Sitting around idle all day with nothing better to do than bang your 42 virgins?

What's the purpose of this life?

quote:Originally posted by MasterPython:

What's the purpose of this life?

pass on our genes to further the species. And have a blast while doing.

The purpose of the after-life is to comfort people who are affraid of death. A christian once told me you have no emotion in heaven, something about the inability to do evil once in heaven therfor you dont have emotion. Sounds pretty fucken stupid to me. I'd rather hang out in hell.

To give you a feeling of worth in this world, and to make people thousands of years ago be okay with the fact that they would never amount to jack shit in their life. It's a lot easier to play nice and be content following rules, when you have a big ice-cream sundae waiting for you after school.

Blessed are the meek. What a fucking scam.

quote:Originally posted by boozehound420:

pass on our genes to further the species. And have a blast while doing.

The purpose of the after-life is to comfort people who are affraid of death. A christian once told me you have no emotion in heaven, something about the inability to do evil once in heaven therfor you dont have emotion. Sounds pretty fucken stupid to me. I'd rather hang out in hell.

Life is about more then having fun and reproducing. Our connection to the earth? Our effect on other people? Building a society? Destroying a society? Documenting the building/downfall of this society? Teaching? Learning? Loving? Hating? Furthering our species has alot more to do with just passing on our genes it's building a society for our children to live in and preparing them for that society and their effect on it.

The purpous of the after life serves more of a purpous then comforting people don't you think? I can't tell you waht it is. The afterlife is the biggest mystery of the human race. Really it's the big fucking question. What happens when you die? Of course all scientific evidince points to humans just dying and nothing happening however don't you think it's possible that this energy that flows through our bodies is recycled in nature just as all other natural things are return to the earth? Do you think one day someone just invented religions to control the masses of people? No it's based on the words of extremely wise men. Something overlooked alot now because the religion has been hijacked from the intial spoken words of these so called prophets. It doesn't matter if you think these people are wrong they were wise and spoke a truth enough to effect a multitude of people for centuries to come. So it's not like they were just spouting off a bunch of bullshit to control people in fact quite the opposite alot of these people like Jesus had no urge to control people in fact quite the opposite they are egoless and care about the greater good of the human race more then their own lives. Religious or not that is honoroable and Jesus was probably one of the biggest rebels in the history of man. Christianity at one time was completly revolutionary. So what these people had to say about the afterlife and what countless Monks Buddhist and others say must mean something whether that something is metaphorical or not is up for debate. However Scientifical you cannot prove the afterlife wrong untill you die. It is of course possible it is imprinted in our brains so we are not so scared of dying. But why are we scared of dying? Attachment. Alot of these people who spoke of the afterlife where completly free of attachment yet they still spoke of an afterlife. Is it possible that these people where meant to speak about these things so that others would feel comfort? Is that part of the nature of these people of faith these prophets? Perhaps yes. That still makes them an important part of our society perhaps one of the most important parts. Perhaps they are what keep everything together? Because if we were all scared of dying nothing would ever happen. You see you can attack religion as false but no matter what you can't challange it's importance to society. You can't deny the good words these men spoke to better the world because that is what they were trying to do. Christians DO NOT REFLECT CHRIST!!! If he was here today he would walk with Gays and go to abortion clinics just like he walked with prostitues and lepers.

Basicaly my point is you can view it as a way to control people but that's not what it was meant to be. That may be what it is used for by greedy politicians and fundementalists with an Agenda but the average person of faith does not view these people as speaking the truth or view them as rational in fact they are viewed by rational Christians as fanatics who are insane. Yes Faith is unity of the spirit. Yes it is all important to the structure of society. Yes it can be used as a weapon. But it isn't always. It is often used by the true of spirit as a tool for personal betterment and social virtue. Thats what it comes down to. Are you true of spirit? If you are then you will do good no matter what position you hold. If you are true to yourself and the world (what I mean by spirit) you are doing the work of God (I mean this metaphoricaly). Of course evil serves a purpous because things need a balance but this post is already long enough.

quote:Of course all scientific evidince points to humans just dying and nothing happening however don't you think it's possible that this energy that flows through our bodies is recycled in nature just as all other natural things are return to the earth?

