I have been trying to do as much research as possible on Giants. At first, I was extremely skeptical. The idea of real Giants just sounds so absurd, however, the more I researched it, the more I started to believe that it was at the very least possible.

Apparently, there is a lot of evidence about Giants in the bible and other ancient texts. My problem there is that I tend to believe that most of the bible is wrong, so I feel like I would be a hypocrite if I would pick and choose what I want to believe.

Here are a few links I found interesting.

http ://www.gen esispark.c om/genpark/giant/giant.htm (http: //www.gene sispark.co m/genpark/ giant/gian t.htm)

http://p eter.chatt away.com/a rticles/giants.htm (http: //peter.ch attaway.co m/articles /giants.ht m)



[This message has been edited by AnAsTaSiO (edited 11-03-2006).]

Your links are broken up, but here is your first one: http://www.genesispark.com/genpark/giant/giant.htm

Is that what it takes for you to lose a bit of your skepticism regarding the existence of giants? It doesn't bother you that legitimate archaeologists never find giant bones?

Here are excerpts I found from a response on this website (bolding mine): http://www.edwardtbabinski.us/creationism/giants.html

quote:Also, on human giants "over ten feet tall," not a bone exists as evidence. I've contacted both Hovind and the creationist in Texas who made his own giant human bone out of plaster, a mere "model" as it says at his website, of what a giant human femur might look like.

quote:But the Mt. Blanco webpage admits that the "femur" pictured on their site is a sculpture that Mr. Taylor molded in order to illustrate a story. The story came from a letter published in an unnamed publication by an unnamed person, neither does the story mention "femurs." The letter states:

"In south-east Turkey in the Euphrates Valley and in Homs and at Uran-Zohra, tombs of about four meters long once existed, but now roads and other construction work has destroyed the spots. At two places, when unearthed because of construction work, the leg bones were measured about 120 cms [47" long]. It sounds unbelievable. I have lived with my family at Ain-Tell for more than 14 years at the very spot where King Nebuchadnezzar had his headquarters after the battle of Charcamish, where I dug the graves of kings' officers and found their skeletons like sponge, and when you touch them they become like white ash, with spears and silex and obsidian tools and ammunition laying by."

The author of the letter did not say "femur," but, "leg bones." Perhaps in the great state of Texas in the USA, where the Mr. Blanco [creationist] Museum resides, they refer to the "fermur" colloquially as the "leg bone" (singular), but the Middle Easterner who wrote the above letter referred to "leg bones" [plural] when he stated, "at two places... the leg bones [plural] were measured about 47" long." So the word "femur" was not mentioned at all, and leaving aside Texas colloquialisms, the "leg bones" in this case probably refers to all the bones of the leg, the total "leg" length. I wear 34-36" long pants, so my "leg bones" measure about 36." The "leg bones" mentioned above were maybe 11" inches longer than mine. Such a skeleton might be a few feet taller than me, as I'm only 6'3" tall, but not "14-16 feet tall" as the Mt. Blanco Museum calculates, based on their assumption that "the leg bones" must mean "femurs" (plural).

All in all, a human whose legs were 11" longer than mine is large, but not beyond the known range of human variation. See for instance: E. Cobham Brewer 1810-1897. Dictionary of Phrase and Fable. 1898 , "Giants of Real Life." Mr. Brewer collected a long list of "human giant" stories from throughout history and their alleged heights, and his conclusion, as stated at one point in his list, was that "...no recorded height of any human giant known has reached 10 feet... The nearest approach to it was Gabara, the Arabian giant (9 feet 9 inches) mentioned by Pliny, and Middleton of Lancashire (9 feet 3 inches) mentioned by Dr. Plott."

quote:Originally posted by AnAsTaSiO:

My problem there is that I tend to believe that most of the bible is wrong, so I feel like I would be a hypocrite if I would pick and choose what I want to believe.

Only if you're a True Christian. I'm anti-christian and I still believe in alot of the bible. There are real places and events in there. Lot's of mythology and distortion too though.

Would the bones still be "findable" by us, if there were so major geographical reversals and big big changes that took place on the surface of the earth?

There are many animals that live today that have not be discovered yet. Crytozoology deals with all that kind of stuff. The giant squid for example, was considered to be a myth until a live body was found.

If we have trouble finding bones for all the animals that live today, imagine thousands of years ago.

I am not saying I am postive that Giants once roamed the earth, but I do believe that you are dismissing them entirely too easily.

quote:Originally posted by AnAsTaSiO:

I am not saying I am postive that Giants once roamed the earth, but I do believe that you are dismissing them entirely too easily.

I am not dismissing giants too easily whatsoever. There would need to be some rational reason or reliable evidence available for one to believe in the existence of human giants in the past; your links have shown none.

What exactly would constitute the title "giant?"

Niefilhim(sp?) in Genesis and the Book of Enoch which is part of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church's canon. They talk about the giant offspring of fallen angels breeding with human females.

Check out the square-cube law before you get all het up about giants.

