Yes/No

Why or Why not

thats a stupid quesiton...

I believe in God because why else would be all be here?

quote:Originally posted by deadendgirl:

I believe in God because why else would be all be here?

That makes perfect sense.

Edit: I hope you people didn't think I was serious, it's very hard to convey sarcasm through text.

[This message has been edited by open n eazy (edited 11-14-2006).]

lululul

quote:Originally posted by deadendgirl:

give me teh french fry, raaar

i'm refraining from having an intelligent argument over this because i am stressed and it would be totaly pointless

to answer the question, no i don't believe in god

quote:Originally posted by deadendgirl:

I believe in God because why else would be all be here?



You're stupid. How could you possibly make any decisions based on that assumption?

You suck at life

no



I followed directions http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

If only there were a forum for such an original discussion question..

And no, I don't believe in the existence of a perfect being. I find the whole idea silly.

no....why?...because i can think for myself..dont mean to put anybodys religion down though.

i can talk for hours about this but...fuck it.

quote:Originally posted by trippydeath:

i'm refraining from having an intelligent argument over this because i am stressed and it would be totaly pointless

to answer the question, no i don't believe in god



Agreed

quote:Originally posted by deadendgirl:

I believe in God because why else would be all be here?

Yup, me too.

I believe in my dick. And it is pretty mighty. It even scares the hell out of me!

quote:Originally posted by trippydeath:

i'm refraining from having an intelligent argument over this because i am stressed and it would be totaly pointless

to answer the question, no i don't believe in god

Why not? It seems to me like you just want to be an anti-Christian without actually knowing what you're talking about.

quote:Originally posted by deadendgirl:

Why not? It seems to me like you just want to be an anti-Christian without actually knowing what you're talking about.

I have a problem with any being that claims to be omnipotent.

quote:Originally posted by Ender:



You're stupid. How could you possibly make any decisions based on that assumption?

You suck at life

Because I have faith. Now let's here your "logical argument" for whatever insults you're going to fling my way.

I believe that My God Can Beat The Shit Out Of Your God.

quote:Originally posted by deadendgirl:

Because I have faith. Now let's here your "logical argument" for whatever insults you're going to fling my way.

Faith? What a stupid bitch.

quote:Originally posted by Butterfinger:

Faith? What a stupid bitch.

I've lost faith in SG.

no, cuz theres no proof of a god.

quote:Originally posted by Butterfinger:

Faith? What a stupid bitch.



she's not stupid,,,just brainwashed

quote:Originally posted by deadendgirl:

I believe in God because why else would be all be here?

Evolution?

I've recently changed my opinion on this subject for various reasons. So, to answer your question; Yes, I do believe in a being that exists beyond our realm and comprehension which created everything in existence.

Do I recognize any religion? No. Hell, I don't even believe in an afterlife. Granted, I don't dismiss this theory, but I'm not going to accept it as a probable truth at this particular point in time. I don't know whether or not this being or beings would even be worthy of praise or worship if it/they do truly exist considering all the tragedies in this world. However, that's another discussion for another time and I need to go to work at the moment.

Good night, everyone.

[This message has been edited by The Shady Dealer (edited 11-14-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by deadendgirl:

Why not? It seems to me like you just want to be an anti-Christian without actually knowing what you're talking about.

All you are doing is trying to piss me off. It isn't going to work because I can control myself.

I don't believe in god because I don't think that there is anything *magical* or supernatural. Nothing else is *magical* or supernatural. Also how am I anti christian? I'm not going around with a gun killing christians and burning down churches am I? I let people believe what they want if they let me believe what I want.

Also I can make my own decisions for myself and not have to have a priests cock down my throat forcing his beliefs on me.

EDIT: TSD that was a well though out post

[This message has been edited by trippydeath (edited 11-14-2006).]

Burden of proof lies on those who profess the existence of a god. I’ve yet to see any decent evidence for any of the gods, and currently a godless universe makes far more sense to me, what with evolution and the big bang, etc. etc. Therefore I am an atheist.

To not believe in something because there is no evidence for its existence is logical, to believe in something in spite of there being no evidence for its existence is illogical.

Yes, because I can http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

quote:Originally posted by The Shady Dealer:

I've recently changed my opinion on this subject for various reasons. So, to answer your question; Yes, I do believe in a being that exists beyond our realm and comprehension which created everything in existence.

