I don't believe that a god exists thats anything like what any religion says. I doubt there is a god really. What I don't understand about the belief in not believing in anything after death, is what about ghosts? Tons of people have seen them, there are plenty of tv shows about them, you really cant say they don't exist. Don't ghosts prove that there is something after death? I've read about "dimensions" of life and how we live in one and when you die to go to another one. Im not trying to spew my beliefs on you folks, but what are your thoughts on this?



[This message has been edited by gmail (edited 11-13-2006).]

I'm an atheist, but if I believed in a God, it would be Brahman... not that that has anything to do with this thread.

quote:Originally posted by gmail:

Tons of people have seen them, there are plenty of tv shows about them, you really cant say they don't exist.

But I can say that there is not enough strong evidence to say that they do. Tons of people claim to have ESP, have been possessed, have magical powers, have seen UFOs, have had contact with aliens, etc. Should we believe in all of the above because there have been tons of claims?

When someone sees something unexplained in the sky, he often believes it was an alien spacecraft, but that has only been since about the forties. In earlier times something unexplained in the sky was believed to be a fairy. In other times, it must have been a witch. Of course when someone sees something in the corner of thier eye or has an unexpected artifact on a photograph, it's a ghost.

If ghosts existed, wouldn't it make sense that they would appear to the vast majority of us? Wouldn't they constantly be throwing stuff around restaurants, movie theaters, etc., just to goof on us? If they're visible to some, wouldn't they appear in stadiums occasionally for all to see, instead of appearing as an apparition on a photograph.

The fact that plenty of people have made claims and that there are TV shows, is not enough logical steps of inference to come to the conclusion that ghosts must exist.

quote:

But I can say that there is not enough strong evidence to say that they do. Tons of people claim to have ESP, have been possessed, have magical powers, have seen UFOs, have had contact with aliens, etc. Should we believe in all of the above because there have been tons of claims?

When someone sees something unexplained in the sky, he often believes it was an alien spacecraft, but that has only been since about the forties. In earlier times something unexplained in the sky was believed to be a fairy. In other times, it must have been a witch. Of course when someone sees something in the corner of thier eye or has an unexpected artifact on a photograph, it's a ghost.

If ghosts existed, wouldn't it make sense that they would appear to the vast majority of us? Wouldn't they constantly be throwing stuff around restaurants, movie theaters, etc., just to goof on us? If they're visible to some, wouldn't they appear in stadiums occasionally for all to see, instead of appearing as an apparition on a photograph.

The fact that plenty of people have made claims and that there are TV shows, is not enough logical steps of inference to come to the conclusion that ghosts must exist.

Yeah I should have worded that sentence a bit better. I'm just saying that a lot of people have seen them. Sure it could be just in the mind, but there have been plenty of ghosts caught on video. There are many theory's on what causes apparitions so who knows.

[This message has been edited by gmail (edited 11-13-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by gmail:

Sure it could be just in the mind, but there have been plenty of ghosts caught on video.

You're a hard nut to crack.

i beleve that they do exist.though i havent seen em.

check this out



NASA:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8n-pH8SepA

]www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V-w0g0vRu0&mode=related&search=] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V-w0g0vRu0&mode=related&search=)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V-w0g0vRu0&mode=related&search=[/URL]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY0K240Hquw&NR

www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Fc8oJt7Gtk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Fc8oJt7Gtk)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wvPbnxy4wc&mode=related&search=

quote:Originally posted by gmail:

Yeah I should have worded that sentence a bit better. I'm just saying that a lot of people have seen them. Sure it could be just in the mind, but there have been plenty of ghosts caught on video. There are many theory's on what causes apparitions so who knows.



No. There is no reliable evidence for ghosts.

quote:Originally posted by Martini:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by gmail:

[b]Tons of people have seen them, there are plenty of tv shows about them, you really cant say they don't exist.

But I can say that there is not enough strong evidence to say that they do. Tons of people claim to have ESP, have been possessed, have magical powers, have seen UFOs, have had contact with aliens, etc. Should we believe in all of the above because there have been tons of claims?