The energy is useless without a brain to process it, creating consciousness, and without a body for sensory experience. There's more to what makes you what you are than "energy", so for all accounts, what you are ceases to be and becomes nothing but dust and superfluous energy that might as well not exist.

Also, the soul is an unsubstantial substance, a contradiction in terms put forward by people who have failed to prove its existence.

quote:Because if we were all scared of dying nothing would ever happen.

It's death that motivates people to ask questions. When confronted with your own mortality you realize you don't have much time. That's why everyone is so busy, running around trying to figure everything out.

[This message has been edited by Hare_Geist (edited 03-05-2007).]

yango, you keep trying to put forward that sprituality is necessary. Which I can prove its not, because I'm not spiritual.

Your idea of the energy in the body. The energy is a result of a chemical reaction happening starting with the food we eat. If our body cant process that food we have no energy.

The energy can change up and down on how well your body is functioning. So if that energy is your spirit. And you havent eaten anything for a while is part of your spirit left your body? since the overall electrical charge of the body has gone down? No it just means the battery is running dry. And if that battery runs out, we cant process food, and no energy is created, the spirit/energy is dead.

quote:Originally posted by boozehound420:

yango, you keep trying to put forward that sprituality is necessary. Which I can prove its not, because I'm not spiritual.

Your idea of the energy in the body. The energy is a result of a chemical reaction happening starting with the food we eat. If our body cant process that food we have no energy.

The energy can change up and down on how well your body is functioning. So if that energy is your spirit. And you havent eaten anything for a while is part of your spirit left your body? since the overall electrical charge of the body has gone down? No it just means the battery is running dry. And if that battery runs out, we cant process food, and no energy is created, the spirit/energy is dead.

A battery is hardly proof there is no afterlife I mean what are rechargable batterys then? What are all these batterys metaphoricaly creating energy for? Is the recharger reincarnation? Either way that argument can be flipped around. You can not believe in life after death but you can't prove it. However spirituality and faiths effect on society are proven scientificaly and historically. All i'm asking is that people challanging faith think about why it exsists. As the scientific person you are. Because it's simply more then control. Reading about the prophets alone shows this. Scientificaly the Bible is actually used because it is a historical document as well as anything else. Science is just doing the same thing religion was seeking answers to the questions we all ask. The fact in the past was what you saw and heard by word of mouth. If you are to challange faith you need to look at it from both a spiritual and scientific standpoint or else it just drives away Christians they will not wish to communicate with you or listen to your opinions and they will write yo off that much faster. Religious people are people alot of them are smart. Smarter then you or me by a long shot. Genious infact some of them are. You need to look beyond scientific fact to succesfully challange faith.

quote:Scientificaly the Bible is actually used because it is a historical document as well as anything else.

You're making a lot of false claims. Historians state that the Bible is riddled with false history.

As for the afterlife, no, you cannot prove 100% that it is not real. However, you cannot prove that Zeus isn't real, or that there's a giant pink bunny behind you that vanishes every time someone attempts to look at it. You'd be quite mad to believe these things without evidence and I would be quite made to believe claims about there being some eternal hell pit without evidence.

quote:Originally posted by Hare_Geist:

You're making a lot of false claims. Historians state that the Bible is riddled with false history.

As for the afterlife, no, you cannot prove 100% that it is not real. However, you cannot prove that Zeus isn't real, or that there's a giant pink bunny behind you that vanishes every time someone attempts to look at it. You'd be quite mad to believe these things without evidence and I would be quite made to believe claims about there being some eternal hell pit without evidence.

