Now I'd like to make it clear that I'm not against Muslims in general, one of my best friends is an Iraqi born guy that was brought up in Manchester and he tries his best to keep to the non drinking (doesn't drink), not taking drugs, not eating on Ramadan lifestyle, he reads the Koran a fair amount as well.

It's Muslim extremists that get on my tits.

For a while, I had a certain respect for them. It wasn't their extremism, but my belief that the Western world has done a lot to Eastern countries that retaliation was bound to happen. I don't believe in killing innocent people, but both the UK and the US have been bigger terrorists and continue today to do things they shouldn't/

My problem is this "Death to the Infidel", death to anyone who criticizes Islam.

Imagine, if everyone who was a Christian and heard someone make fun of Christianity did that. The streets would be lined with blood. I'm not neglecting the fact that there aren't Christian extremists out there but why is it that extremism spreads so quickly through Islam.. the fact you hear about killings and promises of death so much more often.

It makes me sad that these people can be so close minded. To be doing these things would be to be doing a complete 180 on the teachings laid about by Jesus, which supposedly to a certain degree the Islamist extremists are supposed to follow.

Mohammed was a prophet, not a God and to have him revered as one is (IMO) silly. Extremists need to be slapped with the New Testament a bit. I'm an agnostic personally, but I have a bit of respect for a lot of the teachings laid down in the bible (though some of them are a bit fucked in the head, others stand true).

They need to turn the other cheek. Or at least walk a few miles in someone else's shoes. They should not be the one to judge, God is there for a reason (if he exists).

I digress, it's all just down to different interpretations I suppose.

I agree with bits and pieces of your post.

I agree that extremist of all forms are detrimental to mankind. I also agree with the fact that you have respect for all religions, as do I.

However, I feel like you might be a bit miseducated. One does not need to go to far back in history to see that Christians have killed thousands of people because they were not believers.

I am not trying to single out Christianity, but rather to show that it is not only Islam that has bad seeds.

I am also agnostic.

quote:Originally posted by AnAsTaSiO:

I agree with bits and pieces of your post.

I agree that extremist of all forms are detrimental to mankind. I also agree with the fact that you have respect for all religions, as do I.

However, I feel like you might be a bit miseducated. One does not need to go to far back in history to see that Christians have killed thousands of people because they were not believers.

I am not trying to single out Christianity, but rather to show that it is not only Islam that has bad seeds.

I am also agnostic.

I think that Christians who kill others were not true Christians.

I think the crusades weren't just about religion, I believe a certain desire to acquire territory was there as well, with religion being a sort of rallying card.

quote:Originally posted by ZeroMalarki:

I think that Christians who kill others were not true Christians.

I think the crusades weren't just about religion, I believe a certain desire to acquire territory was there as well, with religion being a sort of rallying card.

I agree that the crusades were not solely of religious reasons, however to say that they were not Christians is a bit ridiculous.

Was it Christians who started the Inquisition?

Was it Christians in Salem?

Was it Christians who killed each other in Ireland?

The answers are yes.

Again, this is not to bash Christianity but rather to make it known that the evils of religon are not solely Islamic.

I agree with you on most general points. But the general tolerance of Christians toward badmouthing is a relitivley new development. Hell, they used to burn people for it. I believe the Spanish in particualr had fun with the word "Heritic".

quote:Originally posted by blackarmchair:

I agree with you on most general points. But the general tolerance of Christians toward badmouthing is a relitivley new development. Hell, they used to burn people for it. I believe the Spanish in particualr had fun with the word "Heritic".

That's a good point. I just wish extremists could come to accept a tolerance.

What I was saying about them not being proper Christians is that if they had any understanding of what Christianity should be about (or at least my understanding, based on the biblical teaching I was given) is that tolerance is important. Further more, the atrocities that have been commited in the past (NO-ONE EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION) were orchestrated by people who did not lead proper Christian lives and in effect were hypocrits.

"My problem is this "Death to the Infidel", death to anyone who criticizes Islam."

Thats what it preaches in the Koran, theyre following what they believe to be gods word.

"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."

