With justification, why do you believe in God?

Curious.

Conversely, why don't you believe in God?

quote:Originally posted by socratic:

Conversely, why don't you believe in God?

I don't believe in god due to my belief of "with great claims come great explanations."

To me, there is no evidence or explanation to *his* existence.

We don't believe in Zeus, or aliens, so why 'god'? Hence the question.

quote:Originally posted by 53v3N:

With justification, why do you believe in God?

Curious.

I can sum it up in a sentence -

Before I surrendered my life to Jesus, I had to try to do good. Now that I have submitted my life, I have to try to do bad.

WIthin that sentence lies a very profound series of events that occured over a few years in my life. Describing those things would take much more then anybody here would be willing to read through so I'll spare you.

However, when I experienced those things I was also lead to the bible. For once in my life I could understand it and I read it over and over and over again. Wisdom and understanding of His word poured into me.

When I experienced these events of being born again I could not explain how or why my views and actions changed until I read the bible.

What I experienced was the true love in it's purist form that God has for us. The true love a father has for his son.

Reading the bible I understood that God is real and with us through the testimony of the prophets - I can't count the numerous prayers that were answered in my life but I can tell you the life I had before and the life I have today are two seperate people. I was born again a son of God. Until He grabs your heart and sets your mind on fire for truth and love will you ever know what it's like to know God.

I hope you understood that I would not walk in faith if I wasn't set upright and given another chance at life. I knew when I was lifted out of the pit I created for myself, it was a pit I had no power over, a pit I could not get out of on my own power did I know that God's hands have touched my life and set me free.

I am not religious because I know that following rules and regulations may help you live a certain way but it has no power to breath life into spiritually dead bones.



[This message has been edited by Interest (edited 12-16-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Interest:

I can sum it up in a sentence -

Before I surrendered my life to Jesus, I had to try to do good. Now that I have submitted my life, I have to try to do bad.

WIthin that sentence lies a very profound series of events that occured over a few years in my life. Describing those things would take much more then anybody here would be willing to read through so I'll spare you.

However, when I experienced those things I was also lead to the bible. For once in my life I could understand it and I read it over and over and over again. Wisdom and understanding of His word poured into me.

When I experienced these events of being born again I could not explain how or why my views and actions changed until I read the bible.

What I experienced was the true love in it's purist form that God has for us. The true love a father has for his son.

Reading the bible I understood that God is real and with us through the testimony of the prophets - I can't count the numerous prayers that were answered in my life but I can tell you the life I had before and the life I have today are two seperate people. I was born again a son of God. Until He grabs your heart and sets your mind on fire for truth and love will you ever know what it's like to know God.

I hope you understood that I would not walk in faith if I wasn't set upright and given another chance at life. I knew when I was lifted out of the pit I created for myself, it was a pit I had no power over, a pit I could not get out of on my own power did I know that God's hands have touched my life and set me free.

I am not religious because I know that following rules and regulations may help you live a certain way but it has no power to breath life into spiritually dead bones.



"I can't count the numerous prayers that were answered in my life"

Please do, i can wager it will fit into line with the number of prayers that you gave in total with the law of chance.

I guess, hope. I don't like the idea of it being all over when I die. I suppose that's a cowardly reason. But, I do feel things, things beyond rational explanation, have seen things also, and they kind of affirm my belief in some supernatural power. Maybe I'm crazy, or foolish, but it's what I believe.

quote:Originally posted by MidnightRambler:

I guess, hope. I don't like the idea of it being all over when I die. I suppose that's a cowardly reason. But, I do feel things, things beyond rational explanation, have seen things also, and they kind of affirm my belief in some supernatural power. Maybe I'm crazy, or foolish, but it's what I believe.

"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring."

-Carl Sagan

quote:Originally posted by MidnightRambler:

I guess, hope. I don't like the idea of it being all over when I die. I suppose that's a cowardly reason. But, I do feel things, things beyond rational explanation, have seen things also, and they kind of affirm my belief in some supernatural power. Maybe I'm crazy, or foolish, but it's what I believe.

i dont like the idea of there not being a huge ass diamond the size of a fridge in my back yard......doesnt make me believe there is one there though.

Interest, your post was hilarious. Born again Christians, lol. You talk about good and bad, define what you mean by those vague terms since they are subjective to your own values and beliefs.

I don't believe in God, cause there is no evidence that one exists in any form. Only idiots can put their faith into something that makes absolutely no sense.

Dear friends,

It is funny that you say that only fools could believe in Christ. 1 Corinthians 1:19-21 For it is written, "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart." Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.