If it exists beyond our comprehension then how are we discussing it?

quote:Originally posted by deadendgirl:

Because I have faith. Now let's here your "logical argument" for whatever insults you're going to fling my way.

If you want a logical argument, go to a philosophy class. They'll tear your 'faith' to shreads.

Basically, faith cannot be reasoned with. There's no such thing as transrationalism. You're either rational or irrational, and faith is irrational. There is no irrefutable proof as to god's existence (in much the same way as there is no proof to the contrary.)

If I believe in any kind of god, I'd be a deist.

quote:Originally posted by deadendgirl:

Because I have faith. Now let's here your "logical argument" for whatever insults you're going to fling my way.

All i was saying is that your reasoning is dimwitted. How old are you? You probably haven't had to make a decision for yourself before.

Personally, I am Agnostic and I don't waste my time with the things that are non proveable, things that I cannot have any true bearings on. I can get these "feelings" or have "faith" that "the lord will save my soul," but that's not something I concern my thoughts with and is completely irrational.

Edit: Grammer

[This message has been edited by Ender (edited 11-14-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by deadendgirl:

Because I have faith. Now let's here your "logical argument" for whatever insults you're going to fling my way.

*hear*

You believe in something that tells people to rape and pillage? In Judges 21, He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. When they wanted more virgins, God told them to hide alongside the road and when they saw a girl they liked, kidnap her and forcibly rape her and make her your wife. This is just on of many fuck ups God has committed.

Bit of a rooted thing to have "faith" in.

quote:Originally posted by Frosty the Stoner:

If it exists beyond our comprehension then how are we discussing it?



You know what he means

I tend to believe in things i can see... kind of helps the credibility. Also, just because you believe something doesn't make it true.

Everyone should shut up, there's no point in arguing. No one will suddenly give up their views to agree with you.

Although I must ad that if I did believe in a God, I would be what one would classify as a pantheist and deist - but I prefer the term monism.

quote:Originally posted by open n eazy:

Everyone should shut up, there's no point in arguing. No one will suddenly give up their views to agree with you.

Here here!

The arguments of saying God exists and God doesn't exist are equally impossible to prove. I don't believe in God because that entity those claim to be God complicates morals that should be a given.

[This message has been edited by Sgt. Lag (edited 11-14-2006).]

I do beleive in God.

quote:Originally posted by deadendgirl:

Why not? It seems to me like you just want to be an anti-Christian without actually knowing what you're talking about.

Assuming you're a christian. And why are you a christian? Best guess is because your parents were. That's the same with every other religion, and yet you will dismiss theirs as being folly. What makes you think there is a god? Simply because it's the easiest explanation out there for you to comprehend? That we aren't meant to? God is only a crutch for people who can't comprehend science, or who need to believe that someone is watching over them.

I bet you've never even had a proper look into the scientific explanations for the origins of the universe. You simply assume that yours is correct, without any logical explanation. Your only "evidence" is the bible. Let me put this forward to you.

Ever listened to two accounts of a crime scene/car accident? Realize how much they can vary? Doesn't that make you wonder about history, or just perhaps, something as controversial as the bible? You will see accounts from many cultures of glorified beings, simply because people take an idol and make them "better" in their mind. There are quite possibly some true things in the bible, although it's highly likely that a lot of it was exaggerated. Not to mention the fact that the bible wasn't written until 80 years after Jesus' death. Any martyr would have grown considerably in the minds of their followers in that amount of time, let alone the founder of your very faith.

Well, I can't be fucked typing anymore.

quote:Originally posted by open n eazy:

Everyone should shut up, there's no point in arguing. No one will suddenly give up their views to agree with you.

we aren't

she asked why we don't believe in god and they are telling her

As a person who places high regard on rationality, proof, and the scientific method I do not believe in a god or an afterlife. All religions are basically stories passed down to explain the unexplainable. I envy the people who can have faith like this. Ignorance is truly bliss. I would like it to be so easy that I could write everything off that I can't explain to an imaginary creature that can do anything. I heard on the news of a time that the current pope visited auchwitz. It made me giggle. The pope asked how could god let a thing like this happen? I knew the answer to that one.

Pop Quiz For all the Christians:

Guess who was born on December 25, of a virgin birth?

