why do athiests find it nessesary to go around telling people their stupid for beleiving in a supernatural entity, and even goto the extent of writing books and making gay videos to put on youtube about it, no one cares exept for fellow athiests, who are they trying to convince, theyre surely not going to convert anyone with a 5 minute video, if everyone kept THEIR opinions to THEIR self, athiests and religious fanatics alike this world would be a much better place

The exact same thing can be said for religious people that try and convert others.

www.sciencevsfaith.ytmnd.com (http://www.sciencevsfaith.ytmnd.com)

quote:Originally posted by glutamate antagonist:

www.sciencevsfaith.ytmnd.com (http://www.sciencevsfaith.ytmnd.com)

im not saying the scientific method is dumb, im saying not beleiving in god and looking down upon others who do and trying to convert everyone is.

but i agree that the church does tend to ignore contradicting evidance of their beleifs, but most of their beleifs are created by man anyway, so is it not science

im talking about the existance of god, not the validity of the facts the humans write down as "the word of god"

I’ve seen no evidence for God, therefore I do not believe in God. However, I have no problem with people’s religious beliefs as long as they do not appear to be fucking up the universe. Only then do I intervene and speak out.

What’s so dumb about that?

It's not really atheists or religious people in general, it's the extremes of either side that give the majority of followers (one way or another) a bad name by pushing their beliefs on others.

Because people just don't know when to shut up.



...especially if they're below the age of 21.

Because atheists are being persecuted as America's most mistrusted minority. They feel the need to be defensive as they should.

quote:Originally posted by Burger15:

who are they trying to convince, theyre surely not going to convert anyone with a 5 minute video, if everyone kept THEIR opinions to THEIR self, athiests and religious fanatics alike this world would be a much better place

Wow man, thanks for sharing your opinion. Your paragraph of argument totally changed my mind. I should just listen to your idea, and stop trying to tell other people my ideas. Genius.

quote:Originally posted by phade:

The exact same thing can be said for religious people that try and convert others.

actually you are wrong! there is a REASON for religious people to try and convert others, so that person is not sent to hell! they are trying to save souls! but athiests do it in spite of the religions! there is no reason to convince someone there is no god! it doesnt affect anything and you acomplish nothing! so keep your piece of shit liberal athiest mouth shut!

quote:Originally posted by Masta Thief:

actually you are wrong! there is a REASON for religious people to try and convert others, so that person is not sent to hell! they are trying to save souls! but athiests do it in spite of the religions! there is no reason to convince someone there is no god! it doesnt affect anything and you acomplish nothing! so keep your piece of shit liberal athiest mouth shut!

quote:I’ve seen no evidence for God, therefore I do not believe in God. However, I have no problem with people’s religious beliefs as long as they do not appear to be fucking up the universe. Only then do I intervene and speak out.

Therefore, I have a reason for speaking out. I don't believe in hell, I don't believe in an afterlife, I don't believe in a God. I do believe in this life and that one should affirm this life, however, and if I see them fucking it up, then it would be stupid of me not to speak out.

PS, are you assuming that he is a liberal because he is an atheist, therefore implying all atheists are liberals? If so, you're wrong. I'm an atheist and I'm certainly not a liberal.

[This message has been edited by Hare_Geist (edited 03-03-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by Hare_Geist:

Therefore, I have a reason for speaking out. I don't believe in hell, I don't believe in an afterlife, I don't believe in a God. I do believe in this life and that one should affirm this life, however, and if I see them fucking it up, then it would be stupid of me not to speak out.

PS, are you assuming that he is a liberal because he is an atheist, therefore implying all atheists are liberals? If so, you're wrong. I'm an atheist and I'm certainly not a liberal.





omg you people dont give it a rest! was i talking to you? No so be quite! and it was what he said that gave away that he was a lib.! and if your an athiest you shouldnt try and convert people seeing how converting has no purpose for a athiest, you all go to the same place, and thats in the ground!

quote:Originally posted by Masta Thief:

and if your an athiest you shouldnt try and convert people seeing how converting has no purpose for a athiest, you all go to the same place, and thats in the ground!

Wait ago to misunderstand what I was saying, jackass.

quote:Originally posted by Burger15:

why do athiests find it nessesary to go around telling people their stupid for beleiving in a supernatural entity, and even goto the extent of writing books and making gay videos to put on youtube about it, no one cares exept for fellow athiests, who are they trying to convince, theyre surely not going to convert anyone with a 5 minute video, if everyone kept THEIR opinions to THEIR self, athiests and religious fanatics alike this world would be a much better place

People write books and make gay videos because people need to see that the religious indoctrination they’ve been brought up in has another side that maybe they haven’t been exposed to yet. Plenty of folks are brought up without seeing the other side and yet doubt what they’ve been told, and sometimes they do come to the conclusion that belief in supernatural beings in which there is no evidence for doesn’t make a whole lot of sense through reading books and maybe even watching gay 5 minute videos.

This world wouldn’t be a better place if people kept their opinions to themselves as you suggest. It would be a better place if world leaders didn’t halt funding for stem cell research which could relieve the suffering of millions because they believe that a three day old collection of 150 cells has a soul. It would be a better place if these same leaders didn’t believe that worrying about pollution isn’t that important because the Bible teaches that God will maintain the Earth until Jesus returns. It would be a better place if fundamentalist idiots didn’t try to stop evolution from being taught in schools because it’s “just” a theory. It would be a better place if people didn’t hate ‘fags’ because they believe their god tells them to, and on, and on, and on.

quote:Originally posted by Masta Thief:

actually you are wrong! there is a REASON for religious people to try and convert others, so that person is not sent to hell! they are trying to save souls! but athiests do it in spite of the religions! there is no reason to convince someone there is no god! it doesnt affect anything and you acomplish nothing! so keep your piece of shit liberal athiest mouth shut!

One could make the point that atheists are trying to save people from a life of delusion and false hope.

quote:Originally posted by bobsled:

One could make the point that atheists are trying to save people from a life of delusion and false hope.



And have a good logic base, rather than a society based on paranoid bullshit. I say paranoid because people don't like the idea of accepting that there is nothing after death.

Not to mention that bullshit pisses us off. If you hear someone saying something totally wrong, you speak out, don't you? You're proving this simply by making this thread, and trying to convert atheists to your ideals.

quote:Originally posted by Burger15:

athiests are dumbNo, religious people who consider atheists the most mistrusted minority are the dumb ones.

Atheists identified as America’s most distrusted minority, according to new U of M study (http://tinyurl.com/p6npl)

quote:athiests are dumb

Can I just point out that the OP who said this said "the existence of us proves the existence of God" in another thread. The irony almost kills as much as the fact it is clear this guy needs some science and logic lessons.

A kid in my 2nd hour, who thinks he's got the world all figured out, just today shared his supreme enlightenment in telling us that "I don't care what you believe in so long as you don't push your beliefs onto others. That's the thing about atheists, is they hate religion, but they're pushier than any religion as far as their beliefs go." I was going to make a thread responding to this... and I've given it much thought... and my final conclusion is that the kid is a tool.

I'm going to be quite honest here, I do not completely agree that people should believe whatever they wish. I AM a strong believer in relative truths... however with that said, I cannot fully condemn the atheist for his "pushiness" when it comes to his lack of faith.

The Christian's "truth", sees the world as all part of God's master plan. Everything here, good and bad, loyalists and heretics, all are part of that big Lord guy working in his mysterious ways. Even the atheists, to this god, are part of his long term plan to do whatever the hell he will someday, but not yet do. In my eyes, and I imagine in the eyes of many atheists, this is a sort of extreme apathy... not caring about the perceived "bad" in this world, and a complete excuse to focus only on living a "good", moral life, accepting Jesus Christ as savior and getting into heaven where eternally shall be spent among friends and God.

