I wonder: when Jesus of Nazareth was preaching, do you think he realised he was creating an entirely new religion, or did he consider himself and his followers a different sect of Judaism? Did he know that eventually there would be billions of people who would name their relgion after him and use his words as justification for war? I'm going to work under the assumption that he was not divinly inspired, because any historical records of him that consider him to be the son of God are highly biased.

So do you think that he would have thought of himself as someone who was redefining the older jewish religion or inventing a totally new one?

It's hard to say. I think you'd have to actually know Jesus as a person to know something like that.

But I think he knew what he was doing when he had loads of people following him.

quote:Originally posted by anti gravity:

because any historical records of him that consider him to be the son of God are highly biased.

Example?

I think that he probably thought of himsel as redefigning Judaism. At one point he says that not a word of the law should change, and there is also an instance of racism against gentiles. I forget the actual passages, but I'll look them up later and put them in an edit.

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

Example?

Uh.... the bible?

Anyways, i dont think he was defining or creating a religion. I believe he was trying to set an example to live by.

quote:Originally posted by anti gravity:

I'm going to work under the assumption that he was not divinly inspired, because any historical records of him that consider him to be the son of God are highly biased.



Jesus was either the son of God or a loon. He proclaims his divinity throughout the New Testament. Only a less than sane person or the true son of God would do this. So Jesus was either a mad blasphemer or God.



Just so you know, the Bible is a book of faith, not of history.

^^^The bible has plenty of history in it.

I bet if you would have asked Jesus though, he would have said that he is merely a jew doing the work of his Father.

I mean, he didn't like priests, so I doubt he was actively trying to start a cult.

quote:Originally posted by Rizzo in a box:

^^^The bible has plenty of inaccurate history in it.

Fixed.

Purely relying on the historical account, I can believe that Jesus was a good man. A good carpenter. Someone with a high degree of morals, who believed in his faith and who must have had a way with people when it came to following him around. A loving, kind man who seeked to help others realize their full potential through love and kind deeds.

Why are there no texts written by Jesus himself? Was he illiterate, like most poor people were in his time? Is it safe to say that the scribes who wrote about him might have embellished a bit, to make their story more believeable?

To answer the OP's question, it is my opinion that Jesus of Nazareth didn't realize he was creating a new religion. I think most of the "new religion" that followed was set forth in writing by other people, several decades after the alleged death/ressurection took place.

quote:Originally posted by Rizzo in a box:

^^^The bible has plenty of history in it.



What I mean by that is the Bible is, according to Catholic doctrine, meant to be interpreted contextually rather than literally.

quote:Originally posted by anti gravity:



So do you think that he would have thought of himself as someone who was redefining the older jewish religion or inventing a totally new one?

IMHO it's pretty clear that if one takes the bible at face value he knew what would happen, however he was teaching that the kingdom of god is within and not accessed thru human organisations and religions.

Peace http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

I've yet to see any historical evidence Jesus was actually a real person. Evidence would be numerous accounts outside of the bible that he was a real person. This man walking around claiming to be the son of god performing miracles would have left alot of evidence behind. Alot was happening in the world at that time period. History was being recorded.

AngryDyke:several decades?try several centuries.

on a more personal note:i enjoy reading this forum when im drunk/high.it's bullshit aside,seems to be lacking in n00bs.

quote:Originally posted by midgeymonkey2:

AngryDyke:several decades?try several centuries.

AngryDyke?! That's a new one...

I stand corrected, the "religion" didn't take formation until centuries later, but the historical account begins just decades after his alleged death/ressurection.



[This message has been edited by AngryFemme (edited 02-19-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by King_Cotton:

Jesus was either the son of God or a loon. He proclaims his divinity throughout the New Testament. Only a less than sane person or the true son of God would do this. So Jesus was either a mad blasphemer or God.



Just so you know, the Bible is a book of faith, not of history.



Bullshit. Haven't you ever heard of metaphors? He was probably an enligthened person who knew speaking bluntly would get him in more trouble than he already was. That's why he spoke in parables and riddles. If you can cut through the christian dogma b.s. you can see the things he did say where brilliant and that he was a genius.

