Ok Before I tell you this little tid bit thing. I'm gonna tell you about me which could change your perspective.

I'm 16yrs old, I've been prodestant my whole life, Never went to church really except when I was little. Lately I've been researching a bunch of religions. I found that I think I want to convert to Islam.

I ordered a copy of the Quran, I know this kid from school, He has been islam his whole life. So I atleast know someone who has this religion.

I'm just scared of what people and society will think. Now I'm american, I live about an hour from Washington D.C. I don't want half the country to point fingures at me saying i'm a terrorist. My mom doesn't care if I convert or not.

I also want any suggestions about converting to Islam.

Thanks Any feedback is appreciated

u shouldn't let what other ppl think decide what religion you are. There are many muslims in the country, and very few are actually called terrorists. u need to simply do what u think is right, w/o thinking about what others will think.

Hmmm, Islam sounds pretty cool, I think i'll covert to it..

Your an idiot.

quote:Originally posted by Hate Crimez:

Your an idiot.

it would be wise to reconsider decsion mabey?

is this the religion you really want?

have researched and heard different opinions about it?

compare this to others and dont just dive in.

i personally wouldnt be muslim as i see theres too many flaws.



read up on buddism, just search on google.

I have no problem as long as you dont kill any non-believers of Islam.

Did you read the whole Qu'ran yet?

quote:Originally posted by Hate Crimez:

Hmmm, Islam sounds pretty cool, I think i'll covert to it..

Your an idiot.

It's you're, fucktard.

Islam is a beautiful religion, just do some research on it before you convert, it'll help you make the best decision.

Oh, and don't listen to JeebusMic or any of them...

Are you willing to blow yourself up?

well, the important thing is to know about your religion, as it may define all your choices and ideas.

know the five pillars, and you have to know that it must be stricly followed. know what is halal and haram. basically know just about the religion. you can do it by talking to other muslims, possilby a sheik.

you seem to me lacking some fundamental knowledge though.

1) followers of islam are called 'muslims'

quote: He has been islam his whole life

it should be "he has been a muslim his whole life" or "he has been islamic his whole life"

also, what sect of islam are you interested in? Sunni? shiite? wahabi? kharijite? druze?

most probably, youll be a sunni.

quote:Originally posted by isTHATso:

I also want any suggestions about converting to Islam.

How about....YOU DON'T???

quote:Originally posted by Hate Crimez:

Your an idiot.

This guy said it best. ^

Cheers,

MOTO

Convert to Islam? Wow...If you are really going to convert to something, atleast make a wise decision. Islam is a pathetic offspring of Judaism; it is a religion formed on revenge and betrayal (story of Abraham and Ishmael). It is a religion formed in opposition of Judaism and everything it stands for. Islam's idiosyncratic ideas of violence should be the first think you should notice; and unless you are a psychopathic egotistical killer, I wouldn't recommend on converting. If you want to actually convert to a religion that might be meaningful, head towards Judaism. Then again, a true belief in God is what should allow suffice, as Organized religion is solely political, and you should know that, even at age 16. Most of the things that differ from the Torah that are in the Q'uran, you will notice have metaphorical undertones that are entirely political - and entirely based on an agenda to seek revenge for Abraham's rejection, and in present day translates into one day conquering Israel.

quote:Originally posted by ViVe CUERVO:

It's you're, fucktard.

Islam is a beautiful religion, just do some research on it before you convert, it'll help you make the best decision.

Oh, and don't listen to JeebusMic or any of them...



I did some quick research and found a few interesting verses from the quran.

Sura 8.12 "Remember thy lord has inspired the angels with the message. Give firmness to the believers and instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. Smite them above their necks and smite the fingertips of them."

Sura 9.5 "When the sacred months have passed, kill the idolaters whereever you find them."

Sura 47.4 "When you encounter the unbelievers, Strike off their heads. Untill you have made a wide slaughter among them tie up the remaining captives."

Religion of peace indeed.

Im a muslim and i have one thing to say:

dont you fucking dare say anything against non muslims that could be interpreted badly.

Everyones on our backs, due to a few extremists. If you dont go around trying to convert people, and if you inform them that the quran does *not* condone terrorism (true story), you can change the people around you to be far more accepting.

Thats what i did.

quote:Originally posted by Don Killuminati:

I did some quick research and found a few interesting verses from the quran.

Sura 8.12 "Remember thy lord has inspired the angels with the message. Give firmness to the believers and instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. Smite them above their necks and smite the fingertips of them."

Sura 9.5 "When the sacred months have passed, kill the idolaters whereever you find them."

Sura 47.4 "When you encounter the unbelievers, Strike off their heads. Untill you have made a wide slaughter among them tie up the remaining captives."

Religion of peace indeed.

Those are particular examples about non-beleivers who were violent against muslims first. They are exceptions, and are added because exceptions are always going to be important to note. The blanket statements, which we are meant to follow today, do not speak like that.

At least from what i gather from it.

quote:Originally posted by Nereth:

Those are particular examples about non-beleivers who were violent against muslims first. They are exceptions, and are added because exceptions are always going to be important to note. The blanket statements, which we are meant to follow today, do not speak like that.

At least from what i gather from it.

Exceptions? come on... The Quran is meant to be the word of god, are you trying to say that only certain parts are meant to be followed and others disregarded?

Also, saying that the "unbelievers" should be decapitated and what-not instead of simply calling them the enemy is clearly showing violent hostility to them for the simple fact that they aren't muslim.

In those times, when people attacked muslims, the best solution was to attack back.

In these times the same thing happens. If you 'started it' we will defend ourselves.

Those are particular examples of people who for one reason or another, could not be ignored.

as for the non beleivers. Well. They are. why would calling them enemies be any different? Infact, enemies is even more aggresive.

You miss the point. The point I made about calling them the enemy was that if they attack the muslims then they are obviously the enemy. By referring to them as unbelievers they are pointing out that their disbelief in islam is also a reason to behead and mutilate them.

The quran is meant to show muslims how to live isn't it? so if it's such a peaceful religion then why does the supposed word of god encourage violence?

It doesn't matter if these particular verses were written for when the muslims were historically attacked because they are still there as instructions for present day muslims to follow and some of them obviously do. If it really is such a peaceful religion then such texts should not be in there.

Worst idea for a thread ever..

And I'm not saying this because I dislike muslims or anything, I have more respect for 'real' Islam than I have for anything else.

The reason I'm saying this is because we both know you won't do this.

That's first, second is that we both know that Totse has become very muslim-hating over the years and... well... they don't take kindly to y'all muzlem lovin' folk ''round 'ere.

Either wait till everyone starts blaming someone else again, or post this somewhere else.

ahh...

Half the people on here are Fucking Assholes...

Thanks for the people who actually give a damn about peoples ideas..

As for all you Anti-Muslim people, Thanks for believing everything you hear about muslims...Assholes

quote:Originally posted by vazilizaitsev89:

I have no problem as long as you dont kill any non-believers of Islam.

Most Islams don't believe that they are to kill non- beleivers, Just the ones that are nuts beleive that

Converting to Islam, hmmmmm......

here is what you will be associasting your new religon with:

http://videohoax.ctyme.com/nepal.wmv (This website discusses hoaxes from real decap videos, this however, is real)

Do not turn your sound on....

Still wanna be a muslim?

quote:Originally posted by Don Killuminati:

I did some quick research and found a few interesting verses from the quran.

Sura 8.12 "Remember thy lord has inspired the angels with the message. Give firmness to the believers and instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. Smite them above their necks and smite the fingertips of them."

Sura 9.5 "When the sacred months have passed, kill the idolaters whereever you find them."

Sura 47.4 "When you encounter the unbelievers, Strike off their heads. Untill you have made a wide slaughter among them tie up the remaining captives."

Religion of peace indeed.

hey, just so u know, all abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) have parts where they say u should kill unbelieves. the Jews wiped out an entire race, and their god purposly made Pharoah hard-headed in order to be able to kill the first born. Christians have gone on more crusades than i can count on one hand. Islam, well, do i really need to explain that one? anyway, my point is, ppl in this post has said that muslim is a religion of war like its something special, when its really not. granted, most practicioners of Judaism and Christianty do NOT go around killing non-believers. neither do most practicioners of Islam. Islam is no more of a warlike religion than the other 2, they just happen to be the one CURRENTLY going around killing ppl

^ And that's why I hate all religion not just islam. I'm just saying it shouldn't be claimed to be a religion of peace when it's clearly not.

quote:Originally posted by bahamadude91:

hey, just so u know, all abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) have parts where they say u should kill unbelieves. the Jews wiped out an entire race, and their god purposly made Pharoah hard-headed in order to be able to kill the first born. Christians have gone on more crusades than i can count on one hand. Islam, well, do i really need to explain that one? anyway, my point is, ppl in this post has said that muslim is a religion of war like its something special, when its really not. granted, most practicioners of Judaism and Christianty do NOT go around killing non-believers. neither do most practicioners of Islam. Islam is no more of a warlike religion than the other 2, they just happen to be the one CURRENTLY going around killing ppl

Yea but killing dissenters is not a practice native to Christianity, or Judaism, or even the Islam. That's called human nature. You can't blame organized religion for animosity people feel for those different from them. That's just out nature. In fact, most modern religions, Islam included, preach understanding and peace in general. You're absolutley right there are aspects of all of the religions that condone violence on "non-believers" but the pros far outweigh the cons. There are some that take it too far I agree. But I personally believe that god judges me based on wheter I did right or not. Not by what particular religion I chose to follow and how much worldly sense it makes.

Isthatso, I think you should choose your decision carefully. Islam is not something you take on lightly. It is very calming and rewarding if you are willing to devote yourself to it. Yes, there is a good deal of social stigma associated with it, due mostly to pro-war propaganda but that's part of the burden and the test that Allah gives all of us. Read the bible, read the Koran, read the Torah make an informed decision. I think you'll find most the things you hear about Islam are untrue.

I wouldn't recommend being a fanatic of any religion, but dude: ISLAM?! Arabs are one of the most primitive peoples I can name, their beliefs are all about fucking like an animal all day and refusing to work.

quote:Originally posted by Don Killuminati:

I did some quick research and found a few interesting verses from the quran.

Sura 8.12 "Remember thy lord has inspired the angels with the message. Give firmness to the believers and instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. Smite them above their necks and smite the fingertips of them."

Sura 9.5 "When the sacred months have passed, kill the idolaters whereever you find them."

Sura 47.4 "When you encounter the unbelievers, Strike off their heads. Untill you have made a wide slaughter among them tie up the remaining captives."

Religion of peace indeed.

Theres about 1000000000000000x more violent shit in the Bible/Torah.

quote:Originally posted by Hate Crimez:

Hmmm, Islam sounds pretty cool, I think i'll covert to it..

Your an idiot.

You're, fucking idiot.

quote:Originally posted by isTHATso:



I'm 16yrs old, I've been prodestant my whole life,

Boy, your whole life and you can't even spell it properly.

quote:Originally posted by Feds In Town:

Theres about 1000000000000000x more violent shit in the Bible/Torah.

quote:Originally posted by Don Killuminati:

^ And that's why I hate all religion not just islam. I'm just saying it shouldn't be claimed to be a religion of peace when it's clearly not.

Please, no one on Totse has the work ethic to pray 5 times a day, give alms to the poor, go to Mecca, and what ever the other two things are.

