Alright, my brother (who is an Atheist) is being forced by my parents to go to church. I really believe that nothing in this world can change his beliefs. Although he's still a minor, i think that he should have a right (along with everyone else) to not be forced upon to go to church. I don't care what age.

Anyone agreeing with me?

Being an atheist as much I hate to see people forced to go church I would hate to see the government intervening in such a way.

quote:Originally posted by Q777:

Being an atheist as much I hate to see people forced to go church I would hate to see the government intervening in such a way.

Agreed. It's best that the government leaves religion and family matters alone.

We're forced to go to school for the first 16 years of our lives. They scold you for not learning things they think you should know.

What's different about church?

quote:Originally posted by sealsaregay:

Alright, my brother (who is an Atheist) is being forced by my parents to go to church. I really believe that nothing in this world can change his beliefs. Although he's still a minor, i think that he should have a right (along with everyone else) to not be forced upon to go to church. I don't care what age.

Anyone agreeing with me?

It's the parents decision, not the governments.

quote:Originally posted by Quebb:

We're forced to go to school for the first 16 years of our lives. They scold you for not learning things they think you should know.

What's different about church?

School is teaching you life skills and things will help you get a job later in life. Church doesn't do that (Unless you're going to be a priest for a living)

quote:Originally posted by Quebb:

We're forced to go to school for the first 16 years of our lives. They scold you for not learning things they think you should know.

What's different about church?

School provides you with skills necessary to be an asset to society. Church...well...is a nice way to spend a Sunday I guess?

Parents don't force their kids to go to church, they suade them - threaten to take away privileges that are not mandated to be granted by law (everything but food, shelter and health). Reprehensible, immoral, disgusting and perfectly legal. On the same basis parents force their kids to keep their grades up and join athletic teams or get a job

quote:Originally posted by Lamabot:

School provides you with skills necessary to be an asset to society. Church...well...is a nice way to spend a Sunday I guess?



On paper, Christianity teaches more about life than school ever will. Not just how to be an asset towards society, but towards humanity on the whole.

Granted it doesn't work that way because of certain pricks in command of Christian churches, but there's nothing inherently bad about Christianity. It's the people that are fucked up, not the religion.

To the original question: it's the parent's prerogative. The government shouldn't meddle in the affairs of the family unless children (or more rarely, parents) are endangered. A parent is to raise their child as best they see fit, which sometimes includes making them attend church.





[This message has been edited by King_Cotton (edited 01-30-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by King_Cotton:

On paper, Christianity teaches more about life than skill ever will. Not just how to be an asset towards society, but towards humanity on the whole.

Granted it doesn't work that way because of certain pricks in command of Christian churches, but there's nothing inherently bad about Christianity.

It's the people that are fucked up, not the religion.

You can get your bible and read it at home. Church is bullshit

quote:Originally posted by Lamabot:

You can get your bible and read it at home. Church is bullshit

Yep, it always is to an nonbeliever, but to someone who takes it seriously attending church is a fulfillment of faith.

There's no me; I'm not Christian. I wasn't defending attending mass, I was saying that Christianity (at its core roots) generally offers more than school in terms of helping society.

I change my position, however, because they are both necessary for a happy society.

quote:Originally posted by King_Cotton:

Yep, it always is to an nonbeliever, but to someone who takes it seriously attending church is a fulfillment of faith.

There's no me; I'm not Christian. I wasn't defending attending mass, I was saying that Christianity (at its core roots) generally offers more than school in terms of helping society.

I change my position, however, because they are both necessary for a happy society.

A OVERWHELMING majority of current adult Christians are products of church. Most of them vote against giving up their possessions through taxes and promoting social legislation such as medical help and welfare. This is counterproductive to society.

What they DO learn is ignorance and hate. 55% Of americans don't believe in evolution, not because they considered the evidence and found it insufficient, but because it runs contrary to their belief. Gays getting married? No send them to hell. Stem cells? wont mothers sell their embryos and get pregnant only for that reason?

How is this beneficial to society? If you read the bible on your own however you are more likely to grasp the essence of the philosophy and exercise it rather than reinforce your belief in god every Sunday or get caught up on words.

Christianity is not beneficial to society; even a cursory glance at the source material uncovers all kinds of horrible things like slavery and intolerance throughout the bible. Granted, moderate or liberal Christians will deny this until the cows come home, but this shit is all fucking written down so their wails of "But it doesn't say that/it's taken out of context/God is love no matter what you say!" are clearly wrong.

