If 'god' is all-powerful and all-knowing and perfect, then what significance are we to him? If I were god, I really wouldn't give a shit about such boring powerless people like us humans.

This perfect being made us to worship and glorify him.

Also, I take the "in His image" to mean that we are somehow all a part of God. That we make up a part of him/it. God is the Collective. By loving each other, we are loving ourselves, and, vicariously or directly, loving God.

Or maybe the entire cosmos is god and each negative person makes it a little more like hell.

Well personally I can't think of God as a physical thing. It's our consciousnesses that make Him up. Our bodies and everything physical.. all matter, I guess, are just a part of this plane, one that we'll be cut off from when we die, and are able to (re/)join the One.

A baby is rather boring and powerless--nevertheless, the parents love it. God is like a perfect parent. (I know, the analogy breaks down rather badly, but it seems appropriate.)

quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:

A baby is rather boring and powerless--nevertheless, the parents love it. God is like a perfect parent. (I know, the analogy breaks down rather badly, but it seems appropriate.)

If god is like a perfect parent, then why does he torture his 'naughty' children for an eternity? If a human father were to torture his children like that, he'd go straight to jail.

quote:Originally posted by Mutant Funk Drink:

If 'god' is all-powerful and all-knowing and perfect, then what significance are we to him? If I were god, I really wouldn't give a shit about such boring powerless people like us humans.

welcome to my beliefs. there may be some all-powerful dude up there, but i doubt he gives a shit about earth. were probably just like a science experiment gone horrible wrong, lol.

quote:Originally posted by Mutant Funk Drink:

If 'god' is all-powerful and all-knowing and perfect, then what significance are we to him? If I were god, I really wouldn't give a shit about such boring powerless people like us humans.

God cares about us because he created us, would you love your son and/or daughter?

Also god doesn't do much because if you do too much people want more, do too little people lose faith.

Your right.

Sort of.

God doesn't seem to give a shit. I mean he doesn't do anything. He doesn't come down and end all of our suffering or intervene with our world in any way for that matter.

But he does this because he's created the most perfect existence. An existence in which we rely on ourselves to get through challenges and problems that arise. If the world was perfect, there would be no point. In being challenged we truly appreciate life and existence.

The "suffering" you feel only applies to this existence as you know it. If the human spirit is eternal and lives forever, "suffering" in this world is meaningless. What if suffering is just the building up of the human spirit; pushing it ever closer to immortality and perfection?

[This message has been edited by purplekhanabooze (edited 01-11-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by I_am_god:

God cares about us because he created us, would you love your son and/or daughter?



If you were a god, omnipotent with infinite scope, what is human conciousness compared to that?

Perhaps, it is simmilar to the way we care for the blood cells in our veins. Part of us, but not holy or sacred.

^^ you'd happily lose a pint of blood in an operation to cure your cancer.



same way God could happily lose millions fighting a war to save man

quote:Originally posted by Mutant Funk Drink:

If god is like a perfect parent, then why does he torture his 'naughty' children for an eternity? If a human father were to torture his children like that, he'd go straight to jail.

You refer to Hell? No such place -- it is a myth.

If you need an authority better-known than I on the subject, how about Pope John Paul II--in 1999, he stated that Hell is not a physical location, but a state of mind we create for ourselves when we try to shut ourselves away from God.

But if there is no hell how are people supposed to scare nonbelievers into becoming christians?

quote:Originally posted by Mutant Funk Drink:

If god is like a perfect parent, then why does he torture his 'naughty' children for an eternity? If a human father were to torture his children like that, he'd go straight to jail.

Sommmmmmebody's got Christian blood.... http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Mutant Funk Drink:

If god is like a perfect parent, then why does he torture his 'naughty' children for an eternity? If a human father were to torture his children like that, he'd go straight to jail. He doesn't torture anyone. He tries what He can to get people to follow him and choose the right. People make the choice to go to Hell. Though there really isn't a Hell in the way most people think of it.

quote:Originally posted by chubbyman25:

He doesn't torture anyone. He tries what He can to get people to follow him and choose the right. People make the choice to go to Hell. Though there really isn't a Hell in the way most people think of it.

That's my interpretation on it.....

quote:Originally posted by Mutant Funk Drink:

If 'god' is all-powerful and all-knowing and perfect, then what significance are we to him? If I were god, I really wouldn't give a shit about such boring powerless people like us humans.

Statements like this make atheists look bad. Use logic or shut up.

If you were God, and perfectly good, of course you would care about other beings that can feel pain and suffering but also joy and happiness.

The only reason you wouldn't give a shit is because you aren't God. And, it seems, kind of a dick.

quote:Originally posted by Mutant Funk Drink:

If god is like a perfect parent, then why does he torture his 'naughty' children for an eternity? If a human father were to torture his children like that, he'd go straight to jail.

