I used to be one, about a year and a half ago. I've found my savior and blah blah blah. But I've recently moved, and almost all my friends are athesists. Curious, I ask them why, and they said things along the lines of "well, there's so much suffering in the world, God is mean."

My friends in my old town were almost all athesists, but not because of "mean" God, because they believed God lacked evidence and could explain to you, in detail, why God(to them)makes no sense. These people claiming to be athesists, say God is mean and unfair. And that is all...

I don't know, but that doesn't seem right to me. Maybe these kids are stupid, but do a lot of athesists think like this? One friend of mine claims that's not athesism, that's denial, for if you're parents are mean to you, you can't just claim them non-exsistant(he's an athesist too)

So curious: Are there any other athesists who believe that as well? If so, can you elaborate more please? I don't really understand that belief.

"The problem of evil" is only a valid objection to the Christian god, not gods as a whole. The Bible claims that God is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent - thus, he knows there is evil; is able to do away with evil; and wants to do away with evil. So why is there evil? The only conclusion is that the Bible is wrong about God having all three of those qualities - or wrong about God existing at all.*

Your friend's analogy with the parents isn't a very good one, because as far as I'm aware there are no books claiming your parents are omnibenevolent. It would go more like this: A book says your parents want to be nice to you, are able to be nice to you, and know how to be nice to you. But in reality, they aren't. So you don't have cause to doubt their existance, but rather the book describing them. In the case of God, however, the only evidence of his existance we HAVE is that book!

*There are objections to this argument, of course. The most common is the "free will" objection - God needs to allow us to do evil in order for us to have free will. This argument is flawed in so many ways it'd take me a couple hours to write it all out, so unless you'd really like to hear why I won't go into it.

Edit: Just FYI, it's "atheists."

[This message has been edited by Twisted_Ferret (edited 12-26-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Twisted_Ferret:

"The problem of evil" is only a valid objection to the Christian god, not gods as a whole. The Bible claims that God is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent - thus, he knows there is evil; is able to do away with evil; and wants to do away with evil. So why is there evil? The only conclusion is that the Bible is wrong about God having all three of those qualities - or wrong about God existing at all.*

Your friend's analogy with the parents isn't a very good one, because as far as I'm aware there are no books claiming your parents are omnibenevolent. It would go more like this: A book says your parents want to be nice to you, are able to be nice to you, and know how to be nice to you. But in reality, they aren't. So you don't have cause to doubt their existance, but rather the book describing them. In the case of God, however, the only evidence of his existance we HAVE is that book!

*There are objections to this argument, of course. The most common is the "free will" objection - God needs to allow us to do evil in order for us to have free will. This argument is flawed in so many ways it'd take me a couple hours to write it all out, so unless you'd really like to hear why I won't go into it.

Edit: Just FYI, it's "atheists."



Okay, that makes sense. But the bible also does claim that God pulled away from the earth because of the sins of evil men. People didn't do what God asked, he stopped protecting them. Looking back on bible stories(Daniel, Jonah, Abraham) when the people did as God asked, they were not harmed, but if they sinned, God turned away. It isn't whether or not God is mean. Imagine if we lived in a perfect world. What would be the point? Suffering, does indeed increase faith.

quote:Originally posted by albinoblacksheep:

Okay, that makes sense. But the bible also does claim that God pulled away from the earth because of the sins of evil men. People didn't do what God asked, he stopped protecting them. Looking back on bible stories(Daniel, Jonah, Abraham) when the people did as God asked, they were not harmed, but if they sinned, God turned away. It isn't whether or not God is mean.

Why let people sin at all? Why turn away instead of helping?

quote:Imagine if we lived in a perfect world. What would be the point? Suffering, does indeed increase faith.

What's the point of living in a world that ISN'T perfect? You can have faith in a perfect world... and note that any flaw would make a world, well, not-perfect, so if a point is necessary a perfect world would include that as well.

I'm an atheist because of the pure fact that there is no evidence whatsoever to back up there being any kind of supernatural being such as a deity.

The argument of god being mean is a good one however as the poster above me said about the Bibles claims.

God got some people to murder a guy cause he was gethering sticks on the sabbeth.....people worship this guy, and yet they say "oh no..but thats the OT"...well...has God changed into a new God between old and new?...no.