Dude, I would wait.

quote:Originally posted by Don Killuminati:

Exceptions? come on... The Quran is meant to be the word of god, are you trying to say that only certain parts are meant to be followed and others disregarded?

lol because only islam does that http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

quote:Originally posted by isTHATso:

I ordered a copy of the Quran,

I also want any suggestions about converting to Islam. Thanks Any feedback is appreciated



If you really want to learn about the Quran then read the book “Profit Of Doom” by Crag Winn it can be found at http://www.prophetofdoom.net/ Yes it is long, 900 plus pages, but the author has a unique approach. He dissected all the stories in the Quran and then rearranged them in an easier to follow and understand “chronological order”.

Thus he is able to take you logically step-by-step through Muhammad’s life from is birth to his death. When seen in this context there is no doubt what kind of man Muhammad was. Simply put he was not a nice man. “He” formed “his” religion as a means of controlling his followers and also as a way to tell them to go rob and kill their neighbors because “Allah said it was OK”. At is core Islam is anything but a peaceful religion.

However with that said obviously we do have many “peaceful” Muslims. The problem here is the Quran specific talks about them and says if these hypocrites are not willing to fight in Allah cause then it is OK for devote Muslims to seize and kill them wherever they find them.

quote:Originally posted by ViVe CUERVO:

lol because only islam does that http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)





I don't think other religions are relevant in this argument, this is about Islam not christianity, judaism or any other religion for that matter.

As to the poster why do you choose to believe in an organised religion? Why not just worship in a way that feels right to you, surely your guess is as good as any other old books.

Or you could become an atheist, which Is my stand point on gods.

If you dont have infanticidal thoughts, dont convert to Islam, cuz they have a lot in common.

As i've recently moved into a more egotisitical ethical stance (ie, the lack of one)..

I'm going to tell you I dont like you.

If you want to be Muslim go ahead. If it makes you happy then definitly do it. Who cares what half this country says, the only people who will judge you are ignorant bigots, and who cares what they say. If it makes you happy, follow it.

Thanks turkeysandwhich and everyone else who weren't assholes.

Ok Alot of people connected Islam directly to Arabs and middle east people. Thats not right. The Worlds population of Islam is mainly in England and USA and some other place, It's all over the world, Some people just take their religion too far, Christians do it too.

quote:Originally posted by ninja_turtle:

Why not just worship in a way that feels right to you, surely your guess is as good as any other old books.

This probably makes more sense than anything else said in this thread!

Do your own thinking. Do not blindly follow or let someone else tell you what you “must” believe.

quote:Originally posted by turkeysandwich:

If you want to be Muslim go ahead. If it makes you happy then definitly do it. Who cares what half this country says, the only people who will judge you are ignorant bigots, and who cares what they say. If it makes you happy, follow it.

Did I mention that arabs fuck little children? Yeah, sure, who cares if everyone says your a sick fuck, just do what pleases you. :/

GTFO

Arabs fuck little children? Nah, silly rabbit kids are for priests! I don't know what exactly it is that you are referencing, as I said I am a muslim, I've never even had a desire to kill someone, or rape some kid. That's a very select few who the ignorant believe represent the many. And as per my post I was trying to help someone make an informed decision. There really was no need for you to make unfounded, prejudice, and largley pedantic comments regarding an alleged sexual deviancy inherit to the Arab race.

Arabs fuck little children? Nah, silly rabbit kids are for priests! I don't know what exactly it is that you are referencing, as I said I am a muslim, I've never even had a desire to kill someone, or rape some kid. That's a very select few who the ignorant believe represent the many. And as per my post I was trying to help someone make an informed decision. There really was no need for you to make unfounded, prejudice, and largley pedantic comments regarding an alleged sexual deviancy inherit to the Arab race.

quote:Originally posted by Dr.Speed17:

I wouldn't recommend being a fanatic of any religion, but dude: ISLAM?! Arabs are one of the most primitive peoples I can name, their beliefs are all about fucking like an animal all day and refusing to work.

Yea I can see what ya mean. A society that requires women to cover themselves and punishes adultery with death definetly ' constitutes a "fucking like an animal all day" mentallity. Not at all like America, the christian nation. Where its common practice to get tanked and fuck anything that walks. A culture that promiscuous certainly has the right to hate arabs for their sexual hunger. And what do you mean not working? My father, a muslim mind you works for the unemployment dept. here in WI. Do you have any idea how many Americans do not want a job and are content to do nothing but feed off the governemnt? Bite the hand that feeds them, well a fucking lot.

Whereas funny thing, I know off the top of my head a few dozen muslims...all of which are strangley...EMPLOYED! And work long hours to make the money they need.

I love you. You always think before you open your mouth!

quote:Originally posted by isTHATso:

Ok Before I tell you this little tid bit thing. I'm gonna tell you about me which could change your perspective.

I'm 16yrs old, I've been prodestant my whole life, Never went to church really except when I was little. Lately I've been researching a bunch of religions. I found that I think I want to convert to Islam.

I ordered a copy of the Quran, I know this kid from school, He has been islam his whole life. So I atleast know someone who has this religion.

I'm just scared of what people and society will think. Now I'm american, I live about an hour from Washington D.C. I don't want half the country to point fingures at me saying i'm a terrorist. My mom doesn't care if I convert or not.

I also want any suggestions about converting to Islam.

Thanks Any feedback is appreciated

You already made your decision, and you should follow through. You want to be Muslim then you should definitely convert, don't let other people make the choice for you. You need to do what you want, and forget everyone else. I hope you are happy with your new religion.

consider these questions



do you want your wife to be able to choose what she wants to wear like in the summer some shorts and a top or is she gonna wear a full body mummy costume lol ?

i would say ANY other relgion except islam lol forget islam become cathlic or baptist

You idiots need to know what the religion of Islam is. Try READING up upon it, not watching fox news.

quote:Originally posted by Dr.Speed17:

I wouldn't recommend being a fanatic of any religion, but dude: ISLAM?! Arabs are one of the most primitive peoples I can name, their beliefs are all about fucking like an animal all day and refusing to work.

OP, this is the sort of hateful, mean-spirited shite you will get if you convert.

God is a rather big target--all paths lead to God, but some are less arduous than others.

Do not follow advice--follow your heart.

I find it intresting that Half of Totse Hates Muslims and doesn't know how to do some research, And the other half actually have a brain between their ears.

If you think Islam is such a radical religion that kills everyone who is not Islam, Then try doing some research. You can find anything you want about any religion. Search the internet, Order a free Quran. Read up on it. Then come back here and Rethink your previous posts.

quote:Originally posted by isTHATso:

...Totse Hates Muslims

He said it himself http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

quote:Originally posted by isTHATso:

I find it intresting that Half of Totse Hates Muslims and doesn't know how to do some research, And the other half actually have a brain between their ears.

If you think Islam is such a radical religion that kills everyone who is not Islam, Then try doing some research. You can find anything you want about any religion. Search the internet, Order a free Quran. Read up on it. Then come back here and Rethink your previous posts.

Then can you at least tell us what compelled you to want to convert to Islam? Why do you feel that it's more suitable for you than any other religion? What aspects of Islam appeal to you?

A few suggestions: 1)Take a short time to look around, read the papers etc. Do the actions of present muslims make you want to join them? i.e. Do their actions make you proud? Can you see yourself oppressing women? 2) Think about why you want to join ANY religion? 3) Consider the doctrine. In this case, do you believe that Mohammad rode into heaven on a winged horse?

Hello isTHATso. How are you doing?

Before converting to islam you should be well informed about the founder, Muhammad.

Important! There is no going back because Muhammad said: "Anyone who changes their religion of islam should be killed..." Thats why apostates get killed so often in islamic societies. So before choosing this religion you better be damn sure you want it because getting out is out of the question (in some areas)

Did you know that muhammad had sex with a 9 year old girl (aisha) when he was ~53?

Or that he ordered scores of raids against jewish villages that never raised a hand against him?

Or that during one of these raids his followers had an old lady ripped in half? And that muhammad married her daughter (after having her entire family slaughtered/enslaved) the next day?

Did you also know that ~half of muhammad's 13 wives were victums captured in raids and that he also had a harem of slave girls captured the same way?

Did you know that islamic law mandates the husband beat his wife if he "fears rebellion?"

Did you know that muhammad broke his own "holy" rules dozens of times, such as having more than 4 wives?

Did you know that islamic law allows men to get away with rape?

Did you know muhammad ordered the mass-murder of 800 innocent jewish men and boys, then had them thrown into nazi-style pits?

Did you know that muhammad broke many agreements and treaties and said that "Alla has removed all my obligations"?

Did you know that muhammad has "revealed" holy quran verses for the sole purpose of lying to his wives? (over cheating on them with a slave girl)

NOTE: Much of what I listed is not found in the quran but in the hadith. Most of it has been recorded by Muslim, Bakhari, and Mohammad Bin Ishaq by multiple witnesses that lived with muhammad, all of which were muslims themselves.

Also note that I do not subscribe to any theology, however I reccomend budahism, christianity, or humanism to the warm hearted.

These facts I have given you are proven easily as they are multi-referenced in islamic scripture such as hadith, sirat rasul alla, tabari, and quran. If you need substantiation for this do not hesitate to reply to this message and PM me.

[This message has been edited by CrazyJ32 (edited 01-08-2007).]

Yeah, I have read that story of Mohammed marrying this girl after he killed her entire family and husband. That's cruel.

I have also read that story of Mohammed torturing some people who had killed one of his men. I mean, would a prophet put hot iron in the eyes of people, cut off their arms and legs, and put them in the middle of desert sun to bleed to death? I am not kidding, this story is straight from a Muslim book. To give you another example, Mohammed asked his followers to torture some Jewish tribe leader until he tells them where he hides his tribe's money.

There are just too many red flags all over Islam and Koran and other Islamic scriptures.

Choose wisely and carefully.

Yup. They lit a fire on that tribe leader's belly.

Guess what else? Muhammad goes on to marry his daughter as well.

Islam is sick.

[This message has been edited by CrazyJ32 (edited 01-08-2007).]

Oh, I didn't know that he married his daughter! Amazing how he was able to marry so many women and lust after his slave girls. I seem to remember that "Allah" used to come to his rescue every time he had issues with women, like when he argued with his wives, or wanted to have sex, etc. I don't remember the details on that, do you have any info on that?

Actually he didnt have a (biological) daughter. He did however covet and marry his sons wife.

(albiet he had to cough up some inventive scripture that -uh- accidentally banned adoption in the process. Cough -cough what a moron)

EDIT: Oops I misunderstood your post. For some reason I thought you were talking about Muhammad's (nonexistant) daughter. Sorry.

[This message has been edited by CrazyJ32 (edited 01-08-2007).]

Oh yeah. About the slave girl affair...

http://www.answering-islam.org/Nehls/tt1/tt2.html#p111 http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/mariyah.htm

Here are the quran verses revealed to deal with his wives:

Translated by SHAKIR:

66:01:O Prophet! why do you forbid (yourself) that which Allah has made lawful for you; you seek to please your wives; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

66:02:Allah indeed has sanctioned for you the expiation of your oaths and Allah is your Protector, and He is the Knowing the Wise.

66:03:And when the prophet secretly communicated a piece of information to one of his wives(aisha)-- but when she informed (others) of it, and Allah made him to know it, he made known part of it and avoided part; so when he informed her of it, she said: Who informed you of this? He said: The Knowing, the one Aware, informed me.