However the "truth" in the atheist sense, is far different from this. Atheists lack the ability to be universally accepting, due to their lack of a being that ties everything together. In the eyes of an atheist, perceived good is good, and perceived bad is bad. One of the greatest "evils" (I use the term lightly) in most atheists' eyes, is the delusion and complete lack of evidence behind organized faith. No matter what I do, you get to go to your heaven. However when I die, my sense of truth shouts loudly that I'm going to be dead... and with that said it's THIS life I need to focus upon, and THIS life I need to make the most of.

It's with this attitude, I believe such a hate for religion is born. To see what a waste of time millions of people all over the world go through every single monotonous day... is enough to drive an atheist crazy. The towers of morals you Christians set up... ends up caging and putting off the only life I have to live. The moral code of Christianity, and other religions in other parts of the world... is something that effects everyone in the area. Your religious beliefs hold back human progress, whether it's genetic engineering, stem cell research, birth control, evolution and a basic understanding of how the world works, so on and so on. You're okay with holding back humanity, because you've got a nice seat waiting for you that's "holier than thou". I, on the other hand, have absolutely nothing (except truth, in my eyes)... and with that said you're attacking and restricting the ONLY world that matters to ME. The life you aim for, is right after death. However this is the life I am for, and a widespread system of morals that I don't believe in, shortchanging my time in this world... is enough to justify me being extremely pissed off.

An extreme and narrow example of this... but one that will get the point across, is a scenario with stem cell research. Let's say I, the atheist, have two kidneys that are rapidly shutting down... and unfortunately for me, I'm on the bottom of the waiting list for a new one.

In the next few weeks here, I'm going to DIE unless I somehow manage to get my hands on a new kidney that will work with my body. I know damn well this country has all the abilities in the world to clone kidneys and get me a new one... but because of widespread religious based morals... I'm not going to get the organ I need in order to stay alive, and live in the only world that I believe in.

A Christian in my shoes, even if they somehow managed to be pro stem cell research, would be comforted with god and the coming of heaven. However because I'm an atheist, my only time as a conscious being is being extremely cut short... I'm going to die a lot sooner than I could potentially live... all because of the moral systems set in place by this Christian nation.

This is just an example of how not only religion holds back human progress and knowledge... but at the same time can personally effect me in my one-time one-shot world. Religion in this sense is weighing me down... and the thought of where humanity could be these days without the existence of god, greatly troubles me since I know someone else's belief structure has caused me to miss out.

Another way an atheist could grow discontent with religion, and justify his pronounced discontent, would be in seeing the horrors and troubles it causes these days. Throughout history, so many wars... so many battles and horrible acts. All based on faith, and all, once again, holding the world back from where we could potentially be.

With such a strong newborn discontent with religion, atheists now perform step two, a step completely skipped by the mere definition of faith... evidence. In the world we live in, and one could argue only in this apparent world... the atheist has a much stronger argument for his belief structure than any Christian on the face of the planet. Using deductive reasoning, the atheist can piece together evolutionary history as well as a long variety of truths found by the useful tool we call science. The atheist basically disproves the Christian God, where as the Christian takes the word of a two thousand year old literary work.

What I'm trying to get to, in that whole paragraph, is basically that it's easier for an atheist to argue his beliefs. A guy who adds one rock plus one rock, and notices two rocks... is a lot more likely to go out and show others than the other guy, who merely has a hunch that one rock plus one rock equals three billion rocks. You can't show somebody to have a hunch... to have a leap of faith. But you sure as hell can show somebody a series of scientific/mathematic steps that basically proves one rock plus one rock, does in fact equal two rocks. I'm not saying that Christians consciously or subconsciously know that they're wrong or disproven... I'm just saying it's going to be less rare, because it's a lot harder of an argument to make... being based of faith rather than concrete observations. If Christians could mathematically prove that their God exists... then I bet you would sure as hell hear a lot more Christians attacking atheism.

Like Pinball Mcgruff said... another reason for this I'm sure has to do with the way atheists are perceived and treated. The first time I really noticed this was when I watched that CNN special on atheists being a minority... and watching the panel say what a horrible bunch of people we are. Looking into it more, newspapers, the ACLU, and a variety of sources had so many stories of atheists subjected, victimized, driven out of town, etc etc. It's really a horrible thing... and when you're virtually getting stepped on by really big shoes... it's a lot easier to get pissed and speak out, bypassing whatever says it's okay for people to believe what they want. Basically, that rule doesn't apply if what they believe, is shitting all over you.

Your second comment there, talking about the mere "existance of a god"... Very rarely in my life have a seen a god that is not tied into organized religion, not tied into a system of morals, and not tied into a belief structure that will constrict me from living freely in this one single world. Such a god rarely exists in people. However if I did come across a person, not a Christian or a Muslim or a Jew or a Hindu or a Pagan or a anything, that DID believe in a quiet god, who once went "kaboom" and created all matter physical laws... then you can bet this is not a person I would be attacking. This is where to me, I am proved that I do infact respect the beliefs of others. Even though I am avidly against some beliefs, and often worry maybe I'm close minded or too harsh on others... here I learn that the innocent beliefs that do not threaten my place in this world, such as this simple "deism", are completely acceptable and okay choices in my atheist eyes. Like stated by Hare Geist, I am not aware of any evidence that suggests such a god exists... I don't believe in him... it's a bit farfetched and I still think it's a dellusion. However in my eyes it's a dellusion that doesn't hurt me... and for if whatever reason they feel the need for that, then let them believe in their quiet and far distant god, that walked out on mankind long long ago.

And on a completely personal note... I am extremely fortunate that such a strong willed atheist movement exists. If it were not for loud and outspoken voices... forever would I have fallen victim to the "Preachers of Death."

There... I think that covers that.

quote:Originally posted by bobsled:

One could make the point that atheists are trying to save people from a life of delusion and false hope.

One could say Christians are trying to do the same.

quote:Originally posted by Kazz:



One of the greatest "evils" (I use the term lightly) in most atheists' eyes, is the delusion and complete lack of evidence behind organized faith.



There... I think that covers that.

What lack of evidence do you need? The fact is, with proof, there is no faith.

quote:Originally posted by Hare_Geist:

I’ve seen no evidence for God, therefore I do not believe in God. However, I have no problem with people’s religious beliefs as long as they do not appear to be fucking up the universe. Only then do I intervene and speak out.

What’s so dumb about that?

The fact that extremists and 14 year olds are shitting on the thin balance of equilibrium and peace between all parties.

I find Atheists to be the most annoying people in the world. I try not to befriend them, I often wear a cross around my neck and they give me this big spiel about how there has never been evidence of god etc etc etc.

If there was evidence of god, I wouldn't call Christianity my faith, because then it would be fact. That's the whole point of religion, it's FAITH!

Honestly, I don't care what you godless hippies believe. You're not going to convert me, so I kindly ask you to fuck off. I'm not trying to convert you, I'm not launching wars in the name of Jesus, so frankly, you have no reason to bother me, and I ask you to please not bother me with your bullshit.

By the way, atheists according to polls taken by people all over the world, you guys are the least trusted people in the world, in terms of business. Christians on the other hand are considered very trust worthy. Whether it's true or not, I WIN, you lose.

quote:Originally posted by Siash:

The fact that extremists and 14 year olds are shitting on the thin balance of equilibrium and peace between all parties.

So I shouldn't speak out if I think it is wrong that a small group of Christians are trying to have pseudo-science taught in science classes at all schools in America? And if I do, it's evident I'm an angsty 14 year old? http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

quote:Originally posted by FidelCastro:

I find Atheists to be the most annoying people in the world. I try not to befriend them, I often wear a cross around my neck and they give me this big spiel about how there has never been evidence of god etc etc etc.

You are aware right that you've probably met nice atheists, right? You just didn't know they were atheists because they weren't like the assholes who give you spiel because you wear a cross. Don't lump everyone together, please.

quote:Honestly, I don't care what you godless hippies believe.

I'm insulted that you would compare me to a hippy of all things.

quote:Whether it's true or not, I WIN, you lose.

I'm saw Jesus would be happy to know you're so happy over an act of discrimination going on in America.

quote:Originally posted by FidelCastro:

I find Atheists to be the most annoying people in the world.

