So, atheists say they don't have a religion. But a religion is a set of beliefs. You have to believe something. Most "atheist" people believe in the evolutionary theory. That is a belief. Doesn't that mean that atheism is contradictory of itself?

No. You fail. Belief set does not equal religion. Atheism is more about a lack of belief in an imaginary father figure.

Although it's a lack of belief it always also a belief in the sense that they BELIEVE that god is not real.

But it's not a religion.

[This message has been edited by VegetaRobGT (edited 12-13-2006).]

religion - beliefs and worship: people’s beliefs and opinions concerning the existence, nature, and worship of a deity or deities, and divine involvement in the universe and human life

If one disbelieves the existence of such a deity or the divine, there is no reason for such a person to have a set of beliefs about the entities and thus have no religion.

a religion is based on dogmas, considered absolute and unquestionable truths, that can't be proofed.so besides lacking a 'god' atheism lacks those truths. for example, the evolutionary theory is logically argumented and proofed.

quote:Originally posted by Staan:

So, atheists say they don't have a religion. But a religion is a set of beliefs. You have to believe something. Most "atheist" people believe in the evolutionary theory. That is a belief. Doesn't that mean that atheism is contradictory of itself?

Your resoning has led me to belive that your church has warped your mind into a sort of psudoe cattle like mentality making it so that any opion or thought not drectly linked to the bible is incomprehensable to you.

quote:Originally posted by THE ONLY SANE MAN:

Your resoning has led me to belive that your church has warped your mind into a sort of psudoe cattle like mentality making it so that any opion or thought not drectly linked to the bible is incomprehensable to you.

couldnt have said it better myself

Religion is a belief in a deity.

Saying ANY belief is a religion is just stupid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye2LoCaZKCY

Atheists don't BELIEVE in Evolutionary Theory. Belief is a false knowledge based on emotion rather than proven fact. Atheists don't believe, they know, considering the immense empirical evidence pointing towards Evolution.

Just because it's called a 'theory' doesn't mean it's made up.

we (and by that i mean I) tend to not really care about all that religious mumbo jumbo, so we dont feel any need to get all nit-picky about what the deal is.

Most of you people need to learn what atheism means. Atheism means lack of belief in a god, it's a descriptive term nothing more.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v201/themessiahcomplex/nihilist-1.jpg

quote:Originally posted by THE ONLY SANE MAN:

Your resoning has led me to belive that your church has warped your mind into a sort of psudoe cattle like mentality making it so that any opion or thought not drectly linked to the bible is incomprehensable to you.

I don't have a church. I'm not christian.

quote:Originally posted by Staan:

So, atheists say they don't have a religion. But a religion is a set of beliefs. You have to believe something. Most "atheist" people believe in the evolutionary theory. That is a belief. Doesn't that mean that atheism is contradictory of itself?



religion is a set of beliefs is a supreame being/ mystical powers/ any other of the numeriouse unprovable presepts that religion pushes

athiesm is a lack of belief in god, any god.

nialism(spelling?) is a lack in belief of any thing.

evolution is a fact, the theory is as to what causes life-forms to change down through their generations

there are theories for what makes it happen there is pleanty of evidence that it does happen

You can make an argument that atheism is not faith based.

The burden of proof rests upon those who want to claim there is a God.

"nihilism"

anyway, people don't "believe" in evolution they "understand" evolution.

people who don't "understand" evoltion "believe" in a creator.



christianity should be abolished, people teaching creationism should be locked up or shot.

quote:Originally posted by stormshadowftb:



christianity should be abolished, people teaching creationism should be locked up or shot.

a bit harsh dont you think?

Believing in the theory of evolution is like believing in the theory of gravity.

quote:Originally posted by stormshadowftb:

anyway, people don't "believe" in evolution they "understand" evolution.

people who don't "understand" evolution "believe" in a creator.

You are aware that evolution has nothing to do with the origin of life, don't you? And that it's only Christians complaining about evolution, because it doesn't fit in with their creation story, right?

I'm an atheist, so I'm not one of them, but there are people who do believe in God and admit that evolution is a fact.

quote:Christianity should be abolished, people teaching creationism should be locked up or shot.

Congratulations, you're acting just like the extremists you hate.

Sometimes you need to fight fire with fire. The idiots don't seem to get the message unless you make it as blunt as possible - even then they are to ignorant to understand.

quote:Originally posted by stormshadowftb:

"nihilism"

christianity should be abolished, people teaching creationism should be locked up or shot.

No dude. To overcome injustice we must rise above it, NOT sink to it's level. Throwing people in jail and murdering them for teaching ideas other than your own is what the catholic church/islam has been doing for thousands of years and it has solved NOTHING.

If I believe that an explosive combination of gasoline and oxygen drives pistons to propel my car down the road, I guess I'm a fuelinjectionalist. The true believers know it's magic invisible jelly beans that are the real source of power.

quote:Originally posted by Daz:

Sometimes you need to fight fire with fire. The idiots don't seem to get the message unless you make it as blunt as possible - even then they are to ignorant to understand.