66:04: If you both turn to Allah, then indeed your hearts are already inclined (to this); and if you back up each other against him, then surely Allah it is Who is his Guardian, and Jibreel and -the believers that do good, and the angels after that are the aiders.

66:05:Maybe, his Lord, if he divorce you, will give him in your place wives better than you, submissive, faithful, obedient, penitent, adorers, fasters, widows and virgins.



Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

66:06:O you who believe! save yourselves and your families from a fire whose fuel is men and stones; over it are angels stern and strong, they do not disobey Allah in what He commands them, and do as they are commanded.

Ha ha ha. Now muhammad's trying to scare his pissed off wives with hell fire.

Read the two articles above as well. They're good for a laugh.

Please don't...

You're better making up your own religion, like me! http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

basically follow basic morals and laws unless the situation would require you to break them in order to better yourself or others - and you should always be looking to better yourself as a unit more then anything

Oh, and if you're smart enough (well, not fucked up - like doing random acts of violence or some weird shit) then you should be able to just go by your gut, as long as it checks in with above basic criteria, instead of asking yourself "WW JD?" or what would Mohammad or some prophet do or say

Throw some Christian god in the mix when you depressed/ break your morals stupidly

It's been working great for me!

FYI: decisions always fuck this up, like when I was little and thinking about things, liek how decisions affect the future I would think of like the chaos theory and what would happen if I did this or should I do this cause I don't do it a lot... but then it's not different. Anyway, that's why I developed the gut method, if it quacks like a duck, flies like a duck (as in if it feels right, it must be so) - you get the picture? I hope..

[This message has been edited by thrazr (edited 01-08-2007).]

*sigh*

I don't even know where to begin with you guys.

First, to the people talking about oppressing woman, you don't even know what the head scarf is about. It's about giving a woman modesty, privacy, and morality.

%99.9 of people in the west wouldn't understand this.

To the person talking about Craig Winn's prophet of doom, here is a debate between Craig Winn and a real Muslim. Listen to how dumb Craig Winn sounds: http://tinyurl.com/rvnc3

And finally, to the OP: Here is a guy who use to be a Christian Priest, and now is Muslim. His name is Yusuf Estes

http://tinyurl.com/ymree6

I HIGHLY suggest you watch that, and youtube a bunch of his other little videos too.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

quote:Originally posted by Chinese Food52:

First, to the people talking about oppressing woman, you don't even know what the head scarf is about. It's about giving a woman modesty, privacy, and morality.

Thats the usual crappy excuse I'm used to. What about women who'd prefer not to wear the god-awful thing? What about women who if they dont wear it will get ridiculed/shunned/beaten by their "loving" islamic family?

What about the saudi sheik that says girls as young as 7 should be beaten for not wearing it?

What about how your "prophet" said its not fitting for women to expose any skin other than the bare minimum?

How about the australian mullah that said about rape: "Uncovered women are like uncovered meat. Is it the cat's fault he ate the uncovered meat?"

What about the barbaric muslim mentality that believes its the women's fault if she gets raped?



Well I'll tell you what its all about. Its about a joke of a man that made excuses for every sick thing him and his followers did instead of punishing them. A real man would do this, but not old mo. As a result muslims walk through life with upside-down morals:

Rape victums are the ones to blame.

Killing people for insulting muhammad is OK.

Killing people for leaving islam is OK

Old men boinking pre-pubescent girls is OK.

Wearing a burka is a sign of Chastidy. (And if anyone disagrees their automaticly considered a whore)

The list of stupidity goes on forever...



quote:Originally posted by Chinese Food52:

%99.9 of people in the west wouldn't understand this.

That is because it is backward. 99% of the people in the west also wouldn't understand rain dances. (albeit this is much less harmful)

quote:Originally posted by Chinese Food52:

To the person talking about Craig Winn's prophet of doom, here is a debate between Craig Winn and a real Muslim. Listen to how dumb Craig Winn sounds: http://tinyurl.com/rvnc3

Iv heard that debate before and Craig Winn kicked the muslim's ass. You can tell by the fact he got hotter and hotter, 5 more minutes and he'd have been screaming.

quote:Originally posted by Chinese Food52:

And finally, to the OP: Here is a guy who use to be a Christian Priest, and now is Muslim. His name is Yusuf Estes

LoL your silly converts impress no-one. Not even Mr Usef Islam (formerly Cat Stevens). He agrees that someone should be killed for writing an anti-islamic book and refuses to condemn palestinian terrorists.

I may have to post some utube videos by famous apostates like Walid Shoebat. He'll kick any of your converts' asses.



[This message has been edited by CrazyJ32 (edited 01-08-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by CrazyJ32:

Thats the usual crappy excuse I'm used to. What about women who'd prefer not to wear the uncomfortable thing? What about women who if they dont wear it will get ridiculed/shunned/beaten by their "loving" islamic family?



I have a sister that's 24, she doesn't wear it, and she isn't shunned? And before you say it's cause I live in a Western country, I've lived in the Middle East, and it's not like that either. Maybe in ridiclious places like Iran, and Saudia Arabia.

quote:

What about the saudi sheik that says girls as young as 7 should be beaten for not wearing it?



You know, Frankly, I don't care what most Sheiks say, unless I personally know them, and trust them. Especially a Saudi Sheik... that countries ridiciliously corrupt.

I got an idea, next lady you see at the Supermarket that is wearing a headscarf, ask her if she is wearing it beyond her control. Ask her if SHE wants to be wearing it... I'm sure you'll be suprised.

quote:What about how your "prophet" said its not fitting for women to expose any skin other than the bare minimum?

What is bare minimum? Hands, face? Like I said, most people from the west wouldn't understand it, because they grew up in a place, where the more skin the girl shows, the better.



quote:How about the australian mullah that said about rape: "Uncovered women are like uncovered meat. Is it the cat's fault he ate the uncovered meat?"



What about the barbaric muslim mentality that believe's its the women's fault if she gets raped?



It's a womans fault if she gets raped? What? It IS partially a womans fault, if she dresses like a whore, flirts with a guy, gets in his car with him, goes back to his place, gets drunk, has sex, and the next day cries rape... yeah, that's her fault. But a full front rape? No, that's not a womans fault. Infact, here's a poem by a Muslim Poet called beautiful. http://www.myspace.com/amirsulaiman

quote:Well I'll tell you what its all about. Its about a joke of a man that made excuses for every sick thing him and his followers did instead of punishing them for the bad things they did. A real man would do this, but not old mo. As a result muslims walk through life with upside-down morals:

Haha, a non-Muslim is telling a Muslim what Islam is about? Thanks, I really needed your insight to understand my religion. http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

quote:

Rape victums are the ones to blame.

Killing people for insulting muhammad is OK.

Killing people for leaving islam is OK

Old men boinking pre-pubescent girls is OK.

Wearing a burka is a sign of Chastidy. (And if anyone disagrees their automaticly considered a whore)

The list of stupidity goes on forever...

I don't feel like addressing these one by one cause I've addressed most of them. But here is a story that I was told when I was a kid by my mom.

When Islam was first spreading, there was an elderly lady who always use to insult the Prophet as he walked by her house everday. She would do things such as swear at him, even got to the point of throwing stones at him. Then one day, she wasn't outside when he walked by. Then again, the next day she wasn't outside, and the next and the next. So finally the Prophet went to her house to see if she was okay.

Does that sound like killing her? Naaw.

Here's a surah called Al-Kafiroon (The Non-Believers)

1. Say : O ye that reject Faith!

2. I worship not that which ye worship,

3. Nor will ye worship that which I worship.

4. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,

5. Nor will ye worship that which I worship.

6. To you be your Way, and to me mine

See the last line, to be your way, and to me mine... that doesn't say kill people who don't believe in Islam.

quote:That is because it is backward. 99% of the people in the west also wouldn't understand rain dances. (albeit this is much less harmful)

Of course, everything the West doesn't agree with must be Backwards!

This is what's wrong with Public schools these days.



quote:



quote:Iv heard that debate before and craig winn kicked the muslim's ass. You can tell by the fact he got hotter and hotter, 5 more minutes and he'd have been screaming.

Haha, 5 more minutes and he'd be screaming? Even the Radio DJ was beginning to realise that Craig Winn was sounding like a dumbass.

quote:

LoL your silly converts impress no-one. Not even the usef islam (formerly cat stevens). He agrees that someone should die for writing an anti-islamic book and refuses to condemn palestinian terrorists.

I wasn't trying to impress anyone... I was trying to show the OP who was looking for suggestions, so I gave him a video of a convert.

And Cat Stevens(Yusuf Islam) is the shit! http://www.totse.com/bbs/cool.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/cool.gif)

quote:I may have to post some utube videos by famous apostates like Walid Shoebat. He'll kick any of your converts' asses.

Oh yeah! Let's have a fight on converts! Yeah, lets post Youtube videos that counter each other! http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

Haha, you're a tool, and hardly worth my time.

quote:Originally posted by Chinese Food52:

I have a sister that's 24, she doesn't wear it, and she isn't shunned? And before you say it's cause I live in a Western country, I've lived in the Middle East, and it's not like that either. Maybe in ridiclious places like Iran, and Saudia Arabia.

You forgot about pakistan, afganistan, half of turkey, londonistan, many areas of eurpoe, etc.

I bet you live in malaysia. Either way its bad for women in most countries with a 50% muslim population or greater.



quote:Originally posted by Chinese Food52:

I got an idea, next lady you see at the Supermarket that is wearing a headscarf, ask her if she is wearing it beyond her control. Ask her if SHE wants to be wearing it... I'm sure you'll be suprised.

This is the effect of brainwashing. I know plenty muslims (indeed even some non-muslims) that just can't take it off because they've been wearing it all their life.

But you'll just say this is an illusion caused by anti-islamic bias.

quote:Originally posted by Chinese Food52:

CrazyJ32 wrote:

What about how your "prophet" said its not fitting for women to expose any skin other than the bare minimum?

What is bare minimum? Hands, face? Like I said, most people from the west wouldn't understand it, because they grew up in a place, where the more skin the girl shows, the better.

Nice way to avoid the point, being that muhammad was mysogynist that loved to oppress and subdue women. And if the hadith are to believed he intended just that -the bare minimum. Why intrepret it any differently?

quote:Originally posted by Chinese Food52:

It's a womans fault if she gets raped? What? It IS partially a womans fault, if she dresses like a whore, flirts with a guy, gets in his car with him, goes back to his place, gets drunk, has sex, and the next day cries rape... yeah, that's her fault.

I never implied anything like that.

Tell me, do you consider it rape when a gang of filthy muslim men gang up on an "dirty", uncovered australian infidel? Because this is what the mufti in australia was referring to. Infact when he recieved public condemnation for his stupidity thousands of his followere protested in the streets crying "Opression!" Your brothers will excuse any form of animal behavior.

quote:Originally posted by Chinese Food52:

Haha, a non-Muslim is telling a Muslim what Islam is about? Thanks, I really needed your insight to understand my religion.

Im here to help.

quote:Originally posted by Chinese Food52:

When Islam was first spreading, there was an elderly lady who always use to insult the Prophet as he walked by her house everday. She would do things such as swear at him, even got to the point of throwing stones at him. Then one day, she wasn't outside when he walked by. Then again, the next day she wasn't outside, and the next and the next. So finally the Prophet went to her house to see if she was okay.

