1. Considering that he can do anything, why didn’t God simply wipe out all of the humans he disliked with the click of his fingers, therefore saving Noah and his family the trouble of having to build a boat, round up animals, round up enough food for all the animals and themselves, and then spend forty days and forty nights on the ship?

2. Where did all of the water come from and where did it all go?

3. After all of the salt from the seawater covered the earth, how was it possible for any plants to grow? During Saladin's siege of Rome, he sowed salt along the Italian countryside. Nothing grows anywhere he sowed salt. Seaweed grows well in saltwater, but grain doesn't grow very well in salty soil, fruit trees don't grow well, basically no land plants grow in saltwater or can even tolerate significant amounts of salt.

4. How was it possible for Noah to round up every animal, including all species of insects and predators and kept the predators and insects from eating each other?

5. The size for the ship given in the Bible is nowhere near big enough for two of every single animal.

6. Some animals only eat certain things and can only live in certain climates. How did he get bamboo for the pandas and the right temperature for all the lizards and the special kind of plants insects can eat?

7. There were only eight people. So how did they manage to feed all of the animals and shovel all of their crap and piss off of the boat? Bare in mind how many animals we’re talking here.

8. There is evidence that there was a partial flood. But the Bible said world flood and is therefore lying. A partial flood is nothing special and plenty of people survived, showing the Bible false. Also, this flood is in many religions.

9. How did they exercise all of the animals? Animals need exercise or their muscles go. Can you imagine Noah walking an elephant up and down a cramped boat?

10. Some Christians explain it was one of every kind of animal, therefore one sort of cat, etc. But this would imply that by the time of the Roman empire, when various animals were document, the cats would have had to of evolved into all other cats. But literalist Christians don’t believe in evolution, and that is too short of a period for the animals to evolve in.

11. It is clear to anyone with intelligence that this is a load of rubbish, therefore some say it’s a parable, but that causes other problems about what is and isn’t a parable in the Bible, etc. etc.

So as you can see, this whole story is pretty much rubbish.

1. Since when has god done anything easy? God never seems to do anything the quick way, wheres the fun in that?

2. The Earth was covered in a canopy of water. I'm not sure if its much of an analogy but I guess it was like the ozone layer, thus the reason that most of the people at the time mocked Noah about the prospect of rain (God gave Noah the gift of a rainbow, saying that something like the flood would never happen again. So, it makes sense that it may have not rained as it does today before the flood). I'd say a lot of the fallen rain feel and made new oceans and it could have become ice.

3. I'm not sure of this, since this is proved by science. So, I'm not going anywhere near it.

4. How is it possible for one family that survives the flood to produce all the different races and colours we have today.

5. They went economy.

6. If you believe in the bible, you have to understand that if the Earth is covered in water that the climate and over all temperature would change, most animals would probably have hibernated, and the others would have to made do. Ever taken a dog on a road trip? A couple of weeks later the dogs doing fine and all its eaten is nachos and coke.

7. I bet if they can make a large boat moving shit and throwing grass and nachos wasn't a big of a deal. Besides, they were on a boat, nothing much else to do besides fuck and shovel.

8. Ha. I'm glad you brought this up. Most of it is up to personal scepticism. I have nothing to say about the size of the flood, as long as it did what god said it did I guess he could have gotten away with it.

9. I bet the animals could have entertained themselves. "Can you imagine Noah walking an elephant up and down a cramped boat?" Yes...Yes I can

10. This is the type of question you should be asking a geneticist. i.e. Not me.

11. The bible is a book, whether or not it has divine backings is up to the reader. There are a lot of scientific holes in the bible, but people often swallow a lot of it because they can't explain it. Perhaps it did happen, perhaps it didn't, maybe the bible is a big hoax or a joke, but now it doesnt matter. I believe the bible is for self interpretation, if you think its true, the it is, if you don't then its not.

I guess, I'm as confused about the entire thing as much as you are. I'm not saying what I've said is true and I'm definitely not saying your wrong I just wanted to write what I thought about it.

Hope I haven't confused you anymore than you already where.

EDIT : Spelling.

[This message has been edited by 404_error (edited 12-01-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Raw_Power:

1. Considering that he can do anything, why didn’t God simply wipe out all of the humans he disliked with the click of his fingers, therefore saving Noah and his family the trouble of having to build a boat, round up animals, round up enough food for all the animals and themselves, and then spend forty days and forty nights on the ship?

