Were you raised by your parents to be an Atheist? Have you conducted scientific experiments designed to disprove the existence of God? Did Father Mahoney touch your pee pee in Sunday School?

Tell us, why have you chosen Atheism? Don't post links to other websites to explain your views. I would like to hear YOUR personal reasons and experiences for concluding that Atheism is right for YOU. Use that thing on top of your neck. It's not an ornament.

I would like to know why YOU are an Atheist.

Ok? Discuss!

My parents rose me as nothing, taking me to various churches (and a mosque) so that I could make an informed decision by myself when I was ready. My father is an atheist (though he never mentioned it until I told him what I believed) and my mother was raised Catholic, now an agnostic.

I "chose" atheism becuase it made the most sense. I struggled briefly through a few religions (none of the were Christianity. That one seemed the most rediculous to me pretty much off the bat) before I started really listening to what scientists had to say. It occured to me that scientists had evidence to back up what they were saying, while religions had only the words of these old books. It didn't take long after that for me to recognize myself as a full-fledged atheist.

EDIT: A few grammar/spelling mistakes.

Another thought: atheism and science made more sense to me because science uses logic and religions use faith. I've never put to much stock in faith.

[This message has been edited by Kykeon (edited 01-25-2007).]

I wasnt raised as anything. I dont even remember my parents having a discussion with me about the subject other then saying theres a heaven. I've had conversations with my mom who ses she's Christian. She feels intimidated to express her views because me and my older brother ended up pretty strong atheists, she feels left alone. Same with my little brother. He does believe in a god, the only thing different with him is my mom put him into a private christian school for grade 8,9. My dad doesnt talk about it but if I try and guess what to call his views it'd be agnostic.

Ive always been good at science, never persued it more then highschool though. I tutoured most of my friends at school, and everybody hated me for it because i would come reaking like weed or in pain from drinking 50% booze all night the day before(happend ALOT). I wouldnt do homework and would ACE tests. The only way i can explain being good at science and math is being able to rationalize everything good and Instantly being able to look past what you first see and go throught the data again quikly.

Thats the only real answer I could give to as why i can see all the holes and bullshit in religion.

I'm an athiest because I don't believe in imaginary things. I don't have to do experiments to disprove god, cause nothing has been presented to me to suggest that one exists. Numerous experiments have been done that point to multiple flaws in all religious texts therefore they have little to no credibility. To follow a religion, I'd have to ignore numerable truths and logic, but with atheism, I have to ignore nothing. Pretty much anyone who has the balls to criticise their religion will no longer believe because it doesn't make any damn sense. I was taken to church as a child but my parents decided to not take me again when I asked my mom, "what's wrong with these people", during the service. Also the church seemed more concerned with getting a percentage of my dad's paycheck than saving our souls. Basically I never went to another service because I'm a free-thinker and won't accept lies just because it's in a old book revered by stupid people.

Ignorance.

My parents raised me Messianic Jew. A lot of people think Jews For Jesus is some kind of crazy Heavens Gate cult, but in actuality it's the basis of Christianity. The first Christians were Messianic Jews.

I was very interested religion from an early age and had already read the bible before starting first grade. I continuously badgered my parents to take me to different churches and temples and religious functions. I begged them to take me to see Benny Hinn Ministries and actually dressed as Tammy Faye for fifth grade Halloween. Genuinely scary pictures, hahaha.

But, over the years I acquired so much from all kinds of different religions that I found that I believed in them all the same. Every one I came across taught good basic values, had great stories with good morals, and ultimately taught me a whole lot about life and the world around me. And one thing I found in common with all religions is that I just genuinely didn't believe in their god. All the gods seem too mystical for me.

Science is my god and in my opinion it doesn't get any more holy than that. But, it doesn't stop me from believing that religion has a place in spirituality and in the world. I think it's a beautiful thing that can help people a lot and teach people a lot. I wish I believed more.

Cheers,

Lost

Most of what I learnt of their religion came from my grandmother’s generation and RE at school. My parents are both very apathetic to religion.

