but it seems to make sense to me. I know it's over-hyped, but Brian Greene's book The Elegant Universe also goes into it a little.

I just think that considering time to be a spacial dimension is rather strange. Also, I've never really heard this before besides in A Wrinkle in Time and from one of my friends in fifth grade.

Also, in regard to The Elegant Universe, icantthinkofaname's parting words from this place were about how much that book sucked. I'm not going to dispute the book since I've never read it but I will honor his last words.

I have a lot of reading ahead of me. Not just this thread, but plenty of Google searches on many of the things mentioned in this thread...

Meh, I'll save it for another day. Lost, I do thank you for explaining your beliefs. Twisted, I realize that at first glance her beliefs look like bullshit so let’s use Christianity as a comparison. Try and condense the concept of Christianity in a nutshell and I'm sure it would come out just as smelly.

I'm not necessarily saying "liek omg, i want 2 convert to lostcauseism."

I saw her posts, and they piqued my curiosity.



[This message has been edited by Cooking with Zyklon B (edited 09-26-2006).]

I disagree as when we speak of dimensions, we are talking about spacial dimensions. Calling time a dimension is like calling value in dollars a dimension.

You're right, actually. His wording was wrong and I went along with it to avoid arguing over something that wasn't really related to the topic at hand. Time only exists in the 4th dimension. That's a more accurate way of saying it.

I don't see why referring to energy as being light energy makes that easier to understand.

Because "energy" could mean almost anything. However, if I say "light energy" it gives the reader a better picture of what I'm trying to describe.

What about conservation of energy? That is a rather important piece of thermodynamics. A world without conservation of energy seems weird to me. Every action causes a reaction and the energy is continually transferred. Where would it go?

What does this have to do with the topic at hand?

Apparently, the terms you use are using to not make what you say easier to understand as your readers are confused as to what you mean.

What are you talking about? That sentence doesn't even conjugate properly...

Yes, there is positive and negatively charged energy. I stil don't understand what you mean though. Please expand on this.

In what context would you like me to expand on?

The only difference between a live body and a dead body is the absence of metabolism in a dead body. What do you mean by the energy?

You keep asking the same question that doesn't make any sense. What do I mean by energy? Uh... look up the definition! Is there some kind of context you're talking about or what?

Also, your views of the energy seem to be rather animist. I'll quote a man dressed like Albert Einstein: "A push, a pull, that's how things move around." Things don't move somewhere because they want to move. They move because they are forced to.

That's a theory, not a fact.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:- By using the term "light energy" I'm trying to explain this in a way that's easier for the reader to understand. All things are made up of the same things: energy vibrating at different frequencies.

Can you provide any evidence for this?

quote:I never said that anywhere. You misread something.

Seems pretty clear to me:

quote:What? We're made of "light energy" that is charged by "magnetic ions" that feed on magnetic fields, water, and broccoli, eh?

Yes.

quote:If all things are made of light energy, though, what is it that charges us? Scientifically speaking it's magnetic ions that feed upon several different things: the magnetic field of the planet, the sun, water, food, etc...

***

quote:- I was asked what I personally believe. I'm not trying to prove to you that there is a spirit. I have no proof, I'm okay with that, you don't believe there is a spirit and that's fine, too. It is true about the decompsition process displacing energy, however I believe that there is something else.

Why? What reason to do you have to believe this?

quote:Actually we are very much like batteries. We gather energy from outside sources, store the energy, and eventually release the energy until we are recharged again.

I was referring to not the concept of a bettery, but to the type of batteries we usually use: i.e., things with magnetic charges.

quote:- Yes. We run on energy we get by digesting food. By using the terms "positive" and "negative" it gives people an easier handle on what I'm talking about. And there is positive and negative energy. Look it up.

Actual "negative energy" is hypothetical, and has never been observed. It is not all around us, sucking our positive energy out. More, you claim "negative charge" not actual negative energy itself. Energy has no charge.

quote:- Are you asking for fact or are you asking what I believe? I believe it doesn't get sucked out because it doesn't want to. It's beneficial for it to remain where it is.

One would hope that what they believe is fact. Are you suggesting that you indulge in a fantasy?

quote:- Your point being?

That it is incorrect, and that if you insist on believing mystical nonsense you at least have the decency not to claim it's scientific ("scientifically speaking...").



