Ok, I'm sure this has been brought up more times than any other topic in this forum but what the hell.

Someone please explain to me why there is still a debate about Religion and the majority (Well it appears to be the majority) still believe in God and religion?

I mean there is absolutely no proof what so ever that God exists or ever did , other than people telling you he does (Who have no idea themselves and are going by what their parents told them).

As far as I'm concerned the fact that a book written thousands of years ago says there is an all powerfull creator dosen't seem to verify God's existence.

If I wrote a book saying that a pair of scissors ruled and created the universe everyone would think I'm a fucking idiot, and with good reason. Theres no more proof of a ruling pair of scissors than there is of God.

I've brought this up to religious people before and they say its unfair to make that conclusion because theres no proof God dosen't exsist...

It is at that point I look at them like there fucking retarded, what do you mean no proof he dosent exsist? Yeah, and theres no proof my ruling pair of scissors dosent exsist. The fact that there is nothing that even suggests their existence is enough proof they are not real.

So why the fuck do people believe in religion, just because someone told them its true who has no idea themselves.

please...please...read more.

quote:

Religion? Why the Hell Is It Even Debated?

Curiosity... it is the ultimate question.

Because of Death.

quote:Originally posted by MR.Kitty55:



I've brought this up to religious people before and they say its unfair to make that conclusion because theres no proof God dosen't exsist...

So why the fuck do people believe in religion, just because someone told them its true who has no idea themselves.

THats the stupidist arguement for gods existed I've ever heard. ANd i hear it alot. Buts not the non believers duty to prove god doesnt exist. Its the believers duty to prove it does exist. There the ones making the claim, not us.

Religion has made people's minds weak, and religion is always there to help strengthen there minds. Its an ongoing process. That is possible to break out of if you have the will.

yes..there is that little thing called death and what happens after you die.

oh yeah, and because of psychedelics.

Yea, I kinda came to the conclusion that death is going to be just like before birth. Why would it end any way diffrent then how it started?

Humans are just too arrogant and self-rigetous to believe that we can't just die and whiter away like everything else, we have to be SAVED or DAMNED and be sentanced and there has to be this great finale when in reality its just a boring, anti-climactic end to bleak, meaingless, stain in time. When people hear the reality they can't cope with it and create a false God and afterlife to appease their fears that maybe everything they ever did and will do has no purpase.

I'm not too please.

quote:Originally posted by MR.Kitty55:

When people hear the reality they can't cope with it and create a false God and afterlife to appease their fears that maybe everything they ever did and will do has no purpase.

It's an ego thing. What's sad is that these people will base their entire lives on what they hope happens after they die. A good investment? I don't think so.

quote:Originally posted by MR.Kitty55:



Someone please explain to me why there is still a debate about Religion and the majority (Well it appears to be the majority) still believe in God and religion?



Everything in this material world seems to follow a set of instructions. Everything is somehow interwoven, a part of one big existance.

The idea that something can exist, spontaniously, under it's own power (like physics or this universe) is 'god'.

There are multitudes of different expressions. Some people are inherit beliefs from their parents, some find groups of likeminded people and some stumble across new ideas.

Open your mind to the possibilities, network, discuss, challenge your preconceptions!

People are idiots and don't like facing the truth.

Personally I find comfort in knowing that when I die, there will be nothing. No thought, pain, feeling, just nothing. 100% peace, just like before I was born.

quote:Originally posted by Hare_Geist:

Because of Death.



i like that one^^^^! but for your answer, im able to tell you i have proof that God or Allah exists! not proving thier existence but suggesting! if you look back through history you can actually see Gods plan in action! now im not good at explaining this part but ill try! For Christianity to spread all the right conditions had to be met before Jesus could come, every prophecy came true (100%) i'd just like to add for ity ties into something later! Each empire had to take over and contribute, what they did is spread the known world and connected mostly everbody together, then the romans built the roads! this had to happen so the religion would spread! Jesus came at the perfect time, this was something jesus wouldnt know(if he was a con) at the time! ok im going to stop there because if i keep going im gonna confuse myself lol! i would also make the claim or whatever it is discredited by you guys! im not the best person to explain but if you look it up im sure itll make sense to you!

ps. sorry

Dost thou dare mock the PROPHECY OF SCISSORS?

quote:Originally posted by Source:

Personally I find comfort in knowing that when I die, there will be nothing. No thought, pain, feeling, just nothing. 100% peace, just like before I was born.