Overall he is an asshole if you go by what the bible says...i think its a pretty good reason to doubt him/her.

some people use the word atheists as a broad term of non believer. Even know the actuall definition is somebody who doesnt believe a god exsists.

If there reason for not following a major religion is god is a fucken evil cunt that doesnt deserve to be worshiped there not an atheist. I dont know what that would be called but if they want to use the word atheist when people ask them i dont care if they do.

Sounds like they're just mad...

quote:Originally posted by Twisted_Ferret:

God needs to allow us to do evil in order for us to have free will. This argument is flawed in so many ways it'd take me a couple hours to write it all out, so unless you'd really like to hear why I won't go into it.

Enlighten me.

I'm an atheist because of that whole evidence thing and the fact that I don't want to use faith as a crutch and ruin my critical thinking skills while doing so.

As for whether or not God is evil... in order for the Christian God to be real, he would almost certainly have to be evil.

quote:Originally posted by among_the_living:

I'm an atheist because of the pure fact that there is no evidence whatsoever to back up there being any kind of supernatural being such as a deity.

The argument of god being mean is a good one however as the poster above me said about the Bibles claims.

God got some people to murder a guy cause he was gethering sticks on the sabbeth.....people worship this guy, and yet they say "oh no..but thats the OT"...well...has God changed into a new God between old and new?...no.

Overall he is an asshole if you go by what the bible says...i think its a pretty good reason to doubt him/her.

It wasn't the fact that God changed between the old and new testaments, but he loved the world so much that he let his own son die so we could have freewill(yes, I know it was cliche). When things like that happened in the old testament, it was do what God says or he will kill you. Yes, he does sound like a harsh God. But there was also repentence(David, commiting adultery, and repenting, he was forgiven). God gave his chosen people everything they could ever need, and yet they went and worshipped false idols. Needless to say, God was pissed off. It does say God is a jealous God.

quote:Originally posted by albinoblacksheep:

It wasn't the fact that God changed between the old and new testaments, but he loved the world so much that he let his own son die so we could have freewill(yes, I know it was cliche). When things like that happened in the old testament, it was do what God says or he will kill you. Yes, he does sound like a harsh God. But there was also repentence(David, commiting adultery, and repenting, he was forgiven). God gave his chosen people everything they could ever need, and yet they went and worshipped false idols. Needless to say, God was pissed off. It does say God is a jealous God.

Why worship a god that is obviously jealous?

quote:Originally posted by among_the_living:

Why worship a god that is obviously jealous?

Why make your God jealous?

quote:Originally posted by albinoblacksheep:

Why make your God jealous?

Surely if they are God they can control their anger, if they really are perfect they wouldnt get jealous.

God being evil and causing needless suffering is just one argument for being an atheist, and only toward an omniscient/omnipotent/omnibenevolent god. Since all major religions' God has those qualities, though, it is a fine and logical reason for being an atheist. Saying it like "God is mean" comes out strangely, but there is sound logic behind that.

The most common comeback is the freewill argument, that freewill is this super magical wonderful thing that couldn't exist without evil.

But good lord, did you ever think about what heaven was going to be? Do you still have free will then? Will it be perfect?

Damn straight. There was no reason for God to create us here instead of directly in heaven.

If you say we have no freewill in heaven, yet it is perfect, then why wouldn't he put us there now? Because we have to 'choose' it? If choice is so important, why do we have no choices in the rest of eternity then?

If we do have freewill in heaven , then what's the problem? There's clearly no evil in heaven now, so he could throw us all there, free will and all. No one in heaven would ever choose to leave God after seeing how perfect he is, so why would he make us all spend time apart from him in a place full of evil and with no obvious, clear, real signs that actually PROVE god exists so that we could choose him?

So yea. They do have a solid argument. I'm not sure why you thought they were stupid because they are completely right. Your faith contradicts itself, even before critically thinking about it's evidence in the real world.

quote:Originally posted by among_the_living:

...there is no evidence whatsoever to back up there being any kind of supernatural being such as a deity.

quote:Originally posted by among_the_living:

Surely if they are God they can control their anger, if they really are perfect they wouldnt get jealous.