It never really made sense to me. As I grew older, my parents continued to reassure me that there is no such thing as magic and encouraged rational thinking. And here I was in RE class, learning about these miracle people that all seemed to be exceptions to the rules. There's even a man that comes back from the dead and that just seemed illogical. (My pet quail didn't come back to life after being slaughtered by rats http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif))

As I progressed in school, RE and the older members of my family were being contradicted more and more often by simple things I learnt in other classes. By the time I was 9, I had unceremoniously dumped religion into the same pile as witches, fairies and Santa Clause and had started getting into the natural sciences.

When I was 13, I decided that perhaps I had been a bit harsh, and started looking a little more into religion again. I read the NT and parts of the OT and found myself unconvinced. To belive in what I had read would require huge leaps of imagination and faith that I didn’t have in me.

I didn’t bother looking into very many other religions after that (I read a bit into Buddhism, and that was it) So many different groups and fractions claiming they were right. And all requiring that I put part of logic and rationality behind me. So back in with Santa they all went.

Ever since then, I have been more and more convinced that there is no such thing as a higher power, and that the world can run without one.

This must have already been said but I don't send my time preaching to god not because of some inner injustifications but because I chose not to. As said in some earlier post i randomly glanced, I prefer facts and not theories to shape my world.

For example, I'd prefer the Big Bang theory over Islam (What I would be if my parents actually cared about what I believe in.)

I'm not saying Islam is terrible, I would personally think of it as the best religion if it wasn't for its unnecessary fundamental ways.

Religion has saved no lives (literally speaking) instead millions have died for it's name. Please don't set up an argument but I believe religion was the perfect place to resort to in the earlier times, for example the time of Alexander but not when we can probably prove most of the "miracles" that caused people to adapt the ways of books that have probably been twisted a dozen times from the original.

Too Long/Didn’t Edit

EDIT: Just thought of something,

Why Atheism?

Why not?

[This message has been edited by random_jew (edited 01-26-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by THUNDERCOCK:

Have you conducted scientific experiments designed to disprove the existence of God?

Did you learn nothing in the other thread of yours? Proof is a reasonable requirement to believe in something, not to be absent of belief.

I am an atheist because I know better than to believe the lies of religion.

There is no god.

I forgot to mention that all religions are pretty clearly bullshit. That was pretty important in my decision to be an atheist.

Wow, these are pretty good responses so far. By the way, I'm not trying to "troll" or anything like that. I'm just trying to gain more understanding.

quote:Originally posted by easeoflife22:

I'm an athiest because I don't believe in imaginary things. I don't have to do experiments to disprove god, cause nothing has been presented to me to suggest that one exists... Also the church seemed more concerned with getting a percentage of my dad's paycheck than saving our souls. Basically I never went to another service because I'm a free-thinker and won't accept lies just because it's in a old book revered by stupid people.

This is hitting on what I think brings a lot of people to reject religion. I know I have only picked a couple of parts of the post, but these are very important thoughts.

In the first part, this person is looking for evidence in the outside world saying "nothing has been presented to me". I don't think anybody is ever going to find any evidence outside of one's self. Only within ourselves can we find god. (notice I use the small "g" and yes this assumes a god exists).

The second part of this post I have selected says the church seemed like they were in it for money and they depended on and revered an "old book". This is why I disagree with a lot of religious people. They too are looking externally and are depending on someone else for their beliefs.

This also just happens to be a major part of why I don't go to church, but I still believe in god. I have another thread idea I'm working on to go into this part of my personal beliefs in a lot more detail.

Thanks for keeping this mostly civil.

quote:Originally posted by CreamOfWarholSoup:

Ignorance.

Oh please, by all means prove to me god exists

i was born and raised catholic. went to catholic schools. discovered the internet. thought and read, thought some more. more thinking interspersed with reading.

came to the conclusion that god does not exist.

i could go through all my thoughts and shit, but i doubt anyone actually cares.

quote:Originally posted by nothing special:

i was born and raised catholic. went to catholic schools. discovered the internet. thought and read, thought some more. more thinking interspersed with reading.

came to the conclusion that god does not exist.

i could go through all my thoughts and shit, but i doubt anyone actually cares.