2. Where did all of the water come from and where did it all go?

3. After all of the salt from the seawater covered the earth, how was it possible for any plants to grow? During Saladin's siege of Rome, he sowed salt along the Italian countryside. Nothing grows anywhere he sowed salt. Seaweed grows well in saltwater, but grain doesn't grow very well in salty soil, fruit trees don't grow well, basically no land plants grow in saltwater or can even tolerate significant amounts of salt.

4. How was it possible for Noah to round up every animal, including all species of insects and predators and kept the predators and insects from eating each other?

5. The size for the ship given in the Bible is nowhere near big enough for two of every single animal.

6. Some animals only eat certain things and can only live in certain climates. How did he get bamboo for the pandas and the right temperature for all the lizards and the special kind of plants insects can eat?

7. There were only eight people. So how did they manage to feed all of the animals and shovel all of their crap and piss off of the boat? Bare in mind how many animals we’re talking here.

8. There is evidence that there was a partial flood. But the Bible said world flood and is therefore lying. A partial flood is nothing special and plenty of people survived, showing the Bible false. Also, this flood is in many religions.

9. How did they exercise all of the animals? Animals need exercise or their muscles go. Can you imagine Noah walking an elephant up and down a cramped boat?

10. Some Christians explain it was one of every kind of animal, therefore one sort of cat, etc. But this would imply that by the time of the Roman empire, when various animals were document, the cats would have had to of evolved into all other cats. But literalist Christians don’t believe in evolution, and that is too short of a period for the animals to evolve in.

11. It is clear to anyone with intelligence that this is a load of rubbish, therefore some say it’s a parable, but that causes other problems about what is and isn’t a parable in the Bible, etc. etc.

So as you can see, this whole story is pretty much rubbish.

1. The flood was to symbolise a fresh start.

2.The water came from rain. The world is 75% water, so it came from the water cycle.

3.I don't know. What happens to the salt from rainwater normally? The same thing obviously happened.

4.If you believe the Bible, God summoned them.

5.Translations can get it wrong. He was working on it for months and months, it was very big.

6.I think it did not last very long. Therefore they coould survive as long as they had water and some food.

7.I am not sure. Theywould have found a way though. On a similiar note, how can Noah build such a big boat? Never underestinmate human improvisation.

8.It has been many years. Evidence would have been lost over time.

9.The timescale would not have been long enough for these problems.

10.Diverse radiation evolution. Google it.

11.It could very well be a symbolist. I personally believe God can solve all these problems. I might be wrong, but I don't think so.

God can make the entire world (if your christian) he could handle these problems.

the onus is not on science to prove why noah's flood did not occur. it is extremely difficult to prove a negative like that.

the onus is on religion to prove it did. until someone does that, its all just pissing into the wind.

First let me say: Anyone who takes the bible THAT seriously, is kinda dumb =P religious or not. Most people, religious or not, accept that they're just supposed to be "good stories".

The difference begins when people start to actually believe there's some holy dude in the sky that actually gives a damn what we do.

And secondly: I'm not religious so don't give me any "you stupid god loving blah blah" crap.

First let me say: Anyone who takes the bible THAT seriously, is more than a little dumb =P

Most people, religious or not, accept that they're just supposed to be "good stories."

The difference begins when people start to actually believe there's some holy dude in the sky that actually gives a damn what we do.

From a biological point of view:

You need atleast 100 of a species so they can populate again. Anything less would result in so much inbreeding they would die off.

quote:Originally posted by ShouldTrip:

From a biological point of view:

You need atleast 100 of a species so they can populate again. Anything less would result in so much inbreeding they would die off.

it irritates me when people say shit they have no idea about.

cheetahs are very genetically similar. so similar biologists say that the entire population at one time consisted of seven individuals. except for the whole hunting thing, they are doing very well.

STOP POSTING BULLSHIT!

[This message has been edited by RAOVQ (edited 12-01-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by 404_error:

1. Since when has god done anything easy? God never seems to do anything the quick way, wheres the fun in that? [quote]

Evidently your God is a dick.

