Snuzzles
2006-10-12, 23:58
Johnfloyd6675: i became an existentialist christian yesterday
Auto response from clintjohnston19: There are essentials in life, and among those is life, liberty and the pursuit of a full stomach.
clintjohnston19: is that so
clintjohnston19 returned at 6:41:55 PM.
Johnfloyd6675: yeah
Johnfloyd6675: want to hear about it?
clintjohnston19: I'll listen
clintjohnston19: Hey, why aren't you on the new forum yet
Johnfloyd6675: it started off with the ridiculous reaction to the North Korea thing
clintjohnston19: k
Johnfloyd6675: north korea is, as far as i am concerned, evil
clintjohnston19: yeah
Johnfloyd6675: and the reaction in the west seemed to be largely "well, we don't have the moral authority to say what's evil and what isnt!"
clintjohnston19: uh huh. listening
Johnfloyd6675: and it made me question what it is about america that gives us the right to say THIS is how it's GOTTA BE
Johnfloyd6675: and i decided that the laws of a system cannot change, even if the actors in the system change
Johnfloyd6675: which is why it's the job of the government to uphold the constitution, which is intended to be truth, and not rewrite it according to present reality
Johnfloyd6675: and i said that the most basic truths are the ones we can observe and reduce into theorems and constants, and that if science cannot explain a phenomenon that we observe, then there is something fundamentally different about that phenomenon
clintjohnston19: uh huh
Johnfloyd6675: so i said that the reason human beings are able to be so heroic is that we can choose to destroy ourselves for the good of others, which is something that creaturs without free will cannot do
Johnfloyd6675: so i said that animals are built to preserve themselves, and the way that self-preservation is ensured is with PAIN and PLEASURE, where PLEASURE comes from GOOD things like eating and PAIN is from bad things like getting stabbed
Johnfloyd6675: and that since a human can choose not to eat and can volunteer to get stabbed, there must be a difference between pain and pleasure vs. happiness and suffering
Johnfloyd6675: and i decided that suffering and happiness are the consequences of human choice, and that suffering is BAD and that happiness is GOOD
clintjohnston19: A logical conclusion
Johnfloyd6675: and people have to take responsibility for causing happiness and causing suffering
Johnfloyd6675: so i said that all people have the RIGHT to make choices and the RESPONSIBILITY to accept consequences
Johnfloyd6675: and therefore, if through choosing not to act, a person causes or allows suffering, they must accept responsibility for that. so people have the RIGHT to defend themselves from oppression (where others' choices cause them to suffer) and the RESPONSIBILITY to accept the consequences
clintjohnston19: ok
Johnfloyd6675: and with this in mind, i noticed that by always denying oneself "pleasure" to avoid making other people "suffer," you are by definition "perfect"
Johnfloyd6675: and then i thought, fuck, that's Jesus
Johnfloyd6675: and now that i look at it, the bible is all truth, with stories and fables used to illustrate that truth. the fact is that by choosing to avoid pleasure so that others avoid suffering, you yourself can attain happiness.
clintjohnston19: hey quit cursing...
clintjohnston19: This new filter is fricking stupid
clintjohnston19: but it closes down the program if ti sees cursing
clintjohnston19: OY! So stupid
Johnfloyd6675: and now i understand that the old testament is about being Good (if not perfect) and the new testament is about Perfection
Johnfloyd6675: however, if you're perfect, you will end up nailed to a cross
Johnfloyd6675: so basically, i think that for perfect people to be running the show, you need good people to lay the smackdown on the flat-out evil people
Johnfloyd6675: which is why in Revelations it says that there must be an Israel (state of people of the old testament) to allow for perfect people to rule
Johnfloyd6675: now, does that mean there's such a thing as a perfect person? i haven't met one. but the Amish seem pretty close. but when someone shoots amish kids, the amish forgive them, and Amishy people will never rule the world until Good people have cleared the world of Evil people. and THAT's why if you shoot a bunch of Israeli schoolkids, Israel will shoot you back. that's their policy.
clintjohnston19: yeah
Johnfloyd6675: so, do i believe that the Biblical Christ existed? probably not. but do i believe that what he stands for is Perfection? yes. and for a utopia, does the government need to be perfect? yes.