It is true, what is shown in Christ may seem like folly to many. Yet I would not be so bold as to place faith in a feeling. That in itself can cause nothing but trouble. Death is the first thing that must occur. Now the reason I came to faith was because of my despair. We all fail even our own goals and sets of values. There is by the way a true right and wrong, even if people are unwilling to admit it. I am sure that C.S. Lewis explains it better then I could so I would suggest reading Mere Christianity. But even if you are unwilling to admit this you do know that you fail at many of your endevours. I could not stand failing over and over. I kept failing my loved ones as well as the people around me and it pissed me off for what else did I have to look forward to? If I could not make this life good I have nothing left. I also could not stand that I was so corrupt myself and thus I started blaming God. As a matter of fact I started hating God and realized that I had hated him all along because I was born into this corruption of sin and I couldnt escape it. It was when I finally despaired of my own actions that I saw what the name Christ meant. No, I dont feel like a million bucks everyday. I dont think that my life has instantly changed into a beauty story and as a matter of fact I am sure I will endure more suffering as a Christian then if I was not. But the difference is that now I place my trust in Christ, my Lord and savior. I throw myself on the Cross because I can do no true good on my own and will always fall short. Therefore I thank the Lord, my redeemer lives. Thus I died and came to life in Spirit. I will still mess up, be sad, do stupid things, but I will come back to the right place and throw my sins upon Christ so that I can run the good race and share this comfort with others. It doesnt matter if we choose to believe in the Lord or not, he still remains.

i believe in god because of the connection i feel with the universe, the sense of togertherness i garner from nature, the magic of emotions,because of the blessings great friends are, and the energy i feel when connecting to a really great song,there are many more reasons i might list them later but probably not

thats why im a pantheist :>

quote:Originally posted by 53v3N:

With justification, why do you believe in God?

Curious.

Most people who reject belief in God are in fact rejecting belief in an inadequate description of god. "The Tao that can be named is not the Tao." LaoTsu

For myself, I recognise that every person has a 'god' whether they recognise it or not. That god is whoever/whatever they serve/worship, spend most of their time thinking about or working towards. It is the highest principle in the individuals mind, their driving force, their dominant thoughts and intentions.

peace http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

oh my shit...aliens...so we go to places we havnt been before find an alien creature,as in we dont know of it so its alien right?...but we give it a name and call it a fucking animal,does it have to be green,3 ft tall and have 3 eyes to be alien?

quote:Originally posted by aj2307:

oh my shit...aliens...so we go to places we havnt been before find an alien creature,as in we dont know of it so its alien right?...but we give it a name and call it a fucking animal,does it have to be green,3 ft tall and have 3 eyes to be alien?

I'm referring to extraterrestrial aliens, you dumbfuck.

I believe in God b/c there is a God.

here's my story:

I went to Catholic school my entire life, so of corse by the time I was in H/S I was denying everything I had been taught.

About midway through h/s I had declared myself an athiest; mainly b/c I take a scientific approach to everything, & what I had been taight failed to satisfy my logic.

I decided that I had to find it out for myself, rather than just going on what I had been told...

see, I'm an engineer, & being an engineer, if I'm going to believe something someone tells me, they better have a damn good proof to back it up with or else I'm just gonna completely disregard it...

Well, after forgetting everything that I had been taught, I was able to find the truth out for myself.

I now consider myself agnostic, because from my own personal experiences I am now convinced that there has to be a higher power. I've witnessed things that sciece cannot explain no matter how deep you dig...

quote:Originally posted by emag:

I am now convinced that there has to be a higher power. I've witnessed things that sciece cannot explain no matter how deep you dig...



This, is my good reason for believing. Cowardice is only part of it.

quote:Originally posted by emag:

I've witnessed things that sciece cannot explain no matter how deep you dig...



So said, the Egyptians, the Aztecs, the Mayans, the Native Americans, and pretty much everyone else in the past. They were wrong.

Arguments from ignorance are a fallicious form of reasoning.

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

So said, the Egyptians, the Aztecs, the Mayans, the Native Americans, and pretty much everyone else in the past. They were wrong.

Arguments from ignorance are a fallicious form of reasoning.yea, but I'm not your average ignorant person. I don't mean to boast or anything, but I'm really not a dumbass. I can't tell you how many times I've been called "genius" & have been told by old people how much wisdom I have. believe me or not, I know this is the i-net & I could just be spouting shit out my ass, it really doesn't matter to me, I know what I know.

you'll find it out for yourself, eventually.

If you were truly intelligent and/or wise, you wouldn't be making the ridiculous claim that Science could not possibly explain what you saw. You have no way of precluding the possibility that it could very well explain it. Maybe not today, but another day. The possibility exists.

I don't believe in god at all. I was brought up to like any child. But later in my teen years I started to realize that no one really knew if he or "it" was even there. I don't believe in anything that i don't see. Seeing is believing in my book.