Why? Because they believe differently than you? Now there's a fine example of non-tolerance and a denial of diversity. Why don't you just be blunt about it and admit outloud for God and everyone else to hear: "I feel superior to people who do not believe the same as I do" - and quit sugarcoating it?

quote: Honestly, I don't care what you godless hippies believe. You're not going to convert me, so I kindly ask you to fuck off. I'm not trying to convert you, I'm not launching wars in the name of Jesus, so frankly, you have no reason to bother me, and I ask you to please not bother me with your bullshit.

I will stop bothering with "bullshit" once your kind agrees to not permeate all aspects of your faith into schools, government and science. Then we can all leave well enough alone. I don't step foot into your churches blaspheming against your Creator, so please don't insert yourselves into my school systems, my government institutions and my judicial branches, attempting to make your God's law MY law.

quote: you guys are the least trusted people in the world, in terms of business. Christians on the other hand are considered very trust worthy. Whether it's true or not, I WIN, you lose.

Thank you. That was a beautiful example of a narrow mind, and a great showcase of bigotry by your kind.

You can find your substantial evidence of God's existence in third-world countries where the local population lives to slaughter the religious or ethnic minority. That's what happens when you let "holy" scruptures run your life. Strife, murder, senseless violence and an ever-degenerating society. Who needs to think when God can do all that for us? Who needs to make important life decisions when the best decision is already written down? Written down by men who created religion for no other reason than a highly-effective method of crowd and social damage control? Why don't you fools put down the trash, and read a real book before you call me dumb? The kind of book written by people who have dedicated their life to knowledge and actually achieved something?



=CK=

quote:Originally posted by FidelCastro:

I find Atheists to be the most annoying people in the world.

Kicking off with a generalization like that is a great way to make your opinion look worthless.

Polls are quite often meaningless. You can twist public opinion however you want and call it a statistic.

quote:Originally posted by FidelCastro:

Whether it's true or not, I WIN, you lose.

How do you win? This sounds like a false hope or delusion.

The following does not follow any specific religion, but an acknowledgement of a god in general

You worship God You dont

God Exists Eternal Happines Eternal Damnation

or the like or equivelent

God does not nothing nothing



which combination makes a person try to make other people think their way?

i dont like to feel obligated.

[This message has been edited by brad davis (edited 03-03-2007).]

if god exits, the people who worship goto "heavan" and those who dont goto "hell", if god does not, the people who worship go nowehre, and those who do not go nowhere,

who has the reason to try and get others to think like them



people seem to mix up extreamly intolerant conservative evangelicles and people who simply respect a super natural entity,

quote:Originally posted by Burger15:

if god exits, the people who worship goto "heavan" and those who dont goto "hell", if god does not, the people who worship go nowehre, and those who do not go nowhere,

If which God exists? They all have their own forms of punishment and reward. But if they're all wrong, what an incredible waste of life.

I have an interesting story. On the way home today I was told that I would burn in hell by one of your all loving God folk. I refused to give this dude money for some Baptist church choir, told him that I'm an atheist, and he turned around and told me that I am going to burn in hell. Happened right outside the church too. Maybe if religious people refrained from wishing us heretics an eternity of torture in hell, we'd ease off and not call you egoistical morons. This is what society is composed of. I didn't want to give this guy a dollar for his little singing group, and he wished me eternal torment. Real nice.

=CK=

how come there are no relegious people in the science forum bashing their ideas

quote:Originally posted by Hare_Geist:

About a week or two ago, I can't remember exactly, I was, well, let's say "fudge packing". And for three days afterwards, I didn't shit once, which was worrying. Then, however, a big pile came out. After that, I could go daily (with the exception of one day), but I would have trouble shitting and not as much as normal would come out. Today more has come out than what is normal for the last couple of days, but still not as much. So yeah, I'm a bit worried but I think I'm getting back to normal. I hope I'm getting back to normal.

Replies, please.

uhhhh....what the fuck...proof some people just like to talk, and need to shut the fuck up, maybe people think that your ideas about god are just as disgusting as this...

quote:Originally posted by phade:

The exact same thing can be said for religious people that try and convert others.

QFT

Fuck religion.

Its also really easy to offend people when dealing with there religion. Which is always fun. Plus the more people hear about other atheists out there the more they'll feel ok with expressing there disbelief for god.

there are millions of people who bullshit there belief in god because its just the normal thign to do, and there affraid of the bigotry they'll get if they say there atheist or agnostic, or simply just dont give a fuck.

I was talking to my friend who was raised christian about god. His mom was listening and it turned out she was actually an atheist and nobody knew. I helped her come out the closet



[This message has been edited by boozehound420 (edited 03-03-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by Burger15:

if everyone kept THEIR opinions to THEIR self, athiests and religious fanatics alike this world would be a much better place

There'd be even more fucked up shit going on.

Atheists are dumb? You didn't even spell atheist properly. Most of the greatest minds that ever walked the earth, that have changed the world substantially, have either been full out atheists, or have gone against the bible in their persuits for knowledge. Your precious USA would not have even been found if it wasn't for someone who doubted the bible.

I'm an atheist, and apart from discussions here on totse, I don't try and convert others through convincing arguements, I even respect others right to have a differing belief, even if I have no respect for the belief itself. If confronted in the non-virtual world, I will defend my opinion and have converted more than a dozen christians in doing so, but I won't start the arguement. Only a coward is unwilling to defend their belief system which they base their life around.

Actually, the real way I push my cause is by living a very fair and moral life with a universal respect for others. When I can, I do what I can to help others, I'm very kind, and I give excellent life advice to friends. I live such a desireable example of living that people actually ask me what church I go to, and are extremely surprised I have no religion. Instead, my beliefs are very complex beyond the regular atheist, I'll even go into intense discussion why all religions are wrong, but their is a thread of truth that they are based around. However, this isn't just some act and I don't force myself to live this way, I simply cannot live another way knowing what I know. However, by simply living, I automatically create feelings of doubt in the minds of believers. My way of life resembles the actions and thinking of Jesus himself, and the fact that I don't support the Christian religion troubles them and confuses them greatly. It tends to mess with ones head when it appears that someone is holier and more richeous, but doesn't support the church, and has no motivations of heaven and hell. This has even gone to the extent that people have even asked me if I am Christ or a profit. I just smile and say," you decide." I'm not anymore special than any other person on this planet and everything that makes others look up to me is well within their reach. It's as simple as observing the positive and negative factors playing on society and working to resolve the negatives to the best of our abilities. It's not about being right, it's about doing what is right for others. If everyone put others needs before their own, your own needs will be taken care of.

You know, it really makes one wonder why we divide ourselves based on beliefs, race, gender, and culture, when we have so many things like love, friendship, family, happyness, and the general love of life that is common to all people, that could unite all people.

If you think like this and truly believe this, examine the religious institutions around the world and decide for yourself if they are contributing positively by uniting us under the commonalities of humanity, or are they blinding the masses and furthering the division of humanity. If God exists, do you think he'd prefer ignorant division, or do you think he'd support tolerant unification of mankind. Remember, the number one sin pride. Whether your an athiest, moslem, christian, jewish, etc... Humble your beliefs and help unite us all.

I however believe that things have gone beyond repair and soon the division will result in all out chaos. I only hope that people will learn to look past what devides us and see what unites us.

^That was beautiful.

Reminds me of a scene that took place in my office not long ago. The people I work with daily, people I spend nearly 50 hours a week with, lunch with, occasionally do outside activities with, were equally flabbergasted when discussion turned to God one day.

I wasn't quick to volunteer my stance on the whole thing, but when pressed about it, admitted that I did not believe in a divine Being that governed the Universe. They looked at me with such disbelief and horror, you would have thought that I told them I worshipped insects.

One particularly religious co-worker asked me: "Then ... who do you pray to?" - and when I told her I didn't find prayer necessary, hugged me and (so help me) had tears in her eyes. They've never quite interacted with me the same since that day, and although I don't feel persecuted, I can see the utter confusion they harbour towards me.