I care

and I want to hear details.

I wasn't really raised as anything. My mother tried to get me to believe in Jesus, but I never really got into it. After a while I realized I just didn't believe at all.

As for why? Various reasons. I don't believe in a Creator because I see no reason for one - it seems to me like believing in a pink teacup orbiting Mars (thanks, Russell). No evidence, no reason... no belief.

I don't believe in the Christian God, because I have a lot of moral, logical, and philosophical problems with the Bible. Same with Allah. Haven't much looked into Hinduism, but I will soon and figure I will run into the same problems.

quote:Originally posted by THUNDERCOCK:

Were you raised by your parents to be an Atheist? Have you conducted scientific experiments designed to disprove the existence of God? Did Father Mahoney touch your pee pee in Sunday School?



i'm athiest. my parents actually raised me christian, but i never felt anything for a "god"

have i conducted scientific experiments designed to disprove the existence of god? no.

have you conducted scientific experiments designed to prove the existence of god?

well. you might have, but i bet they got you nowhere.

exactly.

quote:Originally posted by gmail:

Oh please, by all means prove to me god exists

By ignorance I mean that I just don't really care or think about religion. I just supposed that the closest thing to it would be atheism.

He asked specifically why YOU are atheist and ignorance is my answer.

quote:Originally posted by Gorcrow:

I am an atheist because I know better than to believe the lies of religion.

There is no god.



Just because religion lies doesn't mean that there is no god.

Maybe it just means that there is no God.

quote:Originally posted by THUNDERCOCK:

Use that thing on top of your neck. It's not an ornament.



HAHAHA!!!

I have felt the best about myself and life at times when I was feeling in the least religious. I have not felt the presence of God. I have not had that warm blanket of comfort and love when I tried to believe in God. When I was being confirmed, despite the classes I had taken to learn that God had only one son... blah blah blah, I did not have my mind in the right place during the confirmation moment. I was wondering about I am not sure I believe. To me at that moment, God needs to give you the strength to think of nothing but him and his at that time.

All of that on top of the horrific things that have been carried out in his name. We know what they are; I don't need to restate them. I am sure they will be on this thread.

I hate the discrimination of getting into heaven. Someone who lives a great life in complete servitude, but yet denies the existence of God, doesn't go to heaven on the day of the rapture is bullshit. People will say, "Well he didn't accept the gift he gave him" Well he still lived his life for the other human beings in the world, that "God created" This man would have demonstrate the core things God stood for and if God can't accept him that shows bad character in the Lord and completely contradicts the whole idea.

Science is logical and I have seen and learned about the rigorous testing and scrutiny science theories go on. I believe in evolution seems logical to me, especially with DNA mapping and the sort. I don't have the misconception this also takes a degree of belief. I wasn't there to see it happen, but it makes sense to me.

My parents didn't teach me religious views, which is probably why I try to have respect for those of others.

I didn't choose to be atheist, and I doubt a lot of people really 'choose' to be religious. Can they help it?

I was raised Christian and one day realize I didn’t really believe in it, but was just using it to control my fear of death and give meaning to my life. I took the position of an atheist and decided not to believe in a God until I saw proof. I looked into it, saw there was no proof, that the universe can easily be explained without the necessity of a God, that it is impossible to know which religion is the right religion, that all the religions are probably wrong and that there probably isn’t a God, but it’s OK to believe in a God if you want. So I became an agnostic-atheist.

Lack of belief comes naturally to me.

im pentacostal, my roomate i live with is athiest. we get along great wich is cool and even discuss and agree on alot of things on how people act in church and bible stuff. its funny, i can talk to an athiest openly about religion, but not my parents -- who are baptist. go figure lol. i was agnostic before i moved to texas, i got into a pentacostal church and saw some things that changed my thoughts an d opinions on God. i dont mind athiests and can get along with em great.

Grew up Christian, moved toward deism sophomore year of college when my history teacher explained the evolution of how mankind has understood nature - ie religion or metaphysics has been used for a long time to understand physics, life, existence etc, but science changed all of it. This made me believe god existed, but only as a deist god - which nullified my christian beliefs.