When someone sees something unexplained in the sky, he often believes it was an alien spacecraft, but that has only been since about the forties. In earlier times something unexplained in the sky was believed to be a fairy. In other times, it must have been a witch. Of course when someone sees something in the corner of thier eye or has an unexpected artifact on a photograph, it's a ghost.

If ghosts existed, wouldn't it make sense that they would appear to the vast majority of us? Wouldn't they constantly be throwing stuff around restaurants, movie theaters, etc., just to goof on us? If they're visible to some, wouldn't they appear in stadiums occasionally for all to see, instead of appearing as an apparition on a photograph.



Just because there isn't enough evidence for something doesn't arbitrarily make it false. Ohh, and I guess you have the godlike ability to say what is enough evidence and not? Sigh.

Would ghosts appear to a majority of us? Well, there are two forms of existence: matter and energy. Supposing ghosts are made of energy, and this energy doesn't interact with this world, the only way a ghost could communicate with people is through giving the person hallucinations of your image. So, no, I doubt many people can have the same perception.

[This message has been edited by Xerxes89 (edited 11-13-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Xerxes89:

Just because there isn't enough evidence for something doesn't arbitrarily make it false.

I never claimed that it did. Read my first sentence again.

quote:Originally posted by Xerxes89:

Ohh, and I guess you have the godlike ability to say what is enough evidence and not? Sigh.

One does not need godlike abilities to come to a conclusion. Sigh.

As a child, my family had just moved into a new apartment, and I saw a strange man in a doorway. I asked my mother who the man was--she said "What man?" I described him, and she went to the landlord. The man I described was the previous tenant, who had hanged himself in that doorway.

quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:

As a child, my family had just moved into a new apartment, and I saw a strange man in a doorway. I asked my mother who the man was--she said "What man?" I described him, and she went to the landlord. The man I described was the previous tenant, who had hanged himself in that doorway.

There's always a story with you, isn't there?

quote:Originally posted by Raw_Power:

I'm an atheist, but if I believed in a God, it would be Brahman... not that that has anything to do with this thread.

Wow, you contradicted yourself. Agnostic pussy.

quote:Originally posted by Dr Euthanize:

Wow, you contradicted yourself. Agnostic pussy.

I have in no way contradicted myself. I generally call myself an atheist so people realize that I do not believe in a God, do not worship a God, and do not act as if there is a God.

I only call myself an agnostic-atheist when I want to "wax philosophical" because I fully admit, as all good scientists would, that there is a possibility that a god exists.

And simply saying which out of all the fictitious gods is my favorite does not contradict being an atheist. Atheists don't have to hate on religion, you know.

the witnesses are attention seekers

What about "leprechauns"?

What about "big foot"?

What about "blessed virgin mary"?

What about "chupacabras"?

What about "angels"?

What about "flying saucers"?

What about "mermaids"?

"Tons of people have seen them, there are plenty of tv shows about them, you really cant say they don't exist."

quote:Originally posted by Viraljimmy:

What about "leprechauns"?

What about "big foot"?

What about "blessed virgin mary"?

What about "chupacabras"?

What about "angels"?

What about "flying saucers"?

What about "mermaids"?

"Tons of people have seen them, there are plenty of tv shows about them, you really cant say they don't exist."

The reason I say this is because ghosts HAVE been caught on tape. How could ArmsMerchant describe a man THAT WAS DEAD and that he had NEVER MET well enough for the landlord to know who he was. I have plenty of real life examples from just family alone. A few members of my family and a few family friends (who I trust more than anyone) have experienced the super natural.

[This message has been edited by gmail (edited 11-20-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by gmail:

The reason I say this is because ghosts HAVE been caught on tape. How could ArmsMerchant describe a man THAT WAS DEAD and that he had NEVER MET well enough for the landlord to know who he was.