I'm not defending church. I'm defending religion.

Christianity was good until some men corrupted everything. That doesn't debunk Christianity, but men.

Surak: the Bible has flaws. The core principles of Christianity (which usually focuses around Christ's message) are to love God above all else and to love your neighbor as yourself.

Loving your God and loving humanity seems pretty beneficial to me, but what the fuck do I know. Yes, people have twisted that message out of greed and hate, but that doesn't negate the message.

Edit-according to a Gallup survey only 1/3 of America seems to believe in evolution. When the survey was reworded, 13% supported evolution and about 38% supported evolution guided by God (source: Language of God, Francis S. Collins). Sad numbers, eh?

[This message has been edited by King_Cotton (edited 01-30-2007).]

In case you hadn't noticed, minors have no civil rights.

And the Bush administration is working hard to see that adults have none, either.

You dont need a law.

Your brothers just a pussy. If he doesnt want to go he shouldnt go. He should grow some balls and tell your parents to shove there religion up there asses.

You should stop being a fag and listen to your parents for once. OH NO! I said do what your told! How conformist, I must be a bad person! Wow, your parents have the right to raise you however they damn well please. If that means raising you christian, shut the fuck up and deal with it untill you can move out. Untill then, you're only a kid, and kid's don't have rights. As much as you want to believe it, you don't.

Just have him express his atheist beliefs at church. Pretty soon your parents will stop making him go.

I think it should be law that the basic tenets of all major religions should be taught in public schools just to inform people. Currently parents have full power to brainwash their children into believing anything. I'm against brainwashing.

quote:Originally posted by turkeysandwich:

You should stop being a fag and listen to your parents for once. OH NO! I said do what your told! How conformist, I must be a bad person! Wow, your parents have the right to raise you however they damn well please. If that means raising you christian, shut the fuck up and deal with it untill you can move out. Untill then, you're only a kid, and kid's don't have rights. As much as you want to believe it, you don't.

What gives his parents the right to rase him? Because his dad stuck is dick in to is mothers vagina and some cum squirted out? I have no idea how that makes you smarter or better or gives you more rights.

I understand that in the current world you are correct, we as kids have to rights. However im am trying to point out thats not how it should be.



Get your brother to tell all the people in your church about your new religion "logic" then give them this website [URL=http://www.venganza.org[/URL]



[This message has been edited by perfect chaos (edited 01-31-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by perfect chaos:



What gives his parents the right to rase him? Because his dad stuck is dick in to is mothers vagina and some cum squirted out? I have no idea how that makes you smarter or better or gives you more rights.



Yes, it is because his dad fucked his mom. It makes him his mom and dad's responsibility, legally and ethically. You're saying a parent has no right to discipline and guide their children? Are they still required to feed the kid, too?

No, it should not be a law, because I am a supporter of small and limited government and a law like this would be a gross invasion of the way a family conducts their lives. I'm an atheist and I HAVE had to put up with being forced into church, but as soon as I turned 17 that bullshit went out the window. Eventually, you gain the independence to make your own choices, even if it takes until you're 18.

quote:Originally posted by FaceTheSlayer:

It's the parents decision, not the governments.

quote:Originally posted by FaceTheSlayer:

It's the parents decision, not the governments.

It's the individuals decision, not the parents.

A child should have the right to believe in what they wish, they should be taken seriously and contradicted in the same way an adult would.

How else do you expect a mind to flourish?

quote:Originally posted by Q777:

Being an atheist as much I hate to see people forced to go church I would hate to see the government intervening in such a way.

QFT.

And despite everything I believe that if you're a minor you are obligated to do as your parents say unless it puts you in physical danger. Therefore, if your parents make you go to church, you should go no matter your personal spiritual beliefs or the hypocrisy of it. At that point I think it siezes to be about religion and becomes more about common respect for your parents.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by Q777:

Being an atheist as much I hate to see people forced to go church I would hate to see the government intervening in such a way.

Exactly, the less the government interferes the better. You need to discuss it with your parents and anyone else you think might be able to influence them.

quote:Originally posted by King_Cotton:

Yes, it is because his dad fucked his mom. It makes him his mom and dad's responsibility, legally and ethically. You're saying a parent has no right to discipline and guide their children? Are they still required to feed the kid, too?

No im not saying that in anyway, Im saying that the kid should get a choice. That parents don't necessarily know better.

however i agree with many of the posts saying that it would be horrible for the government to place its self in this battle.