But punishing those who dissent is kind of immoral, isn't it?

I mean, you know, right to free speech and all.

quote:Originally posted by Staan:

So, atheists say they don't have a religion. But a religion is a set of beliefs. You have to believe something. Most "atheist" people believe in the evolutionary theory. That is a belief. Doesn't that mean that atheism is contradictory of itself?

1.) A religion is not merely a set of beliefs. It is a system of religious beliefs, and religious means "1 : relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity." Few people are faithfully devoted to evolution, and it doesn't purport to be an ultimate reality or deity.

2.) Evolution != atheism. Even if your definition of religion were valid, the rest of your post wouldn't be. You can be an atheism and believe that evolution is wrong; so, assuming your point were right, only those atheists who were "evolutionists" would be contradicting themselves - not atheism itself.

quote:Originally posted by TheMessiahComplex:

htt p://img.photobucket.com/albums/v201/themessiahcomplex/nihilist-1.jpg (http: //img.phot obucket.co m/albums/v 201/themes siahcomple x/nihilist -1.jpg)

Micheal Balzary or "Flea" is on the left there. good movie!

quote:Originally posted by gomp:



religion is a set of beliefs is a supreame being/ mystical powers/ any other of the numeriouse unprovable presepts that religion pushes

athiesm is a lack of belief in god, any god.

nialism(spelling?) is a lack in belief of any thing.

evolution is a fact, the theory is as to what causes life-forms to change down through their generations

there are theories for what makes it happen there is pleanty of evidence that it does happen

Nihilism means there is no inherent meaning in life. It's about accepting that only death is real, and searching for things in life that mean something to you. It's not really a philosophy, but more of a precursor to philosophies. You have to stop believing in everything before you can really believe in something. I suggest you check out the American Nihilist Underground Society. www.anus.com (http://www.anus.com) .. yeah i know how that url looks, but trust me its not a porn site or anything.

I'd also like to point out that being an atheist doesn't necessarily mean you don't believe in god. It just means you don't believe in a deity. Natural Atheism, or Atheist Pantheism, is the belief that god is part of everything, that god is just nature.

[This message has been edited by zik (edited 12-14-2006).]

My god has a bigger dick than your god...

quote:Originally posted by Staan:

evolutionary theory. That is a belief.

No it isn't. It's a logical conclusion that is based on fact and has been proven. If it's (just) a belief, then so is electricity. And gravity. Fuck, even air would have to be a belief...

quote:Originally posted by Q777:

Believing in the theory of evolution is like believing in the theory of gravity.

This is probably the most intelligent post I've seen in weeks. Well put good sir.

Athiest have a belief system yes, but there is only one common belief you need to hold to be an athies, that is that God doesn't exist, or all theology is invalid.

Athiest by any means do not have a theology. Why study what doesn't exist?

I haven't heard that argument before.

What a highly original and creative take on a-theism.

LoL, I can't believe some of you wasted more than 2 sentences on this lil' phaglet.

[phail]

"Atheism is the state of disbelief or non-belief in the existence of a deity or deities."

That's it. It's quite simple and you're quite stupid.

-F☺rd

quote:Originally posted by THE ONLY SANE MAN:

Your resoning has led me to belive that your church has warped your mind into a sort of psudoe cattle like mentality making it so that any opion or thought not drectly linked to the bible is incomprehensable to you.

quote:Originally posted by boozehound420:

couldnt have said it better myself

Atheism is not the belief that God doesn't exist, it is a lack of the belief that God exists.

Atheism is not an assertion, it is the lack of an assertion, and that is why the burden of proof lies on the theist.

quote:Originally posted by Daz:

Atheism is not the belief that God doesn't exist, it is a lack of the belief that God exists.

Atheism is not an assertion, it is the lack of an assertion, and that is why the burden of proof lies on the theist.

Couldn't have said it better myself. No, really, I tried.

Atheism is just not believing in a god, A-theism.

ok hes wrong, lets all shut up about it.

dont you just love hot topics?

The belief in Atheism is just as viable a belief as belief in Xenu.

Believing that Xenu does/doesn't exist requires the same amount of conviction.

I'll bite.

quote:Originally posted by ate:

Believing that Xenu does/doesn't exist requires the same amount of conviction.

No it doesn't. Xenu was made up by a science fiction writer, who's son came out and said about how it all was a scam, and Hubbard himself pretty much admitted he was INVENTING a religion to make money.

A theist makes a positive claim that there is a God. I, as an atheist, wait for proof. And until I see some decent proof, I don't believe. You can claim anything exists, but to prove it exists you need proof. And since people believe in a God with no proof, it takes more conviction for them to believe in it than for an atheist not to believe in it.

[This message has been edited by Raw_Power (edited 12-16-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Raw_Power:

I believe it doesn't.



Yep, that's the point.

quote:

I don't believe.



Hard to do both.

quote:

Since people believe in a God with no proof.