It was Mithras, not Jesus. This chips away at the credibility of christianity. Do you think that it is a coincidence that christianity has the same base as one of it's earliest competitors?

good point

I think most of you are just trying to be rebellious and non-comformist by not believing in God and are just trying to sound "smart" and "intellectual" by trying to discuss it. I find it funny though that you all also seem to be trying to impress me with your posts. NEWSFLASH: YOU'RE NOT! http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Everyone who replies with a post longer than a paragraph is too far up their own ass to even know what they're saying.

God is what you make it so yes I believe in God and all of you do too if you take a big close look at it.

quote:Originally posted by deadendgirl:

I think most of you are just trying to be rebellious and non-comformist by not believing in God and are just trying to sound "smart" and "intellectual" by trying to discuss it. I find it funny though that you all also seem to be trying to impress me with your posts. NEWSFLASH: YOU'RE NOT! http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

For fucks sake you ignorant hoebag, you asked to hear a "Logical argument". I hate you.

quote:Originally posted by Frosty the Stoner:

If it exists beyond our comprehension then how are we discussing it? Somehow I don't think you quite grasped what I was trying to get across with that post. The "beyond our comprehension" remark was in reference to the realm of existence this being or beings would exist in. A place beyond the laws of our reality from which a creature or creatures could construct such an intricate world, let alone universe, such as the one we reside in.

When it comes right down to it I have no evidence to support this claim. Just as you have no evidence to support the claim their isn't a God. However, as previously stated the burden of proof lays with the offensive team, not the defensive side and on this subject I'm the accuser; I'm stating my opinion on this matter which is in support of the idea of a creator. However, we're all just guessing about this subject whether you believe in the existence of something higher or not. You have a 50% shot of being right either way.

I suppose, even with the reasons I have for believing in a God my point of view still requires faith. Just like an atheists point of view would, as well. Hell, just like pretty much anything in this world requires faith to some degree, saying it's irrational is arrogant and naive considering practically everything you do requires some form of faith in something, whether it's faith based on previous circumstances remaining constant or faith based on the complete and total unknown.

A number of scientists throughout history relied on faith for a number of years while research their theories and hypotheses before they could finally prove they were correct. My faith in a higher power requires just as much faith as someone stating there isn't one or a scientist working to fit the pieces of a puzzle together without any real evidence in order to gain a better understanding out the world around him. No more, no less.

Now that all this has been said, I'll be sure to check in on the progress of this thread tomorrow. Good night.



[This message has been edited by The Shady Dealer (edited 11-14-2006).]

yes, i have encountered Him

on drugs

quote:Originally posted by deadendgirl:

I think most of you are just trying to be rebellious and non-comformist by not believing in God and are just trying to sound "smart" and "intellectual" by trying to discuss it. I find it funny though that you all also seem to be trying to impress me with your posts. NEWSFLASH: YOU'RE NOT! http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

I think you're just scared shitless of going to Hell, so you believe in God for the comfort of the idea of Heaven.

When I was nine, I put God away in the same pile as Santa, Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy. And since then I haven't seen anything, or heard a single argument that would convince me he doesn't belong there.

*Wonders why thread hasn't been shifted to 'My God...' yet*



[This message has been edited by flatplat (edited 11-14-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by deadendgirl:

I think most of you are just trying to be rebellious and non-comformist by not believing in God and are just trying to sound "smart" and "intellectual" by trying to discuss it. I find it funny though that you all also seem to be trying to impress me with your posts. NEWSFLASH: YOU'RE NOT! http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

god damn you are such an ignorant little girl. You are much too stupid to look beyond what is being fed to you, and not one person wants to impress you.

Yes, because he is the one who created a page 2.



FUCKING FLOOD. Guy above me beat me to it.

[This message has been edited by HSR (edited 11-14-2006).]

sife

quote:Originally posted by Aquabania:

yes, i have encountered Him

on drugs

Hey I met God on drugs and it was a giant living mechanical/biological machine.... and a Goddess..... and one eyed monsters..... How many Gods are there? What God/s have you made? You ready to meet them?

Yes but dont hold it against me.

There is zero reason for me to believe in a God, and going to a christian school really puts you off.

quote:Originally posted by deadendgirl:

I think most of you are just trying to be rebellious and non-comformist by not believing in God and are just trying to sound "smart" and "intellectual" by trying to discuss it. I find it funny though that you all also seem to be trying to impress me with your posts. NEWSFLASH: YOU'RE NOT! http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

You are ridiculous! You asked for a logical argument and you got it, quite well-written argument/s I might add. You also have a huge ego. Nobody cares about impressing you. You got a concise, well-written argument that was to the point. You got logical reasons for the nonexistence of a God.