- Jesus (Luke 19:27)

The Spanish Inquisitors weren't hypocrites, they just cherry picked different verses than you. Just as you cherry pick verses that make Jesus look all loving and kind. The fact of the matter is that Jesus was a bit of both; he condoned evil things like slavery (he even went so far as to instruct slaves to be dutiful of their masters) and said several times that most of humanity would be going to an eternity of damnation, then he said good things like "love your neighbor as yourself". But it's all a matter of what you cherry pick and piece together for what you want to believe. If you pick the lovey-dubby Jesus, you'll gloss over his dark, cynical side; if you pick the angry-kill-the-heretics Jesus, you'll gloss over the his kinder, gentler side. But to say that one side or the other can't be justified by scripture is bunk.

Furthermore, I have to say I'm rather disgusted with your whole "I believe we should all tolerate each others beliefs and live happy" bullshit. Grow some fucking balls. If you give half a shit about the future advancement of mankind and civilization, you will realize we cannot tolerate religious lunacy. Moderation is a prerequisite for fanaticism. If all the fanatics in the world suddenly disappeared and only kind moderates were left, it would only be a matter of a few generations, at most, before fanaticism would start anew. So long as there is belief in Yahweh or Allah, there will be those willing to forsake rationallity and logic and violently oppress those who don't agree with them.

[This message has been edited by Elephantitis Man (edited 12-03-2006).]

Yet you're just as much a fanatic in your intolerance towards religions...

Humanity cannot be saved by abandoning or embracing religion. If you haven't come to accept that our race is headed for extinction, you're delusional.

quote:Originally posted by Hexadecimal:

Yet you're just as much a fanatic in your intolerance towards religions...

Humanity cannot be saved by abandoning or embracing religion. If you haven't come to accept that our race is headed for extinction, you're delusional.

How am I a fanatic? Part of the definition of "fanatic" is that their motivation is irrational. It doesn't take much effort to see the vast amount of unnecessary pain and suffering religion has brought humanity over the years. I'm not proposing that religious people be killed or persecuted. The only solution I can really see to religious fundamentalism is education, the promotion of free thought, and perhaps a bit of disrespect is due for those who shun reason (take a look at the people in the link below before you throw a fit about this suggestion). If you have a difficult time seeing what religion does, and why I am so opposed to it, just take a look at this list. (http://fstdt.com/top100.asp) And literally millions of people think like those in that list. That is what I'm against.

And how do you get this idea that we are headed for extinction? Why the pessimism? Not that humanity's extinction isn't probable, but there is a possibility to either postpone it, or even prevent it entirely (at least until there are no places for humans to live). This is the future, it is undecided; why automatically assume the worst?



[This message has been edited by Elephantitis Man (edited 12-03-2006).]

Christians aren't persecuting people like they were hundreds of years ago. Its the muslims that are the problem now.

post pics

quote:Originally posted by Laboratorio Farmaceutico:

Christians aren't persecuting people like they were hundreds of years ago. Its the muslims that are the problem now.

Christians aren't prosecuting people anymore? Sure they are its just not official anymore. Why do you think the fucking pope speaks out against gays and Islam? Hmmm....maybe its the Nazi in him...

quote:Originally posted by among_the_living:

"My problem is this "Death to the Infidel", death to anyone who criticizes Islam."

Thats what it preaches in the Koran, theyre following what they believe to be gods word.

Don't be assinine. Jihad was actually a right given to the muslims to DEFEND THEMSELVES from threats against their people. The true terrorists, those who wage unjust war are not manifesting true Jihad. They're sinning.

quote:Originally posted by blackarmchair:

Don't be assinine. Jihad was actually a right given to the muslims to DEFEND THEMSELVES from threats against their people. The true terrorists, those who wage unjust war are not manifesting true Jihad. They're sinning.

quote:Originally posted by Elephantitis Man:

If all the fanatics in the world suddenly disappeared and only kind moderates were left, it would only be a matter of a few generations, at most, before fanaticism would start anew. So long as there is belief in Yahweh or Allah, there will be those willing to forsake rationallity and logic and violently oppress those who don't agree with them.

QFT.

Bump, 'cause I'm tired of looking at King's stretched post.