How can you trust what you see?

quote:Originally posted by rent-a-revolution:

How can you trust what you see?

go fuck urself and then poke your eyes out

then proceed to tell someone to tell Totse how dumbfucked you were to question the eyesight

just because your delusional doesn't mean the rest of us are

quote:Originally posted by redzed:

Most people who reject belief in God are in fact rejecting belief in an inadequate description of god. "The Tao that can be named is not the Tao." LaoTsu



I don't think the Tao gives a shit. The Tao is not the same thing as "God". Two different things.

quote:Originally posted by MidnightRambler:

I guess, hope. I don't like the idea of it being all over when I die. I suppose that's a cowardly reason. But, I do feel things, things beyond rational explanation, have seen things also, and they kind of affirm my belief in some supernatural power. Maybe I'm crazy, or foolish, but it's what I believe.

QFT, there's alot of people in the world who have nothing BUT the word of god. Isn't really explaining why, but it gives them something they are guaranteed to have access to for the rest of their life.

quote:Originally posted by Sex Panther:

QFT, there's alot of people in the world who have nothing BUT the word of god. Isn't really explaining why, but it gives them something they are guaranteed to have access to for the rest of their life.

Like I said;

"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring."

-Carl Sagan

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

If you were truly intelligent and/or wise, you wouldn't be making the ridiculous claim that Science could not possibly explain what you saw. You have no way of precluding the possibility that it could very well explain it. Maybe not today, but another day. The possibility exists.it's not that I saw something, I don't claim to have witnessed miracles. it's more just events that have happened in my life that have convinced me that there is a higher power.

I used to argue that there couldn't be a god exactly as you are, exactly like you, but obviously that has changed, & it's not b/c I've gotten dumber.

& believe me, I've looked at it from every angle before coming up w/ my conclusion. I have a minor in math so I know about statistics & the probability of the events occuring as they have.

& if I wasn't in engineering I'd be in psychology b/c that's one of my favorite subjects, so I do know a little about psych. & from a psychological perspective I know how someone's concept of god could easily be completely made up in their head (the mind is an extremely powerful thing), but I don't believe that's the case for me.

[This message has been edited by emag (edited 12-19-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by 53v3N:

Like I said;

"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring."

-Carl Sagan

That's nothing but opinion...mine happens to be, "It's far better to let people be people than to try and 'enlighten' them, however satisfying or reassuring."

quote:Reading the bible I understood that God is real

There was your first mistake. Your second mistake was believing a book.

quote:Originally posted by emag:

it's not that I saw something, I don't claim to have witnessed miracles. it's more just events that have happened in my life that have convinced me that there is a higher power.

Whether you're convinced or not does not mean you can claim that Science cannot possibly explain it. Again, you have absolutely no way of knowing that. Argument's from ignorance are no arguments at all.



quote:

I used to argue that there couldn't be a god exactly as you are, exactly like you, but obviously that has changed, & it's not b/c I've gotten dumber.

I don't argue that there can't/couldn't be a god... I also didn't imply that you've gotten any dumber.

quote:Originally posted by 53v3N:

With justification, why do you believe in God?

Curious.

Shouldn't that be "Why do you believe in YOUR God?"

The answer is they were either told or concocted with their imagination a supreme God like existence for their satisfaction.

Just one blind flying leap of faith is all it takes and all the rest is easy street with only the evil doubt of reason treaded beneath callused feet with little pricks of facts trying to penetrate some conscious level of awakening.

They forgot the good rule: Skepticism, or "Doubt," is always the first armor of defense against foolishness. And any faith that can easily discard any reason or fact with the greatest of ease is nothing but a cheap thrill ride.

And in days of old there was "God's Law," simply because no higher form of authority existed. Which was just another form of Government. Of course, this assured that the man that could actually speak directly to God a high office.

And just like today, do you realize their is no real thing as "Government" that exists outside the mind? If you break a law there will never be a Government that comes to arrest you. It will always be another Man or woman under the name of government that comes after you.

The same as in the days of old when a man broke God's Law. No angels or Gods ever came to arrest anyone. Again, it was always another Man in the name of God that would come after you...arrest or kill you.

And whether it be in the Name of God, or the Name of Government, you are just as arrested or dead. Both systems, the God System and the Man/Beast System depends on Men for enforcement. And without the Minds of Men, neither would really exist.

A Government Building does not have a Government living in it, no more than a Church has a God living in it. These things exist in Man. More specifically, the Mind of Man.





[This message has been edited by MoonTalker (edited 12-19-2006).]

In other words: We have gone completely fucking insane due to overdevelopment of our brains?