Some do this, but not all.

quote:

It takes more conviction for them to believe in it.



Some.

quote:

Than for an atheist not to believe in it.



Some.

I'd like a seriously response, please, ate.

quote:Some do this, but not all.

They make the positive claim there is a God, therefore burden of proof is on them. Until they prove the existence of whatever it is they define as God, atheists have no reason to renounce their atheism.

I’ve yet to see one shred of evidence, but you evidently think there is evidence, so let’s see it, ate. Let’s see this fantastic evidence!

You see, if we accepted everything a person tells us without searching for evidence and using reason and logic, we’d believe in a lot of insane shit.





[This message has been edited by Raw_Power (edited 12-16-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Raw_Power:

Let's see the evidence, come on, let's see it!

Let me make sure.

You want evidence that some people will behave like you think they will, and some won't?

Hmm. Enlarged ego much?

quote:

No it's not.



I thought this was about belief...if not, then please write your next post on the next topic, accordingly. I'm fairly certain you will right your post about belief, because that's what the subject was/is.

quote:

No it's not.



Yes, I Know, it's impossible. You can't believe in something, and not believe in it.

quote:

Not true.



You mean to say, "All people who believe in "God" do so FOR"

And you're saying the "FOR" is a "Because they don't have any proof".

Ok. So people find themselves without proof of a "something" in which case it is "God", and then they go "Because we do not have proof of something("God") we will believe in it"

Something tells me you are far from telling the whole truth. Maybe a fraction of the truth, but that's it.

quote:

All.



Again, asking me to confirm, or rather in this case, telling me that you are self-confirming the fact that you are right, that you know about all people, and that you have worked out the conclusions of inumerable factors.

Again..ego problem?

Or how about this.

Just like the bible, you are reinforcing your own conclusions based on your own blind trust in something you've said, even though it's irrational and illogical based on what you can possibly know, as a single human being.

So..when you want to jump on the bandwagon, go for it.

quote:Originally posted by Raw_Power:

They make the positive claim there is a God, therefore burden of proof is on them.

You're applying the rules of science to religion, probably the funniest act one could witness, when observing another person's thought patterns.

quote:Until they prove the existence of whatever it is they define as God, atheists have no reason to renounce their atheism.

Ok, but that's the way you look at it.

quote:

I’ve yet to see one shred of evidence.

So tell the scientific community!

How admirable you are to them, you should work for them, rather then go around defending them so valiantly!

quote: but you evidently think there is evidence,

Of course there is evidence, how do you think we can talk about it!

quote: so let’s see it, ate. Let’s see this fantastic evidence!

What form would you like?

We have green, yellow, tan, and wooden.

But seriously, if you want something then ask for it, if you want to find it then ask how to find it. Asking for a defined response, based on a situation to which you applied your own rules, to determine an outcome that you have created the desire of out of your own creative/imaginative process, is utterly irrelevant!

Remember? We're talking about belief here, and what can be seen on earth, not the ideas about science or any other thing kep up in your brain! Those are your ideas, circumstances, and most importantly your own preconceptions about something that was previously about an objective topic, a topic about other people!

quote:

You see, if we accepted everything a person tells us without searching for evidence and using reason and logic, we’d believe in a lot of insane shit.



Yea! You almost got me!

quote:Let me make sure.

You want evidence that some people will behave like you think they will, and some won't?

Hmm. Enlarged ego much?

No, I want to see the evidence "some people" have for their belief in a God. Because if there is no real evidence, then they're believing blindly, as I said.

quote:You're applying the rules of science to religion, probably the funniest act one could witness, when observing another person's thought patterns.

When the religious start attacking evolution and inventing shit like creationism, then it's time to take them down a notch and show with science that objectively, they believe a bunch of shit.

Seriously, ate, you're a fucking idiot. And don't attack me for ad-hom, considering in your last two posts you've called me nothing but egotistical. The reason it's hard to understand you is because you write vaguely on purpose.

quote:Yea! You almost got me!

You've been had for a long time, you're just too dumb to notice it.



[This message has been edited by Raw_Power (edited 12-16-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Raw_Power:

No, I want to see the evidence "some people" have for their belief in a God. Because if there is no real evidence, then they're believing blindly, as I said.

Ok.

Reality option 1:

"These people are believing in god for no reasons"

Reality option 2:

"These people are believing in god for their own reasons"

Now, one of those is more correct, yet both can exist in the whole of our universe. So...some.

quote:When the religious start attacking evolution and inventing shit like creationism,

Sorry..lol you're bringing up a past negative experience, and trying to justify your belief with it, essentially attempting to re-create it, and project such emotion onto this present situation.

Cop out. Stay focused here, this isn't about any of that.

quote:

then it's time to take them down a notch and show with science that objectively, they believe a bunch of shit.

Yes, and according to science, it's exactly the same situation for all of the various and extremely diverse things people believe in.