Later, I came to understand that if I am deist and believe I can't experience god - I ought not necessarily believe in god and became an agnostic. For the past 2-3 years I've been an agnostic, rationalizing my middle position to atheists by stating that it made more sense to me that all was created by something rather than nothing.

Slowly over the past month, I've come to understand that I am simply trying to explain something to myself which is currently unexplainable and that I am filling in the empty gap with - "maybe god did it". Furthermore, this thing I am trying to explain is 'the existence of existence' which is a fruitless endeavor at best, since stating that 'god created our system' simply leaves you asking 'what created god's system?' Therefore, believing in god or not disbelieving in god leaves you in the same quandary. If there is no empirical reason to believe in such a being - you might as well have an unbelief - atheism. So I guess I am officially an atheist, though I am still wary of calling myself one in public. If any others here live in the bible belt, you understand where I am coming from. There are IMMENSE negative connotations that come along with the word 'atheist' here, it is as if you are a devil worshipper or something. It is even harder for me, because I am so deeply engrained in the idea of god/christianity as being such an inherently good thing. At the same time, I could never go back to where I came from simply because of my positive emotional feelings toward such concepts.

Many of my closest friends are at the very least, not religious, so they don't care what I am. Yet, in my larger circle of friends, they are mostly christian and conservative and I feel like they view me quite differently now, just because I've changed from being religious to secular. My dad even told me yesterday that he felt he has failed me, which made me very sad to think that my mere beliefs has brought him grief. Yet, this is what happens when a person is THAT deeply engrained into a belief for over 50 years. They REALLY believe I may go to hell and I can see how this would be very distressing. I don't want to bring this distress to the people around me, but there is little I can do about it while staying true to myself.

[/rant]

quote:Originally posted by Kykeon:

My parents rose me as nothing, taking me to various churches (and a mosque) so that I could make an informed decision by myself when I was ready. My father is an atheist (though he never mentioned it until I told him what I believed) and my mother was raised Catholic, now an agnostic.

I "chose" atheism becuase it made the most sense. I struggled briefly through a few religions (none of the were Christianity. That one seemed the most rediculous to me pretty much off the bat) before I started really listening to what scientists had to say. It occured to me that scientists had evidence to back up what they were saying, while religions had only the words of these old books. It didn't take long after that for me to recognize myself as a full-fledged atheist.

EDIT: A few grammar/spelling mistakes.

Another thought: atheism and science made more sense to me because science uses logic and religions use faith. I've never put to much stock in faith.



QFT! My family tried to raise me as a Christian, and make me go to church when I was younger, but I just felt the same way you did.

lots of people are atheist/agnostic probably because they're parents never did lots of religious stuff, and didn't go to church alot, like myself. I mean, after over a 1000 years and this ultra being still hasn't showed his fate? Its like a really asshole celebrity, i mean, these people are making all these predictions when god comes to Earth, and he fails to come each time, unless hes invisible, of course. Don't take the asshole celebrity thing as a slam to God, i might not be a huge believer, but i still don't say bad shit about god/jesus, usually. Yeah go figure.

I was raised to be a Christian, but I soon began to believe that my parents are retarded. I began to think outside the box, and not become gullible to society. I thought very hard about why there would be a god, what kind of power he would have, and how he was created. I found that physical matter is inevitable. And that eventually, people would begin to feel alone. So they would create an imaginary figure in which they called "god". I do not feel alone, nor I am stupid enough to actually believe in "god".

I don't think I really chose atheism. My parents raised me very strongly christian untill my fourteenth, then they didn't force me to pretend to be christian anymore.

I just didn't chose any religion as none made sense to me as soon as I started digging in it. I also really don't see the sense in a greater god who created us, loves us and wants us to be free and still do his will and go to heaven. So, I guess that makes me an atheist.

My Mom encouraged me to go to Christian church, and I did, but she never really forced me. The day I got over being afraid of dying was the day I stopped believing in god. I realised that he was completely made up, just to comfort the various fears people have about life in general. Well, it may just be because I'm a badass, but I don't feel fear.