I'm akin to agreeing with that.

quote:Originally posted by emag:

Originally posted by Rust:

If you were truly intelligent and/or wise, you wouldn't be making the ridiculous claim that Science could not possibly explain what you saw. You have no way of precluding the possibility that it could very well explain it. Maybe not today, but another day. The possibility exists.it's not that I saw something, I don't claim to have witnessed miracles. it's more just events that have happened in my life that have convinced me that there is a higher power.

I used to argue that there couldn't be a god exactly as you are, exactly like you, but obviously that has changed, & it's not b/c I've gotten dumber.

& believe me, I've looked at it from every angle before coming up w/ my conclusion. I have a minor in math so I know about statistics & the probability of the events occuring as they have.

& if I wasn't in engineering I'd be in psychology b/c that's one of my favorite subjects, so I do know a little about psych. & from a psychological perspective I know how someone's concept of god could easily be completely made up in their head (the mind is an extremely powerful thing), but I don't believe that's the case for me.



So care to explain these events?

Im pretty sure some form of science could explain them.

quote:Originally posted by among_the_living:

So care to explain these events?

Im pretty sure some form of science could explain them.I'd have to pretty much tell you my life story... & even then it's still not really something that's possible to explain. it's kinda like trying to tell someone what it's like to trip, you just have to experience it yourself to understand...

there was this quote i find quite apropiate:

this is about the gist of it.

Im an atheist, you are not. We almost think alike. I do not believe in a god, you believe in one and rule out all the other possible gods you could think of.

You are almost there.

quote:Originally posted by easeoflife22:



I don't believe in God, cause there is no evidence that one exists in any form. Only idiots can put their faith into something that makes absolutely no sense.

quote:Originally posted by rent-a-revolution:

How can you trust what you see?

Answer: You can't. If two people experience the same thing, they can both perceive it in two different ways.

A lot of phenomenon that seems to be god communicating to people can be explained through science, as with many alien abductions (sleep paralysis).

My aunt is a BIG TIME Christian now and she became this way because of sleep paralysis when she was a teenager. It was the usual waking up, unable to move, and feeling a presence in the room. She told me that she thought it was god communicating with her and I tried telling explaining to her what it was and she didn't budge. We also talked about other of her experiences and the conversations usually ended with "Alright, I don't want to talk about this" or with her praying for me.

Religion is a CRUTCH.

I am an atheist but I firmly try to follow a personal philosophy to always keep an open mind. Through my experiences in life, I've learned that one can never hold onto an idea or belief for absolute certainty because there is always something that a person does't know or can't understand. That said, I am open to the possibility of pretty much anything. However, I don't call myself an agnostic because I don't think that God can exist in the way that organized religions describe God. For me, all of the hippocrisy and general bullshit of organized religion is purely the workings of man in order to manipulate others in society. Anything so organized and packaged for society is tainted by the will of individual people instead of being a source to know of a pure and infinitely "good" god.

All of this still doesn't mean that a god doesn't exist, but it is one of the things that falls into "a remote possibility that can neither be proved or disproved and therefore isn't something worth thinking about in everyday life."

quote:Originally posted by psyc213:

go fuck urself and then poke your eyes out

then proceed to tell someone to tell Totse how dumbfucked you were to question the eyesight

just because your delusional doesn't mean the rest of us are

Au contraire, my loud-mouthed friend. There is no logical reason why we should trust our eyes.

oh, btw: http://www.fallacyfiles.org/adhomine.html

quote:Answer: You can't. If two people experience the same thing, they can both perceive it in two different ways.

Exactly my point. In fact you can't even know if either of them are right.

Not having read any posters above me:

I don't.

Do I believe in god, yes, I believe something had to create this universe, I don't know much about the big bang theory but I think something had to create the substances/objects/whatever for it to happen. I mean for people who say "oh theres no proof Im not going to believe that screw it" How do you believe that water is oxygen and hydrogen? Somebody told you. If you have been told that fact by some source you trust, whether in the case of here is the Bible or in our case the Koran or the Torah, or your mother or your father or whatever, or your science teachers, you believe things without seeing them happening otherwise, our scope would be extremely limited. How can you disprove the bible? How can you proove its wrong? Would you rather, go to church worship whatever it is, and at the same time having fun, rather than not worship anything, die and find out you are SOL.

But above all why are we bitching about who right and who is wrong, NOBODY KNOWS because NOBODY here has died and come back. SO you can't prove or disprove it.

I believe that water comes from oxygen and hydrogen not because I blindly believe scientists, but because EVERYONE believes those scientists. It's not like there's one crazy old guy somewhere dictating the laws of chemistry for the world to worship. Many, many trials have been done to prove the relationship, and the scientific method encourages independent confirmation of every result.