Because God is an asshole.*

*I don't need to include the 'if he exists' part because I can also say that the grinch is an asshole.

It's impossible to justify suffering. He is malevolent or non-existent.

The only real response I've heard is the appeal to the magic of free will but that breaks down because of heaven. If a perfect paradise exists that we can go to then we could be there now without removing our free will (unless it is removed there, in which case it is not necessary for perfection and again, the suffering would be needless).

I like pascal's wager. if you believe in God, and he exists. you have eternal life.

if you believe in God and He doesnt exist. you lose nothing

if you dont believe in God and He doesnt exist, you lose nothing.

But if you dont believe in God and He exists, you lose everything

quote:Originally posted by vazilizaitsev89:

I like pascal's wager. if you believe in God, and he exists. you have eternal life.

if you believe in God and He doesnt exist. you lose nothing

if you dont believe in God and He doesnt exist, you lose nothing.

But if you dont believe in God and He exists, you lose everything

We've been over this a hundred times now. How do you know if you believe in the right god and rules to go to heaven? The wager is foolish because there are infinite other possibilities one could believe in, not just two. Unless sacrificing virgins to quetzecoatl puts you in the same heaven as does killing infidels for allah. So heaven is the place people go who believe in any old stupid bullshit?

quote:Originally posted by vazilizaitsev89:

I like pascal's wager. if you believe in God, and he exists. you have eternal life.

if you believe in God and He doesnt exist. you lose nothing

if you dont believe in God and He doesnt exist, you lose nothing.

But if you dont believe in God and He exists, you lose everything

The problem is with an omniscient God, and that you may not be able to choose belief.

E.g. No matter how much I can try to believe in God, I can't. An omniscient God would see through the false belief.

quote:Originally posted by CatharticWeek:



Or maybe the entire cosmos is god and each negative person makes it a little more like hell.

Quoted for truth.

quote:Originally posted by Merlinman2005:

This perfect being made us to worship and glorify him.



What an arrogant god. What an asshole. I prefer to think more of my purpose in life than to be a desktop worshipper of god.

quote:Originally posted by Boss Tycoon:

What an arrogant god. What an asshole. I prefer to think more of my purpose in life than to be a desktop worshipper of god.

k

then think that way

quote:Originally posted by Viraljimmy:

We've been over this a hundred times now. How do you know if you believe in the right god and rules to go to heaven? The wager is foolish because there are infinite other possibilities one could believe in, not just two. Unless sacrificing virgins to quetzecoatl puts you in the same heaven as does killing infidels for allah. So heaven is the place people go who believe in any old stupid bullshit?

The way i understand it, P's W is/was meant in terms of the existential, hard atheist(i dont think i got the term right, but i'm too lazy to double check right now) vs. the christian belief (small C on christian)...

incase i got the term different than i'm intending, what i'm trying to say is that, if the atheist POV turns out to be correct, then the christian has lost nothing cuz he found "meaning" meaning in his existance... to which, the atheist has also (presumably)... in that senario, neither has lost anything.

However, if the Christian (big C) belief is correct, the Christian has gained everything and the atheist has lost everything.

P's W was not intended to answer (atleast, to my understanding) any other god or belief system.. in which case, both the christian and the atheist have lost out equally (or gained equally, depending on the particular belief system that would end up being correct).

It's my understanding that P's W was not being used as a proof or arguement, as much as it was used as an answer to the (hard) atheist.... i could be wrong, i havent looked at it very thoroughly or in quite some time.

johnny

^^^^ scratch the second meaning in <"meaning" meaning>

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

The way i understand it, P's W is/was meant in terms of the existential, hard atheist...

Ok, whatever. But you got what I was saying - why it fails as a practical rationalization for christianity, like it was used above.

quote:Originally posted by Viraljimmy:

Ok, whatever. But you got what I was saying - why it fails as a practical rationalization for christianity, like it was used above.

yes Viraljimmy, i did understand (and agree with) your meaning... just because i quoted your post, does not necessarily mean i'm attacking you. It was just the springboard to that point of discussion.



if my understanding of P's W is even close, then it seems that people on both sides of the fence misuse it or misunderstand it.... but then again, it could be that i misunderstand it and everyone else has it right lol.

johnny

God too has rules, His word was given to us in the Bible, he cannot change His mind or the Bible would be meaningless.

He put man on the earth to make the choice to worship Him or not, love others or not, feed the starving or not, but with your choices comes the consquences. You don't have to worship Him, But you loose your favor. You can't blame Him for the sick homeless guy you just walked past, as you do nothing.