If you're prepared to believe that ghosts exist based on those two criteria, you should also believe in the existence of just about everything on Viraljimmy's list, along with the Loch Ness monster, Ogo Pogo, mothmen, fairies, etc. They have been supposedly been caught on film and there are plenty of people on internet message boards and elsewhere willing to bring forth anecdotal evidence.

quote:Originally posted by Martini:

If you're prepared to believe that ghosts exist based on those two criteria, you should also believe in the existence of just about everything on Viraljimmy's list, along with the Loch Ness monster, Ogo Pogo, mothmen, fairies, etc. They have been supposedly been caught on film and there are plenty of people on internet message boards and elsewhere willing to bring forth anecdotal evidence.



Your attempt at making me look foolish still doesn't answer how AM was able to describe the man that killed himself, despite never knowing him while he was alive.



[This message has been edited by gmail (edited 11-21-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by gmail:

Your attempt at making me look foolish still doesn't answer how AM was able to describe the man that killed himself, despite never knowing him while he was alive.

ArmsMerchant says a lot of things....

quote:Originally posted by gmail:

Your attempt at making me look foolish still doesn't answer how AM was able to describe the man that killed himself, despite never knowing him while he was alive.

If you post that weak evidence of anecdotal stories and supposed images prove that ghosts exist, you're making yourself look foolish all on your own.

Are any of these videos on the Internet?

You have as much proof ghosts exists as I do that it's all in the persons subconcious. Everything can be explained. You just want to believe there's live after death and all this bullshit because life is boring for you and esoteric stuff like this excites you.

quote:Originally posted by gmail:

Your attempt at making me look foolish still doesn't answer how AM was able to describe the man that killed himself, despite never knowing him while he was alive.

1. Source says that ArmsMerchant tells lots of stories; he's lying.

2. His mother told him the story as a goof.

3. The landlord made up the story about someone hanging himself as a goof.

4. The story is partially true, but details have been added over time.

5. Coincidence.

But you choose to believe number 6, because you couldn't come up with any alternatives on your own, and are gullible enough to believe if someone tells you a ghost story, it must be true.:

6. Armsmerchant has or had the power to see things that other people can't, such as ghosts that keep physical characteristics of their old self and wear invisible clothing, and a ghost has nothing better to do to hang around the doorway at which he killed himself.

Sounds like you could use a healthy dose of skepticism.

quote:Originally posted by xray:

1. Source says that ArmsMerchant tells lots of stories; he's lying.

2. His mother told him the story as a goof.

3. The landlord made up the story about someone hanging himself as a goof.

4. The story is partially true, but details have been added over time.

5. Coincidence.

But you choose to believe number 6, because you couldn't come up with any alternatives on your own, and are gullible enough to believe if someone tells you a ghost story, it must be true.:

6. Armsmerchant has or had the power to see things that other people can't, such as ghosts that keep physical characteristics of their old self and wear invisible clothing, and a ghost has nothing better to do to hang around the doorway at which he killed himself.

Sounds like you could use a healthy dose of skepticism.



Well like everything else, you have to make your own deductions. I'm not one of those "hopefuls" of life after death. The reason I mostly believe in them is because people who I trust, and are not known for just making up stories have experienced them. Until I do myself, I will not be 100% sure. Why is it on this forum that anyone with an opinion gets shot to the ground?



[This message has been edited by gmail (edited 11-22-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by gmail:

Why is it on this forum that anyone with an opinion gets shot to the ground?

Because this is the forum where people make claims about ghosts based on shoddy evidence. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and your posts were just begging to be shot down.

theres no such thing as ghosts as far as i know i've yet to personaly encounter one so i'll belive its a hoax just like the bible.

gmail: as harsh as it may be, you're just asking for it.

I found this on google video http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5406487197364769612

Pretty interesting.

edit: I do admit that alot of the scenes do not show the things that are moved in full view, so it could be downplayed. I didnt post this to try and prove myself correct, just thought it was a pretty good video



[This message has been edited by gmail (edited 11-22-2006).]

I love when they always say they awaken from a dream or wake up during the middle of a night and become paralyzed. Definitely not Sleep Paralysis.