I am being honest when I say this. I don't view Muslims in the same light as I view people (not a typo). I have become calloused in the way in which I view Muslims. I am not trying to be a troll. I honestly believe that Islam is bad. I also understand that there are bad Christians and Jews, however I feel that Islam (in this day and age) is the root of all evil. No matter what useless crap you Libs post about Christianity or Judaism, it will not change the fact that the majority of the worlds problems are caused by Islam.

quote:Originally posted by Jeebus Mic:

I am being honest when I say this. I don't view Muslims in the same light as I view people (not a typo). I have become calloused in the way in which I view Muslims. I am not trying to be a troll. I honestly believe that Islam is bad. I also understand that there are bad Christians and Jews, however I feel that Islam (in this day and age) is the root of all evil. No matter what useless crap you Libs post about Christianity or Judaism, it will not change the fact that the majority of the worlds problems are caused by Islam.

Really? I have one piece of advice for you. Read the Koran. I have never herd anyone who has read the book badmouth Islam. I do not wish to nor believe I would be justified in the defending of every muslim and his/her actions but you have to admit that as a set or morals; as a religion it is not flawed.

Oh, and in the future. Before you badmouth someone's religion whip out your good ol' history book. I challenge you to find me a signle era in which the Christians were not imposing themselves forcefully on a people. Say what you want about a few crazy towelheads in Afganistan but the Christians demonized and killed pagans, had upwards of 16 crusades (and I'm being generous with 16), killed hundreds of millions of native americans to spread jesus, and a primarily christian-established government, the US held foreign trans-pacific nations as protecterates (therefore classifying us as an imperialist nation) until the year 1946!

What have the muslims done? Um conquered Spain and Syria....oh and a few crazy ones the feds hired blew up the world trade center. Forget the fact that the Western world continually kills them and steals their natural reasources, how dare those sand-niggers blow up a few buildings? How dare they ever fight back?

quote:Originally posted by blackarmchair:

Really? I have one piece of advice for you. Read the Koran. I have never herd anyone who has read the book badmouth Islam. I do not wish to nor believe I would be justified in the defending of every muslim and his/her actions but you have to admit that as a set or morals; as a religion it is not flawed.

Oh, and in the future. Before you badmouth someone's religion whip out your good ol' history book. I challenge you to find me a signle era in which the Christians were not imposing themselves forcefully on a people. Say what you want about a few crazy towelheads in Afganistan but the Christians demonized and killed pagans, had upwards of 16 crusades (and I'm being generous with 16), killed hundreds of millions of native americans to spread jesus, and a primarily christian-established government, the US held foreign trans-pacific nations as protecterates (therefore classifying us as an imperialist nation) until the year 1946!

What have the muslims done? Um conquered Spain and Syria....oh and a few crazy ones the feds hired blew up the world trade center. Forget the fact that the Western world continually kills them and steals their natural reasources, how dare those sand-niggers blow up a few buildings? How dare they ever fight back?

Yea, how dare they continually murder and bomb innocent Indians in India, the West is surely to blame for thier psychoticness! How dare muslims in Iran continuously abuse/torment Christians in Iran. How dare they brutally bomb innocent civilians on 7/7 in London! How dare they bomb innocent civilians recently in Madrid! How dare in the Sudan how Muslims slaughter Christians and black Muslims while the women are being gang raped! How dare they kill innocent indivduals for simply converting to another religion! How dare had Lebanese Muslims killed Lebanese Christians for simply being Christian!

SEEING A PATTERN HERE? Scary seeing that this is just a small portion of what goes on from the peaceful religion. Doesn't look like a couple people in Afghanistan to me mind you. Btw, I am NEVER referring to Arabs in general, simply to Islam as for some reason, Arabs actually p



[This message has been edited by Testament (edited 12-17-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by blackarmchair:



.oh and a few crazy ones the feds hired blew up the world trade center. Forget the fact that the Western world continually kills them and steals their natural reasources, how dare those sand-niggers blow up a few buildings? How dare they ever fight back?

Due to this, I can't take the post seriously.

The OP is an idiot. But that is not the issue.

People speak of Islam killing a lot of people, and of course that is true. But, most of these people who say these things are Christians, and they are the last people that can talk.

If we were keeping track of death counts, it would be a blow out on the Christian side.

Again, this is not to single out any religion but rather to make people realize that religion in general can be evil at times.

Everyone thinks they are right.

quote:Originally posted by blackarmchair:

Really? I have one piece of advice for you. Read the Koran. I have never herd anyone who has read the book badmouth Islam. I do not wish to nor believe I would be justified in the defending of every muslim and his/her actions but you have to admit that as a set or morals; as a religion it is not flawed.

Oh, and in the future. Before you badmouth someone's religion whip out your good ol' history book. I challenge you to find me a signle era in which the Christians were not imposing themselves forcefully on a people. Say what you want about a few crazy towelheads in Afganistan but the Christians demonized and killed pagans, had upwards of 16 crusades (and I'm being generous with 16), killed hundreds of millions of native americans to spread jesus, and a primarily christian-established government, the US held foreign trans-pacific nations as protecterates (therefore classifying us as an imperialist nation) until the year 1946!

What have the muslims done? Um conquered Spain and Syria....oh and a few crazy ones the feds hired blew up the world trade center. Forget the fact that the Western world continually kills them and steals their natural reasources, how dare those sand-niggers blow up a few buildings? How dare they ever fight back?

Spot on!

I'm an atheist, but if i had to choose an religion out of those 3 i would definitely go with islam.

My God.

-=Sephiroth=-

Islam probably has no need for your sympathy, so what does it matter if you do or not?