Iv read that story but I believe it has a different ending. I will have to look it up.

quote:Originally posted by Chinese Food52:

Here's a surah called Al-Kafiroon (The Non-Believers)

<nonsence deleted>



Yeah I'v read that stupidity before. You'd think that with surahs like #9 muslims would have real problems correctly intrepreting islam, but no. Surah 2:106 takes care of the contradictions:

Quran 2:106:Whatever communications We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or like it. Do you not know that Allah has power over all things?

Now with the knowledge that older verses get "abrogated" by newer contradicting verses lets take a quick review of the last surah revealed:

9:001:(This is a declaration of) immunity by Allah and His Messenger towards those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement.

Oh thats nice. It starts off by breaking the treaty with mecca. How convinient.

9:002:So go about in the land for four months and know that you cannot weaken Allah and that Allah will bring disgrace to the unbelievers.

9:003:And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters; therefore if you repent, it will be better for you, and if you turn back, then know that you will not weaken Allah; and announce painful punishment to those who disbelieve.

9:004:Except those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement, then they have not failed you in anything and have not backed up any one against you, so fulfill their agreement to the end of their term; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty).



Below is the celebrated "verse of the sword"

9:005:So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

And it goes on and on about killing...

Religion of peace my ass.



quote:Originally posted by Chinese Food52:

Of course, everything the West doesn't agree with must be Backwards!

We are on the cutting edge so your argument does have some truth to it.

quote:Originally posted by Chinese Food52:

This is what's wrong with Public schools these days.

No whats wrong with schools these days is they are teaching this dhimmified, watered-down, PC, fake version of islam to non-islamic students. This politically correct crap is whats wrong with the entire west.

quote:Originally posted by Chinese Food52:Haha, 5 more minutes and he'd be screaming? Even the Radio DJ was beginning to realise that Craig Winn was sounding like a dumbass.

That seems to be the ear of the beholder, and typical islamo style thinking. Because Winn didn't corner the imam he "lost." Because Israel didn't wipe out hezbolla they "lost." Because Iraqis are slaughtering each other the US is "loosing."

You can smell the raising tension in the imam's voice as they get to the end of the argument. (You can almost smell the sweat coming off his body) Does Craig Winn's voice change? Nope.

quote:Originally posted by Chinese Food52:And Cat Stevens(Yusuf Islam) is the shit!

Cat Stevens is a mo-bot. Like I said he believes Salman Rushdie should be killed for writing an anti-islamic doccumentary. Mo-bot.

quote:Originally posted by Chinese Food52:

Oh yeah! Let's have a fight on converts! Yeah, lets post Youtube videos that counter each other!

Yeah we wont go there...

quote:Originally posted by Chinese Food52:

Haha, you're a tool, and hardly worth my time.

Apparently I am worth your time or you wouldn't have invested so much of it in your last post. Nice try though.

I got a question though? Why do my anti-islamic rants bother you so much? Does the truth scare you?

[This message has been edited by CrazyJ32 (edited 01-12-2007).]

well yes. women are beaten for not wearing burqas/hijabs, but know that the family there are conservatives. there are muslims i know that do not wear headscarfs. there are muslims that drink (even though it is considered frobidden).

so in conclusion, be a sunni. dont be a shitie, i mean shiite muslim

Oh you dont have to be a shiit to beat a woman for not wearing the hijab. Look at saudi, pakistan, and afganistan, all sunni dominated countries. Also refer to the recent statement by a prominent saudi cleric calling for the beating of un-hijabbed women. Don't fool yourself.

Religion promotes idiocy.

No idiots and islam promote idiocity.

quote:Originally posted by isTHATso:

I find it intresting that Half of Totse Hates Muslims and doesn't know how to do some research, And the other half actually have a brain between their ears.

If you think Islam is such a radical religion that kills everyone who is not Islam, Then try doing some research. You can find anything you want about any religion. Search the internet, Order a free Quran. Read up on it. Then come back here and Rethink your previous posts.

It seems like:

1. You had already made up your mind to become a Muslim, which in that case, I want to know why you even started this thread and asked if you should become a Muslim. Was it for publicity?

2. You are a Muslim trying to promote your "peaceful" religion.

Some people here have already given you information that proves that Islam is not a religion of God, or at least it's not a peaceful, true religion. But you are not interested in those facts, you would rather argue that Islam is peaceful and that we hate Muslims, which is a lie. Some may have said something deragotary about Muslims, but isn't it funny how you bundled us all together? Perhaps you should follow Islam, it will suit you well.

And BTW, it seems like you are the one who needs to research Islam, because I did my own research and found out:

1. Mohammed had sex with a 9 year old girl when he was 53 or 54.

2. Mohammed had people tortured on at least two occasions...one guy got tortured to death because he wouldn't tell Mohammed and his gang where he hid his tribe's money.

3. Mohammed assassinated people/poets/intellectuals who disagreed with him.

5. Mohammed was OK with lying. He allowed a few members of his gang to lie in order to get close to a certain person and assassinate him...apparently that guy didn't like Mohammed.

6. Mohammed enslaved women/children.

7. Mohammed sold women into slavery.

Feel free to do your own research about "Islam" (not Muslims, OK?) and if you are too lazy to do that, let me know and I'll post references to the above information. And so that you won't play the worn-out card of "those are what Muslim's (vs. Islam, OK?) critics say", let me assure you that all of the above are from the Muslim's own books and nothing has been exaggerated, left out, or otherwise changed in any shape, way, or form.

CrazyJ32, thanks for those links, very informative!

*Sigh*

I leave this thread for one day and look what happens... A bunch of people who learn off the news take it over.

The stuff about the women being beaten for not wearing their hijab, BullShit! I know many Islams and the women almost never wear their Hijab. They are required to wear it during "salaat" (Prayer).

And all the stuff about Mohommad doing wll those things.. So what!? What if he did, Most people might have done those things but not told anyone...

Is there actually any Muslims on here?

quote:Originally posted by isTHATso:

*Sigh*

I leave this thread for one day and look what happens... A bunch of people who learn off the news take it over.

The stuff about the women being beaten for not wearing their hijab, BullShit! I know many Islams and the women almost never wear their Hijab. They are required to wear it during "salaat" (Prayer).

And all the stuff about Mohommad doing wll those things.. So what!? What if he did, Most people might have done those things but not told anyone...

Is there actually any Muslims on here?

You want to follow Muslims or Islam? Just because some Muslims you know don't force their women to wear the hijab, then it doesn't mean that Islam doesn't require women to wear hijab. As a matter of fact, Mohammed has said that all women should cover themsleves from head to toe, other than their eyes and their hands. And as far as beating women goes, look at the verse 4:34 in the Koran, it says that a man can beat his wife only based on a "suspicion". Here's the relevant part of that verse, note that "(lightly)" was added by the translator who felt embarassed by this verse:

"As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly);"

As far as your second point about Mohammed doing a bunch of evil stuff...I really couldn't understand what you are trying to say. Are you saying that it is OK for a messenger of God to lie, to torture people for money, to assassinate people who disagree with him, etc.?



[This message has been edited by crazime (edited 01-09-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by isTHATso:



Is there actually any Muslims on here?

Yep.



And, I've decided it's not worth arguing over Islam with you guys. I know my religion. I know what I'm following. I know what morals I'm standing by.

The only reason I even decided to post in this thread was to help the isThatso.

And, I highly suggest you watch the videos I posted above isTHATso.

That's all.

I too am Islamic.

[This message has been edited by blackarmchair (edited 01-09-2007).]

quote:I leave this thread for one day and look what happens... A bunch of people who learn off the news take it over.

Im sorry to tell you this, sir, but I dont learn about islam "off the news." I learn from islam by reading islamic literatire and several books, two written by an apostate whom memorized the quran by 12, got a doctorate in islamic theology from al-ahzar university (only the most prestigous islamic sunni university) and went on to teach theology and become an imam at a large mosque.

I have intellectual debates with muslims all the time via the web. I have heard every single lame excuse, falsification, and "justification" regaurding the prophet's actions and deeds and none of it impresses me. The more I listen to these people the more disgusted I become with islam.

Dont assume for a second Im some sort of laymen or something. I know my shit.

quote:The stuff about the women being beaten for not wearing their hijab, BullShit! I know many Islams and the women almost never wear their Hijab. They are required to wear it during "salaat" (Prayer).

You know what? You are right about that. Muhammad (himself) never beat nor had his wives beaten for not covering up. But he made verses allowing their husband/father to beat them for not doing so. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if there's a hadith out there indicating one of his head-honchos did.

quote:And all the stuff about Mohommad doing wll those things.. So what!?

So what? Think about it. Why would an all-powerful, all-knowing god allow or need his "last prophet" to do things that make normal people real in disgust?

Why would "god" refer to himself as "the greatest deciever"? Why would god say things like "people are nothing more than faggots for the fires of hell?" What kind of "god" would "reveal" surahs to a prophet for the sole purpose of making it easier to please his cock?

You dont think that muhammad was lying do you?

Remember: According to muhammad apostates should be killed, so be absolutely certain this is for you before you say the shahada.

quote:What if he did, Most people might have done those things but not told anyone...

This is supposedly a prophet of god not "Most people..."

And besides most people wouldn't commit muhammad's mindless atrocities in their wildest dreams. I sure as hell wouldn't order the slaughter of 800 jews whom hadn't done anything against me, would you?

Think for yourself, dont let your muslim "friends" think for you. What muhammad did was plain wrong and you should know it.



[This message has been edited by CrazyJ32 (edited 01-09-2007).]

Oh yeah speaking of utube videos... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQu9lbqBDgw

P.S. your welcome crazime.

It's about how one follows the religion, now about what's written in the book. Sure mohammed might have done terrible things, but so did the Judaiochristian god. Most muslims, most christians, most jews and most atheists alike are good people who try to make this world a better place.

Yes that is true. Most people, regairdless of belief system born-in to, are good people. The thing here is that certain beliefs systems tend to make people do bad things. Like nazism, communism, islam, KKK, etc.

I bet if you tried hard enough you could find a KKK member that is a good person. Or a nazi. Or a muslim. This does not make these "isms" good, does it?

Nor does it make them correct.

(Oh and christianity is a peaceful, humble "ism")

By the way islam converts are statisticly more likely to become terrorists. There has been a recent rash of new-muslims getting involed in jihadist activities.

quote:Originally posted by CrazyJ32:

Yes that is true. Most people, regairdless of belief system born-in to, are good people. The thing here is that certain beliefs systems tend to make people do bad things. Like nazism, communism, islam, KKK, etc.

I bet if you tried hard enough you could find a KKK member that is a good person. Or a nazi. Or a muslim. This does not make these "isms" good, does it?

Nor does it make them correct.

(Oh and christianity is a peaceful, humble "ism")

By the way islam converts are statisticly more likely to become terrorists. There has been a recent rash of new-muslims getting involed in jihadist activities.

That's generalizing. Nazism (Nationalist Socialism) is a very beneficial economic system when used as defined. It has NOTHING to do with Hitler. Just because his party claimed to be Nazi doesnt mean they were. Remember, hitler said he was Christian.

Communism is verbatim teachings of jesus minus god. Evil?

KKK is about pride in ones race. One can be in the KKK without having the slightest disdain for other races. It's like patriotism except with race.

Islam is about having humility and morals and respecting oneself and limiting ones desires and passion to try to become a better person. Same goes for Christianity.