Unless one is aquatic, or has one heck of a good exoskeleton, one just doesn't get terribly big.

quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:

Check out the square-cube law before you get all het up about giants.

Unless one is aquatic, or has one heck of a good exoskeleton, one just doesn't get terribly big.

I just looked up the square-cube law. I don't nescessarly think it elimnates the possiblity of giants.

And that is all I am saying, that giants, MIGHT have once lived on earth.



quote:Originally posted by karma_sleeper:

Niefilhim(sp?) in Genesis and the Book of Enoch which is part of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church's canon. They talk about the giant offspring of fallen angels breeding with human females.

This is something I found very interesting.

[This message has been edited by AnAsTaSiO (edited 11-04-2006).]

in the bible (pre flood times here) God made the earth's atmosphere with about 2x as much oxygen as there is now.

first, let me explain 'dinosaurs'. reptiles never stop growing. keep that in mind. more oxygen in the atmosphere and pristine living conditions allowed them to keep growing and growing much longer than what exists today.

same goes with people. people lived longer because for one they ate much better, and the whole world was like a hyperbaric chamber. look that one up on google. their bodies were in their prime for growing much longer than what humans today have. i want to say noah was like 12 feet tall or something.. its all on dr. Hovind's website. www.drdino.com (http://www.drdino.com)

im sure some douchebag is going to argue this with shit like 'carbon dating' or 'real science'. what i have to say to you is this: have fun in Hell

^^^ Kiddo, go read a book on highschool biology and the re read that site again.(I found it funny, actually. Thanks for the good laugh http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif))

Ancient atmospheres didn't have more 2x the O2 than they do now, they had more sulfur insted. We know this by looking at antartic ice core samples and geological samples

Humans never were 12 foot tall. Hight isn't just environmental, its also genetic. And we don't have the genes to become that tall. (Unless your suggesting we evolved to become taller...)

People don't even become that tall when their glands fuck up. And the human frame wouldn't be able to cope with it either. You ever seen footage of those REALLY tall people on the news? (Those nearing 8ft) They all have severe back problems.

Besides, too much oxygen isn't actually good for you Thats why you can't have pure oxygen in SCUBA tanks and why you're not meant to spend too much time in a hyperbaric chamber.

I take it you're probably a troll, but that doesn't matter because you gave me a good chuckle today. Thanks (And look! Not a mention of Carbon 14 anywhere!)

EDIT: grammer





[This message has been edited by flatplat (edited 11-05-2006).]

well flatpat, have fun in hell

quote:Originally posted by ate:

Would the bones still be "findable" by us, if there were so major geographical reversals and big big changes that took place on the surface of the earth?

Dinosaurs lived before people. Do you disagree? If not then the fact that we can find their bones, proves we can find bones from more recent time periods as well.

quote:Originally posted by wrestle171:

in the bible (pre flood times here) God made the earth's atmosphere with about 2x as much oxygen as there is now.

First of all I don't think thats 100% correct but even if it were it would be a natural occurence. Feel free to prove me wrong.

quote:Originally posted by wrestle171:



first, let me explain 'dinosaurs'. reptiles never stop growing. keep that in mind. more oxygen in the atmosphere and pristine living conditions allowed them to keep growing and growing much longer than what exists today.



Really now? So then why do animals in pure oxygen enviroments (we can do this in labs) not just keep growing forever?

quote:Originally posted by wrestle171:



same goes with people.



I have proof thats not true. First of all genetics. Second of all the space program used to use pure oxygen enviroments. People would train in them, live in them, eat in them, sleep in them. No fluctuations in growth. Besides if that were true people living near large planted areas would always be taller than people living in cities, after all they have more oxygen.

quote:Originally posted by wrestle171:



people lived longer because for one they ate much better,

People actually lived much shorter life times than they do now. Thats a fact.

quote:Originally posted by wrestle171:

and the whole world was like a hyperbaric chamber. look that one up on google. their bodies were in their prime for growing much longer than what humans today have. i want to say noah was like 12 feet tall or something..



That literally made me laugh. Thank you for that.

quote:Originally posted by wrestle171:



its all on dr. Hovind's website.



It's not a very....factual well researched website is it?



quote:Originally posted by wrestle171:



im sure some douchebag is going to argue this with shit like 'carbon dating' or 'real science'

YEAH! FUCK THOSE PEOPLE AND THEIR REAL SCIENCE!! OUR FAKE SCIENCE WITH FAKE STATISTICS AND NO CHECKPOINTS OR PROOF IS THE WAY TO GO!!!!

quote:Originally posted by wrestle171:



. what i have to say to you is this: have fun in Hell

You showed us!

EDIT: Minor typos.



[This message has been edited by Aft3r ImaGe (edited 11-05-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Aft3r ImaGe:

It's not a very....factual well researched website is it?

That site is such a sad attempt at using "science" to discredit science, that it's hard to believe that anyone can fall for such nonsense.

Hovind's article dismissing the efficacy of Carbon-14 dating is so full of holes, it doesn't even work on a science fiction level.