Now, to be totally unsympathetic of people in general...well...it seems to me as though that is a part of the death of a person.

Also, be mindful of the evils perpetrated by some members of Christianity. I see no difference between the two.

People are people, no matter what they may cloak their selves with.

quote:Originally posted by Jeebus Mic:

I am being honest when I say this. I don't view Muslims in the same light as I view people (not a typo). I have become calloused in the way in which I view Muslims. I am not trying to be a troll. I honestly believe that Islam is bad. I also understand that there are bad Christians and Jews, however I feel that Islam (in this day and age) is the root of all evil. No matter what useless crap you Libs post about Christianity or Judaism, it will not change the fact that the majority of the worlds problems are caused by Islam.

And this kids, is the meaning of the word, prejudice.

quote:Originally posted by Holy Shit:

And this kids, is the meaning of the word, prejudice.

Bullshit, that's profiling.

quote:Originally posted by blackarmchair:

Really? I have one piece of advice for you. Read the Koran. I have never herd anyone who has read the book badmouth Islam. I do not wish to nor believe I would be justified in the defending of every muslim and his/her actions but you have to admit that as a set or morals; as a religion it is not flawed.



i have read the koran, and it has only solidified my beliefs that islam is a religion of violence and oppression. on virtually every page, there is a passage on killing infidels, or the kind of punishment you will meet if you do not submit to allah.

I respect Islam way mor than Christianity. And to be fair, if some foreign nation bombed my country and try to change the fundamentals of how it worked I might resort to blowing shit up too..

quote:Originally posted by oc6:

Islam probably has no need for your sympathy, so what does it matter if you do or not?

Now, to be totally unsympathetic of people in general...well...it seems to me as though that is a part of the death of a person.

Also, be mindful of the evils perpetrated by some members of Christianity. I see no difference between the two.

People are people, no matter what they may cloak their selves with.

Exactly. Religion, in its self, is always going to be a cause of war.

Be it Islam, Christianity, Judaism or 95% of all religions, people will fight those who disagree with their beliefs.

They must prove that their imaginary person is better then everyone else's.

quote:Originally posted by PirateJoe:

i have read the koran, and it has only solidified my beliefs that islam is a religion of violence and oppression. on virtually every page, there is a passage on killing infidels, or the kind of punishment you will meet if you do not submit to allah.

You're bullshitting, kthnx.

Islam is being generalized upon. A few Arabs here and there say they blow shit up in the name of Allah and all of a sudden, all of Islam has gotten a death sentence by most of the West.

It's idiocy, the good outweigh the bad and I'm very certain of that.

Most of the idiots here that are bringing Islam down have a really weird logic set going on. Now, I'm not in any way a religious person, if I were to blow up something, lets say... suicide bomb in a hospital, and I said I did it in the name of the Christian God, would I be seen as a Christian extremist?

That's certainly what you guys are thinking..

These Arabs are using their religion as a scapegoat, as a distraction for blowing shit up. It's a trick, and a big portion of the world is falling for it.

Nicely done, morons.

quote:Originally posted by PirateJoe:

i have read the koran, and it has only solidified my beliefs that islam is a religion of violence and oppression. on virtually every page, there is a passage on killing infidels, or the kind of punishment you will meet if you do not submit to allah.

I've read the same things in the Bible. Yet, you don't speak of that. Why not?

Religion, in general, is violent. Don't be naive and single out one, and worship another.

quote:Originally posted by Maxstate3:

You're bullshitting, kthnx.

Islam is being generalized upon. A few Arabs here and there say they blow shit up in the name of Allah and all of a sudden, all of Islam has gotten a death sentence by most of the West.

It's idiocy, the good outweigh the bad and I'm very certain of that.

Most of the idiots here that are bringing Islam down have a really weird logic set going on. Now, I'm not in any way a religious person, if I were to blow up something, lets say... suicide bomb in a hospital, and I said I did it in the name of the Christian God, would I be seen as a Christian extremist?

That's certainly what you guys are thinking..

These Arabs are using their religion as a scapegoat, as a distraction for blowing shit up. It's a trick, and a big portion of the world is falling for it.

Nicely done, morons.

lol. no. have you read the quran?

I agree to a certain point. I myself hate muslims, but that's probably because there are so goddamn many of them where I live. I don't care if they bomb eachother, as long as they stay the fuck away from our country.

quote:Originally posted by AnAsTaSiO:

I've read the same things in the Bible. Yet, you don't speak of that. Why not?

Religion, in general, is violent. Don't be naive and single out one, and worship another.

i don't speak of that because this is a thread on islam.

let it be known, now that the subject was brought up, that i do not make any excuses for christianity in terms of violence, with the exception of 3 points.

1) in the christian bible, esp the new testament, descriptions of punishment that unbelievers will reciever are not ON EVERY PAGE, like they are in the quran.

2) christianity, as a religion, has moved past its violent past. islam hasa not.

3) islam was initially created and spread by violence. christianity, at the time of its inception, was not. thats not to say that christianity hasn't EVER been spread by the sword, but that christianity had a foundation of peace, whereas islam had a foundation of violence.

All religion is the root of all evil. A retarded three year old should be able to see the good things about religion because they are so fucking obvious and then these stupid fucking jesus/moses/muhamed freaks go around taking every fucking thing in the bible literally and they fuck up the world. I believe that it is more than fair to attribute 90% of the worlds violence starting from the creation of modern day man to religion. And when I say creation I mean evolution.

quote:Originally posted by PirateJoe:



1) in the christian bible, esp the new testament, descriptions of punishment that unbelievers will reciever are not ON EVERY PAGE, like they are in the quran.