[This message has been edited by Twisted_Ferret (edited 09-26-2006).]

quote:I disagree as when we speak of dimensions, we are talking about spacial dimensions.

Perhaps you are. However, as the site explains, time often acts like a spatial dimension. From Wikipedia:

quote:The fourth dimension is often identified with time, and as such is used to explain space-time in Einstein's theories of special relativity and general relativity.

quote:Time only exists in the 4th dimension. That's a more accurate way of saying it.

Can you provide evidence for this? I've never heard it claimed before that time requires four dimensions to exist in... Indeed, as far as I'm aware we don't even know what exactly time is. I don't understand how you can make such vast, unsupported claims as this; unless, that is, you are privy to some special knowledge that the combined efforts of thousands of physicists, mathematicians, and other scientists have been unable to uncover.

[This message has been edited by Twisted_Ferret (edited 09-26-2006).]

quote:Also, your views of the energy seem to be rather animist. I'll quote a man dressed like Albert Einstein: "A push, a pull, that's how things move around." Things don't move somewhere because they want to move. They move because they are forced to.

That's a theory, not a fact.

In the same sense that the existance of anything outside yourself is a theory, not a fact. If you're going to play that sort of game, I don't see the point of having a discussion at all.

quote:Originally posted by Twisted_Ferret:



In the same sense that the existance of anything outside yourself is a theory, not a fact. If you're going to play that sort of game, I don't see the point of having a discussion at all.

TF did you read this:

quote:I'm not Christian and this isn't my "religion". At best it's just a belief under-construction. If asked what I believe I'll tell you what I believe. But, if you want to know the truth don't even bother asking me, because I don't know. If you're interested in proof, I can't give it to you. If you're interested in proving me wrong, you're banging your head against a wall because I don't even know that I'm right.

(originally posted by Lost Cause)

TF, Lost comes a person willing to question and keep an open mind, at the very least the above is a clear statement on what grounds responses to personal questions will be answered. Why for you take the aggressive tone of accusations about "playing games"?

Peace http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

quote:Originally posted by redzed:

TF, Lost comes a person willing to question and keep an open mind, at the very least the above is a clear statement on what grounds responses to personal questions will be answered. Why for you take the aggressive tone of accusations about "playing games"?

Peace http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Re:

quote:I'm not Christian and this isn't my "religion". At best it's just a belief under-construction. If asked what I believe I'll tell you what I believe. But, if you want to know the truth don't even bother asking me, because I don't know. If you're interested in proof, I can't give it to you. If you're interested in proving me wrong, you're banging your head against a wall because I don't even know that I'm right.

She states her belief is "under construction". I'm trying to steer her away from pseudo-science and "light" energy and the like, because as far as I can see it's all bull. Sure, I could be wrong; but if we don't discuss, we'll never figure it out. It may be that she converts me, I don't know.

Regarding my so-called "personal" attack: it isn't an attack at all. Rather, I see someone coming into a debate forum and then denying basic facts about the universe as a waste of time. It is indeed a fact, as much as the theory of gravity is a fact; I'm not going to debate axioms of universal function unless she can offer something better than "well that's just a theory."

As for you, redzed, you seem to object to any debate at all. You did the same thing to Martini, I recall; every time he would post a rebuttal, you would accuse him of being hostile. This isn't a forum where we hold hands and sing; I come here to debate. If you see that as some sort of violation of peace or something, well, that's a shame... but I feel you have misunderstood both my intentions, and the purpose of the forum.

[This message has been edited by Twisted_Ferret (edited 09-26-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

Because "energy" could mean almost anything. However, if I say "light energy" it gives the reader a better picture of what I'm trying to describe.

No. Energy is energy no matter what. If you say light energy, I have no idea what you're talking about.

quote:What does this have to do with the topic at hand?

Where do the spirits come from and where do they go?

quote:What are you talking about? That sentence doesn't even conjugate properly...

Hm. Replace the first to with do.

quote:In what context would you like me to expand on?

I want to know about the positively and negatively charged energy you speak of. Furthermore, now I'm stating to want to want to know what you are talking about when you talk about energy.

quote:You keep asking the same question that doesn't make any sense. What do I mean by energy? Uh... look up the definition! Is there some kind of context you're talking about or what?

Yes. I want to know your context. What is energy to you?

quote:That's a theory, not a fact.