What's funny is that you won't take note as to how vast and undescribably complex the universe is, and yet you're getting overwhelmed when you see diversity in the thoughts of your own fellow men.

quote:

Seriously, ate, you're a fucking idiot. And don't attack me for ad-hom, considering in your last two posts you've called me nothing but egotistical.



You consider that last post an attack?

What's wrong with you man?

Oh.. that ego thing. I'm sorry.

quote:

The reason it's hard to understand you is because you write vaguely on purpose.

Can I get a 5 to 1 odds on that psychic deduction you've just made Mr. Raw?

http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Oddly enough, even though unfounded bull is everything you're supposedly against, you still managed to squeeze out a mass amount of it. For instance, see the above quote.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif) Either you mean:

"I can read you're mind, and I know exactly what you're doing"

Or.

"I know so much about how people work, about the world that they can possibly have experienced, and about what I'm going to experience that I don't need to know exactly what you're thinking, but I can use logic to deduct from what information I already have"

So basically, you're either saying you're the guy with the biggest brain in the world, or you're literally contradicting yourself by saying you're believing something without actually being sure you have proof of it.

Funny. I have seen people like you before, and in the end they always give in to the path of least resistance and stop trying to fight every new idea that comes their way.

In the end, this is done willingly or unwillingly, seeing as the sheer diversity and vastness of the world would surely crush and flood anyone's mind with the reality of how various experience of the same thing can actually get with human beings, passed the point where they could fight it and pretend that they still know everything there is to know about such things.

In the end, the biggest thing the people ever end up having, is an ego.

quote:

You've been had for a long time, you're just too dumb to notice it.



Yea...sorry, that doesn't really mean much coming from you.

*ignores all the stupid shit in Ate's post and gets to the point*

quote:Ok.

Reality option 1:

"These people are believing in god for no reasons"

Reality option 2:

"These people are believing in god for their own reasons"

Now, one of those is more correct, yet both can exist in the whole of our universe. So...some.

I wasn't saying that they all had no reason for believing in whichever God they believed in, I was saying that they were all believing in a God they had no evidence for.

Reason and Evidence are two separate things. I can have no evidence for the existence of Jesus, which would be something like his corpse, yet believe in Jesus with the reason that it makes me feel happy.

I'm still waiting to see the evidence which you claim some of them actually have, and by evidence, I mean empirical, falsifiable, scientific evidence because science has given us the best results for understanding the universe yet. If you have none, then I stand by my claim that they all believe in a God without a shred of evidence.





[This message has been edited by Raw_Power (edited 12-16-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Raw_Power:

*ignores all the stupid shit in Ate's post and gets to the point*

[/quote\

Just another way of you "changing the subject" (as you put it previously) to avoid having to respond to it effectively.

Essentially "Covering your eyes, and pretending it doesn't exist".

I cannot force you to face what you don't want to, so I will not pressure you any more with that. For now.

[quote]

Reason and Evidence are two separate things.

Now, here is your delusion (the one you almost put on me), if you can explain something far enough, evidence for it will not be required.

That is why you can allow yourself into believing that you are right, so much more often than you are actually objectively "right".

quote: I can have no evidence for the existence of Jesus, which would be something like his corpse, yet believe in Jesus with the reason that it makes me feel happy.

There are many people who's corpses are not physically present now, yet were recorded, and thus are known to have existed. This is irelevant though, because you're getting more and more specific to an exmample of a particular experience of "God", Religion, or Belief, and in doing so are relating the once objective topic, closer and closer to your own experiences, thus compounding the biases of years and years of narrowed experience with such particular aspects of religion, and using (once again) your own past to justify your own reasoning to justify your own beliefs.

MUCH, like such religionists do. Although, I believe they do it with less conviction than you...at least...outside of times of worship.

[quote]

I wasn't saying that they had no reason for believing in a God, I was saying they were believing in a God they had no evidence for.

Not entirely true, even apart from the existence of belief, reason, and evidence, the actualy materials, recordings which could act as "physical evidence" in this case, are very vague. We simply cannot know. Too many people have been tampering with/searching for/entirely fabricating such evidences for far too long for there to be any clarity left.

So at best, such experiences you have, were not with beliefs based on anything more than fairytales/stories passed from generation to generation ( in this case, highly altered by each generation ).

That (kindly enough I ask of you) is not the intended subject of discussing beliefs based on actual experiences of the present day.

If it has become the subject, it is likely because it was purposely, and directly diverted to it, likely because of an imbalance residing within whoever brought such ideas to the table. I suggest you study that religion, and it's affect in your own life, seeing as you have had prior experience.

quote:Now, here is your delusion (the one you almost put on me), if you can explain something far enough, evidence for it will not be required.

That is why you can allow yourself into believing that you are right, so much more often than you are actually objectively "right".

OK, this is coming from the man who was defending a guy in Paranoid Delusions who believed that David Blaine had actual magical powers. Get a fucking grip on reality, man, and stop going off topic!

quote:There are many people who's corpses are not physically present now, yet were recorded, and thus are known to have existed.