They can't quite figure out how such a nice, clean-living, ordinary run-of-the-mill good person can be without God. The same woman who hugged me as a show of condolence later told me that she just assumed all people without God in their life led horrible, miserable, disorganized lives.

I am happy to be an example of the OPPOSITE of that assumption. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Burger15:

how come there are no relegious people in the science forum bashing their ideas

Its called "kansas"

It seems to me like no matter what one person says if its an atheist saying it they suck his dick and kiss up to him even if the sentence was barely coherent even if it is complete bull shit case in point is a couple of posts ago.

quote:Originally posted by SAMMY249:

It seems to me like no matter what one person says if its an atheist saying it they suck his dick and kiss up to him even if the sentence was barely coherent even if it is complete bull shit case in point is a couple of posts ago.

Quite like your own post then, in that respect.

A lack of punctuation, terrible grammar, and borderline incoherent--learn to convey your own ideas properly and maybe someone in the future will take them in with an ounce of respect.

quote:Originally posted by SAMMY249:

It seems to me like no matter what one person says if its an atheist saying it they suck his dick and kiss up to him even if the sentence was barely coherent even if it is complete bull shit case in point is a couple of posts ago.

Might you be referring to my post, SAMMY?

quote:Originally posted by Burger15:

uhhhh....what the fuck...proof some people just like to talk, and need to shut the fuck up, maybe people think that your ideas about god are just as disgusting as this...

You really don't make your religion look good when you act an ass, that has nothing to do with this debate and is a cheap attempt at tarring my name. You really do stoop low, don't you?

quote:Originally posted by Siash:

What lack of evidence do you need? The fact is, with proof, there is no faith.



You are right, and it was terrible word choice on my part. What I should have said, is that we atheists often see such delusion and lack in evidence in the religious conception of truth. Because the Christian's truth is based on faith, and ours is based on evidence... it often aggravates us when we see you spouting your "truth"... which is based off denying all logic and reason, and replacing it with some sort of blind faith.

(Don't get me wrong... I'm not all about logic and reason either. It's complicated. :P )

quote:Originally posted by bobsled:

One could make the point that atheists are trying to save people from a life of delusion and false hope.

no ones in delusion you fucking asshole! none of it changes anything. havnt like some great philosiphers said something about this shit like how horrible it would be with out religionor that man needs faith? i know some philosipher(older ones not ones new ones)or philosiphers have said stuff like that!

quote:Originally posted by Masta Thief:

no ones in delusion you fucking asshole! none of it changes anything. havnt like some great philosiphers said something about this shit like how horrible it would be with out religionor that man needs faith? i know some philosipher(older ones not ones new ones)or philosiphers have said stuff like that!



Older philosophies... like those so backwardsly arising from the Dark Ages? Well wouldn't it make sense that this people would be saying this shit... seeing as how they were surrounded in it and couldn't escape it? No... man does not need that sort of faith. And yes, Christianity is one HELL of a delusion. For even if there did exist a God out there... there is no chance in hell it would match the God of your imaginations that was spewed off in a two thousand year old book.

If you're going to be a fucking retard, don't enter the conversation. That is all.

Before you try to give some lecture on philosophy and "great philosiphers" that preach your side of the argument... you really owe it to yourself not to make you sound like an ass, and at least familiarize yourself with such philosophies. Unfortunately for you, most philosophy books you'll be looking for have big boy words, and probly don't come in "large text" form. :\

quote:Originally posted by Kazz:

Older philosophies... like those so backwardsly arising from the Dark Ages? Well wouldn't it make sense that this people would be saying this shit... seeing as how they were surrounded in it and couldn't escape it? No... man does not need that sort of faith. And yes, Christianity is one HELL of a delusion. For even if there did exist a God out there... there is no chance in hell it would match the God of your imaginations that was spewed off in a two thousand year old book.

If you're going to be a fucking retard, don't enter the conversation. That is all.

Before you try to give some lecture on philosophy and "great philosiphers" that preach your side of the argument... you really owe it to yourself not to make you sound like an ass, and at least familiarize yourself with such philosophies. Unfortunately for you, most philosophy books you'll be looking for have big boy words, and probly don't come in "large text" form. :\





ya well last time i rememberd my religion seemed to be the largest in the world while yours seems to almost be the size of a big cult ie. that homo that says he is the anti-christ!

quote:Originally posted by Masta Thief:

ya well last time i rememberd my religion seemed to be the largest in the world while yours seems to almost be the size of a big cult ie. that homo that says he is the anti-christ!

Argument Ad-Populum is a fallacy.

quote:Originally posted by Hare_Geist:

Argument Ad-Populum is a fallacy.

my bad you might have twice wat hes got!

quote:Originally posted by Masta Thief:

my bad you might have twice wat hes got!

You're either a troll or a retard. I can't decide which.

The question is what proof do they have that a god does not exist? Their usual response is to say what proof is that that it does. But they never into any futher explaination. They also complain about how preist do drisgusting things or crazy pastors are greedy and money grubbing, but that is just proof human indecency. if some of the greatest minds in history are athiest, does not proove anything, it proves that relegion limited their persuit of knowledge, so they pushed it aside or away completely. it would be expected for some of the greatest minds to be athiest, proves for a relgious diversity of the extreamly intellegent. your proof that god does not exist is that you are a happy person who does good things for others whithout faith? just proof a good person doesnt need the god the does exist, but they will be accepted into heavan or move up on the reincantional ladder anyway, for their good deeds.

quote:Originally posted by Hare_Geist:

You're either a troll or a retard. I can't decide which.

what? none of what i said is wrong!?!

quote:Originally posted by Burger15:

The question is what proof do they have that a god does not exist? Their usual response is to say what proof is that that it does.

Their response is right. If someone came up to you and said "there's a fox that flies around space, but every time you look at him, he vanishes", you would be mad to believe them without being provided some evidence. The same goes for God.

But I have looked at all the supposed evidence and arguments I could get my hands on, and I've considered believing in God, but all the arguments have failed completely and I don't like the idea of deceiving myself.

[This message has been edited by Hare_Geist (edited 03-04-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by Hare_Geist:

Their response is right. If someone came up to you and said "there's a fox that flies around space, but every time you look at him, he vanishes", you would be mad to believe them without being provided some evidence. The same goes for God.

But I have looked at all the supposed evidence and arguments I could get my hands on, and I've considered believing in God, but all the arguments have failed completely and I don't like the idea of deceiving myself.



that wasnt even the arguement that you originally protested to dumbass!

quote:Originally posted by Masta Thief:

that wasnt even the arguement that you originally protested to dumbass!

I was pointing out a fallacy in her argument, troll-boy.

quote:Originally posted by Masta Thief:

what? none of what i said is wrong!?!

It was wrong. I have this to show how stupid the ad-populum argument is: if you add up all the Hindus, all the Jews, all the Muslims, all the Sikhs, all the Buddhists, all the Atheists and everyone who does not believe in Christianity, then you will have more people who do not believe in Christianity than you will people who do. Via your logic, this proves Christianity is a false cult. We can do the same for every other religion and non-religion and, via your logic, this would prove them all wrong.

quote:Originally posted by Hare_Geist:

It was wrong. I have this to show how stupid the ad-populum argument is: if you add up all the Hindus, all the Jews, all the Muslims, all the Sikhs, all the Buddhists, all the Atheists and everyone who does not believe in Christianity, then you will have more people who do not believe in Christianity than you will people who do. Via your logic, this proves Christianity is a false cult. We can do the same for every other religion and non-religion and, via your logic, this would prove them all wrong.

disbelief is not a belief, though some do confuse the two.

if there is equal proof in the existance of god and nonexistance then what is wrong with relegious schools, if there are schools which teach religion people can simply not pay attention or not goto that school, we have the freedom of choice, why are you trying to take that away from them, i respect your choice to not beleive in god, so why dont you respect the choice of others to also, how does a person who chooses not to sin or do evil things because he thinks god is watching affecting you, do you want to do evil things? go ahead. but let those who wish to follow what they believe follow what they believe.