"In the same sense that the existance of anything outside yourself is a theory, not a fact. If you're going to play that sort of game, I don't see the point of having a discussion at all."

quote:Originally posted by Twisted_Ferret:

Why? What reason to do you have to believe this?



[This message has been edited by niggersexual (edited 09-26-2006).]

Can you provide any evidence for this?

I don't know how many times I have to say that I'm not interested in proving myself right to anyone, or giving anyone proof, considering there is no way to judge the truth here. Everything is theoretical. However, I do have a very good link that explains what I'm talking about somewhere. I'm not sure if this is it, but I think it is: http://library.thinkquest.org/10796/ch10/ch10.htm

Why? What reason to do you have to believe this?

I've died in the hospital and been revived three times on account of I have a bad heart, and now a bad liver. Last year I went on chemo for four months due to hep A which is now gone. And it is said that NDE's are caused by a release of endorphines that floods the brain and causes hallucinations and delusions, however with me it was different. There was never any sort of bright white light or anything really celestial or divine or holy about the experience. It simply felt like "O, I'm dead now. That sucked. What do I do now?" and each time I just began to review my past life because I had nothing better to do. It was like realizing who I really am and realizing who I'd been in my life was someone completely different. But, there was no voice of god or anything, which lends me to believe that this wasn't caused by a flood of endorphines. There didn't appear to be any hallucination, visual or auditory, nor was there any sense of euphoria. Of course, this is easily refuted, hence I'm not trying to convince you.

Actual "negative energy" is hypothetical, and has never been observed. It is not all around us, sucking our positive energy out. More, you claim "negative charge" not actual negative energy itself. Energy has no charge.

This is all hypothetical. You can't back up your claims with fact anymore than I can, because in these sorts of physics almost everything is theoretical. There are very few known fact on the matter. At least I know I don't know all this for a fact.

One would hope that what they believe is fact. Are you suggesting that you indulge in a fantasy?

It is perfect fine to believe in something you don't know as fact. It would be silly to say that I know I'm right, but there nothing wrong in believing something. There are a lot of things we haven't discovered yet. Who knows what we may find out about our universe in the next hundred years? Not too long ago people believed the world was flat!

That it is incorrect, and that if you insist on believing mystical nonsense you at least have the decency not to claim it's scientific ("scientifically speaking...").

But some of it is based on scientific fact. Not all of it, but some is.

I don't really understand what your motives are with this. Are you trying to convince me that what I believe is wrong?

Cheers,

Lost

She states her belief is "under construction". I'm trying to steer her away from pseudo-science and "light" energy and the like, because as far as I can see it's all bull. Sure, I could be wrong; but if we don't discuss, we'll never figure it out. It may be that she converts me, I don't know.

Are you saying you know everything you need to know about your beliefs and that they will never change because you know for certain? That sounds pretty presumptuous. And I'm not trying to convert you. There's nothing to convert you, too.

I see someone coming into a debate forum and then denying basic facts about the universe as a waste of time. It is indeed a fact, as much as the theory of gravity is a fact;

There is no "theory of gravity". Gravity is caused by the magnetic pull of the Earth...

I'm not going to debate axioms of universal function unless she can offer something better than "well that's just a theory."

There's nothing but theory when it comes to metaphysics!

Cheers,

Lost

Where do the spirits come from and where do they go?

Do I sound like god to you? How would I know this? I don't even know if they exist. What do I believe however? Honestly I don't know where spirits come from. I don't believe that our spirits are confined to a single dimension and therefore time is irrelevant to them. Therefore it may be, that for as well as we're capable of comprehending, they have existed forever and will exist forever in one way or another.

I want to know about the positively and negatively charged energy you speak of.

Google it. This thread isn't about me giving a science class...

Yes. I want to know your context. What is energy to you?

Energy is the basis of everything.

"In the same sense that the existance of anything outside yourself is a theory, not a fact. If you're going to play that sort of game, I don't see the point of having a discussion at all."

I don't adhere to that belief, so I don't know where that came from...

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:



There is no "theory of gravity". Gravity is caused by the magnetic pull of the Earth...

Lost

Woah! I haven't participated in this discussion thus far, but I couldn't let that gross scientific misconception pass. Gravity has NOTHING to do with magnetism. Go read an 8th grade science book and you'll see that. Gravity is postulated to be the result of the curvature of space-time caused by objects with mass. If it were magnetism, no non-ferrous object would be affected by gravity...