Right on. That's my position. And what's more, knowing that this is the ONE shot I have at life gives me all the incentive I need to cherish each and every day, be good to people, love all I can and try to be the absolute best I can be. If I believed in an afterlife, it would somehow take away from the joyousness that I feel towards this life. It wouldn't seem quite as precious as it does now.

I find death to be a rock and a hard place. The thought of eternal nothingness terrifies me, the thought of eternal bliss seems impossible and likely to become boring, the thought of eternal suffering seems horrific, the thought of being born over and over again with these thoughts of death looming over me don't seem worth the effort and more than that, they all seem meaningless. People have this crazy idea that if you're immortal, then your life will have objective purpose. That's just not true, but I guess that's where the idea of God comes in (as well as to fill the world with justice when you blatantly see that without God or Karma there is none except a few trivial cases).

All of my life seems to be a preparation for death and a struggle to figure out how to affirm life, even in the face of aforementioned nothingness.

I guess I should have proposed this to some believers, not totse. but whatever

quote:Originally posted by Hare_Geist:

The thought of eternal nothingness terrifies me

I don't understand why, but I'm sure you have your reasons, and I'm sure that to you, they are valid ones. But being terrified of nothing(ness) is just beyond the scope of my comprehension.

You won't think, you won't feel, you won't suffer - you just will cease to exist. It might be difficult to come to terms with sentimentally, but once you grasp that your sentiments will die right alongside your body, you no longer have to contend with it.

I don't stress my own death, but do for my loved ones. Outliving the people I care about is what terrifies me. I will be left here dealing with those raw sentiments.

quote:I don't understand why, but I'm sure you have your reasons, and I'm sure that to you, they are valid ones. But being terrified of nothing(ness) is just beyond the scope of my comprehension.

They're not reasonable. I lay in bed at night, and I swear there is a split second, while I'm contemplating death, when I actually experience nothingness and this huge feeling of terror comes over my entire body. The thought of death has always terrified me. Why must it be reasonable? It doesn't have to be. To say emotion must be rational is to spit in the face of what it means to be human.

quote:Originally posted by MR.Kitty55:

I guess I should have proposed this to some believers, not totse. but whatever

Check out my answer. Perhaps.

Religion is just a starting point, how people interperate and practice it determines what good they get out of it.

Death will always be a little frightening. Especially for the cynic, who's spent all of their life bashing other people's ideas, instead of forming their own.

Strip away your ego and look at the universe. It's immense, and inexplicably it's being powered somehow. It's not good, nor evil, but it forms a huge interconnected circuit. Nothing is ever erased, it just changes.

Humans come and go, we're part of the human race and it's a fact.

But you'll never dissapear, you'll just change.

Have some faith that you've done what you were alive to do.

Have some humility before God and realise you're not that important anyway.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

quote:But you'll never disappear, you'll just change.

"I" will disappear, "I" will cease to be. Consciousness it what makes me me. Conscious requires a brain. Without consciousness, I would be an automaton, like a bird, living on instinct.

When I die, my brain will cease to function in the manner required for the process that is consciousness. Then rigor-mortis will set in for several hours, my blood will form blood pools within my body, and all my fluids will gush out of every orifice. Then I will be put on a stretcher and taken to a Morgue. There I will be hung on a hook in a freezer if there isn't a table available for me. Then a mortician will use a scalpel to cut a Y into my chest. He will insert a tube into a vein in my arm and drain me of all my blood, replacing it embalming fluid. I will then either be buried, where I shall slowly rot as insects eat my flesh and internal organs like a slab of meaningless meat, or I will be put in a Furnace and burned with other bodies, my bones will be put in a machine that grinds them to dust, and I'll be scattered somewhere. Either way, it is a horrific process and I will end up as nothing but a pile of dust.



[This message has been edited by Hare_Geist (edited 03-03-2007).]

And then there’s the question of how and when I will die. It could happen at any second of any day of my life. I could just be sitting here when a stroke hits me, an unknown blood-clot could kill me, a heart attack, old age, murder, a car, food poisoning, cancer, tumours, liver failure, kidney failure. It’s horrible to know that every night when you go to sleep, you don’t know if you’ll wake up in the morning.

