Ok so iv been reading alot about this no self thing in buddhism but I dont quite understand it. I know that its reincarnation, but wut I want to know is what the extent of the reincarnation is. I'v read about the 5 different parts that make us up in buddhism but wut I really want to know is that does this mean I am sumone different in my next life and I was sumone different in my previous life? And than also why am I conscious of this life and not of others, or am I?

quote:Originally posted by Freedom Hippie:

does this mean I am sumone different in my next life and I was sumone different in my previous life? And than also why am I conscious of this life and not of others, or am I?

1. yes

2. Because you have forgotten.

so will I be concious of any life after this one?

Yes kind of like when you were a baby, you did stuff, were conscious for every bit, and were that little, but you don't remember.

so does that mean that everything we ever did in all of our past lives stays with us, its just not remembered?

quote:Originally posted by Freedom Hippie:

so does that mean that everything we ever did in all of our past lives stays with us, its just not remembered?

Yes, it seems to be understood in this way.

so is their any way to remember any of this forgotten past?

I think I have heard something about techniques to do so, but I haven't tried any of them and don't remember what they were or where I heard of them.

quote:Originally posted by Seriously:

I think I have heard something about techniques to do so, but I haven't tried any of them and don't remember what they were or where I heard of them.

So have I. It would be interesting wouldn't it?

yes that would be very interesting to know who i was before I was me.

edit-

also I'm still a little fuzzy on the reincarnation thing. I am not the same person in the next life. What makes me different in the next life than this life?

[This message has been edited by Freedom Hippie (edited 12-06-2006).]

I don't know. Although, I think it's because even though your karma and memories move on, your mind dies(therefor your ego).

Also, you would be a different person because culture and society have a large impact on who we become/are. You would not go through the same experiences that shaped your previous life and have forgotten those previous experiences.

quote:Originally posted by Seriously:

I don't know. Although, I think it's because even though your karma and memories move on, your mind dies(therefor your ego).

Also, you would be a different person because culture and society have a large impact on who we become/are. You would not go through the same experiences that shaped your previous life and have forgotten those previous experiences.

Well your ego is just forgotten, if it died, they would be enlightened. But, whatever, this is true.

Of COURSE you remember!

It just takes time!

Give it a few thousand years..

Wait...well..*counts on his fingers..*...well, give it 3 years!

The true Self is no Self. You have no ego, no favorites, everything is one, yin and yang, pleasure and pain, light and dark, good and bad are not opposites or individuals but are instead one. Thats a bit of the gist of it.

The ideas of interdependence and impermanence are very key in most Buddhist religions. Not all Buddhists believe in reincarnation in the way you are defining it.

No, it is basically just an energy transfer. The ego dies, so basically everything that makes you "you" dies.

[This message has been edited by Social Junker (edited 12-09-2006).]

No self doesn't mean reincarnation. It means that there is no soul, no one part of the body that can sum up what a human is. Reincarnation doesn't neccesarily mean a part of you being born again, it could mean a newly born life inheriting the karma of a recently dead one. Karma is the only thing in Buddhist belief which is permanent.

[This message has been edited by jb_mcbean (edited 12-09-2006).]

Karma is not permanent, hence enlightenment.

While one may still experience the karma generated before one attains enlightenment,(as illistrated in a couple stories concerning the life of the Buddha) once enlightenment is achieved, karma ceases to be created. The rest of what you said is correct.

The True self is No Self. (correct)

mOckturtle (correct)

Social (correct)

Just my thoughts.

So in theory the person who I am couldnt achieve elightenment?

The path can be seen at any point; karma can be dropped at any point; enlightenment can occur at any point.

Something the Buddhist will do well to understand: You do it to yourself.

quote:Originally posted by Freedom Hippie:

So in theory the person who I am couldnt achieve elightenment?

It depends on how you are looking at the idea of 'who I am'.

Example 1: I don't exist as I habitually think I do. There is no Self, so there is no 'person' to achieve enlightenment.

Example 2: 'I' exist because of the way in which 'I' think. Therefore I am not enlightened because 'the person who I am' is not experiencially aware(ignorant) of such state.

Example 3: If there is no person 'who I am', then there is no person to acheive enlightenment.

Your statement presents a paradox. Because you are not experiencing enlightenment there is the illusion of a 'person who I am'. This persona is now necessary to work towards a goal(enlightenment), but once you acheive enlightenment this persona ceases to exist in it's current state. So the 'person who I am' is not enlightened because it is only real in the realitive sense.

.... I'm too stoned and retarded.



[This message has been edited by realty0is0a0lie (edited 12-12-2006).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by realty0is0a0lie:

[B]Reality alone exists - and that we are. All the rest is only a dream, a dream of the One Mind, which is our mind without the 'our'. Is it so hard to accept? Is it so difficult to assimilate and to live? - Why Lazurus Laughed by Wei Wu Wei

You are thinking of the other people as other people when they are not.

Originally posted by Freedom Hippie:

So in theory the person who I am couldn't achieve enlightenment?