Entheogenic

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

I don't know how many times I have to say that I'm not interested in proving myself right to anyone, or giving anyone proof, considering there is no way to judge the truth here. Everything is theoretical. However, I do have a very good link that explains what I'm talking about somewhere. I'm not sure if this is it, but I think it is: [link edited out]

Why would you think that everything is made up of light. As your source shows, there are many more parts to the electromagnetic spectrum than just visible light. Maybe you mean that everything is made up of electromagnetic waves. There are more types of things than electromagnetic waves.

quote:I've died in the hospital and been revived three times on account of I have a bad heart, and now a bad liver. Last year I went on chemo for four months due to hep A which is now gone. And it is said that NDE's are caused by a release of endorphines that floods the brain and causes hallucinations and delusions, however with me it was different. There was never any sort of bright white light or anything really celestial or divine or holy about the experience. It simply felt like "O, I'm dead now. That sucked. What do I do now?" and each time I just began to review my past life because I had nothing better to do. It was like realizing who I really am and realizing who I'd been in my life was someone completely different. But, there was no voice of god or anything, which lends me to believe that this wasn't caused by a flood of endorphines. There didn't appear to be any hallucination, visual or auditory, nor was there any sense of euphoria. Of course, this is easily refuted, hence I'm not trying to convince you.

That's probably because of all the drugs IMO. Still, going to hell and back is kind of cool.

quote:Are you saying you know everything you need to know about your beliefs and that they will never change because you know for certain? That sounds pretty presumptuous. And I'm not trying to convert you. There's nothing to convert you, too.

Since you love to point out typos in people's posts, you spelled to wrong and there's no reason to put a comma before a preposition. In addition, it's hardly proper to use a preposition to end a sentence with.

quote:There is no "theory of gravity". Gravity is caused by the magnetic pull of the Earth...

quote:Originally posted by Entheogenic:

Whoa! I haven't participated in this discussion thus far, but I couldn't let that gross scientific misconception pass. Gravity has NOTHING to do with magnetism. Go read an 8th grade science book and you'll see that. Gravity is postulated to be the result of the curvature of space-time caused by objects with mass. If it were magnetism, no non-ferrous object would be affected by gravity...

Also, Lost, you are correct in the sense that gravity is generally considered to be scientific law rather than theory.

quote:Do I sound like god to you? How would I know this? I don't even know if they exist. What do I believe however? Honestly I don't know where spirits come from. I don't believe that our spirits are confined to a single dimension and therefore time is irrelevant to them. Therefore it may be, that for as well as we're capable of comprehending, they have existed forever and will exist forever in one way or another.

Sounds kind of gay tbqh.

quote:Google it. This thread isn't about me giving a science class...

I know nothing of positvely or negatively charged energy. Their is only energy. Then I did google it and I found nothing of positively and negatively charged energy.

quote:Energy is the basis of everything.

I agree.

quote:I don't adhere to that belief, so I don't know where that came from...

It means that you can argue that anything is just a theory but that makes discussion meaningless.



[This message has been edited by niggersexual (edited 09-27-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

I don't know how many times I have to say that I'm not interested in proving myself right to anyone, or giving anyone proof, considering there is no way to judge the truth here. Everything is theoretical. However, I do have a very good link that explains what I'm talking about somewhere. I'm not sure if this is it, but I think it is: http: //library. thinkquest .org/10796/ch10/ch10.htm (http: //library. thinkquest .org/10796 /ch10/ch10 .htm)



That's a very simple primer on the properties of light. I don't understand how that relates to "light energy", or that everything is made up of "vibrating" energy.

quote:I've died in the hospital and been revived three times on account of I have a bad heart, and now a bad liver. Last year I went on chemo for four months due to hep A which is now gone. And it is said that NDE's are caused by a release of endorphines that floods the brain and causes hallucinations and delusions, however with me it was different. There was never any sort of bright white light or anything really celestial or divine or holy about the experience. It simply felt like "O, I'm dead now. That sucked. What do I do now?" and each time I just began to review my past life because I had nothing better to do. It was like realizing who I really am and realizing who I'd been in my life was someone completely different. But, there was no voice of god or anything, which lends me to believe that this wasn't caused by a flood of endorphines. There didn't appear to be any hallucination, visual or auditory, nor was there any sense of euphoria. Of course, this is easily refuted, hence I'm not trying to convince you.