Can you tell me of a god who isn't jealous. The gods of the Romans and Greeks were always jealous and fighting each other. God can indeed control his anger, but everyone gets angry, everyone gets jealous. Jealousy or anger is not the sin, it's what you do while you are angry/jealous that is the sin. Perfection doesn't get rid of all human like emotions, and if we are created in the likeness of God, it would make sense that he would get jealous, seeing as humans get jealous just as much.

quote:Originally posted by IanBoyd3:

God being evil and causing needless suffering is just one argument for being an atheist, and only toward an omniscient/omnipotent/omnibenevolent god. Since all major religions' God has those qualities, though, it is a fine and logical reason for being an atheist. Saying it like "God is mean" comes out strangely, but there is sound logic behind that.

The most common comeback is the freewill argument, that freewill is this super magical wonderful thing that couldn't exist without evil.

But good lord, did you ever think about what heaven was going to be? Do you still have free will then? Will it be perfect?

Damn straight. There was no reason for God to create us here instead of directly in heaven.

If you say we have no freewill in heaven, yet it is perfect, then why wouldn't he put us there now? Because we have to 'choose' it? If choice is so important, why do we have no choices in the rest of eternity then?

If we do have freewill in heaven , then what's the problem? There's clearly no evil in heaven now, so he could throw us all there, free will and all. No one in heaven would ever choose to leave God after seeing how perfect he is, so why would he make us all spend time apart from him in a place full of evil and with no obvious, clear, real signs that actually PROVE god exists so that we could choose him?

So yea. They do have a solid argument. I'm not sure why you thought they were stupid because they are completely right. Your faith contradicts itself, even before critically thinking about it's evidence in the real world.

I never said that they were stupid. I had never heard that argument used, ever, and all they said was, God is mean. That was it. That right there, those three words, that's stupid. Supporting your evidence, as you did, is not stupid. That was the difference.

quote:Originally posted by albinoblacksheep:

Can you tell me of a god who isn't jealous. The gods of the Romans and Greeks were always jealous and fighting each other. God can indeed control his anger, but everyone gets angry, everyone gets jealous. Jealousy or anger is not the sin, it's what you do while you are angry/jealous that is the sin. Perfection doesn't get rid of all human like emotions, and if we are created in the likeness of God, it would make sense that he would get jealous, seeing as humans get jealous just as much.

The 'God' of Buddhism, 'Self'.

God's what you make it, but in order for the God of Abraham to be (maybe even the one and only) god would have to mean that he is inherently evil.

He bet with the devil at the expense of one of his own believers.

According to the Bible, being born on a remote island where the word of Christ hasn't been spread means you're automatically going to hell.

He allowed humans to kill his only son (if you believe it happened as described in the Bible)

He banished his two earliest creations for eating an APPLE (after TEMPTING them)

&etc etc etc

There's tons of things God fucked up in the Bible if we're to believe he's not evil. And him being evil basically contradicts the premise of the Bible itself.

It's hard to take God seriously when he says and does so much stupid immoral shit.

Well they say God is a loving, caring being and people are getting shot in the streets everyday, losing everything to hurricanes, tsunamis, and getting their head cut off in Iraq.

The Bible is about as believable as Lord of The Rings to me. I don't believe I need to explain that, the Bible sounds like a fairy tale.

Alot of Christians say that the suffering in this life is a test of their faith and preparation for the next life.

quote:Originally posted by General Rodent:

Alot of Christians say that the suffering in this life is a test of their faith and preparation for the next life.

A lot of people also live in a locked down building with padded walls because they think pixies are trying to steal their shoes.....it doesn't make it true.

quote:Originally posted by DXM User:

The 'God' of Buddhism, 'Self'.

God's what you make it, but in order for the God of Abraham to be (maybe even the one and only) god would have to mean that he is inherently evil.

He bet with the devil at the expense of one of his own believers.

According to the Bible, being born on a remote island where the word of Christ hasn't been spread means you're automatically going to hell.

He allowed humans to kill his only son (if you believe it happened as described in the Bible)

He banished his two earliest creations for eating an APPLE (after TEMPTING them)

&etc etc etc

There's tons of things God fucked up in the Bible if we're to believe he's not evil. And him being evil basically contradicts the premise of the Bible itself.