If applied properly, none of these systems are evil at all. It's the application that makes the difference

Your joking right?

quote:Originally posted by Lamabot:

That's generalizing. Nazism (Nationalist Socialism) is a very beneficial economic system when used as defined. It has NOTHING to do with Hitler.

It was invented by hitler. Nazism was a form of socialism. It has everything to do with hitler.

Islam also is a form of socialism.

quote:Just because his party claimed to be Nazi doesnt mean they were. Remember, hitler said he was Christian.

Remember: Hitler ousted dozens of priests who did not agree with his final solution.

quote:Communism is verbatim teachings of jesus minus god. Evil?

No such thing. Jesus never taught how to make a government. Jesus said to "Obey the laws of the land." Jesus wasn't political

quote:KKK is about pride in ones race. One can be in the KKK without having the slightest disdain for other races. It's like patriotism except with race.

LOL dude. KKK is bigotry and pride in the white race.

Where in the KKK charter has it ever said anyone can jion as long as they have pride in their race.

Your making me laugh.

quote:Islam is about having humility and morals and respecting oneself and limiting ones desires and passion to try to become a better person.

OK you just shot yourself in the foot. Anyone with even a vague understanding of islam wouldn't make such a hugggge falacy.



Islam pretends to be about these nice things. In reality these "nice" things exist only to succer people into jioning the cult, they get changed by later verses.

Islam is one of those end justifies the means ism's. Islam does not care about individuals, their freedoms or rights. Islam wants to take over the whole world, it says so in it's "charter."

quote:If applied properly, none of these systems are evil at all. It's the application that makes the difference[/B]

ha ha ha ha. Either these systems have never been applied properly or they are just psychotic. Take communism for example, nearly every country under the thumb of communism suffered a bloodbath of civilians.

We wont even talk about islam being applied properly. It apparently never has either; Some islamic countries have quality standards of living but these countries do not follow all the rules of muhammad as stated clearly in the hadith nor quran. For example malaysia is democratic, something muhammad never made provisions for.

Dont give me this all ism's are fine and dandy crap. Some are but many others are not.

I've been on a Totse Sabbatical, and wondered what happened to the original poster boy for Islam, Abrahim?

That guy could type like a man possessed. Did he change screen names?

LOL, CrazyJ all your posts... QUOTED FOR MOTHAFUCKIN TRUTH! Islam IS sick, by the way "isTHATso" or w/e who wants to convert to Islam, u kno you will have to get circumsized? Meaning having half your prick cut off? Plus, I don't need to watch the news to know how fucked up Islam is, SWIM has been to all regions of Turkey/Saudi Arabia/Iraq and more and MOST if not all of them are fuxored to the max, it may not be the sickest religion but it's on the border.

Btw, someone sent me this: Islam / Not one of you truly believes until you wish for others what you wish for yourself. The Prophet Muhammad, 13th of the 40 Hadiths of Nawawi

(S)he claimed that all religions including Islam have this "golden rule" that's supposed to mean treat others the way you wanna be treated. If taht's so then DAAAAAMN cuz if raping women/beating your wife is treating others the way you wanna be -- wait, in their view: women aren't people right? They just pussy on legs. This makes me sick.

quote:Originally posted by Chinese Food52:

Oh yeah! Let's have a fight on converts! Yeah, lets post Youtube videos that counter each other! http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

Haha, you're a tool, and hardly worth my time.

quote:Originally posted by Dr.Speed17:

Did I mention that I fuck little children? Yeah, sure, who cares if everyone says I'm a sick fuck, I just do what I please. :/ LOL IMA BIG FAG

I LOVE BABIES

Fixed.

Racism is ignorant. This kid just proves my point that you shouldn't listen to what people have to say. Most of them are too ignorant to form complete sentences, let alone bring ideas and beliefs to mind.

[This message has been edited by turkeysandwich (edited 01-10-2007).]

I don't usually post here, but I just felt like posting in this thread. OP, don't listen to the shit-eaters who are piling on you for choosing a religion you thought was compatible. Most of them are fucking kidiots who think not going to church makes them badass or some pathetic shit like that.

The point is, do whatever the hell you want. Islam has done just as much shitty stuff as Christianity and Judaism so don't be fucked over by the faggots in this thread listing some verses in the Quran which were probably mistranslated to begin.

quote:Originally posted by turkeysandwich:

Racism is ignorant.

Implying a religion is a race is ignorant.

quote:]Originally posted by turkeysandwich:

This kid just proves my point that you shouldn't listen to what people have to say.

I implore you, indeed anyone here lacking in knowledge, to read the quran, hadith, and the "life of the prophet of alla" (aka sirat rasul alla)

This isn't your standard, run of the mill bible-school stories about jesus fishing or walking on water or any of this crap.

This is a "religion (More like a cult) that is designed to take over the world using any means possible, ie terrorism, deception (google taqiyya, wikipedia has an article about it) murder, kidnapping, and back-stabbing. Their "scriptures" proudly recall how their "prophet" clawed his way to the top using the most despicable tactics imaginable. Their "scriptures" recount how muhammad engaged in every act of debauchery, depravity, and inhumanity imagineable. This "religion" is little more than nazism sanctified.

And if you look at history you will see that this "terrorism" has been going on for 1400 years, ravanging the world like no other movement before or after it. It has been in motion ever since the battle of badr.

There. Thats fixed.

CrazyJ32 to all those who are fortunate enough to possess a working brain that is able to think in a logical manner you clearly have shown that calling Islam a “peaceful religion” is complete total absurdity.

Of course the defenders of Islam will conveniently ignore what is in their Quran and call you liar even when you clearly show them what is actually written in their so called “holy” book. Or they will say you are taking quotes out of context. Still the real message of the Quran manages to come through loud and clear when it tells you at ad nauseam that you “must” submit, obey, and fear Allah then go out and convert or kill all nonbelievers.

So here then is my challenge to all those that say Islam is a “religion of peace”. Please tell us EXACTLY which chapters and verses of the Quran tell the Muslim that it is “OK” for someone to be a Jew or other nonbeliever and that Muslims must respect and live peacefully with all other religions. These should be verses that have "not" been declared out of date and replaced by newer ones.

quote:Originally posted by CrazyJ32:

I implore you, indeed anyone here lacking in knowledge, to read the quran, hadith, and the "life of the prophet of alla" (aka sirat rasul alla)

This isn't your standard, run of the mill bible-school stories about jesus fishing or walking on water or any of this crap.

This is a "religion (More like a cult) that is designed to take over the world using any means possible, ie terrorism, deception (google taqiyya, wikipedia has an article about it) murder, kidnapping, and back-stabbing. Their "scriptures" proudly recall how their "prophet" clawed his way to the top using the most despicable tactics imaginable. Their "scriptures" recount how muhammad engaged in every act of debauchery, depravity, and inhumanity imagineable. This "religion" is little more than nazism sanctified.

And if you look at history you will see that this "terrorism" has been going on for 1400 years, ravanging the world like no other movement before or after it. It has been in motion ever since the battle of badr.

There. Thats fixed.

I'm not here saying that I accept the religion he chooses. In fact I don't care what he chooses, all I think is that if he's happy, then follow it. I don't care if it follows terrorism or not, I have friends who are Muslim, devout to the bone, who don't want to rape and pillage and blow the fuck out of things and people that don't follow their specific beliefs. I'll admit that the first thing that comes to my mind, when I think of Muslims is: "Them's crazy mother fuckers." It's the first thing that comes to most people. And it's a stereotype. It's not even a stereotype, I'm wrong their, it's true most of the time. But not all of the time .

I've read parts of the Quran (what I could find in English) and "The Life of the Prophet of Allah." And I'm fully aware that they're not "run of the mill bible-school stories" that you say they're not. But the Bible has been published by people who will change it to make they're religion look better. I'm not saying major changes (Exception: The book of Job has been taken out of some bibles I see.)

Ok, the prophet did bad things. So what. Jesus fucked hookers. I'm not sure what you think, but that's pretty wrong in my eyes. And I'm sure you'll come up with some flame calling me gay or whatnot just to make yourself look better. Look at Moses, he inacted ten curses upon Egyptians because of opression over the Jews. Oppresion over religious deifferences. You could chalk up Muhammad's crimes for the same reason.

So once again, I don't care what he chooses, and I'm not here to defend anyones religion, but the fact that someone comes on here, and then starts calling people baby fuckers, because they might not absolutely hate the Islamic religion, is stupid.

[This message has been edited by turkeysandwich (edited 01-10-2007).]

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>

<LI>Learn proper spelling and grammar.

<LI>Learn the difference between Islam (religion) and Muslim (follower of Islam).

<LI>Get circumsized if you're not (not a 100% requirement).

<LI>Look through the Qur'an.

<LI>Talk to a local Imam.

<LI>Look into different Muslim sects and which you want to join (Shia? Sunni? Allawi? Wahhabbi? Sufi? Hashishnani?).

<LI>Say: "Ash-hadu alla ilaaha illallah, Wa ash-hadu anna Muhammad-ar-rasool ullaah" ("I bear witness and attest that there is no god worthy of worship but the One God Allah, I bear witness and attest that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah").

</UL>

[This message has been edited by Encrypted Soldier (edited 01-11-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by isTHATso:

Ok Before I tell you this little tid bit thing. I'm gonna tell you about me which could change your perspective.

I'm 16yrs old, I've been prodestant my whole life, Never went to church really except when I was little. Lately I've been researching a bunch of religions. I found that I think I want to convert to Islam.

I ordered a copy of the Quran, I know this kid from school, He has been islam his whole life. So I atleast know someone who has this religion.

I'm just scared of what people and society will think. Now I'm american, I live about an hour from Washington D.C. I don't want half the country to point fingures at me saying i'm a terrorist. My mom doesn't care if I convert or not.

I also want any suggestions about converting to Islam.

Thanks Any feedback is appreciated



do it man, don't worry about what any one else thinks, just do what you think is right.

SWIM decided to provide a few points to this thread, to further prove that Islam is nothing but a fuckup that fucksup every person/nation they come in contact with:

"The Ottoman Empire that has invaded almost half of Europe and has established dictatorship, forcing them to convert to Islam kidnapping/raping children/women and all kinds of shit, in the following countries:

Albania

Bulgaria

Bosnia and Herzegovina

Croatia

Greece

Serbia

Montenegro

Romania (unsuccessful but still considerable damage)

Spain (crusaders from Morocco)

Now, get this: every European country has 1-2% of its population illiterate, EXCEPT for each of the countries listed above that was infested by Muslims for 400 years, Spain, Bosnia, Serbia, Greece, Albania all have about 10-15% illiteracy rate. What does it tell you? MUSLIMS ARE A FUCKING DISEASE THAT SHOULD BE JUST INCINERATED WITHOUT QUESTION. Bush did a right thing killing those fuckers in Iraq. Also, I am born in one of those countries on the list, and I've had my ancestors killed/persecuted by them turkish motherfuckers.

On behalf of all those nations I say FUCK YOU to Muslims and your fucking pathetic religion. DIE!"

WWWWWWWWOOOOOOOOOO!!! Listen to what i have to say seriously although i do not approve because im a Christian but i cant stop you from doing what you want. So do two things, think very carefuly about it and study a little of both Christianity and Islam then make a decision. And if you choose to be a muslim then i strongly suggest becom a kurd. esspecially if you dont want to be called a terrorist. Sunnies alot of people believe are not extreamist but the oppisite is true they just arnt in the same group as the Shi'te they are more on Irans way of thinking. and keep in mind that tensions are heating up between the U.S. and Iran or more the World and Iran. So all i can say is good luck and i hope you dont convert(but if you do be a kurd)

What the fuck you faggot? Why the hell would you want to be a fucking Muslim? You're a worthless piece of shit and a traitor to our country.