You most definitely did NOT read the Quran. That sentence is proof.

quote:Originally posted by king koopa:

You most definitely did NOT read the Quran. That sentence is proof.

uhh, i most definitley did read it.

in fact, me and my friend have a game.

we open up to a random page in the quran, and see if the page has anything to do with killing infidels/nonbelievers. first person that doesn't have anything on their page loses.

this game can go on for quite some time.

quote:Originally posted by Jeebus Mic:

I am being honest when I say this. I don't view Muslims in the same light as I view people (not a typo). I have become calloused in the way in which I view Muslims. I am not trying to be a troll. I honestly believe that Islam is bad. I also understand that there are bad Christians and Jews, however I feel that Islam (in this day and age) is the root of all evil. No matter what useless crap you Libs post about Christianity or Judaism, it will not change the fact that the majority of the worlds problems are caused by Islam.

Well you should probably talk to a Muslim in real life have them explain their faith to you if you feel this way about the faith. Would probably be the only thing that could ever make you think different nothing I say will. I can just tell you that Islam is being turned by the people of the Western world into somewhat of a scapegoat something we fear. You are buying right into it like many other people in North America. It's not healthy. Go talk to a Muslim.

most of the muslims i've met are pretty cool. the real fucking shame about islam is not being able to go out drinking with muslims, and that their sisters and daughters wear too many clothes and don't put out.

quote:Originally posted by PirateJoe:

uhh, i most definitley did read it.

in fact, me and my friend have a game.

we open up to a random page in the quran, and see if the page has anything to do with killing infidels/nonbelievers. first person that doesn't have anything on their page loses.

this game can go on for quite some time.



You're either a liar or an idiot, possibly both.

There is not acts of violence on every page, the mere fact of you saying that is proof enough that you did not read it.

quote:Originally posted by AnAsTaSiO:



If we were keeping track of death counts, it would be a blow out on the Christian side.



Efficiency! The ability to cut down your agressors with clear judgement and extreme prejudice.

Islam is pure evil and the terrorist apologists are helping Islam take over the world. Islam is the cause of 95% of all death and violence on earth today. More genocide was done in the name of Islam than any other ideology.

http://www.gendercide.org/case_bangladesh.html

http://www.masada2000.org/islam.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2829059.stm

http://www.islam-watch.org/

http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/

http://www.atcoalition.net/

http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/gallery/

http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/gallery/pages/6-Mein%20Kampf_jpg_jpg_jpg.htm

http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/moslem.htm

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

http://atheism.about.com/cs/islamandviolence/

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/southeast/08/17/martyr.culture/index.html

http://muslim-quotes.netfirms.com/jihad.html

http://www.domini.org/openbook/home.htm

http://www.persecution.org

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=9583

http://www.danielpipes.org/

http://www.angelfire.com/hi5/kafirdomunity/action.htm

http://www.geocities.com/khola_mon/BTaliban/Bangla_Taliban_Photos.html

http://www.bwoi.cjb.net

http://www.chechentruth.cjb.net/

http://www.anti-cair-net.org/

http://www.arabsforisrael.com/pages/1/index.htm

http://www.rotter.net/israel/

http://www.geocities.com/khola_mon/Islam.html

http://www.geocities.com/milkmandan2003/TalibanOnline1.html

http://www.truthtree.com/Debating/posts/755.html

http://www.isralert.com/archives/2005/03/deceit_thy_name.php

http://www.factsandlogic.org

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/zakirnaik/zakicaptured.gif

http://www.prophetofdoom.net/

http://www.venusproject.com/prophet_of_doom/toc.html

http://www.venusproject.com/prophet_of_doom/quotes1.html#terrorism

http://www.pmw.org.il/

http://tinyurl.com/ydc9qj

DECEIT, THY NAME IS ISLAMISM

By Beth Goodtree

Isralert.com source: Isralert subscriber/commentator Beth Goodtree

In Islam, lying or omissions for the 'greater good,' according to a strict or radical Islam/Islamist philosophy is not only acceptable, it is holy and blessed work. It is called al-Takeyya (or al-Taqiyya) and is a strategy outlined in the Hadiths and supported by various interpretations of some of the Suras in the Koran. We have just seen it in action and most people never even caught the whiff of mental ether the Islamists were pouring into the airways of the already comatose and choking non-Islamist world.

Al-Takeyya is a policy whereby a Muslim may lie, deceive or omit critical truths if it promotes the spreading of Islam AND the conquest of the non-Muslim world. According to William P. Welty, Ph.D., al-Takeyya/Taqiyya is:

"The Islamic principle of lying for the sake of Allah. Falsehoods told to prevent denigration of Islam, to protect oneself, or to promote the cause of Islam are sanctioned by the Qur'an, including lying under penalty of perjury in testimony before the United States Congress, lying or making distorted statements to the media such as claiming that Islam is a religion of peace and deceiving fellow Muslims when the one lying has deemed them to be apostates." (1)

And here is the definition from an Islam encyclopedia website:

"The word "al-Taqiyya" literally means: "Concealing or disguising one's beliefs, convictions, ideas, feelings, opinions, and/or strategies..." (2)

Now here's where the latest Islamist sneak maneuver of al Takeyya/Taqiyya comes into play. The Islamic Commission of Spain issued a decree against al-Qaeda terrorist leader Osama bin Laden. They did this in response to the bombing of a Madrid train last year by al Qaeda.

Mansur Escudero, head of the Federation of Islamic Religious Entities, called on clerics to formally condemn terrorism and pray for all terror victims. He went on to state, ''The terrorist acts of Osama bin Laden and his al Qaeda organization ... which result in the death of civilians, such as women and children ... are totally prohibited and are the object of strong condemnation within Islam.''

