Not to point fingers but many posters on this forum seem to fault the muslim people for the alleged use of "jihad". Which is far and wide the most misunderstood and overused term to ever exist. Plus let's open up the old history book and take a glace at Christian history shall we? Hmmm 1...2..3...4..5..6 all the way up to 16 crucades! And that's not counting Bush's crucade (as its not done yet). Yep Jihad is an evil thing...praise Jesus.

Might have something to do with the fact that the Crusades happened centuries ago and Islamic terrorism and "Jihad" is happening in the present.

quote:Originally posted by blackarmchair:

Not to point fingers but many posters on this forum seem to fault the muslim people for the alleged use of "jihad". Which is far and wide the most misunderstood and overused term to ever exist. Plus let's open up the old history book and take a glace at Christian history shall we? Hmmm 1...2..3...4..5..6 all the way up to 16 crucades! And that's not counting Bush's crucade (as its not done yet). Yep Jihad is an evil thing...praise Jesus.



So are you trying to justify modern day Jihad by events that happened over 800 years ago? Really... you could do better.

If anything, I see jihad more as a justification for despicable acts of violence. Regardless, I would be willing to bet the word jihad is going through something of a semantic change.

[This message has been edited by One_Armed_Scissor (edited 11-29-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by AeroDynamic:

Might have something to do with the fact that the Crusades happened centuries ago and Islamic terrorism and "Jihad" is happening in the present.

Thats about all one needs to know right there but, to be fair they are living VERY close to the same way they lived 800 years ago in the islamic world.

Also... alot of those 16 Crusades you mention aren't even considered crusades by most historians.

If I'm not mistaken, doesn't jihad mean to struggle and/or religious war... or something to those extents. Granted, one can relate both meanings just as easily as they can contrasted. What does it say about (insert) when a multi meaning word is so oftenly used to justify senseless, atrocious killings?

Really, how can a religion primarily compiled of peaceful, rational people tolerate such a thing as jihad?

weren't the crusades defense?

quote:Originally posted by Zman:

weren't the crusades defense?

For all practical purposes, no. They were not defensive (or did you really mean to use the word "defense"?). However, this could be argued either way, because the Byzantines asked for help from the West (from the latins) after they lost at the Battle of Manzikert.

Any formally Orthodox/Byzantine lands, which were recaptured by the Christians, were to be handed back over to the Byzantines. However, this wasn't the case.

Jihad means the "holy struggle", not neccessarilyy war. it is a struggle primarily over one's own demons of greed, lust etc. but those fuckers in iran/hezbollah twist the koran and use the "lesser offensive jihad of the sword" which is the holy war we see today to get good, naive teenagers to pick up an AK in the name of allah.

the west, seeing how the muslim leaders use the term jihad, assume it is all about the "lesser offensive jihad of the sword", and not fighting one's sins.

this "obsession" is used by the media a lot, as it is not in english, which deliberatley provokes fear, as humans fear what they do not know.

You spelled Crusade wrong.

I'm not sure if this is right, but doesn't a Jihad have to be declared by a Holy Cleric of Islam? Until then, there is no Jihad.

quote:Originally posted by postdiluvium:

I'm not sure if this is right, but doesn't a Jihad have to be declared by a Holy Cleric of Islam? Until then, there is no Jihad.

I don't think so. You are thinking of a fatwa. Doesn't really matter though because there is a fair share of extremist clerics who have declared a Jihad against the West.

that makes perfect sense, use vioence today to justify events that happen EIGHT HUNDRED YEARS AGO!

STFU!!!

Sadly current violence justified by prior violence eight hundred years ago is par for the course for the bulk of humanity.

In Islamic countries unemployment is high and you can't critisize the government unless you want risk getting sentenced to death for being accused of being an apostate of Islam. Non-muslims have absolutely no rights what so ever in these countries. The muslim fanatics want to make the entire world Islamic and have everyone live under Islamic law.

You all seem to forget that they recruit from university campuses and mosques.

And then there's the indoctrination into the jihad cause with various tricks and tools such as brotherhood, racism, bigotry and the like.

It's no different from our political/religious movements really, other than that they get AKs and RPGs.

quote:Originally posted by vazilizaitsev89:

that makes perfect sense, use vioence today to justify events that happen EIGHT HUNDRED YEARS AGO!

STFU!!!



If I do remember correctly, there's been quite a lot of modern invasion in "Islam" regions/nations.

Strating with the Russian invasion of Afghanistan and the war in Bosnia, through both Gulf wars, the entire Israël thing (percieved as a Western attack against Islam) and the political struggles in Lebanon/syria which are a delayed result of the Brittish occupation during the interbellum. (latter being a personal tought, feel free to argue otherwise)

Eight hundred years behind the civilized world sounds about right.

Can anyone comment on why this has happened? Is it because Islam has anesthetized their brains for that period of time?

I was merely pointing out the imperialist warmongering tendancies of one group compared to another. I was in no way attempting to justify the actions of every alleged muslim who claimed an act of violence as a jihad. I just find it hypocritical that so many people badmouth the Islamic faith based on the premise of the existance of Jihad. When the christian faith has the same concept and exercizes it more openly.

quote:Originally posted by woodlander:

Eight hundred years behind the civilized world sounds about right.