On the other hand, priests/clerics/shaman/rabis/etc. ask only that I believe them, and others like them, on the say-so of a holy book written ages ago. I can't independently confirm any god with an experiment or test.

quote:Originally posted by Interest:

I can sum it up in a sentence -

Before I surrendered my life to Jesus, I had to try to do good. Now that I have submitted my life, I have to try to do bad.

WIthin that sentence lies a very profound series of events that occured over a few years in my life. Describing those things would take much more then anybody here would be willing to read through so I'll spare you.

However, when I experienced those things I was also lead to the bible. For once in my life I could understand it and I read it over and over and over again. Wisdom and understanding of His word poured into me.

When I experienced these events of being born again I could not explain how or why my views and actions changed until I read the bible.

What I experienced was the true love in it's purist form that God has for us. The true love a father has for his son.

Reading the bible I understood that God is real and with us through the testimony of the prophets - I can't count the numerous prayers that were answered in my life but I can tell you the life I had before and the life I have today are two seperate people. I was born again a son of God. Until He grabs your heart and sets your mind on fire for truth and love will you ever know what it's like to know God.

I hope you understood that I would not walk in faith if I wasn't set upright and given another chance at life. I knew when I was lifted out of the pit I created for myself, it was a pit I had no power over, a pit I could not get out of on my own power did I know that God's hands have touched my life and set me free.

I am not religious because I know that following rules and regulations may help you live a certain way but it has no power to breath life into spiritually dead bones.



If god answers prayers, how come no amputees miraculously grow back their legs.

Get over it, theres no Santa either. If you are going to believe in a god, at least believe in one that could possibly make sense.

Read the fucking bible, especially Leviticus.

If you believe the bible is the word of god, and that god is perfect and all knowning, you must accept that there is no abramic god.

also, i can figure alot of ways to make the world better if i had infinite power, knowledge, the ability to look forward into time, and have infinitely good morality, yet we never see god do anything.

Jesus fucking christ you people are pathetic, get over your fucking stories.

You think that over a 75 year period whatever someone does either deserves eternal torutre or eternal happyness?

What kind of fucked up people do you believe in.

I deny the existance of the holy spirit, now im going to hell, with no chance of forgiveness.

“Truly I say unto you, All their sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter: but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin: because they say, ‘He has an unclean spirit’.” (Book of Mark 3:28-29)

Also, i insult my parents, and i have eaten pork and selfish, so leviticus says i should be stoned to death.

Would you rather, go to church worship whatever it is, and at the same time having fun, rather than not worship anything, die and find out you are SOL.



Your own opinion on the subject is fine, but bashing other peoples beliefs, you can go fuck yourself.

quote:Originally posted by 53v3N:

With justification, why do you believe in God?

Curious.

um...I dont...why im posting here? I dont want to study for a latin midterm

Why do I belive in God?

To piss you off.

If i didn't, you would have nothing to bitch about and would kick your mother's cat in pent up meaningless anger.

quote:Originally posted by Viraljimmy:

I don't think the Tao gives a shit. The Tao is not the same thing as "God". Two different things.

Exactly, nobody knows in any way that is provable one way or the other by 'empirical' scientific enquiry. It comes down to individual definitions of God, and they are as unique and numerous as the human race. There is no substitute for personal knowledge and experience 'each person needs to be convinced in their own mind'.

Whatever happened to tolerance? Why is it so important to some that they prove or disprove the existence of another's version of God? Nobody knows for sure, just as you saying that the Tao does not equal God is an assertion without evidence. It may be true for you, that is your subjective experience, however if you read the rest of my post you would understand the point I'm making is each of us has a 'God' or 'controlling principle' and whether or not that is real or a delusion it still instructs and guides one's life.

To the OP if you want a deeper understanding check out this site: quote:

The Varieties of Religious Experience

(http://www.authorama.com/varieties-of-religious-experience-1.html)



It's a fair read but it will inform you of some of the many and varied reasons people have come to believe, or not.

Peace http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

quote:Originally posted by rent-a-revolution:

How can you trust what you see?

By using other senses of hearing, taste, smell, touch?

quote:Originally posted by psyc213:

go fuck urself and then poke your eyes out



It isn't your eyes which have sinned you, your eyes are just doing their 'job'. It is your brain conducting the sinful thoughts.

quote:Originally posted by 53v3N:

By using other senses of hearing, taste, smell, touch?

Is it not possible that our senses can give inaccurate information about an external world?

The classic example of this occurring is in a dream or hallucination. How do you know your senses can be trusted now?

[This message has been edited by rent-a-revolution (edited 12-20-2006).]

SOME OF THE BEST EVIDENCE OF THE EXISTANCE OF GOD I CAN OFFER (http://sasisa.ru/2006/04/28/devushka_dnya__Anette_Dawn__20_fotografiy_.html)

now you're telling me that came from some amino acids that just happened to form in the perfect conditons, all completely by chance... http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

come on now, don't piss on my shoes and tell me it's raining

http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

[This message has been edited by emag (edited 12-20-2006).]