Sounds good so far.

But let's examine what this man did not say, as well as the timing of his little media-sensation fatwa.

This fatwa was timed to coincide with the 1-year anniversary of the bombing in Madrid. Sure, several hundred people died, but this is not the first time that hundreds, nay, thousands of people have died at the hands of Muslims merely because they weren't Muslim.

Therefore, one must ask why was there no such fatwa issued in the aftermath of 9-11? And why has no fatwa about the "...death of civilians, such as women and children'' ever been issued regarding the thousands upon thousands of Jewish/Israeli victims of genocidal terror ever been issued?

I will tell you why. This is al-Takeyya/Taqiyya at its most devious and deceptive. And the key word here is 'civilians.'

In radical Islam (Islamism), any Jew living in Israel is not considered either 'innocent' or a 'civilian.' Nor were the people living and working in America on 9-11. Islamists consider the 'Great Satan -- America,' and the 'Little Satan -- Israel,' to be enemy combatants. And this includes every man, woman or child, even babes in arms, even sleeping or in school or playing in playgrounds. This includes any and all who are not Islamists and who oppose being forced to kneel down and pay homage to Allah or his followers. In particular, Christians (whom they call 'Crusaders'), and Jews.

This also includes those of us who refuse to allow the Islamists to insidiously inject their politico-religious dogma into our way of life. And this especially includes Israel, whom the Islamists view as a polluting force in their quest for 'Arab unity' and a Judenrein Middle East.

So the fatwa issued by this Muslim cleric living in Spain was meant to put the free and civilized world into yet another coma. He was hoping we would see this supposedly 'peaceful and tolerant' religious edict and sing the praises of Islam and remind each other how it is a 'peaceful' religion, even though the word 'Islam' also means 'to submit,' and our utter and complete submission is what they are working towards.

The crafter of this latest religious edict, so proudly trumpeted to the world, has achieved nothing more than a clumsy attempt to delude us into thinking that Islamism is really nice and honorable and loving and peaceful. It is also meant to deceive us into believing that even though such edicts were never issued -- and will never be issued -- regarding Americans or Israelis, these particular Muslims are mainstream moderates.

Camel cakes! We are now familiar with the ploy of lying, omissions and deceit as sanctioned by al-Takeyya/Taqiyya. And some of us are not in a humanist/liberal feel-good coma like lambs going to the slaughter. And we will continue to alert you to the deceptions used by the Islamists.

The lesson to be learned here is not to look for what is said, but what is deliberately not said. If anything, this fatwa, by its omissions and timing (or lack thereof) has simply reinforced the fact that the Islamists do not see Israel or Judeo-Christian America as 'innocent.' It has reaffirmed that they see us all as ripe for deceit and murder in the name of Allah.

http://www.isralert.com/archives/2005/03/deceit_thy_name.php

^

I know i'm not reading that.

I guess that's fine since Islam has no sympathy for you, either. Especially considering Islam is a religion and not a being with human emotions.

And if you think Muslims aren't people, you should go back to 1st grade science class...

Cheers,

Lost

thousands of western folk may have been killed...but look how many people in the middle-east have been killed...in no way was any terrorist attack justified,but i think there was a major over-reaction.we should not take over towns and hold them.we should clear them of anyone who plans to carry out further attacks on the west or anywhere else at that.i believe with the technology we have we could eliminate the persons with bad intentions and leave the innocent be.

quote:Originally posted by yango wango:

^

I know i'm not reading that.

Ah! I knew there had to be a reason way you are totally illiterate and don’t know anything about Islam.

Nope the poster is just a retard and I ignore everything he spams.

Islam is going through a period of ignorance at the moment. Christianity did too, back in the dark ages. It's cleaned up it's act since then, but back then it was almost the opposite, with the Muslims being rational and the Christians being fanatics.

Sure, at the moment there are more pieces of shit in Islam than there are in Christianity, at least in the public eye. As a matter of fact, as far as I'm concerned, any person on either side that wants to strip down the rights of women (as both religions love to do) is a piece of garbage. That's the big problem I have with both of them.

(I'm not female, BTW).

[This message has been edited by panthermodern (edited 12-19-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Jeebus Mic:

I am being honest when I say this. I don't view Muslims in the same light as I view people (not a typo). I have become calloused in the way in which I view Muslims. I am not trying to be a troll. I honestly believe that Islam is bad. I also understand that there are bad Christians and Jews, however I feel that Islam (in this day and age) is the root of all evil. No matter what useless crap you Libs post about Christianity or Judaism, it will not change the fact that the majority of the worlds problems are caused by Islam.

wow i dont know if i have ever heard anything more ignorant

honestly

What, people still defend islam?.

When will people wake up to themselves. Open your eyes people...In fact i have argued this enough already, if you people just want to slowly be ripped apart then thats your choice.

quote:Originally posted by Spanish Castle Magic:

What, people still defend islam?.



Of course they do, why wouldn’t they? When the media keeps telling them what a nice “peaceful religion” it is. That is all they want to hear.



So do not talk about how car bombs, and suicide bombers, that are targeting civilians or how terrorists slowly cut the heads off of their victims. Don’t talk about how 3 years olds are being taught the joy of martyrdom so they can be blessed by Allah. Don’t talk about the mass crowds shouting death to the West and to all nonbelievers.



No we certainly do not want to talk about that. For it would be way too upsetting for those living in their own little fairy tail world of sugar and spice, where they are certain that love will conquer all adversity.

So Hitler is a Christian extremist? Nay, he's just some guy who happens to be Christian, just like Osama happens to be muslim. Hitler used Christianity as a scapegoat just as the terrorists use Islam as one...