Die

I say don't convert. Yet. Research it. People have listed examples of violence in the Koran, but I can only imagine that for every one of these in there, there's probably 10 in the Bible.

quote:Originally posted by numblock:

What the fuck you faggot? Why the hell would you want to be a fucking Muslim? You're a worthless piece of shit and a traitor to our country.

Die

Uhh, get off my internets, and please stop playing your skrewdriver album so loud, your neighbors are getting upset.

Edit: Grammar.

[This message has been edited by bong hits FTW (edited 01-11-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by isTHATso:



I also want any suggestions about converting to Islam.

Thanks Any feedback is appreciated

Convert to islam****************************

Be able to say the following......

BALELELELELELELEELLACHAMABUALALALAÜLELELELELELEeee e!!

While burning a turban made of the american flag......

Wasting munitions by shooting wildly into the air.....

Anything I left out guys?

Gods what a disgusting thread.

I don't approve of converting to Islam, not because of anything inherently wrong with Islam but because I believe religion is a waste of time. However there's nothing fundamentally wrong with converting to Islam, in my opinion it's no better or worse then any of the other major religions so go ahead knock yourself out.

Hopefully though in the future logic will lead you to the same ratonal conclusions regarding religion it led me to.

Either way though good luck in life and may your journey through it be fruitful and lacking unnecesary conflict.

Someone should move this thread to Bad Ideas.

quote:Originally posted by FunkyZombie:

Gods what a disgusting thread.

I don't approve of converting to Islam, not because of anything inherently wrong with Islam but because I believe religion is a waste of time. However there's nothing fundamentally wrong with converting to Islam, in my opinion it's no better or worse then any of the other major religions so go ahead knock yourself out.

Hopefully though in the future logic will lead you to the same ratonal conclusions regarding religion it led me to.

Either way though good luck in life and may your journey through it be fruitful and lacking unnecesary conflict.

I can't say I disagree. All religions are sick one way or another (except for Christian Orthodox) but Islam I say is the sickest.

Why would you want to convert to the religion of filthy sand niggers? Islam is even more of a fraud then christianity.

quote:Originally posted by turkeysandwich:

Ok, the prophet did bad things. So what. Jesus fucked hookers. I'm not sure what you think, but that's pretty wrong in my eyes.

I agree it is pretty wrong but untrue im afraid. The only evidence that may exist for this is in the gnostic gospels which are easily dismissed as they were written some 200 years after his death.

Also note that Josephus, a jew, lived in jesus' time and wrote about him. Infact a lot of jews knew him and hated him because they believed he was blaspemous.

These jews also believed the "son of god" would not have sex and never mention any rumor of such.

Not trying to defend jesus (although I like his principles) just trying to defend history.

Agnostic here btw.

quote:Originally posted by turkeysandwich:

And I'm sure you'll come up with some flame calling me gay or whatnot just to make yourself look better.

LOL dude. Your first post may have given me a bad impression of you but your not that bad. Also, I dont give a fuck (excues the pun) what you do with yourself/friends in private. Gays may be anoying sometimes but do not intend to kill me, no problem here. Same goes for arabs, jews, blacks, whites, asians, etc.

quote:Originally posted by turkeysandwich:

Look at Moses, he inacted ten curses upon Egyptians because of opression over the Jews. Oppresion over religious deifferences. You could chalk up Muhammad's crimes for the same reason.

Thats a flase analogy comparing something done by "god" to something obviously done by man. There is no comparison here.

quote:Originally posted by turkeysandwich:

the fact that someone comes on here, and then starts calling people baby fuckers, because they might not absolutely hate the Islamic religion, is stupid.

Yes it is. I think I understand your reaction now.

[This message has been edited by CrazyJ32 (edited 01-11-2007).]

Wowwww all you people with your insults like "sand niggers" and what not seem like your reallllly concerned about isTHATso.

Do you honestly think this kind of rhetorich is going to change his/her mind?

If you dont have anything intelligent to say please dont say anything at all. Your making me look bad no offence.

[This message has been edited by CrazyJ32 (edited 01-11-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by bong hits FTW:

I say don't convert. Yet. Research it. People have listed examples of violence in the Koran, but I can only imagine that for every one of these in there, there's probably 10 in the Bible.

Yeah there's a lot of violence mentioned in the bible.

I say mentioned because it is presented in historical context as in the jews did this to so and so at such a time.

Not the case in the quran. Instead the quran is full of commands to continue doing such things. It commands muslims to show no mercy, etc. etc, until the world subdues. The quran and hadith are an affront to mankind and a totalitarian manifesto to take over the world at all costs, using all tactics.

Big difference.



[This message has been edited by CrazyJ32 (edited 01-11-2007).]

If you haven't read al-Quran in Arabic, then don't bother to cite it http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Tis not the first tima a muslim has tried that one on me. Dont try and fool me that its not the same meaning in arabic. Iv already defeated that one using logic a 5th grader can understand.

And just incase your referring to its poetry do you honestly think that just because it rhymes means its from god?

I know apostates that love the sound of the quran in arabic despite their dislike of islam.

This doesnt make me think "divine." It makes me think dangerous. In the same way a talented musician can lure people into dangerous things like un-abated sex, drugs, violence, satanism, etc. poetry can be used in the same way. Just because the quran in arabic is hypnotic doesnt indicate you should follow it, on the contrary, it should give you pause and make you wary of it.



[This message has been edited by CrazyJ32 (edited 01-11-2007).]

Crazy, you have won the match.

&lt;/Unreal Tournament Voice&gt;

[This message has been edited by StrikeCobra (edited 01-11-2007).]

OK, I know Islam, I've spent time with muslims so I know what I'm talking about.

I'll tell you some of the stuff you gotta do to convert:

1: No chicks: You can't have hot chicks anymore. Only those rimpled things under layers of cloth. You never know what you get.

2: Sheep: You need to fuck a sheep to prove you are as worthy as Muhammed.

3: A beard: You absolutely MUST grow a big curly black beard.

4: Jihad: When allah is pissed off again, you need to go jihading agianst your fellow americans.

5: Bombz: To be a good muslim you MUST know L33T Bomb3r skillz. So you can blow up good democratic people, like children in schools or large business offices.

6: You must leave the US: Bush does'nt want you here. I don' t want you here. TOTSE does'nt want you here, infact its the only thing people still agree upon with Bush these days: We don't want you here.

7: Rape: For your initiation you need to rape and then sacrifice a young white virgin to teh blood god Baal Hammon......aka Allah.

But if you complete that, you're pretty much in. success m8

In Islam, simply thinking about god counts as praying. giving alms to the poor includes giving a bum some booze money(though there is percentge of your...

Why the FUCK am I posting this.

OP do what you want.

Everyone else, (including those defending Islam): Try learning about Islam before posting, I know some of you have good intentions but the evidence your defending Islam with is not...

Why the fuck did I post THAT

I don't care what any of you think.

I'm leaving Totse

quote:Originally posted by turkeysandwich:

So what. Jesus fucked hookers. I'm not sure what you think, but that's pretty wrong in my eyes.

You find me any verse in the Bible that says that and I might actually believe you. Considering historically and prophetically the Bible is the most truthful of the 3 main "holy" books.

And anybody who read it with an unbiased view would acknowledge that.

[This message has been edited by Aussiebobba (edited 01-11-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by Aussiebobba:

You find me any verse in the Bible that says that and I might actually believe you. Considering historically and prophetically the Bible is the most truthful of the 3 main "holy" books.

And anybody who read it with an unbiased view would acknowledge that.



Ok.



And to crazyJ32. You get my point, I don't want to claim to know all about religion, I only post here because I like knowing what other people think. I just think it's stupid to come to a forum about religion, and shout of stupid insults, with no particular basis in fact.

And I will admit, Jesus probably didn't have sex with any hookers. That story was probably just whipped up to cause controversy.

Sorry, I tried to hold myself back, but this thread is ridiclious.

In addition to my previous post: SWIM has missed a few other countries and the 400-year infestation caused more than just illiteracy today, but it's a start.

Chinese Food, why is this thread ridiculous? Because it implicates Islam and your prophet Mohammed? I bet you would not say that if this thread was all praise of Mohammed, ha?

Aparently chinesefood is the only one who thinks this thread is rediculous.

Why? What is so rediculous about an honest and open discussion of the unsavory things muhammad did? Did I use bad language? Did I throw pointless insults at you or anyone else?

Or are you just too afraid to consider these things?

Honestly I want you to try and figure out why god would reveal "verses" to his perfect example for all, the proverbial "mercy to mankind" to help him get away with an affair he had behind his wives' backs. Just think about it for a moment. Doesnt this all seem a bit rediculous? Doesnt this seem atleast a little fishy?

Also, why would god's "perfect example" do things like pedophilia, mass-murder, covet his sons wife, break his own rules (such as having more than 4 wives), have people tortured, etc.

Why would god need people to slaughter infidels in his name? Why would god need people to "fight for the cause of alla"?

What makes you so sure this isn't just one big hoax? What makes you so sure muhammad didn't just make all this up to fufill his earthly desires and get revenge on his uncle? Even better, what makes you so sure "alla" isn't really satan in disguise? (rhetoricly speaking, Im not religious but were I, id say satan pulled off one hell of a scam with islam)



[This message has been edited by CrazyJ32 (edited 01-12-2007).]

If god can wipe out an entire population because of the way their (unelected and thus probably hated) leader acted this can be attributed to god's plan. But NO WAY CAN MOHHAMMED DO DIRTY STUFF. Give me a break, both religions are full of violence, hate, bigotry, oppression, racism, sexism etc...

quote:Originally posted by Lamabot:

Give me a break, both religions are full of violence, hate, bigotry, oppression, racism, sexism etc...

That is your opinion but if you actually read the texts you will see that the bible doesnt command the kind of things the quran and hadith do. Sure, the bible is arguably filled with sexism & bigotry, but not racism, hate, nor mandated opression.

The quran actually mandates opression against infidels. I can show you the verse. Can you show me the biblical verse? Can you also show me where the bible commands believers to take over the world and/or wage war against all mankind? I can show you...

quote:Exodus 22:20

He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.

You're right the Bible doesn't mandate oppressing the infidel in the slightest.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

I love how you overlook the fact that every single act of violence in the Bible was done at either the command or with the express approval of God.

Yeah real peaceful folk them Abrahamites. Face it all your primitive religions are crap.

Grow up, move on, use your minds and save yourselves from religious nonsense.

quote:Originally posted by FunkyZombie:

Exodus 22:20

He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.

You're right the Bible doesn't mandate oppressing the infidel in the slightest.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

Thats still not a commandment. Does it say anywhere in the bible to actually kill these people? I know it does in the quran.



[This message has been edited by CrazyJ32 (edited 01-12-2007).]

Oh Zod what a semantics whore! Your right it doesn't say commandment in bog letters next to it. It's still a command from thhe fucking lord!

Fine that's not good enough for you.

quote:

Leviticus

20:9: For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.

20:10: And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

20:11: And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

20:12: And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood shall be upon them.

20:13: If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

20:14: And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.

20:15: And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.

20:16: And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.