First of all, Old Testament rules: Jesus more or less said to forget about them.

also there was a lot of bitterness in that post. Are you an ex-christian?

quote:Originally posted by -Mephisto-:



also, i can figure alot of ways to make the world better if i had infinite power, knowledge, the ability to look forward into time, and have infinitely good morality, yet we never see god do anything.



Sure you can figure out plenty of ways to help the world, but would you really be helping the world? it's all well and good to sya I could do this and that, but what would this really accomplish?

For interests sake, what would you change about the world that would make it a better place?



I deny the existance of the holy spirit, now im going to hell, with no chance of forgiveness.

My own interpretation of these references in the bible is along the lines that it is not merely saying the Holy Spirit is a faggot that will get you condemned. But that you have to actively turn away from God and good, you have to actively become bad , evil , you have to repeatedly and actively deny God even when the truth is there.

And even when god offers you salvation you would have to spit in his face, not because you feel that god has been wrong, for example disagreeing with the way the Bible has been used to hurt and the way the world suffers. You would have to have turned away from righteousness in all forms and you gain pleasure solely from pain and unhappiness, to deny the holy spirit.

I could write forever reapeating the same drivel , but I'm sure you get the idea.

I don't, god is imaginary.

God is like a Santa that nobody's parents told them to stop believing in.

--Cr@sh

quote:Originally posted by emag:

SOME OF THE BEST EVIDENCE OF THE EXISTANCE OF GOD I CAN OFFER

now you're telling me that came from some amino acids that just happened to form in the perfect conditons, all completely by chance... http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)



... and you say you're not a dumbass. You sure proved that wrong; it took you only a few posts.

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

... and you say you're not a dumbass. You sure proved that wrong; it took you only a few posts.

agreed

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

... and you say you're not a dumbass. You sure proved that wrong; it took you only a few posts.

When I clicked on his link it came up in another language. But it worked for you? Is it just me?

I can guess what it must have been anyway, though, and I agree with Rust.

quote:Originally posted by JesuitArtiste:

First of all, Old Testament rules: Jesus more or less said to forget about them.

also there was a lot of bitterness in that post. Are you an ex-christian?

Sure you can figure out plenty of ways to help the world, but would you really be helping the world? it's all well and good to sya I could do this and that, but what would this really accomplish?

For interests sake, what would you change about the world that would make it a better place?



I deny the existance of the holy spirit, now im going to hell, with no chance of forgiveness.

My own interpretation of these references in the bible is along the lines that it is not merely saying the Holy Spirit is a faggot that will get you condemned. But that you have to actively turn away from God and good, you have to actively become bad , evil , you have to repeatedly and actively deny God even when the truth is there.

And even when god offers you salvation you would have to spit in his face, not because you feel that god has been wrong, for example disagreeing with the way the Bible has been used to hurt and the way the world suffers. You would have to have turned away from righteousness in all forms and you gain pleasure solely from pain and unhappiness, to deny the holy spirit.

I could write forever reapeating the same drivel , but I'm sure you get the idea.

What makes you so sure "My own interpretation" is the correct one?

Have you read the gospels of thomas, peter and mary? all the collected gospels that failed to make it into the bible as you know it because they werent deemed correct going off of what MEN said...to keep the church as it was with a male dominance?

Come now...you believe a text that is manufactured by men hundreds of years after Jesus death over all logic, that's just insane.

quote:Originally posted by Interest:

Until He grabs your heart and sets your mind on fire

Sounds uncomfortable.

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

... and you say you're not a dumbass. You sure proved that wrong; it took you only a few posts.whereas it only took you one...

& -1 for bring able to recognize sarcasm

[This message has been edited by emag (edited 12-21-2006).]

I want to take a look at the 'blaspheming the Holy Spirit' being the only unforgiveable sin.

Early in the Bible, it says that the breath of God is his spirit entering into us, and that through every breath we breathe we are taking in more of his spirit.

So then, blaspheming the Spirit would be to deny our own life - THE gift of God - through suicide, would it not?

quote:Originally posted by JesuitArtiste:

First of all, Old Testament rules: Jesus more or less said to forget about them.



For any Christian, the source of their belief is the Scriptures. Your 1/2 truth is deceptive.

In the OT there are two distinct Laws. One is the "Ceremonial Law:" the Law of sacrifices, festivals, circumcision, etc. And in the New Testament Paul goes on and on about the old Law being done away with, but when you read more closely you will see that he is talking about the Law of Circumcision. Even to the conclusion of Gal. 5:12, "I would they were even cut off which trouble you." In other words, to those that argue the Law of Circumcision, "I would rather they just go ahead and cut their dicks off and be finished with the whole matter." (A more exact translation, IMO)Christ did away of the Ceremonial Law.