It's hard to take God seriously when he says and does so much stupid immoral shit.

Several things in what you said here are only half true. Thing is about the bible, you have to take in everything, not pick and choose. When God bet with the devil to test Job's faith, since Job never once betrayed or denied him, he was given everything back tenfold. It also says in the bible everyone at at least one point in their life will have the oppritunity to know God. That doesn't mean he has to read the bible and attend church if he's stuck on a desert island. That means he will know God, and he can choose to follow him if he will. He allowed humans to kill his only son so that they could be with him in paradise. He loved us that much. He banished Adam and Eve because he asked them to do one simple thing, just one, and they did it anyways. You take all the bad things from the bible and throw them at me, but what about all the good things God did?

The reason I don't believe in gods, is that I can see there was a time when it was practical to have some way of explaining all the stuff that couldn't be explained, and that time is over.

What I mean, is that what justified religion previously, is no longer something we have to wonder about, or seek an explanation for, we have figured it out.

We know what generates lightning, and can even duplicate it, we know how gravity works and can prove it using science, we know exactly what the sun is, and so on.

Ok, there's still things we can't explain, but at least we know in what direction to look, instead of just looking to religion, 'cus that has never given us the right answers, at least not intentionally.

Religion, has in some form or another, been around since we developed an more or less complicated/detailed language.

That's fine by me.

The problem I see, is that if there was a God (no, not necessarily in the Christian sense of the word), then how come so many religions have popped up and died out again?

If any of them were right, don't you think we'd all agree?

Lots of stuff have been worshipped through the ages, some of the earliest examples we know of, is the sun.

The sun has been worshipped all over the world, for a very long time.

As far as I know, no one worships it anymore.

Once, it was viewed as the foundation of all life because people could see nothing would grow where the sun didn't shine, and a fuckload of other reasons.

Well, they weren't totally wrong, the sun is necessary if we want to maintain life on this planet, but does that mean we should worship a burning ball of gas?

If you choose to see it that way, the sun does a lot more good, than a guy from an old incomplete, self contradicting book, which the Vatican for example, won't let us see, very important parts of.

Why? -you ask, well, probably because those parts doesn't exactly fit in with their image of how it should be.

Horses, bulls, and a lot of other stuff that were important to people once, have been worshipped too, but now, they're nowhere near as important to us, and no one worships them anymore.

Ok, if we take Christianity as an example.

We have the bible, and that's all (plus what is kept in the Vatican, conveniently locked away).

Some people have decided to build their whole existence on an incomplete book.

Where's the logic in that?

It's not like the book ever proves itself right, it's loaded with flaws and contradictions, and the followers can't even agree on what is correct and what isn't...

And what about all the time before Christianity was invented (yes, I know it didn't happen over night)?

The bible doesn't deal with evolution, which is a pretty damn important subject.

Oh, and the muslims can't agree on their version either, so...

Then there's another thing:

Religion has been used for ages, and still is I might add, to suppress people, keep them from revolting when thier rulers treat them wrong, exploit them, and to justify some of the most heinous acts of cruelty ever to be seen on the face of the planet.

Right now, it's only holding us back from evolving, it doesn't teach us anything, and take a look at how many problems it still causes this day.

Finally, think about it:

Is it worth following a group of people, that advertise for their beliefs, using a toture victim/mutilated corpse, hammered to a couple 'o planks, and head wrapped in barbwire?

Personally, I think it's sick, but I remember you as someone I like, so I'll let it slide.

The second highest reason for people being murder'd since the history of murder has been religion.(Number one being moolah)

"This guy shares diffrnt religious beliefs then me......he should die." Was generaly the thought of the old days.

Now it's more like.

"This guy shares diffrnt religous beliefs then me.....he's gonna burn for all eternity in eternal hellfire."

The world would be a much better place with out religion.

I read about half the thread, not sure if anyone else saw how hypocritical it is to say "I don't believe in god because he's mean."

well, if you think HE is capable of being mean, that means you don't like him, not that you're an athiest.

were you on the otherhand to say "I don't believe in a god existing because I don't think one would act as such" That's closer.