There is no god, you fucking idiots.

If there was a god, then why did he wait 13 billion years to put us on this planet (And then lie and say he made everything in 7 days). Also why didn't he just leave the dinosaurs here, they didn't fuck up the earth nearly as much as we have.

Oh and the fact that the idea of god was created like 4000 years ago, when people also thought the world was flat, that there were huge half-man beasts in the woods, that there were giant monsters in the sea, and that the universe revolved around us.

If your gonna believe in god you might as well also believe in santa claus, the easter bunny, and the tooth fairy, hell if you dumb enough to believe in an all powerful being in the sky, you might as well be dumb enough to believe in a fat man who lives at the north pole (who has elf-slaves that make all the name brand toys you get at Christmas, that he delivers via his flying sled pulled by magical reindeer).

Now shut up and sit down bible fucker!



[This message has been edited by Quageschi (edited 11-14-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Whore of God:

You are ridiculous! You asked for a logical argument and you got it, quite well-written argument/s I might add. You also have a huge ego. Nobody cares about impressing you. You got a concise, well-written argument that was to the point. You got logical reasons for the nonexistence of a God.



I simply don't see how you could call those pompous pontifications "logical well-written arguments" when they're clearly just attempts to impress me. Did you even bother to read them?

The human race is sure they're being watched

by an eye in the sky that can't be stopped

when they get they get to the promise land

they're going to shake they eyes hand

quote:Originally posted by Ender:

The human race is sure they're being watched

by an eye in the sky that can't be stopped

when they get they get to the promise land

they're going to shake they eyes hand



I was in heaven I was in hell,

believe in neither but fear them as well

This one's a doctor

this one's a lawyer

this one's a cash theif

taking your money

back on the metro

ride on a greyhound

stuck on the am trax

please shut up.....

.....Doin the cockroach

EDIT: What is very interesting is that no matter how much people try to get anything through that thick girl, she'll never get it.

Haha the thought of a fat girl meaning anything to someone



[This message has been edited by stumpy (edited 11-14-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by deadendgirl:



I simply don't see how you could call those pompous pontifications "logical well-written arguments" when they're clearly just attempts to impress me. Did you even bother to read them?

Yes, I read them. raw_pwer, roy_179, avivsworld and inuteroteen all had good arguments for their lack of belief in God. You say they're trying to impress you, well you actually had to provoke trippydeath into giving his reasons for not believing in God. I don't think they were trying to impress you, rather they were trying to give their arguments.

quote:Originally posted by deadendgirl:



I simply don't see how you could call those pompous pontifications "logical well-written arguments" when they're clearly just attempts to impress me. Did you even bother to read them?

You don't get it, do you. Nobody likes you. You're a fat bitch, nobody is trying to impress you. We were just simply trying to put another fucktard Christian in their place, and it's hard not to try with one as thick as you.

quote:Originally posted by Millixion:

I believe that My God Can Beat The Shit Out Of Your God.





yes. yes I do.

Nope. But religion has done as many bad things to the human race as it has good. So I am indifferent; although I tend to judge people easily based on their religion.

quote:Originally posted by yango wango:

God is what you make it so yes I believe in God and all of you do too if you take a big close look at it.

^^By far best post as of yet.

To those who are saying a belief in God is irrational you are not clarifying what you believe this fictional "God" to be. Its sadly extremely easy to be complacent in thought and just say "That idea of the Christian god with the white robe etc... is wrong". It is very hard to analyze exactly what people mean by God. Every major religions shares these points : omnipresence, omniscience, and absolute control or containment.



So different cultures have different interpretations of Yahweh/Brahman/Allah/Tao/ with deffering views yet all beliefs recognizing a God attribute those principles to "it".Science, reason, study of the nature of reality. How do these negate the Alpha and Omega?



I believe in God because there is no other alternative. Saying there is no God (as defined by those three principles) is like being a fish and refusing to acknowledge water.

Why?Before you get all heated hear this. I was taught human beings contain reason and morality and I have felt and can reason that there is a right path and a wrong path to take in life and human beings when quieting the mind can see and feel the flow of the path. The guides of this path are morality (duty) and reason (rationale).

I have found that using reason, not perverting it my friends, always leads to the truth.

Read some immanuel Kant if youre at all interested in what I have said.Wiki that dude up.