But the Moral Law, the Law of the Ten Commandments...Quote Jesus: "...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." Matt. 19:17. What commandments? he was then asked. and Jesus then points to the old Ten Commandments.

I know this Book and the Story very well. And from the beginning it was written and delivered by Men. Men who claimed to speak to and for God. MEN! Always a Man saying, "Thus saith God..."

Now for those that don't really know the God of this Story, let me introduce him:

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." Isaiah 45:7 KJV

"Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?" Lam. 3:38 KJV

"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand." Deut. 32:39 KJV

And after giving the Ten Commandments: "Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; A blessing, if you obey the Commandments...And a curse if ye will not obey..." Deut. 11:26-28.

"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." Rev. 22:14 KJV

And he says he is ONE. ONE, get it. Good or Evil. Like one coin, two sides, good and evil. Heads (Do good) or Tails (Do evil), you choose. Obey or disobey. He is the King of Heaven, and he is the real King of Hell. He made both. And at the end he will stand before you and judge you, on his right hand is Christ and Heaven. And on his left hand is Hell and a pit of fire. He will decide where you are sent.

Quite a spectacle, a grand myth, if you ask me. But also, a lot of truth about the nature of Man is revealed.

"And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil...So he drove out man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life." Gen. 3:22-24

Which I think is a sharp two-edged sword. Two edges, an edge for good, and an edge for evil. It cuts both ways, but always, it cuts to the way of life: Good or Evil.

Life "Is," and LIFE is more about "Survival" than any opinion of man of what is really good or evil. It is good to be alive. Survive first, then worry about good or evil.

And if you are WILLING to burn in Hell for the right to think and decide for yourself, then I'm with you brother!

quote:Originally posted by emag:

whereas it only took you one...

& -1 for bring able to recognize sarcasm



Yes, it's totally my fault that you suck at the English language.

the christan faiths are all a fake...they just found out the jesus wasnt crusified and he had a father...im christan and im kinda feelin weird.. how bout u...

quote:Originally posted by worldsend22:

the christan faiths are all a fake...they just found out the jesus wasnt crusified and he had a father...im christan and im kinda feelin weird.. how bout u...

source?

So, there are now two Gods?...the evil asshole whom hates everyone from the OT and this new caring one in the NT?...no, didnt think so.

You still worship this evil asshole that hates everyone, he just puts up with all your shit cause jesus died.

Apart from the whole....Bible is incomplete.....only one point of view of the time FORCED in because the Romans didn't wanna lose control....then you're all set! http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

quote:Originally posted by among_the_living:

What makes you so sure "My own interpretation" is the correct one?

Have you read the gospels of thomas, peter and mary? all the collected gospels that failed to make it into the bible as you know it because they werent deemed correct going off of what MEN said...to keep the church as it was with a male dominance?

Come now...you believe a text that is manufactured by men hundreds of years after Jesus death over all logic, that's just insane.

I have no idea if my idea is the correct one. I merely put it forward for arguments sake. This is my interprtation, which is why I said "my" so as not to sound as preachy as I could.

Hell, Jesus could be saying slay the world, but that wouldn't matter, if he explicitly said "Slay my enemies before me," (you know what I'm talking about) then I would either ignore it or discard the book.... Unless it was portrayed in a badass way , then I'd keep killing and launch a crusade.... Y'know.... Like violent video-games have made me a killer.

I'm currently reading the Nt and the Gnostic Gospels, and I'll prbaly be going out and buying another collection of missing texts.

but I can certainly see why the Church would have bee disconcerted by the Gnostic Gospels, their ... Flavour,is different to the rest of the bible, plenty more obvious links to earlier philosophers. And, from what I understand when I read, it seems to promote a greater union with the Self and God ...

Oh , and I don't believe anything, I'm not Christian, I just enjoy arguing the other side of the argument after spending so long dis-regarding the Bible as comepletely as I did.

Besides. The Bible's a good book. Makes goood night time reading.

quote:Originally posted by emag:

I believe in God b/c there is a God.

here's my story:

I went to Catholic school my entire life, so of corse by the time I was in H/S I was denying everything I had been taught.

About midway through h/s I had declared myself an athiest; mainly b/c I take a scientific approach to everything, & what I had been taight failed to satisfy my logic.

I decided that I had to find it out for myself, rather than just going on what I had been told...

see, I'm an engineer, & being an engineer, if I'm going to believe something someone tells me, they better have a damn good proof to back it up with or else I'm just gonna completely disregard it...

Well, after forgetting everything that I had been taught, I was able to find the truth out for myself.