Interesting, to be sure; but that has nothing to do with the rest of this science-gone-mad belief system you've constructed. http://www.totse.com/bbs/confused.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/confused.gif)

quote:This is all hypothetical. You can't back up your claims with fact anymore than I can, because in these sorts of physics almost everything is theoretical. There are very few known fact on the matter. At least I know I don't know all this for a fact.

What is "this"? The only claims I have made are regarding what happens to bodies when they are no longer living, and the existance of positive/negative energy. Neither of my claims were in the realm of the hypothetical. The claim re: time is the only hypothetical anything in my posts, and I've admitted that it isn't a fact.

quote:It is perfect fine to believe in something you don't know as fact. It would be silly to say that I know I'm right, but there nothing wrong in believing something.

Something for which there is no evidence? There's plenty wrong with that.

quote:But some of it is based on scientific fact. Not all of it, but some is.

Based on twisted, misinterpreted, and just plain wrong scientific fact, yeah...

quote:I don't really understand what your motives are with this. Are you trying to convince me that what I believe is wrong?

I'm trying to get to the truth of the matter, whatever that is. I, of course, think that you are wrong; but I don't know for sure. I'm trying to learn more about everything you believe, and how else can I find out how you would reply to my objections but to post them?



[This message has been edited by Twisted_Ferret (edited 09-27-2006).]

quote:Are you saying you know everything you need to know about your beliefs and that they will never change because you know for certain? That sounds pretty presumptuous.

Please show me where I said this. As far as I can recall, I have admitted several times that it might indeed be me who is wrong.

quote:There's nothing but theory when it comes to metaphysics!

This isn't metaphysics. This is basic science that you seem to have gotten terribly mixed up. Case in point:

quote:There is no "theory of gravity". Gravity is caused by the magnetic pull of the Earth...

quote:I want to know about the positively and negatively charged energy you speak of.

quote:Google it. This thread isn't about me giving a science class...

I did Google it. The only entry about "negative energy" was a reference to so-called exotic matter; that is, something theorized about along with wormholes etc. Hardly a rock-solid scientific basis - and this type of negative matter is completely different from the properties you give your version as having. It isn't a negative charge, either, but rather something more than an absence of energy.

Besides exotic matter, the only reference to positive/negative energy was "spiritual" (i.e. Wicca).

I think you're getting electromagnetism and energy/gravity mixed up. I'm sorry if I sound hostile; I've had a bad couple of days involving people and their beliefs, and I tend to get fiery in debates anyway.

quote:Originally posted by niggersexual:

It means that you can argue that anything is just a theory but that makes discussion meaningless.

Yes. I can reply to every claim anyone makes "that's theory, not fact!"... but that doesn't mean it's a valid refutation.

[This message has been edited by Twisted_Ferret (edited 09-27-2006).]

Interesting, to be sure; but that has nothing to do with the rest of this science-gone-mad belief system you've constructed. http://www.totse.com/bbs/confused.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/confused.gif)

Actually that is entirely what this thread is about. I was asked what my personal beliefs are and why. I explained what my beliefs were and then I explained why.

What is "this"?

Metaphysics.



Something for which there is no evidence? There's plenty wrong with that.

There's no evidence yet. What if Einstein never believed in the theory of relativity? What if Copernicus never believed the earth was round? What if no one ever believed there were other planets? I mean, there wasn't always proof for these things, but people believed in them. And because they believed in them they sought out ways to prove them. If no one ever took a chance on something they weren't certain about or didn't have any evidence of, we would never learn anything about our universe.

Based on twisted, misinterpreted, and just plain wrong scientific fact, yeah...

How am I so blatantly wrong?

I'm trying to get to the truth of the matter, whatever that is.

So what do you believe the "truth" is? If you know so much better than I. I was asked what I believe and why, I told the truth about what I believe and why. So, as far as I'm concerned, I've told the truth of the matter.

I'm trying to learn more about everything you believe, and how else can I find out how you would reply to my objections but to post them?

Uh... you could just try asking me? It would be a lot easier than trying to formulate an argument against something you don't even know anything about.

Cheers,

Lost

Please show me where I said this. As far as I can recall, I have admitted several times that it might indeed be me who is wrong.

You claimed that believing in something you don't know as fact is "indulging in fantasy", whereas I think that it's simply contemplating the possibilities of the universe. By saying this you're implying that you only know what you know is fact and you're not interested in anything that cannot be proven by fact.