And somebody said something about philosophy class crushing faith or something...actually my faith was only further strengthened by my philosophy course. I realized the connections in ideas of a religious nature between all people. No philosopher has made me doubt the existence of God.

Yes I am a christian.It makes the most sense to me and I will explain if you ask. read "Mere Christianity" by CS Lewis (a former atheist and about twice as intelligent as everyone in this thread) for most of my reasoning.

I wouldnt consider myself a religious person.I would like to say I am a spiritual person.

Oh God, that guy. I'm familiar with his work, and, in all honesty, it seems deeply flawed. Also, that "he used to be an atheist and is smarter than you guys" jazz doesn't work. If I wanted to, I could counter that with Dan Barker, who used to be a preacher for 19 years and converted to atheism, but I'm not an idiot.

EDIT - I'm familiar with Kant too, one of my favourite philosophers. I prefer the moral philosophy of R.M. Hare though.



[This message has been edited by Raw_Power (edited 11-14-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Quageschi:

There is no god, you fucking idiots.

If there was a god, then why did he wait 13 billion years to put us on this planet (And then lie and say he made everything in 7 days). Also why didn't he just leave the dinosaurs here, they didn't fuck up the earth nearly as much as we have.

Oh and the fact that the idea of god was created like 4000 years ago, when people also thought the world was flat, that there were huge half-man beasts in the woods, that there were giant monsters in the sea, and that the universe revolved around us.

If your gonna believe in god you might as well also believe in santa claus, the easter bunny, and the tooth fairy, hell if you dumb enough to believe in an all powerful being in the sky, you might as well be dumb enough to believe in a fat man who lives at the north pole (who has elf-slaves that make all the name brand toys you get at Christmas, that he delivers via his flying sled pulled by magical reindeer).

Now shut up and sit down bible fucker!





You put no thought into your rant.I will try to answer all your questions.

what is 13 billion years or 13 seconds to God when time is a human idea? Uh...the author of the bible isnt God. They rose and fell like all other things in life. There was a time when your left moved and a time when your right foot moved.

They lived for waaay longer than we have lived, since when did doing wrong automatically merit damnation?, Yes...and where was it going to come from, dinosaur anus? How is history proving your point? Ignorance is natural and is the first step in acquiring knowledge, You did not think that lastpart through at all.

quote:Originally posted by Raw_Power:

Oh God, that guy. I'm familiar with his work, and, in all honesty, it seems deeply flawed. Also, that "he used to be an atheist and is smarter than you guys" jazz doesn't work. If I wanted to, I could counter that with Dan Barker, who used to be a preacher for 19 years and converted to atheism, but I'm not an idiot.

EDIT - I'm familiar with Kant too, one of my favourite philosophers. I prefer the moral philosophy of R.M. Hare though.



You did not give your observance of "seeming" flaws. No jazz intended, just the truth. If it doesnt work then it doesnt(?).

About Dan Barker, well please do.

thats kickass that someone else is familiar with Kant. Yes, he is my favorite but Im sorry to say Im not familiar with the other dude. How do they differ?

Can God create a rock so heavy He can't lift it?

quote:Originally posted by DarkMe:

Can God create a rock so heavy He can't lift it?

That depends on whether God is confined by logic and non-contradiction and whether or not God is omnipotent; something we cannot possibly know, especially since we cannot even prove whether or not he exists - the burden of proof of which lies in the hands of those claiming he does exist, I might add - and all beliefs of a God are based on mere speculation.

quote:Originally posted by Raw_Power:

That depends on whether God is confined by logic and non-contradiction and whether or not God is omnipotent; something we cannot possibly know, especially since we cannot even prove whether or not he exists - the burden of proof of which lies in the hands of those claiming he does exist, I might add - and all beliefs of a God are based on mere speculation....as are all rejections of the existence of God.



Fixed

If you really look at the question reasonably, the answer is:

"There might be a god."

To say there is or isn't as if it is fact is to be unreasonable. Those who say there is a god do it out of faith, which I understand, but I don't respect that as being reasonable (partly because I somehow don't think any god would either).

Those who don't believe in god are actually more unreasonable, because they have to fight to maintain that opinion despite all that can't be proven, and plus they have nothing like faith to spur them on (instead they have fear, fear that some kind of god might actually exist).