PirateJoe, you're full of shit. Just shut up.

"Yea, how dare they continually murder and bomb innocent Indians in India, the West is surely to blame for thier psychoticness! How dare muslims in Iran continuously abuse/torment Christians in Iran. How dare they brutally bomb innocent civilians on 7/7 in London! How dare they bomb innocent civilians recently in Madrid! How dare in the Sudan how Muslims slaughter Christians and black Muslims while the women are being gang raped! How dare they kill innocent indivduals for simply converting to another religion! How dare had Lebanese Muslims killed Lebanese Christians for simply being Christian!

SEEING A PATTERN HERE? Scary seeing that this is just a small portion of what goes on from the peaceful religion. Doesn't look like a couple people in Afghanistan to me mind you. Btw, I am NEVER referring to Arabs in general, simply to Islam as for some reason, Arabs actually p"

How dare Christianity invade every country they feel the have the right to. How dare they feel that they are superior and murder anyone who believes otherwise. How dare the Vatican support Nazi Germany and Hitler. How dare Christian governments bomb hospitals and kill babies on an almost daily basis. How dare they exterminate the native populace of America. How dare they establish missionaries in Africa that exploit the people. How dare they establish the inquisition that comitted some of the most immoral acts upon humanity in the name of God. How dare they condone all the acts in the Bible (ranging from rape to pedophilia to torture). The list goes on and on...

"The anti-Semitism of the new movement [Christian Social movement] was based on religious ideas instead of racial knowledge." –Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

All of the stuff that you mentioned Christians have done the same and in most cases to a much greater degree (21 crusades, anyone?)

The oppression of women in some Islamist countries has more to do with that countries culture than Islam. The Koran is pretty accepting of women, and in there are many cases in the Koran where woman are regarded as holier than men.



Islam >>> Christianity

Atheism still makes most sense, though http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

[This message has been edited by ViVe CUERVO (edited 12-20-2006).]

I get pretty sick reading alot of the posts

like everythign revolves around the 3 main theistic religion

ill be honest i think they are a load of crap

not every religion is th eroot of evil

not every religion will kill out people who do not follow its teachings

im glad im not apart of such religions which are mostly talked of here

What kind of heathen are you? Not accepting the word of God or Allah as it is thought by their followers and known to be the ultimate in truth and wisdom? You obviously must surely be some kind of moral degenerate who will spend eternity rotting in hell.

Although then again one might be one of those rare individuals that are actually able to think for them self without needing someone “else” telling them what to think. In that case you truly are a “dangerous” person and must be always be on the lookout for those less enlightened souls who will stab you in the back because you dispute their “claims” of superiority.

I know one thing. All the violence and attacks in the middle east, including when muslims slaughter other muslims, is entirely attributable to the koran, the book that they believe in. There are no political, historical, or economic motivations involved at all. And if any arabs hurt americans, it's just because they are jealous of our real god jesus. All we need to do is go over there and kill them all, burn their babies and make them watch until they bow to our god, then rape the brown out of them. I think this would be an entirely new concept in the history of the world. And it would be fun.

quote:Originally posted by Viraljimmy:

I know one thing. All the violence and attacks in the middle east, including when muslims slaughter other muslims, is entirely attributable to the koran, the book that they believe in. There are no political, historical, or economic motivations involved at all. And if any arabs hurt americans, it's just because they are jealous of our real god jesus. All we need to do is go over there and kill them all, burn their babies and make them watch until they bow to our god, then rape the brown out of them. I think this would be an entirely new concept in the history of the world. And it would be fun.

Nope, sorry.

quote:Originally posted by Maxstate3:



That's certainly what you guys are thinking..

These Arabs are using their religion as a scapegoat, as a distraction for blowing shit up. It's a trick, and a big portion of the world is falling for it.

Nicely done, morons.



Spot on. Their actual intention was to commit suicide just to give Islam a bad name. But you were too smart for them.

Yes, Islam, like Christianity, makes good people do evil things that they would not otherwise do. This isn't news.



The OP is being quite prejudice though. Most Muslims aren't extremists and most of them ignore a lot of the Quran where it talks about violence and killing infidels.

The bible does the same thing and people ignore it, or else I would've been stoned to death several times by now.

Not 'weed smoking stoned' to death (that's not possible as marijuana is non-toxic) I mean hit in the face with rocks until I was dead for not being christian because my parents are.

Even your hardcore marginally insane fundie wackos still ignore those parts and pretend they don't apply and that they were just there to convey a message in ways the people of that time would understand.

How creationism isn't a message written in a way those people would understand I have no idea.

Although if you don't take the whole bible literally, it causes lots of disagreements (as it were, the exact number of christian denominations in this country) and then it's hard to take seriously.

But if you do take it literally, you have to be a brutal killing monster.

Damn.



I started off trying to defend christianity a little, but I end up in the same place every time.

It's not a bad bible, compared with the christian bible. But what the followers do is bad. Any religion is dumb. But in some ways, religion is good.

Religion keeps the redneck with the shotgun from killing because he's dumb enough to believe that Jesus crap. And religion is good because it keeps the dumbasses in line. But, it would be better if they got rid of some of the stupid shit in religions.

quote:Originally posted by ViVe CUERVO:



PirateJoe, you're full of shit. Just shut up.



alright. its time to play my favorite game.

surah 45:8

Who heareth the revelations of Allah recited unto him, and then continueth in pride as though he heard them not. Give him tidings of a painful doom.

surah 3:112

They are stricken with humiliation wherever they are found, except through a rope from God and a rope from the people. And they stayed in God's wrath and were stricken with humiliation; that is because they were disbelieving in God's signs and killing the prophets without just cause; that is for what they disobeyed and were transgressing.

surah 52:13

The day when they are thrust with a (disdainful) thrust, into the fire of hell

surah 26:189But they denied him, so there came on them the retribution of the day of gloom. Lo! it was the retribution of an awful day.