Let's work on confirming his existence first, kay?

Jesus would not approve of the way Christianty, in general, is being portrayed now. Jesus did not want to start a "cult", he wanted people to be aware that they were in sole connection with God and that they did not have to follow the word's of priests or anyone who was telling them how to praise God (today it would be the extremists who are quick to point out everyone's sins but their own). Jesus wanted people to live a life of love, without judgement or prejudice. He wanted people to be in touch with God through prayer and to live a fulfilling life without sin.

quote:Originally posted by Guildenstern:

Jesus would not approve of the way Christianty, in general, is being portrayed now

How do you know what Jesus would approve/disapprove of today? Jesus must have found it acceptable back in the day, how people portrayed his beliefs through reading and following of the Bible. This is the same society who stoned unbelievers, burned people at the stake for "heresy" and did other countless atrocities to unbelievers of the faith. Fast-forward to the Modern world (today), and that type of society would be deemed barbarous, at best. Again - how can you be certain that Jesus would "approve" of how society has evolved where his teachings are concerned?

quote: Originally posted by Guilderstern:

Jesus wanted people to live a life of love, without judgement or prejudice. He wanted people to be in touch with God through prayer and to live a fulfilling life without sin.

You can only take what you know that was written of Jesus (not BY Jesus), and try to incorporate that into today’s modern world. You have to admit that the account of Jesus as we know him today was provided to us in a SECOND-HAND ACCOUNT by the scribes who wrote about Jesus. There are no texts written by J.C. himself.

If we accept the account of Jesus through these scribes to be true in matters of love, empathy and “selflessness”, then we must accept that other accounts of Jesus and his beliefs are true as well, which unfortunately includes all the unpleasant things that took place in a society so clearly split down the middle into “Believers” and “Unbelievers”.

What we label “Christian Extremist” today was completely acceptable back in those times. What we label “Christian Moderate” today would have been deemed “unbeliever” … or “half-assed” believer back in Jesus’ time. According to the scribes of the Bible, Jesus Christ pretty much had “You’re either with me or against me” attitude that the current U.S. president holds today.

All you (or anyone) knows of Jesus Christ is what has been reported to you secondhand. If you believe that the portrayal of Jesus as depicted in the Holy Bible is an accurate one, which I think you do, since you feel that you know what Jesus wants for all humankind – how can you safely say that you know what Jesus wants for modern society without the Biblical scribes reporting to you today?

If Jesus was the son of god, he knew. The people who created a religion around his teachings are the ones who were wrong. Jesus taught that true richeousness came from within, and couldn't be taught in books. Then like now, most people are quite stupid and are always sucked into mass movements even if hypocritical. Then again, if you believe god is testing you, the bible may be a tripping stone to those who are not truly richeous and are false, like most christians.

quote:Originally posted by easeoflife22:

If Jesus was the son of god, he knew. The people who created a religion around his teachings are the ones who were wrong. Jesus taught that true richeousness came from within, and couldn't be taught in books. Then like now, most people are quite stupid and are always sucked into mass movements even if hypocritical. Then again, if you believe god is testing you, the bible may be a tripping stone to those who are not truly richeous and are false, like most christians.

And how do you know this? The people who started the religion some century after or whatever are the people who wrote the bible. Wich your getting ALL your knowledge of jesus from. Theres no other historical accounts outside of the bible about jesus.

Actually there are many historical accounts outside of the Bible. Many gospels were not accepted by the counsel that Constantine organized to solidify the religion. Much of them showed a different side of Jesus who was against control, religious institutions, claiming them to be carrupt. He was teaching the ideals of love, tolerance, etc, but he never taught any rules to define his teachings. The rules were all created later when the stories of his life were put into written form. The fact that Jesus himself must have opposed his life being documented, since he was performing attention-catching miracles yet no first-hand accounts had been documented. Either that, or the entire story of his existence was completely fictional. Either way, it points to the truth that bible is most probably innacurate, and Jesus didn't support it's creation or the creation of the relgion trying to define rules to his teachings and actions.