[quote]2. The Earth was covered in a canopy of water. I'm not sure if its much of an analogy but I guess it was like the ozone layer, thus the reason that most of the people at the time mocked Noah about the prospect of rain (God gave Noah the gift of a rainbow, saying that something like the flood would never happen again. So, it makes sense that it may have not rained as it does today before the flood). I'd say a lot of the fallen rain feel and made new oceans and it could have become ice. [quote]

Oh, a canopy of water, huh? Can you prove there was a canopy of water? There's nothing saying there is in the Bible, and I'm pretty sure that would contradict science.

[quote]3. I'm not sure of this, since this is proved by science. So, I'm not going anywhere near it.

lol

quote:4. How is it possible for one family that survives the flood to produce all the different races and colours we have today.

It's not. It takes millions of years of evolution, that's why it's bullshit.

quote:5. They went economy.

Proper answers or no answers, please.

quote:6. If you believe in the bible, you have to understand that if the Earth is covered in water that the climate and over all temperature would change, most animals would probably have hibernated, and the others would have to made do. Ever taken a dog on a road trip? A couple of weeks later the dogs doing fine and all its eaten is nachos and coke.

Not all animals hibernate, and it is impossible to have all the climates needed for all the animals in one place unless you have modern technology. Polar Bears and Iguanas can not live together in the same climate, they'd die.

quote:7. I bet if they can make a large boat moving shit and throwing grass and nachos wasn't a big of a deal. Besides, they were on a boat, nothing much else to do besides fuck and shovel.

That's a stupid answer. Do you know how many animals there are? There's millions of animals. All the different insects, dogs, cats, elephants, lizards, etc. etc. etc. And only eight people. It'd be impossible.

quote:8. Ha. I'm glad you brought this up. Most of it is up to personal scepticism. I have nothing to say about the size of the flood, as long as it did what god said it did I guess he could have gotten away with it.

The Bible said it was a world flood, therefore the Bible is lying.

quote:9. I bet the animals could have entertained themselves. "Can you imagine Noah walking an elephant up and down a cramped boat?" Yes...Yes I can

Once again, a stupid answer. A lot of animals need excercise or else their muscles give in and they're not able to walk anymore. It would be impossible based on the size of the boat given in the Bible to have space for all the millions of animals AND to be able to walk them up and down the boat.

quote:10. This is the type of question you should be asking a geneticist. i.e. Not me.

No, it is clearly too short of a period of time for ALL animals to evolve. FACT.

Oh, and I'm not confused. I'm merely showing how stupid the how thing is.

quote:Originally posted by Kage:

1. The flood was to symbolise a fresh start.

Couldn't he have just put a nice rainbow up in the sky and clicked the babies out of existence instead of making their lungs fill up with water until they pass out and die?

quote:2.The water came from rain. The world is 75% water, so it came from the water cycle.

That's a lot of rain. And where did it all go?

quote:3.I don't know. What happens to the salt from rainwater normally? The same thing obviously happened.

Not when THAT MUCH WATER IS COVERING EVERYTHING. Ever been on a beach or underwater? Ever wonder why plants don't grow there?

quote:4.If you believe the Bible, God summoned them.

Do you realize how hard it is for some animals to travel? Take the sloth for example, you know how slow those things are? And imagine the long journey it would take some of them. They'd be dead before they reach the ark. And some of them need their climate, they couldn't leave it to get to the boat. And some of them need certain food only in their climate, you think that pandas are going to strap a bag of bamboo to their back that will last them a very long journey?

quote:5.Translations can get it wrong. He was working on it for months and months, it was very big.

Yes, I'm sure eight people were able to build a boat big enough for millions on millions of animals. And I'm going to need some evidence that the size given in the Bible isn't correct.

quote:6.I think it did not last very long. Therefore they coould survive as long as they had water and some food.

OK, that's stupid. It lasted forty days and forty nights according to the Bible. You do realize how much food they'd need to feed all of those millions of animals, right? And you're forgetting that some animals, like spiders, eat live animals and some only plants from certain areas. They'd have to gather it all up.

quote:7.I am not sure. Theywould have found a way though. On a similiar note, how can Noah build such a big boat? Never underestinmate human improvisation.

He didn't build that big of a boat. And you have not given a valid answer.

quote:8.It has been many years. Evidence would have been lost over time.