There is no empirical evidence of the supernatural.

Therefore I don't believe in it.

Oy, Thundercock!

Why athorism?

Why a-[pink unicorns living on Neptune]-ism?

Why don't you believe in orcs?

Ignorant you show me proof of the big bang theory. It is nothing more than a theory. The theory of religion is just as believable as the big bang theory. I find it more ridiculous to believe that this complex world we live in came from some particles of matter. Sure there being a god has no proof either but i still find it more believable then the big bang THEORY.

Short answer before I leave the office for the weekend:

Religion is Just.Not.Necessary.

But what if there truly IS an afterlife, you say?

Well then ... I should be rewarded and sent to heaven for following a decent moral code WITHOUT the carrot-and-stick method of following a religion. I did it JUST BECAUSE, without even expecting a reward at the end of my existence here on earth.

Edit: And what he said:

quote:There is no empirical evidence of the supernatural.

Therefore I don't believe in it.

Well put!!



[This message has been edited by AngryFemme (edited 01-26-2007).]

"In science, a theory is a proposed description, explanation, or model of the manner of interaction of a set of natural phenomena, capable of predicting future occurrences or observations of the same kind, and capable of being tested through experiment or otherwise falsified through empirical observation. It follows from this that for scientists "theory" and "fact" do not necessarily stand in opposition. For example, it is a fact that an apple dropped on earth has been observed to fall towards the center of the planet, and the theory which explains why the apple behaves so is the current theory of gravitation."

-wikipedia

I was raised a lukewarm protestant, and then I stopped pretending to believe in God when it became obvious to me that there was no evidence for God's existence. If there is no empirical evidence for something, I dont believe in it.

As to the statement about the big bang being a theory, you are correct. A theory is a model that explains a set of facts. It is disproveable (which no religion is,) and it changes to match new evidence. It is incorrect to say that a scientific theory based on facts is comparable to a religion based on faith.

quote:Originally posted by twista:

Ignorant you show me proof of the big bang theory. It is nothing more than a theory. The theory of religion is just as believable as the big bang theory. I find it more ridiculous to believe that this complex world we live in came from some particles of matter. Sure there being a god has no proof either but i still find it more believable then the big bang THEORY.

"It's just a theory" is a terrible argument. Go look up the scientific term for theory, as opposed to the layman's term.

Also, you can't really believe that God is more believable, can you? You can't believe that it's a lot easier to explain the complexities of the world via an even more complex being as opposed to slow, gradual changes that grew more and more complex? If everything has a cause, then what's God's cause? If you can accept that God (who would be far more complex than the universe) was simply around forever, then why can't you assume the same about the universe, which is self-evident, unlike God, who has no evidence, and simply do away with God?

Your whole argument is flawed.



[This message has been edited by Hare_Geist (edited 01-26-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by twista:

Ignorant you show me proof of the big bang theory. It is nothing more than a theory. The theory of religion is just as believable as the big bang theory. I find it more ridiculous to believe that this complex world we live in came from some particles of matter. Sure there being a god has no proof either but i still find it more believable then the big bang THEORY.

Some idiots just dont get what a theory is, They never took a science class obviosly. A theory is a way to explain the facts discovered. The facts in the Big Bang theory is the expansion of the universe, and the fact that we know things are exploding all over the place in space, so we can presume that everything started from a BIG BANG

quote:Originally posted by twista:

Ignorant you show me proof of the big bang theory. It is nothing more than a theory. The theory of religion is just as believable as the big bang theory. I find it more ridiculous to believe that this complex world we live in came from some particles of matter. Sure there being a god has no proof either but i still find it more believable then the big bang THEORY.

I like the Big Bang theory, but I have heard it has been disproven and there is a new theory out there because of some quarks or something. I have to research that some more.

Here's something that I thought was freaky. I'm not sure which religion (maybe kabbalah?) but there is a belief (not mine) that God created the Universe and it's always expanding because God is a creator god and he's always creating. Everything God creates is a piece of God. Eventually, at the end of time, the universe will collapse and everything will return to God and become one with Him once again.