Thats just a aample. Leviticus is full of laws like that.

Indeed scary laws but the verbiage used is shall. It sounds more like a prediction or prophecy than a death order. But who knows...

Either way Im not here do defend the OT rather Im here to expose islam and show why it is not a peaceful religion. The NT is an example of a peaceful doctrine, albiet its contrast to the OT.

Debating techniques 101. If you are on the losing side of a debate try changing the topic.

The topic here is Islam not Christianity, but yes we all know and [b]agree[b] that Christians did some rather unchristian like things in the past. However we also know that for the most part they have advanced beyond that stage and would no longer follow these rules like this verbatim or take them literally.

The problem with Islam is that most Muslims recite the Quran verbatim to justify their actions and do take every word literally.

That sounds more like an issue with the worshippers then the actual religion.

If we agree that Christianity and Judaism are both as inherently violent as Islam and that the reason they aren't any more is because the beliefs of their worshipers has matured then why exactly (other then bigotry) is Islam being held to standards the others are not? Surely if an Islamic worshiper takes a more moderate interpertation of the Koran he will be every bit as "benign" as Christians and Jews.

So what exactly is the issue?

By the way don't try to pull that "Debating 101" BS. This thread was not started as a debate on Islam but by a poster requesting information on converting. Some assholes started to flame him saying how Islam was an inherently bad religion. To refute this other posters brought up how other religions are inherently equally bad. So Christianity is fair game.

If anyone is trying to change the topic because they're losing the debate it's you.

Well spock that is almost true. But what you have omitted is the difference between the two founders of these religions.

Jesus

Fed the hungry

Healed the sick

Engaged in constructive activities like fishing

Treated women like human beings

Inspired friendship between enemies.

Taught that paradise is earned by forgivness

Muhammad

Stole from his enemies

Stole from innocent jews

Killed innocent jews

Killed innocent pagans

Had people tortured

Had and allowed rape

Treated women like dogs

Made war with everybody

and...

Inspired enmity between long time friends and family.

Taught that paradise is earned through slaughter.



And another thing Id like to add: Most of these christian atrocities pale in comparison to the cancerous spread of islam through bloodshed. Christianity has mainly been prosylitized by word of mouth. Islam has been forced down peoples throats by humiliation, opression, and fear.

And the crusades? The (concept of) the crusades was well within justification. Europe had every reason to go to the ME and help their friends escape the opressive thumb of islam. They just mucked it up and in many cases mis-identified the enemy, a tragic mistake commonly made by man.

Ahh Islam the religon of peace.



NOT

quote:Originally posted by CrazyJ32:

Well spock that is almost true. But what you have omitted is the difference between the two founders of these religions.

Jesus

Fed the hungry

Healed the sick

Engaged in constructive activities like fishing

Treated women like human beings

Inspired friendship between enemies.

Taught that paradise is earned by forgivness

Muhammad

Stole from his enemies

Stole from innocent jews

Killed innocent jews

Killed innocent pagans

Had people tortured

Had and allowed rape

Treated women like dogs

Made war with everybody

and...

Inspired enmity between long time friends and family.

Taught that paradise is earned through slaughter.



And another thing Id like to add: Most of these christian atrocities pale in comparison to the cancerous spread of islam through bloodshed. Christianity has mainly been prosylitized by word of mouth. Islam has been forced down peoples throats by humiliation, opression, and fear.

And the crusades? The (concept of) the crusades was well within justification. Europe had every reason to go to the ME and help their friends escape the opressive thumb of islam. They just mucked it up and in many cases mis-identified the enemy, a tragic mistake commonly made by man.

Nothing quite like an Ad Hominem attack to "prove" your point.

Moses was an admitted murderer.

Moses ordered the massacre of his own people when they attempted to change religions.

Moses committed relentless genocide in the pursuit of the establishment of the kingdom of Israel. He killed countless innocent unbelievers and stole their land, their livestock, and their wealth.

I suppose by your standards Judaism is also a horrible religion as well?

quote:Originally posted by FunkyZombie:

Nothing quite like an Ad Hominem attack to "prove" your point.

Its not ad hominem. Its a direct comparison.

quote:Originally posted by FunkyZombie:

Moses ordered the massacre of his own people when they attempted to change religions.

They were buring their children to death by sacrificing them to molech. This doesn't warrant death?

quote:Originally posted by FunkyZombie:

Moses committed relentless genocide in the pursuit of the establishment of the kingdom of Israel. He killed countless innocent unbelievers and stole their land, their livestock, and their wealth.

The people he killed were part of a psychotic molech child burning cult. Boo Hoo.

quote:Originally posted by FunkyZombie:

I suppose by your standards Judaism is also a horrible religion as well?

No. I would say judaism is an apathetic Religion. It however is not a declaration of war upon mankind. It is not a terrorist manifesto calling for world domination followed by immediate infidel subjugation.



[This message has been edited by CrazyJ32 (edited 01-13-2007).]

Wrong it is very much an Ad Hominem attack.

In order to critique the religion of Islam you are attacking the character of the man who founded it. That is the very definition of an Ad Hominem attack.

Secondly the Israelites were worshipping a Golden Calf not Moloch. You'd think that bible would have mentioned the fact that they were sacrificing their children and not just worshiping an idol. Since there is no mention of such sacrifice I think it's safe to assume that child sacrifice was not the cause for Moses massacre of 3000 adult males.

Finally with regards to your allegations that conveniently every tribe that Moses slaughtered belonged to a child sacrifice cult, I'd just like to point out that there is no archeological evidence supporting widespread child sacrifice in that region. Also that there is no evidence that Moloch was an individual god for that matter.

quote:It seemed to many commentators that this Cronus or Saturn must also be Moloch. However, disturbingly, nineteenth century and early twentieth century archaeology found almost no evidence of a god called something like Moloch or Molech. Rabbinical traditions about other gods mentioned in the Tanach appeared to be unreliable, just Jewish legends which raised reasonable doubt about what was said about Moloch. The descriptions of Moloch might be simply taken from accounts of the sacrifice to Cronus and from the tale of the Minotaur. No bull-headed Phoenician god was known. This did not hold back some from identifying Moloch with Milcom, with the Tyrian god Melqart, with Ba‘al Hammon to whom children were purportedly sacrificed, and with any other god called 'Lord' (Ba‘al) or (Bel). These various suggested equations combined with the popular solar theory hypotheses of the day generated a single theoretical sun god Baal, a modern meta-mythical being who was otherwise whatever the theorist wished him to be.



Since your refutations of my points have been in turn refuted, I must ask why Judaism is labeled a apathetic religion instead of a barbaric religion like Islam. After all they are both guilty of having the same cruel laws, of harboring an intolerant belief system, and foundation in the ravings of sociopaths.

Hmmm. It seems your right about there being no mention of child sacrifice. But they were indeed worshiping Malkalm, another name for molech.

What esle do I think? Who cares. This event cannot be intrepreted into a reason to kill people today. Perhaps Moses really was an evil man but judaism is not a totalitarian system.

Here are some direct commandments from the quran:

8.7: "Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: ‘Wipe the infidels out to the last'"

8.12: "Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: ‘I am with you. Give firmness to the Believers. I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes."

8.15: "Believers, when you meet unbelieving infidels in battle while you are marching for war, never turn your backs to them. If any turns his back on such a day, unless it be in a stratagem of war, a maneuver to rally his side, he draws on himself the wrath of Allah, and his abode is Hell, an evil refuge!"

8.39: "So, fight them till all opposition ends and the only religion is Islam."

8.57: "If you meet them in battle, inflict on them such a defeat as would be a lesson for those who come after them, that they may be warned."

8.58: "If you apprehend treachery from any group on the part of a people (with whom you have a treaty), retaliate by breaking off (relations) with them. The infidels should not think that they can bypass (the law or punishment of Allah). Surely they cannot get away." [Another translation reads:] "The unbelieving infidels should not think that they can bypass Islam; surely they cannot escape."

Oh thats nice. The above verse allows them to break a treaty.



8.59: "The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them. They are your enemy and Allah's enemy."

9.5:"When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, beleaguer them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."



Ishaq 204: "‘Men, do you know what you are pledging yourselves to in swearing allegiance to this man?' ‘Yes. In swearing allegiance to him we are pledging to wage war against all mankind.'"

Ishaq 471: "We are steadfast trusting Him. We have a Prophet by whom we will conquer all men."

And I still label Judaism an apathetic religion. I label Islam a totalitarian cult. What did muhammad do to deserve such a following? Nothing. Atleast Moses rescued them from Egypt.

Here check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-inob20I_Y0

This here is also interesting, undercover mosques.

http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_display.cfm?blog_id=4637

Bakhari v1b2n24 I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives an property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah.

To those who still think that Islam is a “religion of peace” then let me repeat the challenge that I made before.

Please tell us EXACTLY which chapters and verses of the Quran tell the Muslim that it is “OK” for someone to be a Jew or other nonbeliever and that Muslims must "respect" and live peacefully with all other religions. These should be verses that have not been declared out of date and replaced by newer ones.

Lol they dont exist. Muhammad died shortly after reciting surah 9, apropriatly the only surah that doesn't begin with "In the name of Alla, most gracious, most merciful."

FYI the surahs of the quran are not in chronological order. For some reason early muslims decided to order it from longest surah to shortest. Possibly because they werent sure exactly what order they were given in.



[This message has been edited by CrazyJ32 (edited 01-16-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by isTHATso:

Ok Before I tell you this little tid bit thing. I'm gonna tell you about me which could change your perspective.

I'm 16yrs old, I've been prodestant my whole life, Never went to church really except when I was little. Lately I've been researching a bunch of religions. I found that I think I want to convert to Islam.

I ordered a copy of the Quran, I know this kid from school, He has been islam his whole life. So I atleast know someone who has this religion.

I'm just scared of what people and society will think. Now I'm american, I live about an hour from Washington D.C. I don't want half the country to point fingures at me saying i'm a terrorist. My mom doesn't care if I convert or not.

I also want any suggestions about converting to Islam.

Thanks Any feedback is appreciated

Well isTHATso have you decided yet?

CrazyJ32 - Funny how you bitch about the gnostic gospel being written 200 years after Jesus, yet take hadith as the word of God himself. You seem to be versed enough to know the history of hadith and the corruptions that have taken place there in. The word "troll" springs to mind, as I have read you bitch on and on, yet you haven't mentioned this fact once.

OP - I would suggest reading the Quran cover to cover and understanding it before taking the plunge. Personally I suggest you hold off conversion for a little while longer, at least till you're in 20s

Spock - Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the converts, and the Christians; any of them who believe in GOD and believe in the Last Day, and lead a righteous life, have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve. (Quran 5:69]

quote:Originally posted by CrazyJ32:

Thats still not a commandment. Does it say anywhere in the bible to actually kill these people? I know it does in the quran.



Jihad is not one of the Five pillars of Islam. The Quran repeatedly states that you should only kill in self-defense or when you are forcibly prevented from practising your religion. I'm reading the Quran (it's giving me clarity in my life), and I can understand how people could misinterpret the text. It doesn't help that a major of the world's Arabs live in great poverty, (and with little education) under repressive regimes. Poverty will almost always lead to extremism.