[This message has been edited by Burger15 (edited 03-04-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by Burger15:

disbelief is not a belief, though some do confuse the two.



It's not, no. But a definition of a cult is "of, for, or attracting a small group of devotees". If you add up all of humanity, Christianity is a cult.



[This message has been edited by Hare_Geist (edited 03-04-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by Hare_Geist:

It was wrong. I have this to show how stupid the ad-populum argument is: if you add up all the Hindus, all the Jews, all the Muslims, all the Sikhs, all the Buddhists, all the Atheists and everyone who does not believe in Christianity, then you will have more people who do not believe in Christianity than you will people who do. Via your logic, this proves Christianity is a false cult. We can do the same for every other religion and non-religion and, via your logic, this would prove them all wrong.

You know why you athiests are despised? its because you always try and prove christianity wrong! but yet you try and be respectful to other religions and cultures! pollitical corectness bull shit!

1. every religion in numbers out beats your numbers. not together but alone

2.My logic trumps yours seeing as to you have prolly less than 1% of the worlds population the rest of the 15% are scientoligist, unkown or not answered for, agnostics, cults, satanism. if you wanna make it more fair do 16/6! which equals to about 2.6 %of the population! and mine is 33% with the closest follower being islam at 21%! alot behind

3. muslims are behind by a whole billion plus!

quote:if there is equal proof in the existance of god and nonexistance then what is wrong with relegious schools, if there are schools which teach religion people can simply not pay attention or not goto that school, we have the freedom of choice, why are you trying to take that away from them, i respect your choice to not beleive in god, so why dont you respect the choice of others to also, how does a person who chooses not to sin or do evil things because he thinks god is watching affecting you, do you want to do evil things? go ahead. but let those who wish to follow what they believe follow what they believe.

OK, let me explain. I have nothing against a school that teaches religion, as long as it is not funded by the public. A public school is a government school and therefore should keep separation of church and state. As well as this, the concept of God is not scientific and Creationism is pseudo-science, to teach it in science classes would be intellectually dishonest, a corruption of the scientific method and to lie to school children.

As for religion not effecting people, it does. Extremist Islam and the Crusades are prime examples.

quote:Originally posted by Masta Thief:

You know why you athiests are despised? its because you always try and prove christianity wrong! but yet you try and be respectful to other religions and cultures! pollitical corectness bull shit!

Who is talking about political correctness? I leave any religion alone if I don't think it is fucking up the world. I think Christianity is, so I speak out against it.

quote:1. every religion in numbers out beats your numbers. not together but alone

Atheism isn't a religion, nor do I care if it is outnumbered. My argument was to prove the fallacy of the ad-populum argument.

The rest of your post simply proves you're an idiot: http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

[This message has been edited by Hare_Geist (edited 03-04-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by Hare_Geist:

Atheism isn't a religion, nor do I care if it is outnumbered. My argument was to prove the fallacy of the ad-populum argument.

The rest of your post simply proves you're an idiot: ht tp://www.a dherents.c om/Religions_By_Adherents.html (http: //www.adhe rents.com/ Religions_ By_Adheren ts.html)





you dont even remember what i said!

quote:Originally posted by Masta Thief:

you dont even remember what i said!

Yes I do.

quote:Originally posted by Hare_Geist:

As for religion not effecting people, it does. Extremist Islam and the Crusades are prime examples.

religion did not drive them to that, evil did, i already said and evil person can be religious or not religious. what about the countles religous people who arent evil...

also, it is know that hare_geist is a homosexual, i have no deal with them, i consider them to be equal, and deserve and support criticism as like any other human, wouldn't a homosexual find consonance in the fact that god created them that way. science would say that homosexuality is a brain disease or chemical imbalance.

why are we being concerned with people being intellectually dishonest, why cant a person beleive what they want, if they chose to deny logic and reason beleive in creationism, they can. and if someone wants to beleive in athiesm they can, as i said opening this topic, people need to keep to themelves, but i need to clear it up as , people need to keep woth themsleves with issues that do not affect them. becuase earleir someone inferred that by me saying that i somehow deny civil rights or free speech or something dumb.



[This message has been edited by Burger15 (edited 03-04-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by Hare_Geist:

Yes I do.

No wonder, your a homo! thats why you hate christianity, because we tell you what your doing is wrong! your just and upset little brat! aw poor baby!

fuck of fag!

quote:Originally posted by Masta Thief:

No wonder, your a homo! thats why you hate christianity, because we tell you what your doing is wrong! your just and upset little brat! aw poor baby!

fuck of fag!

Actually, Christianity doesn't say being homosexual is wrong, it says acting upon it is wrong. Love the sinner, hate the sin. You're not exactly a prime example of Jesus's teachings, are you?

[This message has been edited by Hare_Geist (edited 03-04-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by Burger15:

religion did not drive them to that, evil did, i already said and evil person can be religious or not religious. what about the countles religous people who arent evil...

I disagree entirely, but for me to explain why would require another thread because I can imagine it causing a long discussion.

quote:also, it is know that hare_geist is a homosexual, i have no deal with them, i consider them to be equal, and deserve and support criticism as like any other human, wouldn't a homosexual find consonance in the fact that god created them that way. science would say that homosexuality is a brain disease or chemical imbalance.

I'm sorry? It's not common knowledge that I'm a homosexual, because I'm not. I'm bisexual. As for science, it does not say that whatsoever. They reckon there could be a gay-gene (which doesn't bother me whatsoever), but that's about all science has said on the topic.

quote:why are we being concerned with people being intellectually dishonest, why cant a person beleive what they want, if they chose to deny logic and reason beleive in creationism, they can. and if someone wants to beleive in athiesm they can, as i said opening this topic, people need to keep to themelves, but i need to clear it up as , people need to keep woth themsleves with issues that do not affect them. becuase earleir someone inferred that by me saying that i somehow deny civil rights or free speech or something dumb.

I said nothing about them not being allowed to believe in Creationism. It's their decision, not mine. What I am saying is that it should not be taught in science classes in public schools because it is not science, it is pseudo-science.

so do you have a brain disease/chemical imbalance or is that how god decided to make you

quote:Originally posted by Burger15:

so do you have a brain disease/chemical imbalance or is that how god decided to make you

Did you not read what I said? "As for science, it does not say that whatsoever. They reckon there could be a gay-gene (which doesn't bother me whatsoever), but that's about all science has said on the topic."

whos teaching creationism in this day and age...its not the middle ages, you can still acknowledge a supernatural entity and not be spreading mythological lies and trying to harm those who do not comply, an intelligent person can either beleive in god or not, like atheists say, theres equal proof for existance and nonexistance, so what makes an atheist so much smarter than a religious person.

im not a genious but i dont se how this "gay gene" get spassed on if gays typically do not have biological children because the anatomy of their lover does not allow it...

[This message has been edited by Burger15 (edited 03-04-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by Burger15:

whos teaching creationism in this day and age...

Very few. The problem is that they're trying to force schools to teach it as science.

quote:its not the middle ages, you can still acknowledge a supernatural entity and not be spreading mythological lies and trying to harm those who do not comply, an intelligent person can either beleive in god or not, like atheists say, theres equal proof for existance and nonexistance, so what makes an atheist so much smarter than a religious person.

I never said you couldn't acknowledge a supernatural entity, nor did I say you're smarter because you're an atheist. In fact, one of my favourite philosophers is a Kierkegaard and I'd say he's smarter than some atheists out there.

You really have to stop putting words in my mouth.

quote:Originally posted by Burger15:

im not a genious but i dont se how this "gay gene" get spassed on if gays typically do not have biological children because the anatomy of their lover does not allow it...

You're probably not as not gay and you think you aren't.

quote:Originally posted by Burger15:

religion did not drive them to that, evil did, i already said and evil person can be religious or not religious. what about the countles religous people who arent evil...