Never be able to feel pain or pleasure, to love, hate, laugh, cry, fear, be content, to drive, swim, walk, talk, think, see the world, taste the foods of the world, feel the sun on your back or watch it snow, you’ll never be able to do anything ever again. It will all be gone, you’ll be gone. There will be no justice, no grand ending, you’ll never be able to see your friends or families or anyone again. And you know this from the moment you are born. Every time you breathe the air required to live, you are poising your lungs. Death is like a giant eyeball clock, watching every second of your life, waiting patiently as you run around in the short time you have, trying to figure everything out and for what? For nothing.

Seriously, this is a fucked up situation.



[This message has been edited by Hare_Geist (edited 03-03-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by Hare_Geist:

I actually experience nothingness and this huge feeling of terror comes over my entire body. The thought of death has always terrified me.

Yet you aren't really experiencing nothingness, just contemplating what it must be like to be in nothingness.

Nothingness (in the sense that we're speaking of) would not allow you to experience terror. There'd be no more experiencing anything, ever. Just that big old proverbial period at the end.

quote:Originally posted by AngryFemme:

Yet you aren't really experiencing nothingness, just contemplating what it must be like to be in nothingness.

I'm not contemplating nothingness, nor am I experiencing it, it's just... nothingness.

quote:Nothingness (in the sense that we're speaking of) would not allow you to experience terror. There'd be no more experiencing anything, ever. Just that big old proverbial period at the end.

The terror comes after.

quote:Originally posted by Hare_Geist:

I'm not contemplating nothingness, nor am I experiencing it, it's just... nothingness.

It wouldn't be nothingness if you are able to report about it. Nothingness couldn't permit retrospect ... or it wouldn't be nothingness.

quote: the terror comes after

After what?

quote:It wouldn't be nothingness if you are able to report about it. Nothingness couldn't permit retrospect ... or it wouldn't be nothingness.

Well if it is nothingness, then I have no idea what it is. But it's like a gap(hence no contemplation, no experience) and after it comes the worst feeling I have ever experienced.

quote:Originally posted by Hare_Geist:

it's like a gap(hence no contemplation, no experience)

I'm envious of your ability to achieve that. I can't even meditate effectively, but am practicing it with very slow progress. There's a good chance that you might be able to disassociate the feeling of terror when you have one of those episodes, ever thought about that?

Question:

Is it something you can contrive when you want to, or does it just happen? What I mean is, do you TRY to get to the gap, or does it just happen without any prompting at all?

I read only the first post, and I must say thank you. Anyone can believe what they want, but you cant change someones religion. You can make them say they believe what you do, but how can you be sure? And why the hell does it matter? Oh, and by the way, Im atheist.

quote:Originally posted by AngryFemme:

Is it something you can contrive when you want to, or does it just happen? What I mean is, do you TRY to get to the gap, or does it just happen without any prompting at all?

I can't bring it about at will, nor would I want to. It generally only comes about when I'm in bed and I begin thinking about death too intensely. It doesn't happen most of the time, but when it does, the after effect is not pleasant.

I've never personally cared about 'After'?

Nothing? So what?

Back again? Then one has no control about that...but only some control over ??? (?)

One time around? So what...I/you are here now. What? You want some kinda prize for being here too?

It seems quite common for folks to say that if there is not 'Eternity', then everything is useless. If I mad teh laws, I'd make a law that anybody who was heard to say that would be arrested.

Once arrested they would be placed in cold, dim rooms. They would be neither fed nor watered. They would be provided with nothing.

Whenever they voiced complaint? They would be told, "Cold? Oh, that doesn't matter. Hungry? Who cares, that's not important." http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

By their own logic: those are the correct answers. http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif)

I think Isaac Asimov said it best:

"Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome."

quote:Originally posted by CatharticWeek:

Everything in this material world seems to follow a set of instructions. Everything is somehow interwoven, a part of one big existance.

The idea that something can exist, spontaniously, under it's own power (like physics or this universe) is 'god'.

There are multitudes of different expressions. Some people are inherit beliefs from their parents, some find groups of likeminded people and some stumble across new ideas.