It was passed around by word of mouth alot first. It can't be used to prove the exsistance of God or as a 100% reliable document but it can be used as a historical document and alot of historians and scientists do just that. I can't prove that Zeus or a magical bunny doesn't exsist. So I won't try to.

quote:Originally posted by yango wango:

It was passed around by word of mouth alot first. It can't be used to prove the exsistance of God or as a 100% reliable document but it can be used as a historical document and alot of historians and scientists do just that. I can't prove that Zeus or a magical bunny doesn't exsist. So I won't try to.

So if the bible can't be used to prove the existence of God... and you won't try proving the existence of Zeus or a magical bunny because you can't prove their existence... then how the hell do you justify the existence of your God? http://www.totse.com/bbs/confused.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/confused.gif)

For your own sake I desperately hope whatever logic and rationality is left in your head, is not about to be further bypassed for your "soul's" lack of ability to swallow your pride and admit you've been wrong. Sigh.

quote:Originally posted by yango wango:

It was passed around by word of mouth alot first. It can't be used to prove the exsistance of God or as a 100% reliable document but it can be used as a historical document and alot of historians and scientists do just that. I can't prove that Zeus or a magical bunny doesn't exsist. So I won't try to.

It's precisely it being passed around by word of mouth that makes it not a good source for historians as evidence of something happening.

Kazz covered the rest.

quote:Originally posted by yango wango:

A battery is hardly proof there is no afterlife I mean what are rechargable batterys then? What are all these batterys metaphoricaly creating energy for? Is the recharger reincarnation? Either way that argument can be flipped around. You can not believe in life after death but you can't prove it. However spirituality and faiths effect on society are proven scientificaly and historically. All i'm asking is that people challanging faith think about why it exsists. As the scientific person you are. Because it's simply more then control. Reading about the prophets alone shows this. Scientificaly the Bible is actually used because it is a historical document as well as anything else. Science is just doing the same thing religion was seeking answers to the questions we all ask. The fact in the past was what you saw and heard by word of mouth. If you are to challange faith you need to look at it from both a spiritual and scientific standpoint or else it just drives away Christians they will not wish to communicate with you or listen to your opinions and they will write yo off that much faster. Religious people are people alot of them are smart. Smarter then you or me by a long shot. Genious infact some of them are. You need to look beyond scientific fact to succesfully challange faith.

you missed the main point of my post. The energy level in our body is not a constant. So you cant use that as being your spirit. Unless you think your spirit is constantly changing and leaving our body and coming back again.

the bible is not used as a historical document whatsoever. THe only way we know when the bible was written was from comparing its stories to ACTUALL historical documents.

What are these scientific and historical proofs the faith ans spirituality benifited, and continues to benifit society. I'd love to know.

Faith is holding back society as far as I can tell. Even know its doing a shitty job at it because more and more people have realised that you dont need it.

[This message has been edited by boozehound420 (edited 03-05-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by Kazz:

So if the bible can't be used to prove the existence of God... and you won't try proving the existence of Zeus or a magical bunny because you can't prove their existence... then how the hell do you justify the existence of your God? http://www.totse.com/bbs/confused.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/confused.gif)

For your own sake I desperately hope whatever logic and rationality is left in your head, is not about to be further bypassed for your "soul's" lack of ability to swallow your pride and admit you've been wrong. Sigh.