I thought it was weird that some ancient people came up with this and then the Big Bang came out and was so similar.

quote:Originally posted by THUNDERCOCK:

Have you conducted scientific experiments designed to disprove the existence of God?



Here's an experiment: Shit in your hat!

quote:Originally posted by THUNDERCOCK:

I like the Big Bang theory, but I have heard it has been disproven

You heard wrong.

There is a huge difference between a theory and a hypothesis. A hypothesis is a proposed explanation for a yet-to-be-tested phenomenon. A theory is a hypothesis that has NEVER been disproven in a test. In science, to prevent dogma (its a bit of a failure) nothing can be PROVEN true, only not proven untrue.

I think, though I was raised and for a long time though I believed in christianity, that I was always atheist. I remember coming home from pre-k and asking my mom how god could sit on a cloud, since clouds are just suspended water vapor. None of it ever made sense to me. Its not that there's no proof, its that there's no reason to believe it. The only reason is that somebody is telling you its true and the only motivation is within the acceptance of their story. If you just don't accept it, its hard to see how it could ever make sense. Without the extensive conditioning on the subject, religion would almost assuredly die, within a few generations. Try telling a 20 year old who's lived his life free that he can't do anything except what a thousand-year-old book says, because if he doesn't he'll go to HELL when he dies! Its a blatant falsehood, and there is NO reason to accept it. Again, provide ONE reason why I should believe in god that doesn't involve the myth of god.

Why atheism? Because it makes sense outside of in an entirely constructed logic system.

I wasn't raised to be religious or non-religious; it wasn't an issue in my house. When I went to school I found that other kids and their parents were religious; their stories never made any sense to me even as a child, so I wrote them off as bullshit. To this day, religious stories strike me as being just that... stories. There's nothing to suggest that there is a God or gods out there, and frankly most of the religious people on Earth are a bunch of ignorant, emotional fucknauts anyway.

I was raised christian, tried my best to be faithful and enjoy the religion, but couldn't, mainly because I was into science from a young age (dinosaurs lead to bigger and better things). So I never fully believed in christianity. Before I turned 16, I decided to stop deluding myself and give up the faith. I still pretend to be christian, out of respect for my family and the social advantages of not being some stupid rebellious teenager.

quote:Originally posted by THUNDERCOCK:

I like the Big Bang theory, but I have heard it has been disproven

I've heard this before, but I can't remember where (on totse probably), so I looked it up and can't find anything saying that it's been proven false.

Probably just a rhumour.

People often try to use the unexplainable to explain the unexplainable.

quote:Originally posted by Hare_Geist:

I've heard this before, but I can't remember where (on totse probably), so I looked it up and can't find anything saying that it's been proven false.

Probably just a rhumour.

You might be thinking of this (http://www.totse.com/bbs/Forum15/HTML/006247.html) Totse thread where Hexadecimal makes some bullshit claims about the Big Bang. At one point he makes a bunch of apologies for being incorrect, only to make other bullshit claims. He is corrected once again in the fourth to last and last post, but this time doesn't come back to defend his nonsense.

quote:Originally posted by twista:

Ignorant you show me proof of the big bang theory. It is nothing more than a theory. The theory of religion is just as believable as the big bang theory. I find it more ridiculous to believe that this complex world we live in came from some particles of matter. Sure there being a god has no proof either but i still find it more believable then the big bang THEORY.

Since no one else has posted this here is some evidence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang#Observational_evidence

From this one can logically come up with the model that the Big Bang presents.

I dont believe in a deity because the evidence on both hands for and against the probability of there being such a thing is so heavily weighted in favour of Atheism.

On another point, i also dislike religion as a whole.

quote:Originally posted by glutamate antagonist:

Oy, Thundercock!

Why athorism?

Why a-[pink unicorns living on Neptune]-ism?

Why don't you believe in orcs?

quote:Originally posted by xray:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hare_Geist:

[b] I've heard this before, but I can't remember where (on totse probably), so I looked it up and can't find anything saying that it's been proven false.