Can anyone comment on why this has happened? Is it because Islam has anesthetized their brains for that period of time?

Being hit by the Christian Crusades on their western front while being hit by the Khans on their eastern front pretty much stopped middle eastern muslims at where they stood at that point in time. As for muslims in the rest of the world, they are mainly in 3rd world countries.

All the nations that carved the globe through imperialization where christian nations. Which is probably why industrialized nations are majorly christian with small muslim populations.

This belongs in My God.

-=Sephiroth=-

Muslims and Christians can both justify what they have and are doing by using their holy texts, go read them.

I promise you that the Christians who were burning heretics back then had read the bible "if you find someone who does not want to worship under me bring him forth and slay him before me" are words of Jesus from the New testament, the bad isnt just in the old, although the old is far worse.

If you read Islamic or Christian/jewish holy texts theyre just as intollerant, just as sadistic and just as hate filled as the people on Earth carrying out these kinds of actions in their Gods name.

"if you find someone who does not want to worship under me bring him forth and slay him before me"

Where the fuck did Jesus say that?

quote:Originally posted by Hexadecimal:

"if you find someone who does not want to worship under me bring him forth and slay him before me"

Where the fuck did Jesus say that?

"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me" (Luke 19.27)

[This message has been edited by among_the_living (edited 11-30-2006).]

I think this forum got a little off topic and out of hand. I was really trying to focus on the subject of jihad and how its overplayed in the Western world especially in recent years.

And as per the slandering I recieved for referencing 800 year old events as fuel for my argument I would like to present some modern ones. To anyone who doubts the modern imperialism of the Christian faith. Until the early 1900's (around WWI) Christian missionaries were forcefully converting the native people's of the Western US, Hawaii, the Far East, the Pacific Islands, and most of Africa. The current pope is-quite literally- A NAZI! And I believe it was the devot christian and leader of the free world George W. Bush who described the conflicts in the middle east as a "great crusade".

Touche.

Islam is the most evil ideology that ever existed on earth.

http://c4rpme.org/christians.html

quote:Originally posted by Laboratorio Farmaceutico:

Islam is the most evil ideology that ever existed on earth.

http://c4rpme.org/christians.html

I'd say that genocide is...but what do I know?

christianity is just as bad.

except in today world christians preach to muslims world wide and get killed for it, but the exreme islamics want to preach with an AK to your face

Yes there are extreamist muslims. Yes they are violent but they DO NOT represent the MUSLIM COMMUNITY as a whole! If we were to judge groups by one bad individual then all Germans are Nazis, all Americans support the killing of indians, and all Christians wish to kill any pagans. Which is far from true. There will always be Bin Laden's and Saddam Husseins. Just like there will always be Adolf Hitlers and white racist groups like the KKK. Do all white people enjoy burning crosses and niggers? No. The KKK is a white terrorist group that supposedly (at least loosley) follows a christian docterine. Does that mean any and all christians want to kill african americans? No. Yet the general populace seems more than willing to condem the entirity of Islam based on the actions of a small CIA-founded terrorist group.

blackarmchair mentioned something important:

The Federal Government, through brainwashing and arms trading, CREATED the terrorists we're fighting today...they CREATED the 9/11 hijackers...they CREATED bin Laden and Hussein...they CREATED the Taliban. We are currently sending our soldiers to die fighting an enemy that we purposefully created with the intent to stave off the USSR. Turns out what we created is a shit-load worse than socialist warmongers.

The wars of the last 30 years have nothing to do with Islam or Christianity...it's political tyranny of the last half-century backfired on the tyrant (the tyrant being our government).

quote:Originally posted by blackarmchair:

Yes there are extreamist muslims. Yes they are violent but they DO NOT represent the MUSLIM COMMUNITY as a whole! If we were to judge groups by one bad individual then all Germans are Nazis, all Americans support the killing of indians, and all Christians wish to kill any pagans. Which is far from true. There will always be Bin Laden's and Saddam Husseins. Just like there will always be Adolf Hitlers and white racist groups like the KKK. Do all white people enjoy burning crosses and niggers? No. The KKK is a white terrorist group that supposedly (at least loosley) follows a christian docterine. Does that mean any and all christians want to kill african americans? No. Yet the general populace seems more than willing to condem the entirity of Islam based on the actions of a small CIA-founded terrorist group.



good point, thats why i always say extremist muslims, or radical islam instead of just muslim/islam,

but one number i heard i think it was in that obsession documentery (who knows how much that is creditable though, that could have been made to inflict more fear then fact) but they said 400 million of the 1.2 billion support the fundamentelists

quote:Originally posted by boozehound420:



good point, thats why i always say extremist muslims, or radical islam instead of just muslim/islam,

but one number i heard i think it was in that obsession documentery (who knows how much that is creditable though, that could have been made to inflict more fear then fact) but they said 400 million of the 1.2 billion support the fundamentelists



Well that number seems more than just a little exagerrated but there probably is a substantial following in some of the middle eastern countries but that's a result of crimes the western world has commited against them.