I had a thought the other day while being ranted at by a creationist I had given up hope on, about why this god idea exists. There is no proof anywhere, unless you take the bible as literal truth(If I don't believe in god why would I believe he did a book?).

Thats it, right there. Santa clause has some evidence available to support his existance, right up to around age 7 when your avarage kid kicks the shit out of the idea and realizes their parents do it. God has no such falsifiable evidence, so it is much harder to kich the hell out of the idea and believe you are in the right. Thats why the catholic church is so careful about calling stuff miracles. The lack of evidence and the taught faith make you feel insecure about believing anything different, because your "soul" is at risk.

I dunno if anyone else has posted anything to this effect, but I have been assocating with hopeless creationists so this is a more socially acceptable way of blowing off some steam.

Thats a crazy coincidence, I have always thought that religion was like Santa for adults. If you behave, then you get presents. If you live a holy life, you get to go to heaven.

Good topic, as many people seem to confuse the two.

Santa Claus judges, and then rewards or punishes accordingly. That is, his love is conditional.

God neither judges nor punishes--hence his love is unconditional.

quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:

Good topic, as many people seem to confuse the two.

Santa Claus judges, and then rewards or punishes accordingly. That is, his love is conditional.

God neither judges nor punishes--hence his love is unconditional.

If god doesn't judge, then who does? Why do we have to proclaim "faith" to go to heaven, if he's almighty AND has unconditional love for us?

I need to clarify this a little, I was referring to the christian god when I mentioned god, I have not really looked at other religions much at all, although the argument can probabily be applied to all of them.

With that in mind, relevations seems to shoot down ArmsMerchants second statement, I can't see how being cast into a fiery pit for eternity can be seen as anything other than a punishment.

Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that any evidence that supported the existance of god would doom religion, as other explinations that make much more sense would be found.(I'm assuming a lot here, mainly that future research does not turn up a pissed off diety's phone number or anything. I think I can safely make this assumption.) Could this be why religion butts heads with science so often? Is this the real reason human cloning is a taboo subject among churchgoers? Why ignorance like intellegent design "theory" has found its way into public school systems? Or even why homeschooled children are so often completely ignorant about the world? If your child starts to think, you need to stop the process early on to protect their souls, and make sure they know what the truth is, so your grandkids will also make it into paradise. And sense anyone out there that disagrees with you is an agent of satan, hell bent on collecting your immortal soul for no readly available reason, it is your duty and obligation to spread god to those hapless sinners, and if that means living in the dark ages, then so be it.(yeah, I'm steriotyping, but those who inspired this thought process fit the bill. I hope I get these ideas out before they decide to burn me as a witch.)

quote:Originally posted by Duck:

anyone out there that disagrees with you is an agent of satan, hell bent on collecting your immortal soul for no readly available reason.

Guilty as charged!

quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:

Good topic, as many people seem to confuse the two.

Santa Claus judges, and then rewards or punishes accordingly. That is, his love is conditional.

God neither judges nor punishes--hence his love is unconditional.

so then why do people go to hell? is hell not a punishment?

quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:

Good topic, as many people seem to confuse the two.

Santa Claus judges, and then rewards or punishes accordingly. That is, his love is conditional.

God neither judges nor punishes--hence his love is unconditional.

My thoughts exactly.

People send themselves to heaven or hell, people are attracted to their own things. If people like hurting other people, they'll be in their own private hell with people hurting other peope constantly, until they realize it is futile and change...

quote:

If god doesn't judge, then who does? Why do we have to proclaim "faith" to go to heaven, if he's almighty AND has unconditional love for us?



Because "faith" is taking conciousness to a higher level and believing in something more than the physical world. Heaven is not some place you just go to be rewarded, it's a place in the chain of spiritual evolution. You can not find your way without a map.

Well, I mean you can, it's just really, really, really fucking hard.

[This message has been edited by Rizzo in a box (edited 09-29-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by HandOfZek:

If god doesn't judge, then who does? Why do we have to proclaim "faith" to go to heaven, if he's almighty AND has unconditional love for us?

We judge ourselves and each other, and often very harshly, and to no benefit.

According to the New Gospel, we do NOT have to proclaim faith, or do anything else in order to "go to heaven." (I put this in quotes since I see no such actual place as Heaven--nor is there any such actual place as Hell--it is a metaphor.) God wants nothing from us, does not reward OR punish, but simply loves and creates.

"If you don't believe you don't receive."

ArmsMerchant, your god sounds pretty cool.

But I don't think that's the god in the bible.