Cheers,

Lost

I did Google it. The only entry about "negative energy" was a reference to so-called exotic matter; that is, something theorized about along with wormholes etc. Hardly a rock-solid scientific basis - and this type of negative matter is completely different from the properties you give your version as having. It isn't a negative charge, either, but rather something more than an absence of energy.

Well that was exactly what I was talking about. It's also referred to as dark matter and grey matter. And you're right, it's not a rock-solid scientific basis, but it is a scientific basis. It's definitely a study of science. I never claimed that to be a fact. However it is fact that there is such matter, what it actually is is what no one really knows for sure yet.

Yes. I can reply to every claim anyone makes "that's theory, not fact!"... but that doesn't mean it's a valid refutation.

Yea. I replied to his statement about that. I don't adhere to that way of thinking and I don't know where you picked up on that. Some things are theoretical and some things are fact, though. That can't be changed. If I say it's theoretical it's because that specific thing is. But, I don't answer that to everything.

Cheers,

Lost

THIS WHOLE THREAD IS THEORETICAL!!! http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif) http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif) http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif)

newayz, I don't believe that dark matter is made out of negative light energy as you would say. Where did you get that notion? BTW, you would think the negative light energy would get eliminated by the positve light energy as they would cancel each other out and leave you with light energy with the net charge of the two. Negative energy makes me sad but who knows? Maybe there is negative light energy somewhere out there yet to be discovered.

quote:Originally posted by niggersexual:

THIS WHOLE THREAD IS THEORETICAL!!! http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif) http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif) http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif)

newayz, I don't believe that dark matter is made out of negative light energy as you would say. Where did you get that notion? BTW, you would think the negative light energy would get eliminated by the positve light energy as they would cancel each other out and leave you with light energy with the net charge of the two. Negative energy makes me sad but who knows? Maybe there is negative light energy somewhere out there yet to be discovered.

That was one of the things that made the discovery of dark matter interesting. Up until then it was known that there was no darkness - only the absence of light. But, the discovery of dark matter created the question if perhaps there was an entirely different type of energy besides light.

Certain religious groups glommed onto this, too, as a way to explain heaven and hell and claim that the dark matter is a product of the Devil.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by Twisted_Ferret:



I think you're getting electromagnetism and energy/gravity mixed up. I'm sorry if I sound hostile; I've had a bad couple of days involving people and their beliefs, and I tend to get fiery in debates anyway.



My point exactly, why get fiery? What does it achieve? I can tell you're taking my post as an attack just as did Martini. That is not my intention. You make some relevant points, ask some good questions, then ruin it by making it seem you are not interested in debate but simply in winning an argument. It's frustrating http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif) I too am sorry if I'm coming across in a rather clumsy and negative fashion.

Peace http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

On topic: Lost if you check out some of Stephen Hawkings work he gives some good insights into gravity, from what I remember it has to do with mass: "Newton's theory of gravity was based on an even simpler model, in which bodies attracted each other with a force that was proportional to a quantity called their mass and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them. Yet it predicts the motions of the sun, the moon, and the planets with a high degree of accuracy"(A Brief History of Time P.10-11) in practice not quite 100% accurate as Einstein found "that gravity is not a force like other forces, but is a consequence of the fact that space-time is not flat, as had previously been assumed: it is curved, or 'warped', by the distribution of mass and energy in it.(ibid P.31)

Your description of the things that happened during your NDE's is interesting as I've wondered often what happens after death if in fact all one was left with were memories. Time is a factor only in a physical existence? I've wondered how long between the extinguishment of physical life and all trace of activity in the mind, whether there would come a point where time was no longer relevant, instead it would seem to stand still and perhaps one's memory would fill that moment, a moment that would seem to last forever. In which case predominantly bad memories would equal hell and good memories heaven.

Thoughts, where do they come from? does an electron for some reason nudge another? What starts them? http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

Cheers http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by redzed:



I've wondered how long between the extinguishment of physical life and all trace of activity in the mind, whether there would come a point where time was no longer relevant, instead it would seem to stand still and perhaps one's memory would fill that moment, a moment that would seem to last forever. In which case predominantly bad memories would equal hell and good memories heaven.