Open your mind to the possibilities, network, discuss, challenge your preconceptions!

Don't confuse this discussion with Einsteinian Pantheism.

When I saw the thread title, I thought this was about naive faith in people's ability to mind their own business. Not a "comically oblivious to it's own irony" rant.

In response to the thread title:

The exact same reason you care.

Their entire world is in terms of magic lollypop land, and their faith in the rules of magic lollypop land are as ingrained as your unquestioning faith in the process of science. You couldn't possibly audit the findings of every scientific study that drives your beliefs about your explaination. Just because it's much more realistic to audit their beliefs with critical thinking and freedom from assumptions doesn't make them any more willing to do so.

The drive to change minds and recruit others is the same pack tribe mentality that drives fraternities and gangs. It's a biologically ingrained survival strategy.

There's also a level of pecking order to it, where asserting your beliefs on others makes you the alpha male of the situation.

I believe in a science supported pantheism. I won't dignify the religious by association and indignify myself in kind by using the term "god" to describe existence and the natural order of things. But I recoginize the common ground I share with them, that after you take away all the misconceptions, that's what they actually believe in. Similarly to how the freemasons believe they have the universally accessable religion. I realize that what I hold faith in is the unified belief that all people share, regardless of religion: and all it's misconceptions. Simplified dumbed down absolute descriptions of reality. There's a famous quote somewhere along the lines of: "Descriptions are by nature selections and therefore reductions, and resultingly partial truths."

Fuck, for all I know, the earth is flat. But I recognize agnosticism in that I realize that I would have no way of knowing if such a deception was taking place. Truman Show shit.

That's the thing atheists never realize, agnostics are the only one who have it right. Until you've audited the entire scientific process you base your atheism on, you can never know for sure.

Is it an unreasonable, and paranoid doubt? Sure, but then again, nihilism demands it.

The fact is, I am capable of pulling the wool over people's eyes so bad that it would FUCK their brain to realize they had been decieved.

Knowing that, is it really unreasonable to suspect the same possibility applies to myself? I think it would be narcisistic to think otherwise.

That is the real, ultimate conclusion of logic.

The arrogant overstated faith in forensic science by forensic scientists giving testimony is what finally clued me in. People without fail assume that nobody would go to that much effort to decieve them, but it's for that reason that somebody WOULD go to that much effort. Because it would be the perfect crime.

Who am I to assume that I am at the top of the deception food chain? That's a pretty outrageous position to have faith that you hold. But for all relevant purposes you might aswell right?

I'm such a fucking genius.

I would go gay just to be with my clone I'm so brilliant.

quote:That's the thing atheists never realize, agnostics are the only one who have it right. Until you've audited the entire scientific process you base your atheism on, you can never know for sure.

If you're such a fucking genius, you would realize that lumping all atheists together is incredibly ignorant. Look up the terms "weak atheism" and "strong atheism". I'm a weak atheist, that means I don't believe in God but admit that there is a possibility that I am wrong.

Man, I don't have time to degeneralize my rants for PC purposes. I have thoughts that need outing.

quote:Originally posted by OdayJuarez:

Man, I don't have time to degeneralize my rants for PC purposes. I have thoughts that need outing.

It wasn't political incorrectness on your behalf, it was merely ignorance.

I've read books on atheism, I used to consider myself one. I'm familiar with the difference. I just don't bother pandering to inner religious semantics.

quote:Originally posted by Hare_Geist:

I can't bring it about at will, nor would I want to. It generally only comes about when I'm in bed and I begin thinking about death too intensely. It doesn't happen most of the time, but when it does, the after effect is not pleasant.

I used to think somewhat like you. But like I said before it doesn't bother me any more.

There is absolutely nothing you can do about death, you are going to die, we all are. Either one of two things will happen...

1. You die and wake up in an afterlife, and live for all eternity. (Unlikely and would probably get boring.)

2. You die and have no consciousness, with which to be afraid, scared and in pain with. (Most likely, and like I said before 100% peace.)

So depending how you look at it, dyeing is a win win situation.

[This message has been edited by Source (edited 03-03-2007).]

EXCELLENT POST MR.Kitty55!

JUST FUCKING MAGNIFICENT!

Christ, you convinced me!