[and, on the same page...]

surah 26:201

They will not believe in it till they behold the painful doom,

Pretty much all of surah 77

surah 22:72

And when Our revelations are recited unto them, thou knowest the denial in the faces of those who disbelieve; they all but attack those who recite Our revelations unto them. Say: Shall I proclaim unto you worse than that ? The Fire! Allah hath promised it for those who disbelieve. A hapless journey's end!

surah 35:7

For those that reject allah, is a terrible penance

[and, on the same page]

surah 35:16

If He so pleased, he could blot you out and bring in a new creation

surah 6:128

In the day when He will gather them together (He will say): O ye assembly of the jinn! Many of humankind did ye seduce. And their adherents among humankind will say: Our Lord! We enjoyed one another, but now we have arrived at the appointed term which Thou appointedst for us. He will say: Fire is your home. Abide therein for ever, save him whom Allah willeth (to deliver). Lo! thy Lord is Wise, Aware.

i'm done now. keep in mind all these were found by just opening to a random page in the quran.

I used to have sympathy for the Iraqis under Saddam Hussein, but now I understand why they need evil despotic dictators. If the dictators left the infidels alone, it would be a good way to handle the muslim population in some areas of the world.

quote:Originally posted by PirateJoe:

alright. its time to play my favorite game.

surah 45:8

Who heareth the revelations of Allah recited unto him, and then continueth in pride as though he heard them not. Give him tidings of a painful doom.

surah 3:112

They are stricken with humiliation wherever they are found, except through a rope from God and a rope from the people. And they stayed in God's wrath and were stricken with humiliation; that is because they were disbelieving in God's signs and killing the prophets without just cause; that is for what they disobeyed and were transgressing.

surah 52:13

The day when they are thrust with a (disdainful) thrust, into the fire of hell

surah 26:189But they denied him, so there came on them the retribution of the day of gloom. Lo! it was the retribution of an awful day.

[and, on the same page...]

surah 26:201

They will not believe in it till they behold the painful doom,

Pretty much all of surah 77

surah 22:72

And when Our revelations are recited unto them, thou knowest the denial in the faces of those who disbelieve; they all but attack those who recite Our revelations unto them. Say: Shall I proclaim unto you worse than that ? The Fire! Allah hath promised it for those who disbelieve. A hapless journey's end!

surah 35:7

For those that reject allah, is a terrible penance

[and, on the same page]

surah 35:16

If He so pleased, he could blot you out and bring in a new creation

surah 6:128

In the day when He will gather them together (He will say): O ye assembly of the jinn! Many of humankind did ye seduce. And their adherents among humankind will say: Our Lord! We enjoyed one another, but now we have arrived at the appointed term which Thou appointedst for us. He will say: Fire is your home. Abide therein for ever, save him whom Allah willeth (to deliver). Lo! thy Lord is Wise, Aware.

i'm done now. keep in mind all these were found by just opening to a random page in the quran.

PLEASE don't get me started.

quote:Originally posted by ViVe CUERVO:

PLEASE don't get me started.

i'd like you to.

if you're going to point out that there are violent things in the bible, don't bother. there is practically no violence in the new testament, and the violence in the old testament is not nearly as concentrated as it is in the quran, and most of the time it doesn't even have to do with what the punishment will be for unbelievers.

quote:Originally posted by PirateJoe:

i'd like you to.

if you're going to point out that there are violent things in the bible, don't bother. there is practically no violence in the new testament, and the violence in the old testament is not nearly as concentrated as it is in the quran, and most of the time it doesn't even have to do with what the punishment will be for unbelievers.

Talking about selective thinking. How about the crusades? The inquisitions?

quote:Originally posted by PirateJoe:

i'd like you to.

if you're going to point out that there are violent things in the bible, don't bother. there is practically no violence in the new testament, and the violence in the old testament is not nearly as concentrated as it is in the quran, and most of the time it doesn't even have to do with what the punishment will be for unbelievers.

lol

quote:Originally posted by AnAsTaSiO:

Talking about selective thinking. How about the crusades? The inquisitions?

i thought were were just talking about holy books?

yes, christians did have a violent history, and had i lived at the time of the crusades, this thread would have been called "I have no sympathy for christianity"

christianity, however, has managed to move past its stage (let me remind you that in the time of the inquisition and the crusades, violence and religious persecution were rampant, almost to the point of being "socially" acceptable).

islam, however, has not been able to move past its period of violence and "modernize" so to speak.

quote:Originally posted by blackarmchair:

Really? I have one piece of advice for you. Read the Koran. I have never herd anyone who has read the book badmouth Islam. I do not wish to nor believe I would be justified in the defending of every muslim and his/her actions but you have to admit that as a set or morals; as a religion it is not flawed.

Oh, and in the future. Before you badmouth someone's religion whip out your good ol' history book. I challenge you to find me a signle era in which the Christians were not imposing themselves forcefully on a people. Say what you want about a few crazy towelheads in Afganistan but the Christians demonized and killed pagans, had upwards of 16 crusades (and I'm being generous with 16), killed hundreds of millions of native americans to spread jesus, and a primarily christian-established government, the US held foreign trans-pacific nations as protecterates (therefore classifying us as an imperialist nation) until the year 1946!

What have the muslims done? Um conquered Spain and Syria....oh and a few crazy ones the feds hired blew up the world trade center. Forget the fact that the Western world continually kills them and steals their natural reasources, how dare those sand-niggers blow up a few buildings? How dare they ever fight back?