The corpse was merely an example of evidence, as was Jesus. I’m not actually claiming Jesus didn’t exist, I was using him as an example, you idiot.

quote:This is irelevant though, because you're getting more and more specific to an exmample of a particular experience of "God", Religion, or Belief, and in doing so are relating the once objective topic, closer and closer to your own experiences, thus compounding the biases of years and years of narrowed experience with such particular aspects of religion, and using (once again) your own past to justify your own reasoning to justify your own beliefs.

Stop with the pseudo-psychology and stop going off topic, like you always do. Look at my arguments, and separate them from me when you do so, or fuck off.

quote:Not entirely true, even apart from the existence of belief, reason, and evidence, the actualy materials, recordings which could act as "physical evidence" in this case, are very vague. We simply cannot know. Too many people have been tampering with/searching for/entirely fabricating such evidences for far too long for there to be any clarity left.

So what… you’re saying that they have no objective evidence and are agreeing with me? Great!

P.S. I really wished you properly read up on science and how they piece together and study evidence, because it's clear that you don't have a fucking clue. And please, man, for god sakes, stop trying to make an analysis of me through my posts and just leave my arguments stand on their own two feet, detatched from me. Also, I wasn't just taking into account the Judaist god, I was taking into account ALL gods, so fuck you.



[This message has been edited by Raw_Power (edited 12-16-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Raw_Power:

[B]

I'm still waiting to see the evidence which you claim some of them actually have, and by evidence, I mean empirical, falsifiable, scientific evidence

I told you before, you want green, tan, yellow, paper or plastic?

How bout you let the ideas of truth come to you, as they are. Instead of shaping them, defining what they can be, what category of preference and past experience they can fall into, before ever even taking sight of them.

In other words, don't ruin your chances for finding such unbiased truth about something, by being so overly biased as to what you're allowing yourself to find. If you only want something with a name tag, approved by a certain group of "Friends", and looking just like you like it (as a human from a city/society/class), then I don't you won't be sourly disatisfied when you find out the universe doesn't feed into every raw desire of man. Seeing this in nature. Seeing the conflict of man's desires and nature, ultimately results in man destroying himself.

So basically. Don't kill any chance of realizing what you've found, when you find the truth, by limiting what you're allowing to be the truth.

Hell, you keep that up, and soon enough that truth is only going to be "ONE" thing to you, and by then, it will be the only thing that the truth Truly ISN'T.

Keep limiting your view, and it will get more difficult to see things from a balanced perspective. Balance is what it's all about, because if you can't balance the impending weight on your shoulders, called your past, with what's coming in right now, and being communicated by others, about their past, then you're surely going to collapse one way or the other.

If you can work out your own experiences, and STILL take in and work out what other people's experience can mean in a RELATIVE manner, then you will neither denying your own self of justice and truth, or the other persons.

You will be finding balance, and that is the truth about this reality, often, the one who defines themselves as one who alread knows the truth, and one who already knows what form the truth is going to come in, is actually the person farthest from the truth, because in believing that, they're only limiting the forms of information that the truth can come in and therefore recieving less of it than someone else who isn't doing that.

quote:

because science has given us the best results for understanding the universe yet.

Science explains the world, just about as much as religion does. They both leave one very big thing out.

And that is exactly half of the truth about reality.

Religion is some guy running down a hill screaming from the top of his lungs saying that he's seen something no one is ever going to believe (subjective experience:biased)

Science is the first guy that sees this guy, and goes "But I didn't see anything myself"(objective:biased)



quote: If you have none, then I stand by my claim that they all believe in a God without a shred of evidence.



Great, you're a real kook, at first I thought you just thought you could read my mind because I was talking to you.

Now you think you can read every person in the world who has ever believed in a thing called "god"s' minds.

Very nice, I like your style. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

I have chosen to stop arguing with Ate not because he has refuted my arguments, but because he has chosen to put my arguments to one side and make a pseudo-psychoanalytical, rambling analysis of why I’m saying what I am saying.

The man is an idiot, and from here on out I shall ignore his posts and allow him to live in his illogical fantasy world.

quote:Religion is some guy running down a hill screaming from the top of his lungs saying that he's seen something no one is ever going to believe (subjective experience:biased)

Science is the first guy that sees this guy, and goes "But I didn't see anything myself"(objective:biased)

^ This here proves that Ate is an idiot, and anyone with half a brain will know why.



[This message has been edited by Raw_Power (edited 12-16-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Raw_Power:

OK, this is coming from the man who was defending a guy in Paranoid Delusions who believed that David Blaine had actual magical powers.

*sigh* Did that experience damage you that badly? What can I do to help you not bring this memory up in the future, when you're feeling at a loss and desperate for material?

I'll do my best to go easy on you from now on. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

quote:

Get a fucking grip on reality, man, and stop going off topic![/B]

That's your own subconscious trying to tell you to wake up and stop talking about David Blaine.

quote:

The corpse was merely an example of evidence, as was Jesus. I’m not actually claiming Jesus didn’t exist, I was using him as an example. I suck.