I forgot about the EVIL people. Those bastards! Now I see what you're saying... HAhaha.

quote:Originally posted by Burger15:



im not a genious but i dont se how this "gay gene" get spassed on if gays typically do not have biological children because the anatomy of their lover does not allow it...



Read about the genetics of cystic fibrosis.

-Kooper

quote:Originally posted by Burger15:

why do athiests find it nessesary to go around telling people their stupid for beleiving in a supernatural entity, and even goto the extent of writing books and making gay videos to put on youtube about it, no one cares exept for fellow athiests, who are they trying to convince, theyre surely not going to convert anyone with a 5 minute video, if everyone kept THEIR opinions to THEIR self, athiests and religious fanatics alike this world would be a much better place



Hate us all you want, you ignorant person, but you should never, EVER call someone else's religion dumb. It shows how shallow minded you really are. We don't go around posting forums saying JEWS SUCK LAWL or CHRISTIANITY IS 4 GAY PPL!!11!

I've never in my life seen atheists try to convert christians, or any other religion for that matter, it's always the other way around. But the reason why we would is because we find something in that religion that makes us happy, and want to pass it on. Because frankly, I'm happier not believing in a god. I think a lot of peole unconsiously live in fear all their lives of this God that as yet to show itself.

I could rant further, but you get the point.

1. atheism is not a religion.

2. please don't say "we", because you most certainly do not speak for me.

quote:Originally posted by Hare_Geist:

1. atheism is not a religion.

2. please don't say "we", because you most certainly do not speak for me.

My mistake, I caught that, too. It's a lack thereof.

It would be ok to believe whatever you want. As long as you follow your heart. That voice inside. Not the loud one but the quiet one. The one that says "will be done".

Read the bible...Really they were just humans...We could write our own bible. The benefits of this one is the intellect you acquire through interpretation of the Old English or King James Version.

The bible says. Here is a grand way to live. How can it be such things are such. Prehistorically. You'll find faith then.

It's funny how the same person who created a thread titled "atheists are dumb" has the nerve to spout off hypocrisies like:

i respect your choice to not beleive in god, so why dont you respect the choice of others

http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

And what is the point of targeting someone's sexuality? Cheap shot. Weak argument.

as i said opening this topic, people need to keep to themelves, but i need to clear it up as , people need to keep woth themsleves with issues that do not affect them.

As someone's sexuality does not affect you in any way, you need to practice what you preach, Burger15.

quote:Originally posted by Burger15:

disbelief is not a belief, though some do confuse the two.

if there is equal proof in the existance of god and nonexistance then what is wrong with relegious schools, if there are schools which teach religion people can simply not pay attention or not goto that school, we have the freedom of choice, why are you trying to take that away from them, i respect your choice to not beleive in god, so why dont you respect the choice of others to also, how does a person who chooses not to sin or do evil things because he thinks god is watching affecting you, do you want to do evil things? go ahead. but let those who wish to follow what they believe follow what they believe.



My belief is that the entire universe came from one giant anus crapping everything out. Should this be taught in schools? It is my belief after all.

My belief is that my religion requires me to rape every little girl I see. Should I be able to follow my beliefs?

Beliefs should not be something that are kept secret with a social stigma surrounding them preventing them from scrutiny. Every belief of any kind should be put out in the open to be scrutinized, ridiculed, or even praised based upon what that belief entails. Not all beliefs are equal, nor should they all be treated the same just because someone slaps the name of religion on it, and that you need to understand.

Religion has infested politics in the United States, and it sure as hell affects me, so I speak out against it.

[This message has been edited by bung (edited 03-04-2007).]

Who said anything about evidence that supports god? The only evidence you could cite is that the universe itself is composed of a singular energy and everything is formed and functions based around this energy's properties. That wall in front of you, just energy forming gyroscopic atoms, forming melecules, and we see it as solid because our eyes have adapted too. The real world actually looks like the matrix except its not code, but energy doing cycles. However, all existence is the same energy, time doesn't exist cause the universe is composed of flowing energy, which moves faster than light so no time passes. Reality is actually comprised of the same things as your dreams, making them essentially real, however only to your conscience. The universe has all-knowledge since all mathematical possibilities exist simultaneousely. It's omnipresent cause the energy forms everything, us, the air, etc... so we are constantly sorrounded and composed of it. It's also omniscient since from any given point, everything that can result from the present can be mathematically predicted do to limiting factors.

However, this does not point to a being of conscience, one that meddles or puts causes into effect to perpetuate a reaction. The system simply functions. We ourselves can change our reality from the inside, but there is no proof of any change coming from outside the system. The system is logical, can be defined mathematically, so therefore has no outside acting forces or it would litterally not equal out and our reality would collapse. Even if such a god did exist, he does nothing and changes nothing, as the system functions as it should and it's up to us to live in peace, or live in a hell we've self-created. This also means that there is also no proof of any being existing at all since there are no proofs of outside interference. You can have faith in such a god, but reality points the fact that a god isn't necessary to the system at all, and most likely does not exist except in the minds of theists.

However, there is an explaination for beings such as Jesus, which Christians have formed a religion around his teachings. Since the system is composed of energy and has a specific method of function, it's mathematically predictable that eventually a being will exist that will be able to see the systems function beyond the regular persons abilities. However, since this knowledge would just come to that person without effort, its easy to understand how such a being would assume a higher power putting such thinking in his head considering the knowledge of that time. Many of these people have come along since Jesus and before Jesus, however not all have the depth of understanding that Jesus likely had. Jesus is like a perfections within the system, and this is a rarety. People with this similar knowledge created the Bible. I can explain the tribulation, which isn't an act of god, but it's likely to happen based on mathematical predictability.

No matter how you try and use science to prove there is a god, you will fail, and the only thing you can prove is the interconnectivity through a sharing of a unified energy. This is not enough to form a religion around, and the past Christ will not be as good as the one who will come next as more knowledge will be available to him and his thinking will become more absolute since more history and whats been done can be taken into his decision making. Religion will likely be defunked and not nullified upon the return of the next perfect being.

Bi-sexuality is actually quite normal for people if we were to be left unchecked by a cultural stigma around such a lifestyle. The human body is even designed for homosexuality as multiple nerve endings and even a male G-spot exist within the rectum. The main contributing factor of wether someone makes the choice to engage in some acts is determined by personal beliefs which are often determined by upbringing. Basically if you were told it was normal, you'd be bi too, but because your told its gross and nasty, you are more reluctant to try such things.

quote:Originally posted by Hare_Geist:

1. atheism is not a religion.

2. please don't say "we", because you most certainly do not speak for me.



Shut up fag! i already owned you get the fuck out! i dont care if you say your bi you fuck a guy your a homo.!.

Masta, your astoundingly stupid, you must actually be trained to avoid thinking.

How the fuck did you end up the way you are?

From looking at the way religion was used to fund the wealthy man's pockets during less enlightened times, one could understand only too well the desire to wipe god from the depths of one's mind.

It goes deeper - people used religion as a means to scare others - e.g; you're going to hell, jesus died for our sins, etc.

I actually think the idea is (or was) to make people 'God-fearing' in order to trap them into a mindset where they cannot accept the opinions of others - for fear of being sent to hell/committing sin.

Naturally, anyone who did voice their beliefs could end up being lynched - medieval style.



However, we're discussing this as it exists today, so what have 400 years of human education taught us about religion?

I for one believe that religion is overused as an excuse to wage war on one another, and i believe that this is the current moral motivation behind atheism.

Religion in it's very context is a belief that can cause some to think they're 'better' than the non-believer, thus causing inequality.



I'm all in favour of atheism, but that doesn't stop me from learning about other cultures and religion.

Btw, Atheism IS a religion, the simple fact that Atheism can be discussed in the context of Atheism > [insert religion here] proves that.