Absolute Athiesm is far more foolish than Christianity. Read some philosophy, think for a while. The simplest explanation is not truth.

quote:Originally posted by Tarnak:

Absolute Athiesm is far more foolish than Christianity.

Uh-huh. Care to expand on that statement? Are you going to throw some Aquinas at us? Some Anselm, Paley or Augustine? Because they've all been refuted and they're all you've got. Every single argument for the existence of God I have seen has come from these four figures.



[This message has been edited by Hare_Geist (edited 03-03-2007).]

"If you're such a fucking genius, you would realize that lumping all atheists together is incredibly ignorant. Look up the terms "weak atheism" and "strong atheism". I'm a weak atheist, that means I don't believe in God but admit that there is a possibility that I am wrong."

That's not called weak atheism, that's called agnosticism. Atheism is straightforward - they beleive there is no God. Agnostics believe that it cannot proven that there is or is not a God, and as such, belief becomes irrelevant. That's not to say that one cannot lean toward disbelief or belief, just that they do not believe definitively that there is/is not a God.

It seems to me that the only difference between a weak atheist and a strong atheist is the yearning for an afterlife. Weak atheists are willing to ponder the possibility of a God because the promise of an afterlife seems so attractive. Strong atheists aren't willing to accept any explanations of the supernatural, including the possibility of an afterlife.

I can barely see where you guys differentiate weak atheism from agnosticism.

quote:Originally posted by Hare_Geist:

Uh-huh. Care to expand on that statement? Are you going to throw some Aquinas at us? Some Anselm, Paley or Augustine? Because they've all been refuted and they're all you've got. Every single argument for the existence of God I have seen has come from these four figures.



No. I don't believe in God.

But the Athiesm I encounter is ridiculous: people turn to science for everything and don't consider the problems it hasn't solved, like creation.

I don't think there ever was a beginning and there never will be an end.

But the OP contributed nothing useful.

quote:Originally posted by AngryFemme:

It seems to me that the only difference between a weak atheist and a strong atheist is the yearning for an afterlife. Weak atheists are willing to ponder the possibility of a God because the promise of an afterlife seems so attractive. Strong atheists aren't willing to accept any explanations of the supernatural, including the possibility of an afterlife.

I can barely see where you guys differentiate weak atheism from agnosticism.



Weak Athiests are actually the more logical: Strong Athiests take for granted the number of things that have been fully explained.

You can't absolutely disprove god with science any more than you can prove him.

[This message has been edited by Tarnak (edited 03-03-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by Iehovah:

That's not called weak atheism, that's called agnosticism. Atheism is straightforward - they beleive there is no God. Agnostics believe that it cannot proven that there is or is not a God, and as such, belief becomes irrelevant. That's not to say that one cannot lean toward disbelief or belief, just that they do not believe definitively that there is/is not a God.

Refutation: http://tinyurl.com/2kd8en

quote:But the Athiesm I encounter is ridiculous: people turn to science for everything and don't consider the problems it hasn't solved, like creation.

I abhor positivism - the belief science can and will answer everything. But I do believe science is incredibly useful.

quote:I don't think there ever was a beginning and there never will be an end.

I actually agree with you about the universe always existing. I admit that there is a possibility I'm wrong, but my argument is this: the universe is everything that ever was, is and will be. To speak of what came before the universe is absurd, because you're asking what was here before something was actually here.

quote:Weak Athiests are actually the more logical: Strong Athiests take for granted the number of things that have been fully explained.

You can't absolutely disprove god with science any more than you can prove him.

I agree entirely, but then I would. http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Tarnak:

You can't absolutely disprove god with science any more than you can prove him.



But you can not call into account supernatural entities by way of explanation when the answers aren't immediately clear. That is usually all that a strong atheist demands.

Most atheists (and I, for one, prefer the term secular humanist) do not focus as much on disproving god as they do searching for answers to the human predicament WITHOUT relying on mystical, supernatural forces.

quote:Originally posted by Hare_Geist:

I actually agree with you about the universe always existing. I admit that there is a possibility I'm wrong, but my argument is this: the universe is everything that ever was, is and will be. To speak of what came before the universe is absurd, because you're asking what was here before something was actually here.