Just according to my own experiences, I found that I was perfectly "concious" of what was going on at all times. There was a confusion but I was still there. What happened was when I detached from my body my body and my life within my body became irrelevant. All things that had transpired in my previous life were so incredibly insignificant because all that was gone and what mattered was that really I had never even been that person. I am what I am now and what I will be forever and have been forever. Then, each time once I realized I was dead I began looking for a light, which is what any logical being would do. But, there was no light, which was troubling. So then I began reviewing my life, but since there's no time it wasn't like watching a movie. I knew every second of my life at once and everything that had happened in it effected me in this sort of whole way, because you no longer have senses like we do with our bodies. Instead, at the point of leaving the body all of the senses meld into once giant sense and everything effects this one giant sense, which is ultimate your very being. It's very intense, but not bad, unless - I imagine there's a reason for it to be.

Thoughts, where do they come from?

To my knowledge most of our thoughts are created by chemical reactions in the brain mostly caused by outside sources. But, I believe that some thoughts are purely us.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

Well that was exactly what I was talking about. It's also referred to as dark matter and grey matter. And you're right, it's not a rock-solid scientific basis, but it is a scientific basis. It's definitely a study of science. I never claimed that to be a fact. However it is fact that there is such matter, what it actually is is what no one really knows for sure yet.

Negative energy doesn't seem to fit what you claimed of your version; it doesn't have a negative charge, and isn't all around us. Dark matter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_matter) is also completely different from exotic matter. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exotic_matter)

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

That was one of the things that made the discovery of dark matter interesting. Up until then it was known that there was no darkness - only the absence of light. But, the discovery of dark matter created the question if perhaps there was an entirely different type of energy besides light.

Certain religious groups glommed onto this, too, as a way to explain heaven and hell and claim that the dark matter is a product of the Devil.

"Dark matter" is only called dark matter because it emits no light. It doesn't mean that darkness isn't the absence of light, just like a black T-shirt doesn't.

Light is not the only type of energy, and it has never been thought that it was.

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

You claimed that believing in something you don't know as fact is "indulging in fantasy", whereas I think that it's simply contemplating the possibilities of the universe. By saying this you're implying that you only know what you know is fact and you're not interested in anything that cannot be proven by fact.

Cheers,

Lost

"Believing" and "contemplating" are two different things.

"Dark matter" is only called dark matter because it emits no light. It doesn't mean that darkness isn't the absence of light, just like a black T-shirt doesn't.

Light is not the only type of energy, and it has never been thought that it was.

I know about this. However, since nothing is really known about dark matter other than that it exists and that no one knows what it is or what it does whether or not it can emit light I guess is still up for debate. But, that's not what I was talking about anyway. And I didn't say that light was the only type of energy. I said "perhaps there was an entirely different type of energy besides light." For instance, whereas there is no light and darkness may be there's a possibility that there is a "darkness" of some sort.

"Believing" and "contemplating" are two different things.

I contemplate it certainly, as I don't know for sure that I'm correct. But, I believe I am.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

I know about this. However, since nothing is really known about dark matter other than that it exists and that no one knows what it is or what it does whether or not it can emit light I guess is still up for debate. But, that's not what I was talking about anyway. And I didn't say that light was the only type of energy. I said "perhaps there was an entirely different type of energy besides light." For instance, whereas there is no light and darkness may be there's a possibility that there is a "darkness" of some sort.



As you say little is known of dark matter, it's a lot like the 'big bang', looks good on paper http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif) Theories abound because dark matter is a necessary component of a Universe that is 'full', that is there is 'something' everywhere - there is no 'nowhere', no nothing - as in 'absolute' nothing, therefore there must be something everywhere. Thus the necessity and value of postulating 'dark matter'. In theory the dark matter may be an energy spiral, a conducter that transmits all the energy passing thru the area and retains none. One challenge to that theory is that the dark matter would need to be in a 'steady' state which would contradict the evidence that no-thing is at rest, everything moves even rocks in the desert. http ://www.ter ragalleria.com/parks/np-image-lf.deva1150.html (http: //www.terr agalleria. com/parks/ np-image-l f.deva1150 .html)

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:



Just according to my own experiences, I found that I was perfectly "concious" of what was going on at all times. There was a confusion but I was still there. What happened was when I detached from my body my body and my life within my body became irrelevant. All things that had transpired in my previous life were so incredibly insignificant because all that was gone and what mattered was that really I had never even been that person. I am what I am now and what I will be forever and have been forever. Then, each time once I realized I was dead I began looking for a light, which is what any logical being would do. But, there was no light, which was troubling. So then I began reviewing my life, but since there's no time it wasn't like watching a movie. I knew every second of my life at once and everything that had happened in it effected me in this sort of whole way, because you no longer have senses like we do with our bodies. Instead, at the point of leaving the body all of the senses meld into once giant sense and everything effects this one giant sense, which is ultimate your very being. It's very intense, but not bad, unless - I imagine there's a reason for it to be.

