I've only ever been to, two funerals and one of those was when I was like 3-4, so it's more of a blur than anything. The other was a year or so ago.

Now I have no idea if the guy was religious or not, didn't know him that well (he was a friend of my mothers) but it was a christian funeral. I only went because I was asked by my mother to attend, I usually try to avoid these things and get out of them as best as possible.

Anyway death is inevitable and unavoidable, unfourtunatly... And the time is going to come when I have to deal with a family members demise. So I'm just woundering how would an atheist deal with such an event? specially if the rest of their family were not atheist?

Would you go with the beliefs of the family member because thats what they'd want? Or would you think, 'well they're dead and their beleif's are stupid' and hold a non-religious funeral? Or in the event it wasn't your choice and another person was dealing with the whole thing, and chose a religious funeral, would you attend the funeral even though you didn't believe in God?

I don't know, maybe this is a stupid topic with an obvious answer, but it's been on my mind for a while.

Dead people have no rights, no legal identity, they belong to the next of kin who can do whatever they want with them.

With regards funerals, personally I'm thinking something more along the lines of Weekend at Bernie's.



[This message has been edited by Issue313 (edited 10-03-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Issue313:

Dead people have no rights, no legal identity, they belong to the next of kin who can do whatever they want with them.

What the hell? http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif)

So if you had a dear friend who died, and his family pissed on his body and raped it, you wouldn't be the least bit troubled?

I think there is such a thing as "honoring the dead". It's not really a "right" that is set in stone, but just a sign of respect for humanity. People can't just do whatever the fuck they want with dead relatives, though. It's not right. http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif)

That being said, if one of my religious family members died, I'd organize a religious funeral and have them buried the way they would have wanted to be. Likewise, if I were to die, I would hope that my family would have enough respect for my life to honor my death they way I'd prefer it be honored, in a secular service allowing those close to me to get together and say "Yeah, we'll miss him", mourn, and get on with their lives.

I find the whole idea of funerals to be morbid and pointless.

The body is merely the physical means by which the soul manifests itself. When the soul passes on, what is left is just so much garbage.

There is a religious sect--Ill probably recall the name as soon as I log off the comp--which puts corpses up on platforms to be devoured by vultures and other scavengers, which seems like a good idea to me.

I carry an organ donor card, and what happens to my corpse when I am done with it is of zero interest to me. Heck, chop it up for cat food, for all I care.

quote:Originally posted by Elephantitis Man:



So if you had a dear friend who died, and his family pissed on his body and raped it, you wouldn't be the least bit troubled?



Well, I would think his family members are disgusting perverts, but I wouldn't feel this "dishonors" my friend's memory in any way. And even if it does, he's dead, why should he care about his honor? The whole corpse-fetish doesn't work for me. My best friend committed suicide a while ago, and I seriously wouldn't be angry if someone pissed on his grave.

Nobody believes in honoring the dead anymore. http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Elephantitis Man:

Nobody believes in honoring the dead anymore. http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)

I do! I sort of get what the others are saying about the dead and not caring what happens to their bodys. But I also believe that we should be respecting them and their beliefs because it is what they would have wanted, unless otherwise said by deceased.

quote:Originally posted by Source:

...it is what they would have wanted...

But what does it matter? This might seem a bit cold, but I just don't see why I should care about what this person wanted, when he \ she doesn't exist anymore. Who will I be helping by respecting the assumed wishes of dead people? I don't believe in any kind of metaphysical entities that command my respect. If I thought their ghosts were still roaming the Earth, it would be different... but I don't think that's the case.

That being said - if people, in general, feel better knowing that their wills will be respected after their death, I'm fine with that. Personally, I think it's pointless.

quote:Originally posted by marvin:

But what does it matter? This might seem a bit cold, but I just don't see why I should care about what this person wanted, when he \ she doesn't exist anymore. Who will I be helping by respecting the assumed wishes of dead people? I don't believe in any kind of metaphysical entities that command my respect. If I thought their ghosts were still roaming the Earth, it would be different... but I don't think that's the case.

That being said - if people, in general, feel better knowing that their wills will be respected after their death, I'm fine with that. Personally, I think it's pointless.

Well if your parents were religious would it not be logical to assume they wanted a religious funeral? Would it kill you to give them one out of respect for what they once were, regardless of whether you believed it was pointless or not?

^ (marvin) Man, it's about symbolism. You don't do it out of respect for their body, or for them, but in memory of them. Like, if you considered their life valuable and it meant something to you. It symbolic of conclusion; makes life's abrupt ending seem less cold. I guess it isn't really about them. It may be for their family, or for their friends, or just for you.

Besides, skipping out on the mourning process can fuck you up psychologically. O_o

[This message has been edited by Elephantitis Man (edited 10-03-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Source:

Would it kill you to give them one out of respect for what they once were, regardless of whether you believed it was pointless or not?