I don't know, and I don't presume to know. I'm not sold on the idea of faith, nor on atheism. Instead of thinking that I know, I just wonder. That's all anyone really can do, whether they know it or not. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

quote:Originally posted by TruthWielder:

Fixed

Not fixed at all, my dear, not fixed at all.

You see, my atheism requires no faith. I’m merely waiting for those who proclaim the existence of a God to prove whatever it is they believe to be God to be real. You see, if someone told me that there was a giant pink dildo floating around in space, I’d be quite mad to believe him without seeing some scientific evidence first.

To not believe in something due to lack of evidence is logical, to believe in something in spite of lack of evidence is illogical.

I hope you people know I made this thread as a joke. It should have died after the 5th reply. You dumbasses should all become priests or some shit, cuz from the looks of it you're all experts in talking out of your ass. http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif)

quote:Originally posted by toker420:

no, cuz theres no proof of a god.

No, i don't believe in god.

An argument my christian friend said -

"Well you can't prove there isn't a god"

www.wikipedia.org/wiki/agnostic (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/agnostic)

quote:"Well you can't prove there isn't a god"

I shall say it once again: to not believe in something due to lack of evidence is logical, to believe in something in spite of lack of evidence is illogical. If someone told me that there was a giant pink dildo floating around in space, I’d be quite mad to believe him without seeing some scientific evidence first.

I remember a quote: "We're all atheists, some just go one God farther than others."

quote:Originally posted by Raw_Power:

Not fixed at all, my dear, not fixed at all.

You see, my atheism requires no faith. I’m merely waiting for those who proclaim the existence of a God to prove whatever it is they believe to be God to be real. You see, if someone told me that there was a giant pink dildo floating around in space, I’d be quite mad to believe him without seeing some scientific evidence first.

To not believe in something due to lack of evidence is logical, to believe in something in spite of lack of evidence is illogical.

Both belief in god and non-belief in god require that you believe in something that can't be proven, and can never be. No one can prove god exists, and no one can prove god doesn't.

The thing you're overlooking here, though, is that god can't outright prove he exists, because that would destroy free will. Free will includes the reasonable freedom to not believe.

Nobody really knows if god exists or not. They just think they do.

Edit: tpyo http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

[This message has been edited by -Morb- (edited 11-14-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by -Morb-:

Both belief in god and non-belief in god require that you believe in something that can't be proven, and can never be. No one can prove god exists, and no one can prove god doesn't.

The thing you're overlooking here, though, is that god can't outright prove he exists, because that would destroy free will. Free will includes the reasonable freedom to not believe.

Nobody really knows is god exists or not. They just think they do.

If we follow your logic, knowing that the moon exists destroys freewill, because I can no longer choose to not believe in it. Knowing that I exist destroys my freewill, because I can no longer choose to believe I don’t exist.

Once again, I am quite aware of the possibility of the existence of a God, but I am not believing until I see some evidence.

quote:Originally posted by TruthWielder:



You put no thought into your rant.I will try to answer all your questions.

what is 13 billion years or 13 seconds to God when time is a human idea? Uh...the author of the bible isnt God. They rose and fell like all other things in life. There was a time when your left moved and a time when your right foot moved.

They lived for waaay longer than we have lived, since when did doing wrong automatically merit damnation?, Yes...and where was it going to come from, dinosaur anus? How is history proving your point? Ignorance is natural and is the first step in acquiring knowledge, You did not think that lastpart through at all.

When speaking of a higher power any argument is possible because we have no idea what laws the god actually has to follow. It is simple to come up with an explanation for anything because the possibilites are endless.

Does that make any points invalid because there is no way to back anything you say up with real fact? That goes either Pro or against.

quote:Originally posted by Raw_Power:

If we follow your logic, knowing that the moon exists destroys freewill, because I can no longer choose to not believe in it. Knowing that I exist destroys my freewill, because I can no longer choose to believe I don’t exist.

Once again, I am quite aware of the possibility of the existence of a God, but I am not believing until I see some evidence.

That's not following my logic, (and it isn't my logic, it's logic that goes back to the beginning of history). The moon isn't god.

The moon isn't responsible for the creation of free will in the first place.

Don't make silly arguments like that, they waste time. And they aren't logical. They're emotional. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

If you need proof of god to believe, I believe you're missing the whole point of free will. Like I said, I doubt any god would prove they exist, for good reason. You don't need proof that this post I made here exists, there is proof beyond a reasonable doubt that it exists. That doesn't take away free will. This post might exist with or without a god. But if god proves he exists, then all bets are off, and nothing is left to faith or decision. Including this post.