Probably just a rhumour.

No, it wasn't on totse. The link below talks about a new theory about the Big Bang, but this isn't where I found this originally. If I find exactly where I heard this before I'll post it, otherwise this is pretty close to what I heard. It had to do with the amount of matter in the universe not adding up, but I thought it had also something to do with sub-atomic particles.

This link also goes into the expand/collapse thing I said above too. I also heard another freaky thing that says that because the universe expands, collapses, and starts over again that everything has happened before and will happen again. So basically we have lived before and had this exact conversation billions of times in the past and will do it billions of times again in the future exactly the same over and over. The universe just keeps repeating itself.

http://tinyurl.com/2x6qrj

[This message has been edited by THUNDERCOCK (edited 01-27-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by glutamate antagonist:



Ask me a serious question and I'll answer it.

quote:A new theory of the universe suggests that space and time may not have begun in a big bang, but may have always existed in an endless cycle of expansion and rebirth.

That's not new. I believed in that myself, at one point. It doesn't exactly refute big bang theory though, just expands on it.

edit - PS, it's not us that have the conversation over and over, it's matter constructed exactly like us because there's only so many possible combinations. That's Nietzsche's Eternal Recurrence.



[This message has been edited by Hare_Geist (edited 01-27-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by THUNDERCOCK:

I like the Big Bang theory, but I have heard it has been disproven and there is a new theory out there because of some quarks or something. I have to research that some more.

quote:Originally posted by THUNDERCOCK:

No, it wasn't on totse. The link below talks about a new theory about the Big Bang, but this isn't where I found this originally.

At best it is a controversial and not well-accepted theory as of yet. As Hare_Geist indicates, cyclical universe theories are not all that new. In any case, it does not necessarily discard the occurrence of a Big Bang as the origin of the present universe, it just postulates there have been previous cycles of Big Bangs and Big Crunches before.

It may help to distinguish between the "Big Bang" as the beginning of the universe and the more technical usage of the Hot Big Bang.

The latter is used by cosmologists to refer to the universe having passed through a relatively brief period of immensely high densities and temperatures about 13.7 billion years ago. There is now a considerable amount of precision evidence from the likes of WMAP (http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/)and primordial nucleosynthesis (http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/astro-ph/pdf/0511/0511534.pdf) (a pdf) that this happened. There's essentially no disagreement amongst astronomers that such a period occurred or about the time in the past that it did. Steinhardt and Turok completely accept both that there was a Hot Big Bang and the timescale.

Where there's uncertainty is in what happened before the Hot Big Bang period. In the more conventional view, (much) less than a second before that period started time and space themselves came into existence. The universe has a beginning, followed more or less immediately by a Hot Big Bang. In Steinhardt and Turok's version, there is a trillion (or whatever) year series of events that triggers a Hot Big Bang phase 13.7 billion years ago.

From then on the two views are equivalent. There's no basis to suppose that Steinhardt and Turok's suggestion undermines the standard account of the subsequent Hot Big Bang and the following 13.7 billion years.

quote:Originally posted by THUNDERCOCK:

No, it wasn't on totse. The link below talks about a new theory about the Big Bang, but this isn't where I found this originally. If I find exactly where I heard this before I'll post it, otherwise this is pretty close to what I heard. It had to do with the amount of matter in the universe not adding up, but I thought it had also something to do with sub-atomic particles.

This link also goes into the expand/collapse thing I said above too. I also heard another freaky thing that says that because the universe expands, collapses, and starts over again that everything has happened before and will happen again. So basically we have lived before and had this exact conversation billions of times in the past and will do it billions of times again in the future exactly the same over and over. The universe just keeps repeating itself.

http://tinyurl.com/2x6qrj



There's something called the M-Theory. It stands for "multi-verse" and basically says that we are just one of many universes, coexisting "side by side".. or something like that. It's so recently proposed (I think it came about in 1995 maybe) that scientists and the like have only just begun discussing/analyzing it.

[This message has been edited by bung (edited 01-29-2007).]