In theory you were in the "past" and will be again, although time is illusion if you believe reincarnation although but That's only my opinion.

.... I'm too stoned and retarded.

quote:Originally posted by Freedom Hippie:

Ok so iv been reading alot about this no self thing in buddhism but I dont quite understand it. I know that its reincarnation, but wut I want to know is what the extent of the reincarnation is. I'v read about the 5 different parts that make us up in buddhism but wut I really want to know is that does this mean I am sumone different in my next life and I was sumone different in my previous life? And than also why am I conscious of this life and not of others, or am I?

In Buddhism, the three marks of existence (anatta: no-soul; anicca: impermanence; dukkha: unsatisfactory conditions) that one should have some form of conceptual grasp in order to come to grips with anything else.

The doctrine of no-soul simply states that all phenomena, both physical and immaterial, are "empty" of an essence. Nothing exists in and of itself and nothing can truly be asserted to "exist" because it has no true substance.

Impermanence is pretty self-explanatory. There is no object in this world or your mind that will last forever. Just as you were born, you will die. Everything is in a state of constant flux. To sum it up:

"You can never step in the same river twice."

Suffering (as it is usually loosely translated) or unsatisfactory conditions declares that life and its constituents are bound to eventually leave a bad taste in your mouth. However, the very desire of any particular entity is the reason behind such suffering. In conclusion, to get rid of all ailments, you must be rid of selfish desire. The device used to reach nirvana (extinguishment of desires) is the noble eight fold path.

About reincarnation: Reincarnation goes hand in hand with karma. Karma is translated as "action" or the law of cause and effect and, as far as labels are concerned, can be considered good or bad. Nirvana is attained once you've transcened the production of karma, both good and bad. Karma is produced by means of word, action, and deed. Quite frankly your current physical and mental disposition is based on past karma that has reached fruition. However, that doesn't mean that its all based on some predestined path. You still have the ability to do as you please. Also, your karma determines your plane (desire realm, form realm, formless realm) of existence and type of being (god, asura, human, animal, hell being). Typically, its the state of mind prior to an individual's demise that determines their future existence.

Yes, you are both the same but different you in lives. The same because its the same (but everchanging) stream of consciousness that migrates from life to life but different based on the causes and conditions that bring you into being (i.e. different parents, environment, form of media, likes, dislikes, friends, etc.)

The analogy previously mentioned of the infant you and current you is a good analogy. You say that you can't remember your previous lives, but is it easier for some who is intoxicated to remember all they experienced as lucid as a person who remains sober? The intoxicants in this case are greed/lust, hatred/anger, and delusion/ignorance. All of which are based on the falsehood known as "ego." When the luminous nature of mind is obscured by desire, many things are unrecognized.

If I didn't fully flesh out any portion of the aforementioned, please let me know. That making of my previous post was continously interrupted and my attentiveness was elsewhere.

Well since I do go to PBA [Pacific Buddhist Academy] I think I would probably be the senior adviser on this topic [despite me not having a religion]. Now in Buddhism you become reincarnated after death. Though you have no real consciousness of your lives/life prior at times people have the ability to recall past life experiences.

THAT IS ALL, HAIL THE FAT MAN!

alright I understand it now. That makes me feel a whole lotbetter about the buddhist way of life now http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Graemy:

Yes kind of like when you were a baby, you did stuff, were conscious for every bit, and were that little, but you don't remember.

i'v heard that the reason you can't remember the majority of your life as a baby or tot is because you don't have a well developed communication system... whether that be sign language, english, japanese... whatever, your memories are often tied to the dialogue taken place during that particular time, whether it was dialogue between you and another person or internal dialogue you used to describe the situation...

makes sense to me

No self means that you are part of everything, there is no "you" or computer monitor in front of you or chair your sitting in. Everything is part of everything else. Interdependence is the term to describe that.

I like how my philosophy teacher describes it:

Think of the world (or even the universe) as a huge lake. If you throw a rock into it, it will create waves that move through out the entire lake, with the intensity of the waves lessing as they move further and further away from the point where the rock hit the water.

Or here is another example of how interdependence works:

Your girlfriend calls you and tells you she is fucking your best friend. This makes you angry, and you punch a hole in the wall. Your mom sees the hole, and makes you pay to get it fixed, and she grounds you for the weekend, which only compounds your anger. Also because of the hole your mom is now angry, so she goes down stairs and vents her anger on your father. Now he is mad too, not only because of the hole, but also because your mom had an angry tone in her voice.

Your dad then, fed up with all the chaos in the house goes out an gets drunk, angry drunk. He then picks a fight with some guy there and gets the shit beaten out of him, and has to go to the hospital because of it.

All this of course is because you had gotten into a big fight with your girlfriend a few days before because you broke your promise to go out to dinner with her the night before, so she then went to your best friend to get back at you.

See how the whole chain of events there are all tied together, and how eventually the story could encompass every person on earth?

Thats interdependence (and also karma to some degree)