Johnfloyd6675: so basically, i'm an Existential Christian Humanistic Postmillenialist
Auto response from clintjohnston19: There are essentials in life, and among those is life, liberty and the pursuit of a full stomach.
clintjohnston19: is that so
clintjohnston19 returned at 6:41:55 PM.
Johnfloyd6675: yeah
Johnfloyd6675: want to hear about it?
clintjohnston19: I'll listen
clintjohnston19: Hey, why aren't you on the new forum yet
Johnfloyd6675: it started off with the ridiculous reaction to the North Korea thing
clintjohnston19: k
Johnfloyd6675: north korea is, as far as i am concerned, evil
clintjohnston19: yeah
Johnfloyd6675: and the reaction in the west seemed to be largely "well, we don't have the moral authority to say what's evil and what isnt!"
clintjohnston19: uh huh. listening
Johnfloyd6675: and it made me question what it is about america that gives us the right to say THIS is how it's GOTTA BE
Johnfloyd6675: and i decided that the laws of a system cannot change, even if the actors in the system change
Johnfloyd6675: which is why it's the job of the government to uphold the constitution, which is intended to be truth, and not rewrite it according to present reality
Johnfloyd6675: and i said that the most basic truths are the ones we can observe and reduce into theorems and constants, and that if science cannot explain a phenomenon that we observe, then there is something fundamentally different about that phenomenon
clintjohnston19: uh huh
Johnfloyd6675: so i said that the reason human beings are able to be so heroic is that we can choose to destroy ourselves for the good of others, which is something that creaturs without free will cannot do
Johnfloyd6675: so i said that animals are built to preserve themselves, and the way that self-preservation is ensured is with PAIN and PLEASURE, where PLEASURE comes from GOOD things like eating and PAIN is from bad things like getting stabbed
Johnfloyd6675: and that since a human can choose not to eat and can volunteer to get stabbed, there must be a difference between pain and pleasure vs. happiness and suffering
Johnfloyd6675: and i decided that suffering and happiness are the consequences of human choice, and that suffering is BAD and that happiness is GOOD
clintjohnston19: A logical conclusion
Johnfloyd6675: and people have to take responsibility for causing happiness and causing suffering
Johnfloyd6675: so i said that all people have the RIGHT to make choices and the RESPONSIBILITY to accept consequences
Johnfloyd6675: and therefore, if through choosing not to act, a person causes or allows suffering, they must accept responsibility for that. so people have the RIGHT to defend themselves from oppression (where others' choices cause them to suffer) and the RESPONSIBILITY to accept the consequences
clintjohnston19: ok
Johnfloyd6675: and with this in mind, i noticed that by always denying oneself "pleasure" to avoid making other people "suffer," you are by definition "perfect"
Johnfloyd6675: and then i thought, fuck, that's Jesus
Johnfloyd6675: and now that i look at it, the bible is all truth, with stories and fables used to illustrate that truth. the fact is that by choosing to avoid pleasure so that others avoid suffering, you yourself can attain happiness.
clintjohnston19: hey quit cursing...
clintjohnston19: This new filter is fricking stupid
clintjohnston19: but it closes down the program if ti sees cursing
clintjohnston19: OY! So stupid
Johnfloyd6675: and now i understand that the old testament is about being Good (if not perfect) and the new testament is about Perfection
Johnfloyd6675: however, if you're perfect, you will end up nailed to a cross
Johnfloyd6675: so basically, i think that for perfect people to be running the show, you need good people to lay the smackdown on the flat-out evil people
Johnfloyd6675: which is why in Revelations it says that there must be an Israel (state of people of the old testament) to allow for perfect people to rule
Johnfloyd6675: now, does that mean there's such a thing as a perfect person? i haven't met one. but the Amish seem pretty close. but when someone shoots amish kids, the amish forgive them, and Amishy people will never rule the world until Good people have cleared the world of Evil people. and THAT's why if you shoot a bunch of Israeli schoolkids, Israel will shoot you back. that's their policy.
clintjohnston19: yeah
Johnfloyd6675: so, do i believe that the Biblical Christ existed? probably not. but do i believe that what he stands for is Perfection? yes. and for a utopia, does the government need to be perfect? yes.
Johnfloyd6675: so basically, i'm an Existential Christian Humanistic Postmillenialist