If god were to prove he exists, then that would effectively wipe out every reason for living. Proving that the moon exists because of a possible god makes life very interesting and worth living indeed.





[This message has been edited by -Morb- (edited 11-14-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by -Morb-:

Those who don't believe in god are actually more unreasonable, because they have to fight to maintain that opinion despite all that can't be proven, and plus they have nothing like faith to spur them on (instead they have fear, fear that some kind of god might actually exist).

Do you actually believe that most atheists lack belief in gods because of fear and not logical reasoning? You're deluding yourself.

quote:Originally posted by -Morb-:

Both belief in god and non-belief in god require that you believe in something that can't be proven, and can never be.

Try to get this through your head, since it's been repeated several times on this forum: Lack of a belief is not a belief!

quote:Originally posted by -Morb-:

If you need proof of god to believe, I believe you're missing the whole point of free will.

You're confusing free will with faith.

quote:Originally posted by -Morb-:

If god were to prove he exists, then that would effectively wipe out every reason for living.

Every reason for living is having faith in what one thinks is the correct god? That's pathetic.

I believe in god

quote:The thing you're overlooking here, though, is that god can't outright prove he exists, because that would destroy free will. Free will includes the reasonable freedom to not believe.

You’re presupposing that there is a God, that we have free will, and that that God wants us to have free will. If there were no God, then the cold, lifeless universe would not give a fuck whether we had free will to believe or not.

As well as this, I still do not know how you come to the conclusion that knowing whether or not God exists destroys free will. Take this for example: there’s plenty of evidence for the existence of the holocaust, yet there are still people who claim that it never happened.

Of course, how you came to all these conclusions about a God is beyond me considering you openly admit that no one knows whether or not a God exists, they just think they do.

[This message has been edited by Raw_Power (edited 11-14-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by deadendgirl:

they're clearly just attempts to impress me.

That made me laugh, you see your under the illusion that we think your worth impressing. Now I have nothing against you personally, but I don't know you, nor care to, therefor myself, and many others have no desire or need to impress you.

moss2455 and others who have done the same, please put a reason for your beliefs or disbeliefs, since that was the point of this thread. I think a similer thread was made called "how can god not exist". Heres a quote from that thread:

quote:Originally posted by Viraljimmy:

It used to be god that made the sun rise every morning. It was gods or demons that made people sick. If you had mental problems, you were thought possessed by demons. When your wife couldn't get pregnant, it was god's fault.

As we have learned more about how these things work, we (most of us) quit using gods to explain them. It only follows from that, that maybe no god is needed to explain anything. And that we won't automatically put "god" in place of whatever we can't understand just yet.

That sums it up nicely.

Another thread on this topic was called To all atheists or something like that. Maybe read through that as well.

[This message has been edited by Aft3r ImaGe (edited 11-14-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by -Morb-:



The thing you're overlooking here, though, is that god can't outright prove he exists, because that would destroy free will. Free will includes the reasonable freedom to not believe.

1. Facts don't remove free will. They may make it so that stating the opposite of said fact is ridiculous or illogical, but they do not remove the free will to not believe in said fact.

2. If we're speaking of an omnipotent god then he must possess the ability to prove that he exists, while at the same time preserving free will. So even if we take your "argument" to be true, it would be, at best, unnecessarily true.

If there is a god, he's David Caruso.

Prove me wrong, theists. I'll counter you with logical fallacies and utter stupidity, and then you will come to know how atheists feel whenever you speak.

quote:Originally posted by Raw_Power:

I remember a quote: "We're all atheists, some just go one God farther than others."

Thats Richard Dawkins in case you did not know.

Oh yeah Raw_Power you probably already knew this but in case you didn't proposing that something is true because it cannot be proven false is a logical fallacy known as ad ignorantiam or in English The Argument from Ignorance. If you already knew this apologies for wasting your time.



[This message has been edited by the dillinger escape plan (edited 11-17-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by the dillinger escape plan:

Oh yeah Raw_Power you probably already knew this but in case you didn't proposing that something is true because it cannot be proven false is a logical fallacy know as ad ignorantiam or in English The Argument from Ignorance. If you already knew this apologies for wasting your time.



I'm aware of that, please read my posts. I'm aware of the possibility, but burden of proof is on those making the claim, and until they prove it true, I'm not believing.