I will not lash out at you, for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

quote:Originally posted by saze:

Spock - Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the converts, and the Christians; any of them who believe in GOD and believe in the Last Day, and lead a righteous life, have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve. (Quran 5:69]

Of course they would have nothing to fear if they believed in God. That is **(aka Allah)** But then believing in a god that Mohammad claimed only talked “to him” and demands that you submit, obey and fear him, plus you must fight in holy jihad in his name, well I think some might then find that it is hard to accept that Allah is a true loving, caring god.

quote:Originally posted by saze:

CrazyJ32 - Funny how you bitch about the gnostic gospel being written 200 years after Jesus, yet take hadith as the word of God himself.

First of all I didn't "bitch" about any gnostic gospels.

Second of all paul's books were written a few decades after christ. Josephus, a man who lived in almost the same time period proves this. All hadith were written at the same time. Look up "Ishaq" he diet 151 years after muhammad. There is also little evidence to suggest the quran was written immediately after muhammad. In fact there are accounts of dozen different korans existing before caliph utthman had them all burnt. Dont know when exactly, he was the 7th leader after muhammad. Regaurdless, virtually any muslim will agree that the hadiths are needed to intrepret most of the quran as much of it is gibberish without the context (time, place, & situation) of the hadith. This is not true of the gospels because they are written as historical (wether factual or not) accounts and already contain all the involved context.

Thirdly, like I give a shit what you think of me.



quote:Originally posted by saze:

You seem to be versed enough to know the history of hadith and the corruptions that have taken place there in.

On the first count yes. On the second count no. Not even muslim schollars can pinpoint hadith fact from fiction.

quote:Originally posted by saze:

The word "troll" springs to mind, as I have read you bitch on and on, yet you haven't mentioned this fact once.

hahahaha. Like I said, your opinions are meaningless to me. I have done my research on islam and will teach what iv learned to the few that will listen, regaurdless of insults.

quote:Originally posted by shitty wok:

Jihad is not one of the Five pillars of Islam.

It wasnt me that said that.

quote:Originally posted by shitty wok:The Quran repeatedly states that you should only kill in self-defense or when you are forcibly prevented from practising your religion. I'm reading the Quran (it's giving me clarity in my life), and I can understand how people could misinterpret the text.

Read surah 9 and tell me if it says anything about self defence. Also note this was the last one revealed. For proof of this a quick google search should get you an accurate chronological ordering of the quran.

quote:Originally posted by shitty wok:

It doesn't help that a major of the world's Arabs live in great poverty, (and with little education) under repressive regimes.

Repressive regimes founded on muhamma's teachings.

quote:Originally posted by shitty wok:

Poverty will almost always lead to extremism.

If that is true than please explain to me why mexico is not extreme.

quote:Originally posted by shitty wok:

I will not lash out at you, for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Its funny that the quran says that when in reality "alla" revels in torturing people in hell such as in 56, 67, 74, 70, etc.

Here is my personal favorite:

quote:Qur'an 4:55 "Sufficient for them is Hell and the Flaming Fire! Those [Jews] who disbelieve Our Revelations shall be cast into Hell. When their skin is burnt up and singed, We shall give them a new coat that they may go on tasting the agony of punishment."



[This message has been edited by CrazyJ32 (edited 01-24-2007).]

If that is true than please explain to me why mexico is not extreme.

^

^What about the gang violence and turmoil in Haiti, or reports of people having their earrings torn off by thieves in Central America? No connection between poverty and violence? Inner-cities in North America have massive amounts of crime/ violence. Remeber the white trucker who was beaten to death after the murderous LAPD officers avoided punishment? Now these don't compare to the horrendous attacks of terror committed by Islamists, but some examples do. The KKK was founded when the South was in economic shambles, (and they claim to have a Christian influence, just like the bombers of abortion clinics). The Catholic church opposed abolitionism in America, too. During rise of Hitler, Germans had to pay millions for bread. And what of the rise of Bolshevist and National Socialist followers in North America in the Depression. Anti-Semitism was rampant at that time as well. In 1935, when a reporter asked the Immigration Minister of Canada about how many Jews he would allow into the country, he responded, "None is too many". BTW, a lot of the Tyrannical states are following the teachings of the extremist Wahhabi. And if muslims have always hated non-Muslims well before the 20th century, how come India stayed Hindu in the time of Islamic expansionism? Yes, some of the texts in the Qur'an could easily incite violence. But read this lovely passage from the Bible: "For everyone that curseth his father or mother shall surely be put to death!-Leviticus 20:9". When Saffiyah, one of his wives, complained that she was taunted for her Jewish origins, he told her, "Say unto them, `my father is Aaron, and my uncle is Moses.'" I think the main problem with Islam is that it has grinded to a halt ever since the Crusades. Some of the teachings that were meant for 7th century Arabia have not changed since then. The concept of Ijtehad, (religious innovation), is now forgotten. And the voices of moderation in the Arab States? They can't speak out because of the volatile fanatics. There, I have compromised.

Yeah, ok, perhaps there is linkage to poverty and crime. But how do you explain saudi royals donating to terrorists? How do you explain the fact that bin laden is a wealthy millionare with a degree in engineering? Why is it that sooo many muslims go to college to learn about math, science, etc. yet come out more extreme than usual?

Dont you think 100 cars burnt to the ground each night in france is a little extreme compared to the occasional gun-shot in gary, IN? Or the massive car bombings or the 1100 cars they destroyed in one night last year? Or the 1500 from the year before?

London bombings.. Lets see the last time something of that magnitute {done to people the attackers didn't have a grudge on) was done by muslims. Then we have hate speahes in mosques, not about rival gangs, cops, or white people, but about all non muslims. Or about jews, christians, or homosexuals. Now why dont we see non-muslim blacks bad-mouthing homos? Or plotting to kill innocent people for reasons other than gang grudges? Explain.

Why dont poor white people go to church and rant about how cursed non-christians are? Why dont blacks do the same? FYI these muslims that do this do not balong to some "KKK" version of islam. They do not have "new" scripture, they have the same books they have always had, ever since they started conquering and invading all lands within their grasp. This isnt something that can be fixed by throwing money or sympathy at. Doing that is like feeding a pack of wild beasts.

For example Israel gave the palestinians money, free healthcare, food, and other donations, including land with a flowering irrigated garden in it. It was a masterpiece of engineering and you know what the palis did? Instead of making food with it they used the pipes for bombs and destroyed the once beautiful agriculture.

They used the land to stage rocket attacks.

The free health care? They tried to use an ambulance as a bomb delivering vehical.

The money? GUESS.

quote:Originally posted by shitty wok:And if muslims have always hated non-Muslims well before the 20th century, how come India stayed Hindu in the time of Islamic expansionism?

They kicked them out to pakistan which they stole in the first place. Now they try to steal kashmir. I also recall the muslims tortching an Indian train laden with womem and children because the hindus bulldozed a mosque. Iv also seen and heard many stories of these "peaceful" pakis storming out of the mosque to beat a random kafur to death. I have a picture of one with his face all bloody pleading for his life. The "peaceful" muslims are wearing white.

quote:Originally posted by shitty wok:

Yes, some of the texts in the Qur'an could easily incite violence.

No. Some texts mandate violence. Period.

quote:Originally posted by shitty wok:But read this lovely passage from the Bible: "For everyone that curseth his father or mother shall surely be put to death!-Leviticus 20:9".

First of all that applies to the jews, not the non-jews. Second of all it says shall not you shall. The quran says Kill, torture, decapitate, fight, without the "shall." Heh I know the above verse sounds bad but atleast the bible doesn't command torture or dismemberment. Now does it command conquest. Nor does it inspire hatred for a particular race nor non-believers.



quote:Originally posted by shitty wok:

When Saffiyah, one of his wives, complained that she was taunted for her Jewish origins, he told her, "Say unto them, `my father is Aaron, and my uncle is Moses.'"

Huh. Funny you should mention her, being booty from the battle of Khabar. If im not mistaken this is the wife that made a deal with muhammad not to ransack her village.

Speaking of the battle of Khabar:

quote:Surat Rasulalla p. 515:

Kinana al-Rabi, who had the custody of the treasure of Banu Nadir, was brought to the apostle who asked him about it. He denied that he knew where it was. A Jew came (Tabari says "was brought"), to the apostle and said that he had seen Kinana going round a certain ruin every morning early. When the apostle said to Kinana, "Do you know that if we find you have it I shall kill you?" He said "Yes". The apostle gave orders that the ruin was to be excavated and some of the treasure was found.

Ok. They found the treasure, a deal's a deal so they're gonna let him go, right?

quote:It continues...

When he asked him about the rest he refused to produce it, so the apostle gave orders to al-Zubayr Al-Awwam, "Torture him until you extract what he has."

Huh. Perhaps muhammad has a grudge on him and wants to get revenge?

quote:It gets worse...So he kindled a fire with flint and steel on his chest until he was nearly dead. Then the apostle delivered him to Muhammad b. Maslama and he struck off his head, in revenge for his brother Mahmud."

Who was killed in a battle they started

And this is the psychopath they admire.

Anyways, back to the topic of sufiya, you dont think the mohammadans were being mean to the poor jew because of mean things their prophet said about jews?

Also, isn't it funny that in islam pigs are dirty, hated creatures and jews are pigs yet they're good enough to sleep with muhammad?

Isn't that strange?

quote:Originally posted by shitty wok:

I think the main problem with Islam is that it has grinded to a halt ever since the Crusades.

Oh my god dude your gonna just let em all right in arn't you? This is the boogyman that for centuries the mention of made people shiver with terror.

BTW The conquest resumed shortly after the crusades. They made it to vienna, italy in 1683, and had most of spain before the crusades kicked them out. They have been europes persistant enemy and would-be conquerer until they finally broke 9-11-1683. Why did islam receed? I dont know perhaps they wasted all their recources in a war ordained by "god"? Now they have oil money and guess where it goes.

quote:Originally posted by shitty wok:

Some of the teachings that were meant for 7th century Arabia have not changed since then.

Funny how nobody thinks christianity needs to change its teachings. Its also funny how violence sprang straight from their religious founders mouth, straight up to the gates of byzantine and self-sacrifice came from jesus' mouth and remained in practice some 300 years after he died.

BTW the quran has specific verses condemning anybody who denies even one verse. This was recited during the "mean" years.

quote:Originally posted by shitty wok:

The concept of Ijtehad, (religious innovation), is now forgotten. And the voices of moderation in the Arab States?

Huh. Tell that to all the psychoe muslims on youtube and FFI.

quote:Originally posted by shitty wok:

They can't speak out because of the volatile fanatics. There, I have compromised.

Nor leave islam for that matter.



[This message has been edited by CrazyJ32 (edited 01-25-2007).]

Oops. Saffiyah wasn't the wife that made a deal with mo. She was Kinanah's wife!

Isnt that nice? Muhammad torture's her husband to death and then marries her.

quote:Tabari VIII:116 or Ishaq p. 511

“So Muhammad began seizing their herds and their property bit by bit. He conquered Khaybar home by home. The first stronghold defeated was Naim. Next was Qamus, the community of Abi Huqayq. The Messenger took some of its people captive, including Safiyah bt. Huyayy, the wife of Kinanah and her two cousins. The Prophet chose Safiyah for himself.”

I think the above proves muhammad was a rapist. FYI Saffiyah was but one of several of muhammads "wives" that got to see her family mutilated, tortured, raped, and enslaved. (Remember Sex is obligatory in islamic marriage)

Sorry about my mistake, its been a while since Iv read these.



[This message has been edited by CrazyJ32 (edited 01-26-2007).]

Heloooo isTHATso where are you?