How do these hoaxsters get people suckered in to calling them doctors, when their doctorates were obtained from diploma mills?

quote:Kent Hovind is a young-earth creationist who gives frequent public lectures on evolution and creationism. He is well-known for repeating the claim that the remains of a basking shark found by Japanese fishermen off the coast of New Zealand were actually those of a recently deceased plesiosaur.

Hovind claims to possess a masters degree and a doctorate in education from Patriot University in Colorado. According to Hovind, his 250-page dissertation was on the topic of the dangers of teaching evolution in the public schools. Formerly affiliated with Hilltop Baptist Church in Colorado Springs, Colorado, Patriot University is accredited only by the American Accrediting Association of Theological Institutions, an accreditation mill that provides accreditation for a $100 charge. Patriot University has moved to Alamosa, Colorado and continues to offer correspondence courses for $15 to $32 per credit. The school's catalog contains course descriptions but no listing of the school's faculty or their credentials. Name It and Frame It lists Patriot University as a degree mill.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/credentials.html

quote:

EDIT: grammer



lawl

But seriously, thank God for common sense. Nice retort.

Not that I believe this, but it would be interesting if any of this were true:

http://www.s8int.com/giants1.html

Interesting link. The warped skull stuff, however, I must call BS on. Cultures all over the world have purposefully produced misshapen skulls in their children for a variety of reasons. In pre-Columbian civs, for example, it was commonly done as a mark of nobility/divinity.

Also, I can't remember where I read it (may have been another totse thread) but that giant femur might also be a fraud.

quote:Originally posted by karma_sleeper:

I

Also, I can't remember where I read it (may have been another totse thread) but that giant femur might also be a fraud.

Me too. If I can remember where I last saw it, I'll be sure to post a link up.

It was a pretty good read, but I'd just like to comment on two points.

The first is polydactly. They mention that it could be a trait leading back from giants, because they supposedly all had 6 fingers and 6 toes.

The truth with polydactly though is that the gene (for the particular one that’s responsible for 6 fingers) rarely gives you a phenotype that consists of 6 fingers on each hand, or even the same amount of fingers on each hand. (You can get 5 on one, 7 on the other, etc) It’s a gene a of varying penetrance. And their degree of development often varies as well, with many of these extra digits being poorly developed. (I just had my genetics exam today, so I was in the mood to point that out.)

The other one’s about Queen Nefretitti and her strange head. (on the side bar, if anyone read it.) That is purely an artistic style that seems restricted to the reign of Akhenaton only. They have busts and images from very early on in his reign that show him and his family looking very normal. And when he carked it and Tutankhamen came to power, they scrapped that style of art.

Um... what?

Of course giants are real. Haven't you heard of Andre the Giant, or one of the many others? It's a result of a problem with growth hormones. Entire races of giants? No. Giants have major health problems, and it's unlikely that a race of them could survive to reproduce.

I actually remember reading in either The Penguin History of the World or a book by Graham Hancock that these "giants" were actually a story made up to explain findings of elephant bones.

quote:Originally posted by Inti:

I actually remember reading in either The Penguin History of the World or a book by Graham Hancock that these "giants" were actually a story made up to explain findings of elephant bones.

Also, when they discovered the skulls of the elephants, they thought that they must have only one eye (because there's a hole in the skull where the trunk goes in). That's where the Greeks got the idea of the cyclops.

http://www.african-hunter.com/elephant_part_1.htm

quote:Originally posted by Clarphimous:

Also, when they discovered the skulls of the elephants, they thought that they must have only one eye (because there's a hole in the skull where the trunk goes in). That's where the Greeks got the idea of the cyclops.

That's like the cave bears.

People in the middle ages found

cave bear skeletons and wrote

"here be dragons" on their maps.

I somehow felt the need to post in this thread http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

Giants are mentioned in the Qu'ran aswell, they were too dangerous for humans though and didn't listen to allah so he put them underneath mountains and in volcanos and shit. The story really reminds me of the greek myth of the Titans.

Giants are mentioned in so many cultures, but do you think that's because it's quite a common idea thatthings could be much bigger?

quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:

Check out the square-cube law before you get all het up about giants.

Unless one is aquatic, or has one heck of a good exoskeleton, one just doesn't get terribly big.

Armed merchant can I buy a gun please?

Also did T-Rex have an exoskeleton?

Bump.

This topic is well interesting.

quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:

Check out the square-cube law before you get all het up about giants.

Unless one is aquatic, or has one heck of a good exoskeleton, one just doesn't get terribly big.

quote:Originally posted by owned:

Armed merchant can I buy a gun please?

Also did T-Rex have an exoskeleton?

Yeah, it had an exoskeleton made of a titanium alloy. That's where the "t" comes from in its name. It was also able to fire nuclear warheads from its arms. And everyone thought that those things were useless on a T-rex... ha!

quote:Originally posted by Stiffmajj The Giant:

I

Giants are mentioned in so many cultures, but do you think that's because it's quite a common idea thatthings could be much bigger?

I think the reason giants pop up so much in myth is because, once apon a time, we were all very small children. And back then, everyone else around you was a giant!