Bullshit. There's plenty of documents for that time. Go on wiki and look up the flood. In fact, the reason there are no documents about it in China is because China wasn't flooded, and believe me, they kept LOTS of documents. Seriously, just go on wiki and look up the world flood. You'll see how stupid your answer is.

quote:9.The timescale would not have been long enough for these problems.

I disagree. Forty days and forty nights is a long time to be crammed with no excercise. You know that they have to move the legs of people in comas so that their muscles don't give way?

quote:10.Diverse radiation evolution. Google it.

I'm aware of it, but there's much more evidence that it took millions of years for most animals and that diverse radiation would not take into account all the millions of millions of animals.

quote:11.It could very well be a symbolist. I personally believe God can solve all these problems. I might be wrong, but I don't think so.

Of course, the old "god did it" argument. Well please, prove "god did it" with more than the Bible to back you up, because nowhere in the Bible did it say "god did it", it's clear Noah did most of the work. But of course, you can interpret the Bible however you want, it is THAT easy to misintrepret it. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

Most of the Bible is myth and/or metaphor, including the Naoah's ark story.

Most cultures have some sort of great flood myth.

Noah's flood is a fact if you look at the fossil evidence. Creatures that would drown and sink first, like trilobites and jawless fish, are lower down. Then coal, which sinks fast. And then people and buffalo, cause they are real good at the swimming, are on top. Saber tooth cats got left off the boat cause they scared the unicorns.

quote:Originally posted by Raw_Power:

OK, that's stupid. It lasted forty days and forty nights according to the Bible.

Actualy the Bible said it rained for fourty days and fourty nights. It was over a years from the time they got on to the time they got off.

quote:Originally posted by Kage:

3.I don't know. What happens to the salt from rainwater normally? The same thing obviously happened.

7.I am not sure. They would have found a way though. On a similiar note, how can Noah build such a big boat? Never underestinmate human improvisation.

8.It has been many years. Evidence would have been lost over time.

10.Diverse radiation evolution. Google it.



Are those jokes or are you retarded?

quote:Originally posted by Viraljimmy:

Noah's flood is a fact if you look at the fossil evidence. Creatures that would drown and sink first, like trilobites and jawless fish, are lower down. Then coal, which sinks fast. And then people and buffalo, cause they are real good at the swimming, are on top. Saber tooth cats got left off the boat cause they scared the unicorns.

Please tell me that was a joke post, please.

quote:Originally posted by Raw_Power:

Please tell me that was a joke post, please. Um, of course it was.



You cannot take things in the Bible as completely literal. Through many translations, time, etc. a lot of the original meanings were lost or changed, in some cases deliberately. Anyone who tried to present the Bible as being completely literal in everything is just dumb.

who cares? really who fuckin cares? it a STORY!

quote:Originally posted by vazilizaitsev89:

who cares? really who fuckin cares? it a STORY!

Those who take the story literally care, and those of us who can't believe that idiots exist who take the story literally care.

Teaching those who believe that it could possibly have happened is a good way to pass on some much needed critical thinking skills. Stubbornness and unwillingness to reject what they've been brought up with often results, but oh well. This forum is for those of us who want to discuss such things regardless. Dropping by to post "who cares?" accomplishes nothing and is an example of trolling.

Bump, 'cause I'm tired of looking at King's stretched post.

1. Considering that he can do anything, why didn’t God simply wipe out all of the humans he disliked with the click of his fingers, therefore saving Noah and his family the trouble of having to build a boat, round up animals, round up enough food for all the animals and themselves, and then spend forty days and forty nights on the ship?

Because it's more fun this way? I mean, if he just clicked his fingers and it all went away, what lesson would be in that? Sure, may be it would've sort of all been the same, but it just wouldn't've been that good of a story. Not good enough to be passed down from generation to generation to generation...

2. Where did all of the water come from and where did it all go?

According to popular belief there was a massive deep sea earthquake which sent tsunamis all over the world. The area that Noah supposedly lived in was at the basin in front of a valley that seperated it from the sea. When the tsunami hit all the water poured in through the valley, flooding the basin. It probably seemed like the entire world was flooded. Certainly, though, as with any flood, the water soaked into the earth and evaporated.

3. After all of the salt from the seawater covered the earth, how was it possible for any plants to grow? During Saladin's siege of Rome, he sowed salt along the Italian countryside. Nothing grows anywhere he sowed salt. Seaweed grows well in saltwater, but grain doesn't grow very well in salty soil, fruit trees don't grow well, basically no land plants grow in saltwater or can even tolerate significant amounts of salt.