I now consider myself agnostic, because from my own personal experiences I am now convinced that there has to be a higher power. I've witnessed things that sciece cannot explain no matter how deep you dig...



So... you found the irrefutable proof you need to believe in God? Do you feel like, oh, I don't know, sharing the Good News with the rest of us?

Because really, you're kind of vague up there. "I've witnessed things that sciece cannot explain no matter how deep you dig..." and then you fail to give a hint as to what exactly you witnessed.

Really, I'm thinking of believing in a God, and since my imagination isn't that vivid, I was sort of hoping you could tell me just what the fuck I could see to prove that God is real. Perhaps a burning bush? Or maybe... what was it... oh, yes, the still small voice after the earthquake and the lightning and the thunder? Is that what you heard? Did you hear the still small voice of God? What did he say? Did he say something like, "Come follow me, my son?" because I think that's what he's trying to say to me too, I just need some confirmation from some other people, so I can, you know... baaaaa baaaaa baaaaaaaa.

No, but really, I want to hear your testimony of faith and all that shit.

I won't laugh. I promise.

Really.

Tell me, motherfucker!

quote:I'd have to pretty much tell you my life story.

Knock yourself out, we're all waiting...

quote:Originally posted by Hexadecimal:

I want to take a look at the 'blaspheming the Holy Spirit' being the only unforgiveable sin.

Early in the Bible, it says that the breath of God is his spirit entering into us, and that through every breath we breathe we are taking in more of his spirit.

So then, blaspheming the Spirit would be to deny our own life - THE gift of God - through suicide, would it not?

Could be? My understanding is that the blasphemy of the unforgiveable sin is referring to one who credits the works of god to satan/evil.

The picture is of a person convinced the works of god are evil(in context: as the jews were accusing Jesus that his works were of the devil) that person is unlikely to turn to that god for help, or forgiveness? Therefore the sin is unforgiveable, that is the error is beyond correction if one sees the only instrument capable of providing the correction as evil.

Peace http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Like some other users, I have had one or maybe two experiences in my life which I wholly believed were "The work of god". I believed that for a long time. There was just no explanation as to why such a great event could occur at the exact time when I needed it most (My vagueness is intentional). I was convinced for about a year until I had a several consecutive shitty events.

I was mulling over everything and I still do every day. I have come to realize that the good event was the result of something else. It wasn't god though - it was just another person. It was the law of chance. The bad events were more my own fault and aren't entirely relevant.

As an example, Let's say "Bob" is a poor man and is walking on the street. He finds a shiny wallet at the curb and picks it up to find several thousand dollars inside. Wow, perfect timing. He was poor and he's just got enough money to pull his life back on track. "This must be god's work" would have gone through his mind.

Earlier that day some dude named "Sled" was walking around and happened to have a huge wad of cash in his wallet for whatever reason. As he hopped into a cab the wallet popped out because it was so bloated. He went home and was pissed off at himself for losing his wallet.

Please tell me where god is involved in the above story, other than in the poor man's imagination?

Science disproves things that were once explained by religion. Zeus and his lightning is one example. Science is only progressing more and more to find new truths about aspects of life that we cannot understand. It is gaining ground on religious explanations and I see no reason for it to stop. One can argue we will never know if god exists because once you are dead, there's no coming back to tell stories. Well, what about people who have had a near-death-experience? Many say they see a tunnel with light at the end, or feel a "presence". Does the fact that we can simulate this experience with a strong, oscillating electromagnetic field around one's head disprove it? How about that someone tripping on Ketamine can experience the same effects? You might argue they are not "completely dead" at this stage, but it's pretty damn good evidence suggesting that there's no higher spirit kneading your brain around as you die. I think somehow an afterlife and the existance of god will be disproved -eventually-.

The counter argument towards science is that it's also a religion, that we are having faith in our senses which we really shouldn't trust. One can argue that there's no way to prove the world around us even exists outside our minds (Solipsism -Learned that word in another thread here). As if we could be living in "The Matrix".

The world we all see absolutely exists as we see it. I think a good way to disprove Solipsism would be to shoot me in the head, right now. My mind would stop but the rest of the world would continue as normal. Therefore it exists.

The above is probably disjointed and hard to follow because I just wanted to address a couple of different things relating to the topic. Oh well.

[This message has been edited by bobsled (edited 01-03-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by bobsled:

I think a good way to disprove Solipsism would be to shoot me in the head, right now. My mind would stop but the rest of the world would continue as normal. Therefore it exists.

That is an experiment that could disprove it. However, one cannot assert their hypothesis is accurate before the experiment has been done. So for you to know that the world would continue, you're gonna have to do it.

Of course, even then, you may not know, because being dead, you may not know anything.