Goddammit guys get on the same page as me. I am playing devils advocate (heh heh). I would much sooner side with an atheist then a christian pushing his beliefs. However I would much sooner side with Christian moderates then atheists who don't know what the hell they are talking about. What you don't understand is I am an ally I am not an enemy. But neither is faith. Ignorance is the enemy and I attempt to battle it on all fronts (hence my presence in this forum today). My comment about not being able to prove Zeus or the Magic Bunny is because I cannot prove they exsist so why would I? It was a comment aimed at the previous poster about him challanging faith. I repeat I am not a Christian, I am not a Jew, I am not a Muslim, I AM HUMAN!!! I agree that religion has caused much much pain. I have myself been brought to tears over the Israeli-Arab situation. It is so frusturating and hopeless. But it is not the suicide bombers who will bring about peace it is the moderates(starting to turn to the same page as me yet?). I also see in people I know the positive effects of faith (my mother, my grandmother). My mother is a Christian she goes to the united church a very liberal church esspecialy here in Canada. I am myself interested in it and know the positive effects of focusing on my spirituality through reading and through personal experience. Right now I am reading the Marquis De Sade's Justine or The misfortunes of virtue. He was a strong strong spokesman against organized religion. However he understood the need for virtue and the need of vileness. I would also say he was indeed a spiritual person. All philosophers must be. I am not arguing this because I am a Christian (though I am spiritual) i'm arguing it because honestly your arguments against faith are just as bad as you all claim that faith is pushed on you and just as ignorant. That is all. Thanks for reading.

quote:Originally posted by: yango wango

But it is not the suicide bombers who will bring about peace it is the moderates(starting to turn to the same page as me yet?).

Not quite yet, and here is why:

In this day and age, it doesn't take much for someone with a slightly advanced intellectual prowess and a link or source to nuclear or biological weapons to reap destruction on those who they feel are not in line with his/her faith. These people believe that they are serving their God in the highest of fashions, and are willing to kill themselves and others for these beliefs.

No, you can't easily change the mind of a religious extremist, but a good way of helping them stay protected from "religious persecution" is by keeping their close cousins, the moderates, at an elevated, sheltered position in society that gives just enough leeway to keep these inane religious beliefs on the backburner.

Islamic moderates might not approve or condone suicide bombings, but they just don't know what it's really like to truly believe in the responsibilities of jihad that their violent peers in religion do.

If we think that abolishing extremists is the ONLY step needed to get these "acts of faith" stopped before thousands of others get killed, then we're missing the big picture here.

Our fear of provoking religious intolerance to such groups allows the moderate and liberal followers of faith to keep living the storybook lie that people of their faith could not POSSIBLY be following the "true" religion that they themselves subscribe to ... because theirs is a peaceful, loving one - certainly not a religion to be feared as one that could somehow illicit violent tendencies in an individual!

Again, it's not the liberal, moderate people of faith who are flying airplanes into buildings - but they need to realize that the respect they demand for their "faith" more often times than not shelters extremists of ALL faiths.

True enough, faith itself in a religious doctrine need not be completely treated with suspicion and shifty-eyes, but it's high time these supposed "moderates" go one step further to admit that it is the belief in that very faith that they so loosely adhere to that is the central cause of people taking that faith out of context, to the extreme, and not stopping until there are burning, smoking bodies falling out of buildings.

I would just like, for once, to see a moderate Muslim admit that it is quite possible for another Muslim to take the texts of the Koran "out of context" (concerning murdering infidels), while still believing that they are merely "doing the work of God".

Usually their stance is just this: "They have misinterpreted the Holy Writings". No, I'm sorry, but they haven't - they have just taken more of a responsibility to them than you, the religious moderate, who are not willing to take on such a commitment.

quote:Originally posted by boozehound420:

pass on our genes to further the species. And have a blast while doing.

The purpose of the after-life is to comfort people who are affraid of death. A christian once told me you have no emotion in heaven, something about the inability to do evil once in heaven therfor you dont have emotion. Sounds pretty fucken stupid to me. I'd rather hang out in hell.

That's not the purpose of life. That is the purpose of being here on earth, to reproduce. That's not the reason why we are here.

Religion is bullshit.

quote:Originally posted by boozehound420:

pass on our genes to further the species. And have a blast while doing.

The purpose of the after-life is to comfort people who are affraid of death. A christian once told me you have no emotion in heaven, something about the inability to do evil once in heaven therfor you dont have emotion. Sounds pretty fucken stupid to me. I'd rather hang out in hell.



I LOVE YOU!

That was a great simple explanation, compltely agree 100%