To this day not much does grow in that area. Not naturally at least. However, in the last 50 - 100 years that land are has been so irrigated and renovated that I highly doubt even a huge flood being thousands of years ago would have much effect on the modern day farming in the area.

4. How was it possible for Noah to round up every animal, including all species of insects and predators and kept the predators and insects from eating each other?

Probably not possible. May be god made it possible through "gods will", may be they just gathered all the animals they knew of. I mean new species are discovered every day, it's pretty unlikely they got two of every species ever. But, as far as how they kept them from fighting it states in the bible that god made is so that as long as they were on the boat none of the animals would fight nor would they mate.

5. The size for the ship given in the Bible is nowhere near big enough for two of every single animal.

In the bible they describe the size of the boat in cubits. Do you even know how big a cubit is? I don't. Moreover, it's common scientific belief that they've found the supposed Noahs Arc and it is far big enough to accomodate two of every animal. It's about the size of a dozen barges.

6. Some animals only eat certain things and can only live in certain climates. How did he get bamboo for the pandas and the right temperature for all the lizards and the special kind of plants insects can eat?

May be he didn't? May be pandas didn't need to be saved. Especially since there were no pandas in that area. They probably didn't even know about pandas.

7. There were only eight people. So how did they manage to feed all of the animals and shovel all of their crap and piss off of the boat? Bare in mind how many animals we’re talking here.

I don't think that sounds that that impossible. I mean, your other questions seem valid but this one just seems lazy. I mean, eight people who have prepared for a long period of time could probably handle a large boat of animals for 40 days and nights with the help of their supposed almight god who clearly performs miracles left a freaking right.

8. There is evidence that there was a partial flood. But the Bible said world flood and is therefore lying. A partial flood is nothing special and plenty of people survived, showing the Bible false. Also, this flood is in many religions.

It wasn't too long ago that most people believed the world was flat. Were they lying when they said so? If you grew up in a village in the desert, no TV, no internet, no cell phone, you've never even seen an Asian person most likely, and your village gets drowned in a huge flood that covers all the land you've ever seen, you may think the whole world has been flooded. You may feel that this is the wrath of god flooding all of existance. May be it wasn't perfect scientific fact, but that's what was relevant at the time that it was written. So, it was not the bible that lied any more than saying the earth was flat was a lie 500 years ago.

9. How did they exercise all of the animals? Animals need exercise or their muscles go. Can you imagine Noah walking an elephant up and down a cramped boat?

Again, this is a stupid question. I mean, after all of this bombascity and fantasicalism you're really interested in if Noah walked his elephants? It's like you're just making up questions for the hell of it now. Uh, I think if god can make the animals not fight or mate he can fix the whole excercise problem... Besides it's surprising how resilient animals can be.

10. Some Christians explain it was one of every kind of animal, therefore one sort of cat, etc. But this would imply that by the time of the Roman empire, when various animals were document, the cats would have had to of evolved into all other cats. But literalist Christians don’t believe in evolution, and that is too short of a period for the animals to evolve in.

As for cats even if only one sort of cat was taken aboard the boat a single cat carries a lot of DNA and if you've ever seen a litter not even purebreds create perfect litters. It wouldn't just be possible for cats to create different strains quickly, it would be unavoidable.

11. It is clear to anyone with intelligence that this is a load of rubbish, therefore some say it’s a parable, but that causes other problems about what is and isn’t a parable in the Bible, etc. etc.

This isn't a question. Nor is it apparent that it's "a load of rubbish". That long ago if you came across a talking parrot you may think it's an angel. If you saw someone born deformed you may think they're a demon. We're talking about a world where there wasn't just a different way of measuring and timing things, but very little communication and therefore education, and world where the planet was flat, a world they didn't know where mold came from, a world that didn't know what germs were! It is not "a load of rubbish" just compiled to confuse and misguide you. They are books that were created with the knowledge they felt they had at the time with the intention of guiding, educating, and helping people. Perhaps they do not do they're job perfectly. Perhaps they are faulty and sometimes just wrong, but they are not just "a load of rubbish".

Besides, this coming from a boy who needs to ask the most basic questions. You've clearly never even read the bible.

Cheers,

Lost