Ok, so now you didn't bring Jesus directly into this.

Lol! Cover your eyes, the words don't exist!

quote:

Stop with the pseudo-psychology

A nice defense for when someone is observing you closely, and pointing out your flaws.

quote:

and stop going off topic, like you always do.

I'm sure David Blaine made a personal request to be in this topic, under your posts...along with Christ.

quote: Look at my arguments, and separate them from me when you do so, or fuck off.



Calm down, relax.

quote:

So what… you’re saying that they have no objective evidence and are agreeing with me? Great!



I want to try what you're having. (delusion!)

quote:

P.S. I really wished you properly read up on science

I know, because you're so well read, and you've done all tha ya ya yada yada yada.

Please, cushion your ego against your spine, and wipe yourself off, you're drooling every where.

quote:and how they piece together and study evidence,

Yes, objective truths, and subjective truths are very simple concepts. It's there inter-relatability that is a bit complex, wait! Jee Wizz! Could you be wanting to discuss this!???

Or do you still want to talk about David Blaine and your IQ (ego) ?

quote:

because it's clear that you don't have a fucking clue.

Lol, I'm sure you're the who's going to point that out of all things!

quote:

And please, man, for god sakes, stop trying to make an analysis of me through my posts and just leave my arguments stand on their own two feet, detatched from me.



Then stop putting yourself into your arguments, as if you're fighting for yourself religiously! So much conviction, so must past experience mixed into what you're saying!

quote: Also, I wasn't just taking into account the Judaist god, I was taking into account ALL gods, so fuck you.



All Gods do not fit the representations you gave, so if your latter statement is accurate, than you are incorrect!

If you were to say that you were speaking specifically, then what you said previous, would've been more accurately defined!

If not, you must see that you lead me on!

lol, I don't even have to do anything. Ate is making himself look like an idiot with posts such as the one above.

quote:Originally posted by Raw_Power:

I have chosen to stop arguing with Ate

Translated: If you continue you will discover the true reality of your own thoughts and intentions!

You do not want to know this, so you will naturally feel uneasy and prepare to end communications!

quote:

not because he has refuted my arguments, but because he has chosen to put my arguments to one side and make a pseudo-psychoanalytical, rambling analysis of why I’m saying what I am saying.



You're saying:

1) I will not reply to ate, because he has spoken about me.

2) I will not reply to ate, because for me to understand what he's saying, I'll also have to understand something about myself.

If you didn't want to face yourself, you could've stopped typing back here:!

quote:Originally posted by Raw_Power:

I have chosen to stop arguing with Ate

More proof of your shallow nature, and dense mind!

quote:

The man is an idiot,(translation: I am smart (big ego) and from here on out I shall ignore his posts (translation: I won't face what he's trying to tell me about myself) and allow him to live in his illogical fantasy world. (translation: by directly projecting my own obvious errors on to him, I can literally cause a directly flip in my own ego-based awareness, and subconscious awareness, and jump onto an irrational belief so absurd, yet so preferable to my ego-based awareness that I simply won't refuse it, I won't think about what's been said, and I am so confident that I cannot lose as long as I blindly believe I am right, that I will literally say to someone "I shall ignore", and actually believe that I am becoming smarter by doing this")



Lol, you're just on a losing streak man...

Oh God, ate, you've sure got me. How in the world were you able to understand my psychological condition, my long-lasting, deep, emotional problems, based on a few pieces of text? Man, you're such a genius! I wish I could be just like you. http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

Keep it coming, ate. Everyone who reads this thread with half a brain will no longer take you seriously at all. Keep digging that ditch, man.

[This message has been edited by Raw_Power (edited 12-16-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Raw_Power:

lol, I don't even have to do anything.(translation: I don't have to do anything in the first place, I just need attention so I'm going to randomly state things that I don't have to do :/) Ate is making himself look like an idiot(translation: ate is really making me look bad, this can't damage my all powerful, all knowing ego, so in truth, when someone makes fun of me(I was simply pointing out what I observed, I truly didn't want to make fun of you, although you took it that way), they're really making themselves) look like an idiot with posts such as the one above.

C'mon, man. I'll buya a drink.

I know you’re full of crap, ate, you want to know why? Because you assume I have an ego when you know nothing about me. If you met me offline, you’d probably say what everyone else says: that boy sure is shy and quiet, and he never stands up for himself.

Honestly, you assume you have the ability to understand someone you don’t even know based on a few words they wrote on the internet? You’re the one with the fucking ego, ate. Go fuck yourself.

You always do this, don't you? You always take the argument off topic and act as if you know some hidden secret to make yourself feel special when in reality you're a fucking fruit loop.

*expects ate to do more psycho-babble shit*

quote:Originally posted by Raw_Power:

Oh God, ate, you've sure got me. How in the world were you able to understand my psychological condition, my long-lasting, deep, emotional problems, based on a few pieces of text? Man, you're such a genius! I wish I could be just like you. http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)



Yay!