It's the only sensible way to say that it was not created, for all things that have a beginning were created. To clarify, I'm defining creation as possible without intent. A chance combination of gases forming a star is creation.

It would be interesting if devolopments in physics one day led for mathematicians to say that the universe WAS created at a certain point, and that time did not exist before that.

You just haven't been touched by his Noodly Appendage.

Serious point - science can't give absolute proof of everything, e.g. what an individual electron does in Young's double slit experiment.

However, I embrace science. At least it is a field where theories are based entirely on evidence, are tested (as far as possible), and where no hypothesis is immutable.

With religion, one has to buy into a lot of absolutes without proof.

quote:Originally posted by NotOnlyButAlso:

You just haven't been touched by his Noodly Appendage.

Serious point - science can't give absolute proof of everything, e.g. what an individual electron does in Young's double slit experiment.

However, I embrace science. At least it is a field where theories are based entirely on evidence, are tested (as far as possible), and where no hypothesis is immutable.

With religion, one has to buy into a lot of absolutes without proof.

Have you been reading The Fabric of the Cosmos by Brian Greene? Because I swear I just finished a chapter on that exact experiment.

Science cannot explain everything. It has some very convincing explanations for many things that have been logically deduced. None of these things as of yet relate to Creation or definatively disprove God. A Christian can always say, "what created the Big Bang singularity?".

I hold to Science for most things, but it isn't Absolute any more than the bible. If I were to see evidence of ghosts or psychics I would be skeptical of science. Of course, I believe that even that kind of supernatural stuff could be explained by science, if studied.

quote:Originally posted by Hare_Geist:

Refutation: http://tinyurl.com/2kd8en

That link you provided says that an agnostic atheist is a type of strong atheist...

It is also Wikipedia, so it isnt exactly stone cold fact.

quote:Originally posted by dead_people_killer:

It is also Wikipedia, so it isnt exactly stone cold fact.

I know. I just found it a little humorous he would choose a link that is contradictory to what he personally believes.

quote:Originally posted by bung:

I know. I just found it a little humorous he would choose a link that is contradictory to what he personally believes.

it is quite humorous

religion is debated so priests can keep a roof over their heads. and touch little boys, lotta little boys. and fish on fridays.

quote:Originally posted by bung:

I know. I just found it a little humorous he would choose a link that is contradictory to what he personally believes.

Actually thats not what it said when I submitted it at all. Someone has evidently edited it.

quote:Originally posted by Hare_Geist:

Actually thats not what it said when I submitted it at all. Someone has evidently edited it.

Hahaha, those crafty wikipedia vandalizers!

quote:Originally posted by Hare_Geist:

Actually thats not what it said when I submitted it at all. Someone has evidently edited it.

true, as I saw it different as well.

Well if you believe you 'go around again' & you actually don't? Nothing you can do about it?

If you believe that you don't? Nothing you can do when you are 'Busted Back to Baby' & have to take another Earthly Acting Position...

Reincarnation makes no sense. Where did all the souls come from? Are they eternal? If so, then is there a set amount that doesn’t flux? If so, what if the amount of animals in the universe exceeds the amount of souls in existence? Does that mean that some animals are born soulless? Or is it only humans who have souls? But that makes no sense, since we’re simply an evolved animal like every other animal. And if it is only humans, the same question can be applied about exceeding the limit. And where do the souls go when there is no body for them to possess? Is there a heaven or something? IF so, why would they leave it unless it’s horrific or they’re forced to? And if souls possess animals, then what is a soul anyways? People tend to think its conscious, but bugs have no conscious. Is it simply energy? But then it wouldn’t be what makes you who you are, since who you are is your memories, desires, thought, etc. etc. Unless, of course, what actually makes you who you are the energy. But then who really wants to be a pile of pointless energy that goes in and out of bodies for all eternity only to not remember any of it? Is there an infinite amount of souls? No, because that’s impossible.

Schopenhauer made more sense than Hinduism and Buddhism, which he was influenced by. I don’t agree with Schopenhauer’s idea, but it was this: that there is no such thing as an individual soul. There is nothing but this illogical, unreasonable will that pervades all living beings and works through all living beings. It is this will that makes you who you are. You don’t really die, because you’re this all pervading will. It’s one will.

I worship the sun...