Like Twisted said (I <3 you twisted!!) You can't stop believing in bad parents, they exist whether you think they're nice or not. Saying your parents are mean is in itself saying you believe your parents exist.

"I don't have parents" "there are no parents" On the otherhand implies they don't exist.

And no, I don't believe so don't try and go down that road.

quote:Originally posted by IanBoyd3:



The most common comeback is the freewill argument, that freewill is this super magical wonderful thing that couldn't exist without evil.

But good lord, did you ever think about what heaven was going to be? Do you still have free will then? Will it be perfect?

Damn straight. There was no reason for God to create us here instead of directly in heaven.

If you say we have no freewill in heaven, yet it is perfect, then why wouldn't he put us there now? Because we have to 'choose' it? If choice is so important, why do we have no choices in the rest of eternity then?

If we do have freewill in heaven , then what's the problem? There's clearly no evil in heaven now, so he could throw us all there, free will and all. No one in heaven would ever choose to leave God after seeing how perfect he is, so why would he make us all spend time apart from him in a place full of evil and with no obvious, clear, real signs that actually PROVE god exists so that we could choose him?



"No one in heaven would ever choose to leave God after seeing how perfect he is"

Lucifer.

"him in a place full of evil and with no obvious, clear, real signs that actually PROVE god exists so that we could choose him?"

Blame Adam and Eve. The Garden of Eden was perfection on Earth, and they lost it for the rest of mankind by betraying God. There was free will there, too. If there had not been free will, Eve couldn't have chosen to accept the fruit from the snake.

Also, the parts of the Bible dealing with Adam and Eve often make reference to God speaking directly with Adam and Eve. It could be implied that the Garden of Eden was a metaphor for heaven (as the Bible is full of figurative language, it seems.), and that when they were banished from the garden, they were put on Earth.

Just a thought.

These arguments are not just things I'm pulling from the air, they're in the Bible. I'm actually a theist, but not necessarily a Christian.

quote:Originally posted by albinoblacksheep:

I never said that they were stupid. I had never heard that argument used, ever, and all they said was, God is mean. That was it. That right there, those three words, that's stupid. Supporting your evidence, as you did, is not stupid. That was the difference.

Ah, ok then. Yes, I agree, simply making random statements (true as they may be) without logically backing them up is stupid. Although, if you were just having an informal fast discussion and the subject changed quickly, you know, they may not have wanted to explain it then or whatever. But I see your point.

quote:Originally posted by Ethanael:

"No one in heaven would ever choose to leave God after seeing how perfect he is"

Lucifer.

"him in a place full of evil and with no obvious, clear, real signs that actually PROVE god exists so that we could choose him?"

Blame Adam and Eve. The Garden of Eden was perfection on Earth, and they lost it for the rest of mankind by betraying God. There was free will there, too. If there had not been free will, Eve couldn't have chosen to accept the fruit from the snake.

Also, the parts of the Bible dealing with Adam and Eve often make reference to God speaking directly with Adam and Eve. It could be implied that the Garden of Eden was a metaphor for heaven (as the Bible is full of figurative language, it seems.), and that when they were banished from the garden, they were put on Earth.

Just a thought.

These arguments are not just things I'm pulling from the air, they're in the Bible. I'm actually a theist, but not necessarily a Christian.

That was actually quite an intelligent post.

By no one, I meant humans. Lucifer was not human. In addition, he did not choose to leave God, he just wanted to be equal or above him or however the story goes. He eventually ran off because God wouldn't have it and decided that he had to be the best and no one else could be that good.

But, are you saying that people in heaven now ever choose to leave God? It's not possible and that's the point, or at least not rational or however you want to put it, because no one ever does.

Also, (although I guess this gets a little off topic), just because Adam and Eve (or their 'real world' counterparts since creation is obviously not literal) chose wrongly does not mean I should also be punished, because that in itself would be evil, and would further prove my point.

I would like to say, though, that your post was one of the best counters to something I have said on here that I have seen in a very long time, and the best one that I can remember anyway. Congrads.

I used to when I was an 11 year old kidiot. Then I started taking a high daily dosage of adderal and I realized a real reason for being an atheist. People who follow religion are basically mindless. They seek false hope. Also religion is the root of all evil in the world. Theres more that I dont have time to explain right now.