The one thing that sets atheism apart from other religions is that it isn't based on what some other dude decided was the correct meaning of what his god told him, it's based on moral principles and a logical understanding of the universe rather.

quote:Originally posted by Burger15:

The question is what proof do they have that a god does not exist? Their usual response is to say what proof is that that it does. But they never into any futher explaination. They also complain about how preist do drisgusting things or crazy pastors are greedy and money grubbing, but that is just proof human indecency. if some of the greatest minds in history are athiest, does not proove anything, it proves that relegion limited their persuit of knowledge, so they pushed it aside or away completely. it would be expected for some of the greatest minds to be athiest, proves for a relgious diversity of the extreamly intellegent. your proof that god does not exist is that you are a happy person who does good things for others whithout faith? just proof a good person doesnt need the god the does exist, but they will be accepted into heavan or move up on the reincantional ladder anyway, for their good deeds.

The burden of proof lies with the believers.

Almost all of my life I have been a closet atheist. Especially since I was a Boyscout. I sidestepped the "god" question in my Eagle board of review. Atheism is more ethically, morally, and logically acceptable to me than some sky being. I am currently reading "The God Delusion". It is a really good book with a slight sense of humor. It puts everything in perspective and helps me stand up and defend myself. Lately I have gained a liking for debate. Last semester almost daily I demolished some Bible thumping girls in argument. You can't cite the Bible as the supreme source of morals and laws if you wear wool cotton blends, or eat pork.

Does anyone else notice the wide dichotomy between the grammar and punctuation of Atheists and the believers? Maybe they should of payed more attention to their English teachers instead of the well dressed man fleecing them of their money every Sunday.



[This message has been edited by inuteroteen (edited 03-05-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by One_way_mirror:

Btw, Atheism IS a religion, the simple fact that Atheism can be discussed in the context of Atheism > [insert religion here] proves that.



First of all, atheism is not a religion.

And that is a horrible analogy you have there. That's like me saying, "Apple > peanut butter sandwich, so therefore, a peanut butter sandwich is a fruit."

Like I've seen many others here say: If atheism is a religion, then not collecting rocks is a hobby of mine.

quote:Originally posted by bung:

First of all, atheism is not a religion.

And that is a horrible analogy you have there. That's like me saying, "Apple > peanut butter sandwich, so therefore, a peanut butter sandwich is a fruit."

Like I've seen many others here say: If atheism is a religion, then not collecting rocks is a hobby of mine.

You're taking it out of context, the context in which i had it was that Atheism would be used in a discussion over whether one religion was better than another, because of the fact that it is a belief structure.

You BELIEVE in science, do you not?

quote:You BELIEVE in science, do you not?

You don't need to believe in science to be an atheist. Atheism is simply the belief there is no God. It can be combined with all sorts of religions or no religions. It is not a religion although it could be a tenet or a disbelief held within a religion.

quote:Originally posted by Hare_Geist:

You don't need to believe in science to be an atheist. Atheism is simply the belief there is no God. It can be combined with all sorts of religions or no religions. It is not a religion although it could be a tenet or a disbelief held within a religion.



So it is neither a religion nor not a religion, is that what you're saying?

quote:Originally posted by One_way_mirror:



So it is neither a religion nor not a religion, is that what you're saying?

I'm saying its a disbelief in God and nothing else. It's clearly not a religion, but can be a tenet within a religion.

A religion is: "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs." and "a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion." (dictionary.com)

All atheism says is that there is no God, which also implies the universe was not created by a God. You can belong to a religion or not belong to a religion and have that one disbelief, that disbelief itself, however, is not a religion.

[This message has been edited by Hare_Geist (edited 03-05-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by Hare_Geist:

I'm saying its a disbelief in God and nothing else. It's clearly not a religion, but can be a tenet within a religion.

A religion is: "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs." and "a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion." (dictionary.com)

All atheism says is that there is no God, which also implies the universe was not created by a God. You can belong to a religion or not belong to a religion and have that one disbelief, that disbelief itself, however, is not a religion.



So one could, infact choose to believe in the christian god, but not the tenets of christianity?

EDIT: Some people (probably christians) would have issues with that.

[This message has been edited by One_way_mirror (edited 03-05-2007).]

Here's a big list of my updated responses:

Although it's fair to say that Masta Thief has proven himself retarded to atheists and christians alike, I feel the need to express another flaw in his Ad-Populum, even though Hare Geist already covered it.

When Martin Luther noticed the poor ethics of indulgences, and various practices of the Christian church, he picked up the hammer and nailed up his 97 theses. This pissed the Christians off, he was one against a thousand. Was he wrong?

When Galileo stated so boldly that the earth revolved around the sun, he was one against a thousand. Were the thousand right?

Hell, when the teachings of JESUS CHRIST were spreading around Jerusalem and the Roman Empire, these new "Christians" were such a minority that it was socially acceptable to round them up and put them in coliseums to feed to the lions. Surely if the majority felt that Christianity was no more than a cult... you would agree that Christianity is wrong, yes?

Your logic is so unsound, it should make you sick to your stomach. What you're proposing would create a world with absolutely zero human progress. Never questioning the majority. Always following authority. You're kind of thought is what murders any sort of improvement or social development.

When you go to the store, the colorful bottle of dishwasher soap, is no better than the generically bottled dishwasher soap. More people buy the colorful bottle, because soap A has way better advertisement. It's not how true something is, that makes people believe it... It's how you market it.

Your faith promises an afterlife of eternal bliss, and an excuse for all sin and mistake. You may be useless and pathetic in THIS world, but in the next you're going to be very very important... and your misery was all about God's master plan.

Is this not the most genius marketing technique, our world has ever seen?

Hare Geist is a homo...? Big deal! I never knew this, and it doesn't change my opinion of the guy the slightest or most minute bit. It does not for one second weaken his argument... )which still remains solid and unsuccessfully challenged). Also, if you could remove your mind from your faith, and see no evil or vice in homo(bi)sexuality... what crime would it then be to be a homosexual?

And the argument that science calls homosexuality a "brain-disease" versus religion... I know very little on this subject, but that doesn't mean I won't provide useful input. I read the correction saying that it's a "gay gene" and not a "brain-disease"... but even if it was, what would that change?! Something does not lose it's truth, just because it's harsh on the ears. By your logic, since I don't like the fact that starving children in Africa die in much pain, I should believe that they are happy and having always having fun? Your flawed logic however, explains your source of faith. Dying and ceasing to exist does not sound very nice... but this heaven place sure sounds like a blast. That makes it real? http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

And no, contrary to popular belief, atheism is not a religion. There is nothing spiritual about atheism... and like stated, not collecting stamps is by no means a hobby.

And as "bad" as this sounds, it is the way I feel... Like bung stated, not all beliefs are equal. There's just too many fucking whack jobs out there.



[This message has been edited by Kazz (edited 03-05-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by One_way_mirror:

So one could, infact choose to believe in the christian god, but not the tenets of christianity?

EDIT: Some people (probably christians) would have issues with that.

There's more than one religion. For example, you can be a Buddhist and still be a theist or an atheist. As for Christianity, I have heard that there are atheist Christians who simply follow the moral teachings of Christ. In face, Thomas Jefferson wrote a Bible for people just like that and really, who cares what the other Christians think? They don't own alternative Christian beliefs.

quote:Originally posted by One_way_mirror:

So one could, infact choose to believe in the christian god, but not the tenets of christianity?

EDIT: Some people (probably christians) would have issues with that.



yes, what about christianity is actually from the mouth of god, none, all of it is second hand accounts of what christ has said, selected memories. why should one live by the bible? jesus said so many things that to try to live up to him would be impossible.

one should not lose their faith due to what cant be explained to them in a bible, or any other sort of ancient human book, you need to experience god in the now to fully have faith, you cannot deny god due to what ancient humans wrote so many years ago. those books are just guides to finding god in any sort of way, all of which are created through culture, choose your path and pursu it and you will find god. Does it make sense that a supreme being would only have 1 child or prophet, or heavan for people or hell for another. its plans are infinately complex.