It's fairly simple, without directly stating any problems you may or may not have had, I simply restated your own words and representations in order to bring rise to such problems within yourself. I am not aware of these problems, yet if I let you know, that I could tell you had some, through what you were saying (by refering to specific things, kind of like these things reflect you're choosing to focus on, about your past), then you would be led to these problems by your own acceptance of them, without any direct impact by me (except for the impact that you imagined)

This is much like when a person knows another person is lying, but doesn't know what they actually know, so they simply tell the person to stop lying, and in doing so trick the lying person into thinking that they actually know the truth. This ultimately causes the lying person to own up to what they've done, and as a secondary result pass the truth on to the person who didn't previously know it.

But I don't need to know the specific truth, I don't need to know your problem (unless of course you want me to, which will be determined by your posts), because you have already made reference to you having one, both based on your reactions to the initial topic query, to my notification of such reactions, and to your reaction to my notifying of such reactions.

The key words were in your posts, in the examples you chose to use to represent your opinion (which were completely built on your own presdispositions, seeing as they were completely out of my mind before identifying them in your post). Yet, this was two posts ago, you're even getting off topic off your off topic posts, (the specifics about religious ideals and beliefs and scientific ideals)



quote:

Keep it coming, ate. Everyone who reads this thread with half a brain will no longer take you seriously at all. Keep digging that ditch, man.

There's no ditch, we're just talking, I've identified some patterns in your behavior and thought process, but only now can I say such a thing, surely, after you have in facted confirmed it, yourself.

[/QUOTE]

quote:Originally posted by Raw_Power:

I know you’re full of crap, ate,

And yet, you're still replying, I must be striking your nerves harder than ever, for you to not have a bit of intellectual conviction to continue posting here.

That must mean it's all emotion. You're doing all of the feeling, and non of the observing, please "snap out of it" if you will.

quote: you want to know why?

Maybe when it would be on topic to post why.

quote:You’re the one with the fucking ego, ate. Go fuck yourself.

You see that thing that you're feeling right now? You see that which you are defending violently, as if someone was going to harm you if you didn't defend it. Yea, that's your life.

The problem is that you're attributing your life and your essence of existence, to your image and how you want to be perceived by others.

This is yet another reoccurance of the same problem you had earlier of letting the truth come to you, without having the desire to shape it accordingly, and to essentially rip all essences of truth right out at the roots and replace them with false images and biasedness.

If you would let yourself be, without having to fight and use swear words to literally verbally throw bricks at another person, like them defacing you (as you seem to be taking it) would literally take your life away, cause you to live any differently subjectively, and cause you to think much differently about yourself.

If you would stop fighting with words, to defend yourself as if your image, and your outward self, does anything to truly describe your inward self, then I would trust you.

I would believe in you.

I would know you were right and being truthful when you said I didn't know about you.

Because that would mean that your interior self exists, and that's it's powerful, and valuable and that it's not always perfectly equal to your exterior self, that everyone sees on the outside.

Yet.

Guy.

If this was true, then why would you disregard that interior self so much, only to place the entirety of your focus on your outward self, to defend that self as if it were some form of nobility to curse at others when they point something they've seen about you out.

Literally, stop focusing on the self you're defending right now, it's pittiful it's weak, it needs a little guy to run around like a puppit protecting it, and striking down anyone who opposes it?

No, if it were truly worth defending, it would have it's own means of existing dependently, it would not need anything you could do for it, but give it expression.

Yet...if swearing and utterly rejection everything someone says about you (when you are the one who's swearing, and putting everything into an emotional, subjective context, as if you are unable of looking at it for what it's worth, but continuosly allow something to blind you from looking at it with a blank mind, without preconceptions), then I'm sorry, you're the first person to ever be totally empty on the inside.

quote:

You always do this, don't you?

No.

quote:You always take the argument off topic

That was you.

quote: and act as if you know some hidden secret

I'm not acting here, you are. Remember?

quote: to make yourself feel special

That's your big ego, both attempting to insult me, and to defend it's own self by implying that it is special enough to attack another person, when they are trying to feel special (if I actually were doing that)

quote: when in reality you're a fucking fruit loop.



Still, the very decision to use that insult, tells me something about yourself, something you probably don't like to hear about.

quote:

*expects ate to do more psycho-babble shit*

Waiting for you.

Yet another good thread gone off topic thanks to ate the troll.

I believe it is more than obvious that you had many things to respond to, BEFORE choose to talk about other things/respond to things I have posted of lesser relative value to the main topic.

I always posted something that could be responded to that was related to the main subject.

I always responded to the entire of your post, and made sure to touch on all things that you were bringing up.

If something got in the way of your vision, and only allowed you to focus on the more personal things I've stated, while ignoring the other things I've posted, then that was your decision alone, and not mine. You cannot blame me for responding to your posts entirely.

And you cannot blame me for your choosing to respond to the part of my post, which responded to an imbalanced part of your post.

quote:Originally posted by Raw_Power:

Yet another good thread gone off topic thanks to ate the troll.