I'm an atheist, in that i dont worship a god, but i'm not in that i belive in one. I chose to believe in a god simply because of all the unexplainable things that happen. to me, there must be SOMETHING behind it all, some "higher power". however, he apparently either

a)doenst care about the world

or

b) is evil in someway

I came to this conclusion from all the suffering in the world. if there was an all powerfull all good deity, he'd fix it. since i dont really WANT an uncaring or evil god, i chose not to worship him, though i will aknowledge his existance.

Hope this helps

quote:Originally posted by albinoblacksheep:

Imagine if we lived in a perfect world. What would be the point?

You mean, like heaven? What would be the point indeed!

This isn't atheism, it's called being a fucking pussy.

It seems like many of the 'atheists' on this board are under the age of 18, so the OP is really going to struggle to get in depth answers about the true feelings of most atheists.

Religion has been used to suppress people in the past, and it has been the root of extraneous suffering through the world. What many young atheists don't consider is the idea of a deity that exists through the universe without the need of an organized religion. If there is a God, why would thy need to be worshiped?

What my feeling on religion is that it has been damaging to the lives of many, but it also gives hope. It gives an explanation to situations that people can not understand. For every person murdered by a religious zealot, there are hundreds that live perfectly boring lives that use religion to explain the unexplainable.

My personal belief is that organized religion is for people with no imagination. All organized religions were documented by humans, so why can't my interpretation be right?

My Reason for being aethist is because i don't think that God is mean and unfair but just look at how hes taking care of the world, hes suppose to be such a great savior yet he created people like Hitler and look at him, he killed countless thousands. Look at the wars we had he could have stopped since were all his precious children yet he let them die. Look at the witch trials and all those people who burned because of him. Another reason is that religion is the start of almost all conflicts people kill for their religion and feel all other religions are inferior. Now i have nothing against religious people i have many devoted Christian friends i only have problems when people try to press their beliefs on me and try to convert me. So until God appears in front of me ill be and aethiest until he does.

If those atheists say that they believe that god is mean....that first require a belief in god.

quote:Originally posted by chickenpoop:

If those atheists say that they believe that god is mean....that first require a belief in god.

That is true. But you are probably misinterpreting their point. Their point is that "if god is omnipotent, omniscient and all benevolent, then all suffering on earth would end. Since there still is suffering on earth, god, as defined by Christianity, cannot possibly exist. Two solutions - redefine god or assume god doesn't exist". The reason I am an atheist is because no religion appears more than a fairy tale to me. If you start reading the bible (not listening to preachers. Most christians i know haven't even read the bible, that's why it's always fun to quote Psalms 137:9 or Exodus 20:21, they don't believe it's actually in the bible until you open it up for them and make them read it) and thinking about "why x happened" or "why did it happen this way?" or "is it possible?" you will see how ridiculous it actually sounds. God "Said let there be light". How did he say it? Out loud, with no air to carry the sound? Who did he say it to? Why would he say it out loud? Why didn't it say "he thought it was good". God called the light day and the darkness night. Is flashlight day? Nise! No round earth references in the entire bible? hmm.. interesting. Of course all of these questions can be answered by "faith" (Jesus Magic(R) or God's Mysterious Ways(TM) )

quote:Originally posted by boozehound420:

some people use the word atheists as a broad term of non believer. Even know the actuall definition is somebody who doesnt believe a god exsists.

If there reason for not following a major religion is god is a fucken evil cunt that doesnt deserve to be worshiped there not an atheist. I dont know what that would be called but if they want to use the word atheist when people ask them i dont care if they do.

while i will admit that u have a point about the definition of atheist, it is also used (although technically not correctly) to mean someone who doesn't belive. untill I find a word for someone who belives in god but doesn't worship (which is NOT agnosticism), i will call myself atheist

quote:Originally posted by Lamabot:

God "Said let there be light". How did he say it? Out loud, with no air to carry the sound? Who did he say it to? Why would he say it out loud? Why didn't it say "he thought it was good". God called the light day and the darkness night. Is flashlight day? Nise! No round earth references in the entire bible? hmm.. interesting. Of course all of these questions can be answered by "faith" (Jesus Magic(R) or God's Mysterious Ways(TM) )

I imagine that it was written this way so people at the time could understand it.