Mind-stretching story http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif) I have read similar accounts http://www.near-death.com/

quote:"To fear death is nothing other than to think oneself wise when one is not. For it is to think one knows what one does not know. No one knows whether death may not even turn out to be one of the greatest blessings of human beings. And yet people fear it as if they knew for certain it is the greatest evil." ? Socrates

Peace bwithu http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

[This message has been edited by redzed (edited 09-27-2006).]

"All I know is I know nothing." - Plato

Cheers,

Lost

Socrates?

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

"All I know is I know nothing." - Plato

Cheers,

Lost

"True knowledge is in realising the extent of one's ignorance." (author unknown)

Peace http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Wow. This thread has reached new heights of pretentiousness. That's awesome! Good work everyone. Now we should just suddenly turn the subject to Sate and how his Dadaist art expressed his "image" of religion and it's effect on popular society.

Mm... ice cream...

Cheers,

Lost

[This message has been edited by LostCause (edited 09-28-2006).]

You know, asking someone about their beliefs and then deliberetly pointing out which parts you consider flawed, while delivering judgements which are little more than insults to the person kind enough to indulge your desire for information.... could be considered slightly rude.

Isn't it nice when you dont have to see the face of the person you talk to?

quote:Originally posted by Lost Cause

Gravity is the magnetic pull of the Earth...

Not sure if anyone else covered this but you're way off there, gravity (as Einstein proved) is caused by the warping of space-time by objects with mass.

quote:Originally posted by niggersexual:

Socrates?



Only via Plato http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)



Entheogenic

quote:Originally posted by Niceguy:

You know, asking someone about their beliefs and then deliberetly pointing out which parts you consider flawed, while delivering judgements which are little more than insults to the person kind enough to indulge your desire for information.... could be considered slightly rude.

Isn't it nice when you dont have to see the face of the person you talk to?

Isn't it nice when you completely fail to understand what is going on in a thread? http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif) I am not the thread starter, and the thread starter never criticized her beliefs.

I would keep pointing out parts I consider flawed, but she doesn't seem to care. Four people so far have pointed out one of these supposed flaws, but are ignored. Oh well; I'm too lazy anyway.

quote:Originally posted by Cooking with Zyklon B:

Twisted, I realize that at first glance her beliefs look like bullshit so let’s use Christianity as a comparison. Try and condense the concept of Christianity in a nutshell and I'm sure it would come out just as smelly.

Well, that's because Christianity is also bullshit. :P But seriously, I wasn't trying to pick a fight or anything; I just noticed she had gotten several things wrong - at least by science as it is currently understood - and perhaps was over-eager in my zeal to "correct" her. http://www.totse.com/bbs/eek.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/eek.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Twisted_Ferret:

Originally posted by Cooking with Zyklon B:

Twisted, I realize that at first glance her beliefs look like bullshit so let’s use Christianity as a comparison. Try and condense the concept of Christianity in a nutshell and I'm sure it would come out just as smelly.

Well, that's because Christianity is also bullshit. :P But seriously, I wasn't trying to pick a fight or anything; I just noticed she had gotten several things wrong - at least by science as it is currently understood - and perhaps was over-eager in my zeal to "correct" her. http://www.totse.com/bbs/eek.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/eek.gif)

Which you didn't really do... Considering these things can't be proven one way or the other.

Cheers,

Lost

Whooo, misunderstandings.

But still, be nice. I haven't been told i'm going to burn for all eternity for disagreeing with her yet, and i've always found that an endearing trait in a religion, don't you?

quote:Originally posted by Niceguy:

Whooo, misunderstandings.

But still, be nice. I haven't been told i'm going to burn for all eternity for disagreeing with her yet, and i've always found that an endearing trait in a religion, don't you?

Not really. There isn't much appealing to her religion as it doesn't mesh with what I know and there is no coolness factor.