No, I don't mind funerals, religious or other. I clarified that in my second paragraph. I just don't feel they mean anything to me.

quote:Originally posted by Elephantitis Man:

Man, it's about symbolism. You don't do it out of respect for their body, or for them, but in memory of them. Like, if you considered their life valuable and it meant something to you. It symbolic of conclusion; makes life's abrupt ending seem less cold. I guess it isn't really about them. It may be for their family, or for their friends, or just for you.

Besides, skipping out on the mourning process can fuck you up psychologically. O_o



Who cares about symbolism? And besides, if their friends \ family actually want the corpse-fetish, fine, they can have all the funerals and landstones they want.

I can have complete respect and love for a living person, but I don't see why these feelings command me te respect that person's memory. It's just a memory. It's mine. I can do whatever I want with it. If I want to keep it I will, and if I don't - I won't.

But I'm not even talking about remembering dead people. What I oppose to is giving objects (such as graves and corpses), or words (such as the deceased's name), some kind of higher status. These things mean nothing to me. I don't need them to remember the dead. If others feel they do - they can knock themselves out. I didn't say it's OK to piss over a grave, just said I wouldn't mind if someone did that to my friend's grave.

As for "mourning": I don't know any psychology, but like the whole memory thing - this is irrelevant. I'm not talking about not feeling sad over death, I'm talking about certain ways of expressing mourning that I disagree with.

Everyone has to deal with everything in their own personal way. This includes death. No matter how much or long you think and plan about how you're going to deal with death, you're going to react however it is you react in the moment. There's nothing wrong with this. It's just the way it is and we all have to do it. Your religion or spirituality has nothing to do with it.

Cheers,

Lost

I hope someone at my funeral play AC/DC's "Highway to Hell"

would put the spark back into everyones lives wouldnt it,

well, except for mine, cause i'd be dead.

Maybe you could have a seance at your funeral?

quote:Originally posted by Costanza:

I hope someone at my funeral play AC/DC's "Highway to Hell"

would put the spark back into everyones lives wouldnt it,

well, except for mine, cause i'd be dead.

Why not? Make it official, make that a codicil in your will. Have dancing girls, and trained seals, and clowns throwing confetti around while you're at it--but do the thoughtful thing, and arrange for this to be pre-paid.

Funerals--besides being morbid, pointless and so on--are incredibly expensive. A half-way decent coffin costs more than I paid for my car, and the damned thing will only be used once, and then buried. Any sense in that?

[This message has been edited by ArmsMerchant (edited 10-05-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:

Funerals--besides being morbid, pointless and so on--are incredibly expensive. A half-way decent coffin costs more than I paid for my car, and the damned thing will only be used once, and then buried. Any sense in that?

Very good point. I'd rather be cremated and thrown into the sea. I can imagine the wind blowing my ashes all over my relatives, just like in The Big Lebowski! http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

I don't see all funerals as morbid. A funeral (and following wake) are better when people see them more as a celebration of the life that person had rather than focusing on the way they died.

This seems to be the tradition in my family anyhow. I have never been to a family funeral where we have been able to keep a somber mood for long. (Like the time a cousin of my mother's put my Great Grandfather's ashes in little white paper bags for all the kids to scatter over the sea. All of us thought we were getting lollies. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif) Then they nearly lost my brother overboard... Eventful day.)

quote:Originally posted by Issue313:

Maybe you could have a seance at your funeral?

There is a psycic on Coast to Coast AM every so often that does that so that.

If you want to plan your own funeral don't put the info in your will, that can sit unread for weeks after they plop you presevative filled makeup slathered carcas into a concrete vault to the sound of boring old hyms. So if you have plans you need to let them be known to your family before hand.

I strongly recommend carrying an organ donor card, even though the whole idea of organ donation is over-rated (I got a lot of insider info on the whole deal when I was a member of the Governor's Ad Hoc Committee on Organ and Tissue Donation, thirty years ago in Pennsylvania.)

It DOES do some good, and it saves your estate a shitload of dough. Details vary by state, but in Pennsylvania, whatever is left over when the donation and med school stuff is done, is cremated and placed in a special memorial hall in Philadelphia, so that relatives, fans, whatever can come and "pay their respects" to your last remains.

quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:

Details vary by state, but in Pennsylvania, whatever is left over when the donation and med school stuff is done, is cremated and placed in a special memorial hall in Philadelphia, so that relatives, fans, whatever can come and "pay their respects" to your last remains.

That's a change from med students honor you by using you skin to bind their anatomy books.

As an athiest you know then that when they're dead, they're dead.

It's an empty body. They're not watching to see what you do.

Funerals were designed to help the LIVING let go.

Handle it how you will think would make you feel better.

If you think they might be watching and you want to please them, you're probably not really athiest http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

Death is very hard to cope with. Just do whatever will help you release the best.