I was excited while reading your post, but my hopes crashed and burned into smoldering pieces of shit after noticing you're beliefs on 9-11.

Idiot.

Don't be naieve. For the federal government and the current administration 9/11 was a fucking GOLDMINE. The Taliban is a CIA funded group that for some wierd reason suddenly become "anti-american" and decides to plan a terror attack. Hmmmm? Something's not right here. We then give Bin Laden a 3 month head start to escape and don't freeze his assets for an INORDINATE amount of time. We also gave his family in the US the privilage of leaving the country. Hmmm sounds like we're pretty buddy-buddy with the guy to me.

Plus outsourcing is a pretty common practice anymore, who's to say the feds won't do it?

Sorry bout the double post!

quote:Originally posted by PirateJoe:

i'd like you to.

if you're going to point out that there are violent things in the bible, don't bother. there is practically no violence in the new testament, and the violence in the old testament is not nearly as concentrated as it is in the quran, and most of the time it doesn't even have to do with what the punishment will be for unbelievers.



So what you're saying is when the bible allows slavery (even selling your daughter as a sex slave) as in (Exodus 21:1-11). When he allows child abuse in (Judges 11:29-40 and Isaiah 13:16). Bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9). Incest in Genesis 38:8-10. The murder of any who work on a sunday Exodus 35:2 –”2. The killing of children Deuteronomy 21:18-21 –”18. He condems not raping women and killing children in Numbers 31:14-18 –”14.

So what you're alleging is that the bible is free and clean of that kind of violent impurities that plague the Koran. I love you, you make sense.

[This message has been edited by blackarmchair (edited 12-23-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by PirateJoe:

i'd like you to.

if you're going to point out that there are violent things in the bible, don't bother. there is practically no violence in the new testament, and the violence in the old testament is not nearly as concentrated as it is in the quran, and most of the time it doesn't even have to do with what the punishment will be for unbelievers.

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me (Luke 19.27)

You fail, HARD. Oh, and is it possible that the reason Middle Eastern countries havent been able to 'modernize' (so to speak) is external, and not internal?

quote:Originally posted by blackarmchair:

Sorry bout the double post!



So what you're saying is when the bible allows slavery (even selling your daughter as a sex slave) as in (Exodus 21:1-11). When he allows child abuse in (Judges 11:29-40 and Isaiah 13:16). Bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9). Incest in Genesis 38:8-10. The murder of any who work on a sunday Exodus 35:2 –”2. The killing of children Deuteronomy 21:18-21 –”18. He condems not raping women and killing children in Numbers 31:14-18 –”14.

So what you're alleging is that the bible is free and clean of that kind of violent impurities that plague the Koran. I love you, you make sense.



Dont forget pedophilia!

quote:Originally posted by Viraljimmy:

I know one thing. All the violence and attacks in the middle east, including when muslims slaughter other muslims, is entirely attributable to the koran, the book that they believe in. There are no political, historical, or economic motivations involved at all. And if any arabs hurt americans, it's just because they are jealous of our real god jesus. All we need to do is go over there and kill them all, burn their babies and make them watch until they bow to our god, then rape the brown out of them. I think this would be an entirely new concept in the history of the world. And it would be fun.

The real thing I don't understand here, is how does that support your religion? So many people think like this, but after reading the bible many, many times, I'm begining to get a little jaded towards christians. "Love thy neighbor?" "Turn the other cheek?" "Nuke Iraq?" http://www.totse.com/bbs/confused.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/confused.gif)

I'm not saying that either religion is better. Both sides here think they're right, and both sides have the extremists that condone violence to all applicable levels. How does this justify slaughter? How does this make the death of a child benificial to anyone? It's no game, we're killing people for their beliefs. Just as you were born into a Christian society, and developed Christian values, they grew up in an Islam society. Putting a gun to their head and saying "Accept Jesus" holds just about as much water as them coming here, pressing an AK up to your forehead, and saying "Allah achbar!"

All of which makes me anxious. At times, unbearably so.

I don't support violence. If you've been reading I am very anti-war. And though I do not often agree with modern Christians I do not impose my beliefs on them as they are so apt to do to others. But you are right, no side is blameless.

blackarmchair, you are a nigger.

quote:Originally posted by PirateJoe:

i have read the koran, and it has only solidified my beliefs that islam is a religion of violence and oppression. on virtually every page, there is a passage on killing infidels, or the kind of punishment you will meet if you do not submit to allah.

I'm sure you have, im sure you have.

Qur'an actually.

Judaism, Christianity, Islam. These seem to be the ones that everyone talks about it so let me follow their political history for a bit.

The Jews had Israel a couple of times in history, but didn't really have their "state" until 1948. So after being pissed off so much for being homeless they now claim their home and protect it very violently. God forbid anyone bad mouth Israel, they have their "right" to exist.

The Christians had it pretty good. Controlled basically all of the western world since its rise, and spread like wildfire. Anybody in their way of world domination paid a grave price. But in the end they pretty much call the shots and are #1.

Muslims were pretty much concentrated to the Mid-East except or a few South-Asian countries and parts of Noth-East Africa. They tried to expand but the Indians and Europeans kept them back. Throughout most of the modern Ottoman Empire they minded their own business and made the mistake of aligning with Germany for WW1. Since then the West pretty much raped their land and belittled their culture.

So right now we have 2 stable and "modern" religions because of their dominance and establishment. And Islam is just now having to defend themselves from foreign aggression. Its not a matter of their time or their phase, but instead trying to stand up for themselves and trying to earn the respect of the world community. As this thread proves, there are still many who refuse to respect the faith and that only fuels the extremists to fight in its honor.