You complaining about other trolls is ironic to say the least...

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

You complaining about other trolls is ironic to say the least...

At least someone gets irony.



[This message has been edited by Raw_Power (edited 12-16-2006).]

Dear Friends,

Wouldn't life be great if people could communicate what they really meant to say? Or if symantics would simply take a hike? Belief can be in a myriad of things and can have a myriad of definitions, so can religion. So either get different words or lets all agree on a standard. Here is the standard that I am applying to belief, it is the placing of trust into another person, place, object, theory etc. because of certain evidences or simply a conviction. To say that all religious people are blind is a stereotype and again you will be narrowing your mindset. Lets aim high and assume that we are all rational human beings. Reason can only go so far so lets take it as far as it can go. Macroevolution is not a very good theory because of the complexity of life, which would make random chance actually impossible in the environment that they propose was present. Therefore if it is impossible from the beginning then we have to look somewhere else for a solution. What is the reason for your disbelief? It must be majorly because of bad experiences with religious people, for that is the only way that belief is presented. Thus I must bring to light that no one is perfect and you will never get a perfect sample of a certain faith because their actions can only poorly reflect their values. But again, why is it that you choose the road of disowning any thought of a deity?

quote:Here is the standard that I am applying to belief, it is the placing of trust into another person, place, object, theory etc.

No, you can believe in something without placing any trust in it. Scientists admit that it's wrong to say 100% that anything is true, and are sceptical, yet believe in lots of things. Your definition fails.

Also, I am a perfect example of why your definition fails. I am an agnostic-atheist, I don't believe there is a God and act as though there is not one, but I admit that I could be wrong and that there possibly is a God, hence I do not put too much trust into my own belief.

quote:To say that all religious people are blind is a stereotype and again you will be narrowing your mindset.

The disturbing thing about stereotypes is that the older you get, the more you begin to realize that they exist.

Until I see scientific evidence for a religion's God, they're still using faith, which to me is following blindly.

quote:Macroevolution is not a very good theory because of the complexity of life, which would make random chance actually impossible in the environment that they propose was present.

I'm sorry, but do you care to make a new thread proving this claim? (I don't want this one to get any more off topic, but I'm dying to hear this).

quote:Lets aim high and assume that we are all rational human beings.

Not while Scientology is still in existence.

quote:What is the reason for your disbelief? It must be majorly because of bad experiences with religious people, for that is the only way that belief is presented. Thus I must bring to light that no one is perfect and you will never get a perfect sample of a certain faith because their actions can only poorly reflect their values. But again, why is it that you choose the road of disowning any thought of a deity?

I've stated why I disowned my faith many times on this forum, and I'm getting sick of it. This comment is entirely inappropriate and has nothing to do with the thread. You're now doing what Ate is doing and I can admit quite easily that there was no tragedy or horrible event that made me lose belief, I just sat down one day and thought about it rationally. That's it.

Also, stating that macroevolution is wrong, so God must be the reason is a perfect example of the logical fallacy known as the "god of the gaps".

PS, can you start breaking your writing up into proper paragraphs please? Reading your posts is an eyesore.



[This message has been edited by Raw_Power (edited 12-16-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Truth is all:

Dear Friends,

Wouldn't life be great if people could communicate what they really meant to say? Or if symantics would simply take a hike? Belief can be in a myriad of things and can have a myriad of definitions, so can religion. So either get different words or lets all agree on a standard. Here is the standard that I am applying to belief, it is the placing of trust into another person, place, object, theory etc. because of certain evidences or simply a conviction. To say that all religious people are blind is a stereotype and again you will be narrowing your mindset. Lets aim high and assume that we are all rational human beings. Reason can only go so far so lets take it as far as it can go. Macroevolution is not a very good theory because of the complexity of life, which would make random chance actually impossible in the environment that they propose was present. Therefore if it is impossible from the beginning then we have to look somewhere else for a solution. What is the reason for your disbelief? It must be majorly because of bad experiences with religious people, for that is the only way that belief is presented. Thus I must bring to light that no one is perfect and you will never get a perfect sample of a certain faith because their actions can only poorly reflect their values. But again, why is it that you choose the road of disowning any thought of a deity?

+1

The turning point in my life was when I was 9 years old, I enjoyed science in school and had just come back from church and was confused as to why Christians and scientists both thought they were right and the other one was wrong.

So I waited until the end of class and asked "Miss, I don't know which one to believe, how can science and Jesus both be right?"

She replied something along the lines of "It's okay to believe in both, I believe in science and the bible"

I was old enough to know when a bully was forcing someone to lie for them, she was scared, there were almost tears in her eyes, I felt sorry for her. From that moment on I knew science was the righteous good, and that religion was the evil bully that spreads lies and makes you say things because they want you to.

My opinion has never changed

So essentially you're saying religion is one giant cult?

yep, as Reverend Zappa said, the only difference between a cult and a religion is the amount of real estate they own

But is it comparable to something like science?