I don't deny the existence of God because of ancient religions. It is pretty evident that even if God existed, all those religions are man made. I deny God exists because I've seen no evidence for his existence.

quote:Originally posted by Masta Thief:



Shut up fag! i already owned you get the fuck out! i dont care if you say your bi you fuck a guy your a homo.!.

You claim your religious, yet you are the most offensive fowled-mouth poster in this forum. You're hateful and cruel. Jesus is ashamed of you and the entire Christian faih is ashamed of you.

quote:Originally posted by phade:

The exact same thing can be said for religious people that try and convert others.

quote:Originally posted by Burger15:

why do athiests find it nessesary to go around telling people their stupid for beleiving in a supernatural entity, and even goto the extent of writing books and making gay videos to put on youtube about it, no one cares exept for fellow athiests, who are they trying to convince, theyre surely not going to convert anyone with a 5 minute video, if everyone kept THEIR opinions to THEIR self, athiests and religious fanatics alike this world would be a much better place

YOU'RE A FUCKING MORON. god damn.

you religious fanatics are the assholes that ruin the world. with your massive 'integrity' as a whole, you can wreak more havoc than satan on judgement day.

for one thing, atheists generally tend to keep their mouths shut; because any true atheist will tell you that opening your mouth brings you a world unwarranted and unwanted trouble. especially if you should find yourself amongst an ignorant mass of individual school students.

for two, we are generally humble, kaniving, and mischevous. we don't tend to cause a lot of trouble out right. because we would prefer to draw attention away from our 'negative' activities. point remains that atheists don't cause a lot of shit.

unless they're assholes, and still probably believe in god.

What do you mean by true atheists? Arn't Atheists just a lable for people who don't believe in a higher power? It's not organized and if it becomes oganized then that's just like religion becoming oganized and organizations always spread their message.

"point remains that atheists don't cause a lot of shit.

unless they're assholes, and still probably believe in god."

What are you talking about? If an Atheist was causing shit it would be an Atheist causing shit it wouldn't be an Atheist who still believed in God because that can't exsist.

quote:Originally posted by yango wango:

It's not organized and if it becomes oganized then that's just like religion becoming oganized and organizations always spread their message.

http://www.the-brights.net

You just have to appreciate the sheer pretentiousness of it. I subscribe.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

quote:Originally posted by AngryFemme:

Originally posted by yango wango:

It's not organized and if it becomes oganized then that's just like religion becoming oganized and organizations always spread their message.

http://www.the-brights.net

You just have to appreciate the sheer pretentiousness of it. I subscribe.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)



I'm also a bright! I dont consider it a religion if your organized. Yango - You would call a group of atheists a religion. Do you consider humanists groups a religion?

quote:Originally posted by boozehound420:

I'm also a bright!

\m/

humanists are a religion

it's one of the false religions

quote:Originally posted by mustache rider:

humanists are a religion

You're like a homophobe with latent homosexuality, as is every other religionist who pronounces "but yours is a RELIGION TOO".

BECACUSE IT IS, AND YOU'RE AN IDIOT IN DENIAL

AND I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE RIVER IN EGYPT!

quote:Originally posted by mustache rider:

BECACUSE IT IS, AND YOU'RE AN IDIOT IN DENIAL

AND I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE RIVER IN EGYPT!

I'm not a humanist.

you're still an idiot though, and a sinner

quote:Originally posted by Hare_Geist:

I’ve seen no evidence for God, therefore I do not believe in God. However, I have no problem with people’s religious beliefs as long as they do not appear to be fucking up the universe. Only then do I intervene and speak out.

What’s so dumb about that?

Read 'The God Theory' by Bernard Haisch

There is some evidence, I'm not going to try to sit here and post for you to join a relion, I jsut think you should read up on the matter at hand. I'm not saying that you have to believe everything in the Bible or go to church every sunday. Just do some research.

quote:Originally posted by GrtZ:

Read 'The God Theory' by Bernard Haisch

Care to give me some of this evidence?

quote:Just do some research.

I'm honestly insulted that you think I haven't, because I have. This whole "no God thing" poses a big problem for me, but I can't make myself make a leap of faith.

quote:Haisch has advocated the serious scientific study of phenomena outside the traditional scope of science and is known for his interest in the UFO phenomenon as well as a variety of other unorthodox topics.

Yeah, he sounds real trust worthy...

[This message has been edited by Hare_Geist (edited 03-11-2007).]

Atheists are just as thick as theists.

quote:Originally posted by Drefetr:

Atheists are just as thick as theists.

Such a sweeping statement, insulting all of those millions upon millions of theists and atheists' intelligence.

quote:Originally posted by Hare_Geist:

Such a sweeping statement, insulting all of those millions upon millions of theists and atheists' intelligence.

That was my goal. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Hare_Geist:

Yeah, he sounds real trust worthy...





Haisch has a doctorate in Atrophysics and has worked with people such as Steven Hawking. Along with many other well known scientists. Haisch of course has views that I dont agree with in his books, I admit. But what he says adds up in the physics and the logic behind how we were created and what we really are. He's a respectible sciencist. I know you Aitheists like your scientific data.

I'd say go pick it up its only like 12 bucks on Amazon, even if you think hes full of shit, read it anyhow.

quote:I'd say go pick it up its only like 12 bucks on Amazon, even if you think hes full of shit, read it anyhow.

I don't have a lot of money and am currently jobless, so why don't you make a thread about his arguments if you've read his book?

quote:Originally posted by Hare_Geist:

I don't have a lot of money and am currently jobless, so why don't you make a thread about his arguments if you've read his book?

Lol, becasue I don't have to make an arguement. I'll believe what ever I want, and you will too.

But, there is that place called the library where you can go and they have these things call...what are they called....books! That you dont even have to check out to read. You don't have a job, so maybe instead of trolling forums go pick it up.

quote:Originally posted by GrtZ:

Lol, becasue I don't have to make an arguement. I'll believe what ever I want, and you will too.

But, there is that place called the library where you can go and they have these things call...what are they called....books! That you dont even have to check out to read. You don't have a job, so maybe instead of trolling forums go pick it up.



I'm not trolling. My library is shit and you have to pay a heck of a lot for them to order in any books.

I dunno why you wont make a thread telling what he said, because I'm sure loads of people will find it interesting.

The Religious

-Have caused the deaths of millions of lives throughout recorded history.

-Constantly knock on people's doors, trying to convert them to their religion.

-Focus on the future, rather than the present. This causes our world to turn to shit.

-Use violence when they think their religion is being 'threatened'. An example would be those idiots who like blowing up abortion clinics. Killing more people doesn't solve the killing of people.

-Throw fits each time one of their symbols is removed from the public. An example would be "In God We Trust" on the US dollar bills. If that were taken off the currency, they'd all throw a fit claiming that they're being "threatened" and "discriminated", but if "In Allah We Trust" were to be ammended to the currency, they'd still throw a fit.

-Teach their children that science isn't real. And yes, I have had very religious friends who's parents taught them that science taught in school was false.

-Pretend like most people in the world are part of their religion, when in reality, probably only 10% of the world is a part of their religion.

-Constantly break the rules of their religion, so long as they feel that it's justified.

The Atheists

-Don't go knocking door to door.

-Don't give a shit about what others believe.

-Haven't caused the deaths of countless people for thousands of years.

-Encourage people do believe whatever they want to.

-Don't blindly believe what they are taught.

-Only care about what's for dinner.

[This message has been edited by Mutant Funk Drink (edited 03-12-2007).]

sigh, why does some body always have to be right? Perhaps god exists, perhaps god doesn't exist. but there has been for me no way to prive that as of yet. know people are ging on about " athiests are the least rustworthy people" and shit like that. i dont try to judge people and when i meet people my opinions are formed on them and not the belief systems or religon.

i know muslims and hindu's who are a damm sight bette than some christians i know. saying that many athiests and agnostics are better than others. like i said it is the person not the religion.

although my self am an athiest, i do totally understnad why people can belive in a god. although to me i dont.

not as dumb as u though...