As far as the violence in the Koran, yeh there is. Just like the other 2, violence is part of religion, get over it. Islam is very strict and Muslims are very proud of their religion. How often do you see Muslims drunk, commiting adulty, or stealing? They should be model citizens for us. It is true they are very protective of their God, and have used violent language against those who don't believe, but in all respect, I quote part of the 10 Commandments:

4You shall not make for yourself an image, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me,

6but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.

7You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.

So the Jew and Christian God will punish children for the acts of their parents, up to the 4th generation. Imagine being held for a crime that your great-great-grandmother commited.

But if you love this God, he'll reward you

And this God isn't very forgiving for those who misuse his name.

I see the same level of extremism here.



And if you read the Koran just for the pleasure of finding negativity, how can you even say you gave it a fair try? I've read the Old and New Testaments and the Koran along with a few Asian texts with no opinion and I've benefited greatly from each.



And lastly, anyone who labels a movement based on the actions of a few is an idiot. I say we declare war on every white American male for their involvement in the KKK. Come on round them all up, we all know that every white American male wants to lynch blacks.

quote:Originally posted by AnAsTaSiO:

The OP is an idiot. But that is not the issue.

People speak of Islam killing a lot of people, and of course that is true. But, most of these people who say these things are Christians, and they are the last people that can talk.

If we were keeping track of death counts, it would be a blow out on the Christian side.

Again, this is not to single out any religion but rather to make people realize that religion in general can be evil at times.



Yes, everyone keeps saying that, and whether it's true or not Christians and Jews NOW don't do this. Islam and the countries it is based in continually kill people, and their culture/beleifs are exactly the same as the time christ was born....no fucking progress. Christians have learned, Jews have learned.

Religion is not evil, religion (whether you beleive any are true or not) is designed to prevent sin, evil, and violence. Evil is the fault of man. A perfect god wouldn't enforce pain and suffering for it's benefit, but man would.

I'm rather tired so if you notice any silly mistakes in my logic on this that's probably why.

quote:Originally posted by suck_my_muffin:

Yes, everyone keeps saying that, and whether it's true or not Christians and Jews NOW don't do this.

Yeah they do.

Every post I read on here makes me align more and more with the Abolish Religion thing.

quote:Originally posted by suck_my_muffin:

[B] A perfect god wouldn't enforce pain and suffering for it's benefit, but man would.B]

Sure He would.

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me (Luke 19.27)

Who's that benefiting, if not your perfect God? Doesn't benifit me any. Actually, this condones my death lol

quote:Originally posted by land195:

Judaism, Christianity, Islam. These seem to be the ones that everyone talks about it so let me follow their political history for a bit.

The Jews had Israel a couple of times in history, but didn't really have their "state" until 1948. So after being pissed off so much for being homeless they now claim their home and protect it very violently. God forbid anyone bad mouth Israel, they have their "right" to exist.

The Christians had it pretty good. Controlled basically all of the western world since its rise, and spread like wildfire. Anybody in their way of world domination paid a grave price. But in the end they pretty much call the shots and are #1.

Muslims were pretty much concentrated to the Mid-East except or a few South-Asian countries and parts of Noth-East Africa. They tried to expand but the Indians and Europeans kept them back. Throughout most of the modern Ottoman Empire they minded their own business and made the mistake of aligning with Germany for WW1. Since then the West pretty much raped their land and belittled their culture.

So right now we have 2 stable and "modern" religions because of their dominance and establishment. And Islam is just now having to defend themselves from foreign aggression. Its not a matter of their time or their phase, but instead trying to stand up for themselves and trying to earn the respect of the world community. As this thread proves, there are still many who refuse to respect the faith and that only fuels the extremists to fight in its honor.



As far as the violence in the Koran, yeh there is. Just like the other 2, violence is part of religion, get over it. Islam is very strict and Muslims are very proud of their religion. How often do you see Muslims drunk, commiting adulty, or stealing? They should be model citizens for us. It is true they are very protective of their God, and have used violent language against those who don't believe, but in all respect, I quote part of the 10 Commandments:

4You shall not make for yourself an image, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me,

6but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.

7You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.

So the Jew and Christian God will punish children for the acts of their parents, up to the 4th generation. Imagine being held for a crime that your great-great-grandmother commited.

But if you love this God, he'll reward you

And this God isn't very forgiving for those who misuse his name.

I see the same level of extremism here.



And if you read the Koran just for the pleasure of finding negativity, how can you even say you gave it a fair try? I've read the Old and New Testaments and the Koran along with a few Asian texts with no opinion and I've benefited greatly from each.



And lastly, anyone who labels a movement based on the actions of a few is an idiot. I say we declare war on every white American male for their involvement in the KKK. Come on round them all up, we all know that every white American male wants to lynch blacks.



Yea, model citizens whos societies hang people who are gay, imprison/murder people of different religion/cleanse societies of different religion, place everything in tune with some idiotic religous doctrine, treat women like shit based on this doctrine, etc. Are you fucking blind? www.thereligionofpeace.com (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com) depicts how much your precious people of Islam are fucking up the earth. Oh, poor innocent Muslims throughout history. You forgetting Turkey there dear boy? After the forced expulsion of king Abdul Hameed II, three men alone of the precious religion murdered 1.5 Christian Armenians, Greeks and their Jews. They then set forth for a RELIGIOUS WAR TO SLAY THOSE by the sword who did not follow Islam.



The stupidest argument is how the Christian bible also says violent shit. And? Christians are following out with these acts in today's world unlike Muslims are. Tell how model your citizens are in places like India, where people are gunned down for following a true peaceful religion and instead are being hijacked and slaughtered like pigs.