Suppose God was a hyper-intelligent being, but still confined to the laws of physics. Suppose his race managed to develop technology that could terraform a planet extremely quickly and then create life, which he did with earth. You can't just say that to someone at that time, or even now, because it would make barely any sense. So a metaphor was used.

Obviously I don't think God was an alien, I'm just trying to make an example.

You also have a condescending and close-minded view of other religions and ideas, making you a moron.

quote:Originally posted by 1217:

I imagine that it was written this way so people at the time could understand it.

Suppose God was a hyper-intelligent being, but still confined to the laws of physics. Suppose his race managed to develop technology that could terraform a planet extremely quickly and then create life, which he did with earth. You can't just say that to someone at that time, or even now, because it would make barely any sense. So a metaphor was used.

Obviously I don't think God was an alien, I'm just trying to make an example.

You also have a condescending and close-minded view of other religions and ideas, making you a moron.

#

# Moron:*Originally a scientific term, coined by psychologist Henry Goddard from a Greek word meaning "foolish", and used to describe a person with a genetically determined mental age between 8 and 12 on the Binet scale. It was also once applied to people with an IQ of 51-70 and was a step up from "imbecile" (IQ of 26-50) and two steps up from "idiot" (IQ of 0-25).

How does this have anything to do with being closed minded? And how does your post address mine at all? "The bible is not meant to be interpreted literally and is just a metaphorical story (also known as a legend) really meant to mean something completely else from what is written there" is kinda backing up my point.

quote:Originally posted by Lamabot:

#

# Moron:*Originally a scientific term, coined by psychologist Henry Goddard from a Greek word meaning "foolish", and used to describe a person with a genetically determined mental age between 8 and 12 on the Binet scale. It was also once applied to people with an IQ of 51-70 and was a step up from "imbecile" (IQ of 26-50) and two steps up from "idiot" (IQ of 0-25).

How does this have anything to do with being closed minded? And how does your post address mine at all? "The bible is not meant to be interpreted literally and is just a metaphorical story (also known as a legend) really meant to mean something completely else from what is written there" is kinda backing up my point.

quote:mo·ron

–noun

1. a person who is notably stupid or lacking in good judgment.

2. Psychology. a person of borderline intelligence in a former classification of mental retardation, having an intelligence quotient of 50 to 69.

http://tinyurl.com/q6n44

When I called you a moron I was using the first definition, the one most commonly used today. However I am glad you know your etymology.

quote:con·de·scend·ing

–adjective

showing or implying a usually patronizing descent from dignity or superiority.

You are condescending because you were reverting to insults and unnecessary satire to back your point up, and close-minded by dismissing the bible altogether as a ridiculous bit of fiction without thinking of reasons as to why it sounds so strange. Taken literally, of course, parts of the bible do sound a little silly, but as I stated before, it could have been written that way so people at the time could understand.

I personally am not fond of the bible. I see it as the word of God interpreted by man, not the actual word of God, which means that there are still some general truths in the bible as a whole. The rest is either something man made up or was revised by the respective churches to their interpretation and benefit.

I think we agree, I just may have misread your original post.

I thought atheists didn't believe that there is any god whatsoever. If they say "he" is mean, that acknowledges the existence of "him." Fucking hypocrites.

quote:Originally posted by ViVe CUERVO:

Enlighten me.



I'd like to hear his reasoning too. Still waiting for it.

quote:Originally posted by turkeysandwich:

I thought atheists didn't believe that there is any god whatsoever. If they say "he" is mean, that acknowledges the existence of "him." Fucking hypocrites.

You didn't read my post did you? Let me copy and paste parts of it for you.



That is true. But you are probably misinterpreting their point. Their point is that "if god is omnipotent, omniscient and all benevolent, then all suffering on earth would end. Since there still is suffering on earth, god, as defined by Christianity, cannot possibly exist. Two solutions - redefine god or assume god doesn't exist".

Thus they don't say god is mean, they say that a benevolent god can't exist. Then again i don't know what kind of "atheists" you were dealing with, just my supposition.