but why can't some of you guys get the idea that this is FAITH. Get it? FAITH. No facts needed. Some of you atheists are just as bad as those "OMFG your not Christian, you're going to be so left behind" Christians. Can't you guys just accept others faith?

I get religion is about faith. It would have to be because it's unsubstantiated and not likely true, therefore it requires faith in order to give people that fuzzy feeling inside.

I have no problem with faith, unless people start passing it off as pseudo-science. Then I speak out. If I were a religious person, I would be a strict Fideist.

I also have no problem with faith, unless I think the specific faith is causing problems in the world. Then I think it would be stupid of me not to speak out.

[This message has been edited by Hare_Geist (edited 03-08-2007).]

As long as there are people out there sharing their religious values and teaching people how to think about the world through a God-lens, there will be people out there like myself who are going to speak up and offer these same people an alternative worldview to consider. It's not disrespectful. It's dutiful. And necessary.

Most "Christians" don't get that it's about Faith, either.

"The Bible is 100% true!"

"Which version?"

"All of them! I mean, if it isn't totally true, how could we believe in God?"

which is where faith, and especially personal knowledge (gnosis) comes in to save the day.

If i knew what we know now when we wrote the Bible, Koran etc, i would have expected that our minds would have developed to a state where we didn't rely on blind faith by the year 2007 A.C.

I know that it's faith, and that's the reason I am against it. I am against faith.

quote:Originally posted by Real.PUA:

I know that it's faith, and that's the reason I am against it. I am against faith.

Amen motherfucker

quote:Originally posted by Real.PUA:

I know that it's faith, and that's the reason I am against it. I am against faith.

You are against faith in a non religious sense as well?

quote:Originally posted by Real.PUA:

I know that it's faith, and that's the reason I am against it. I am against faith.

All faith?

Because everything requires faith.

quote:Originally posted by Rizzo in a box:

All faith?

Because everything requires faith.

The majority of day to day experiences require no faith whatsoever..

People use the term faith far too loosely.

quote:Originally posted by bung:

The majority of day to day experiences require no faith whatsoever..

People use the term faith far too loosely.

Oh really? Care to explain?

When I take a shit in a toilet, I have faith that I'll be able to flush it...

quote:Originally posted by Rizzo in a box:

All faith?

Because everything requires faith.

Im against all belief without evidence. That doesnt mean I require absolute certainty.

No, I am not going to respect nonsensical and often outright offensive beliefs merely because people hold them without or inspite of existing evidence.

Faith is just a smokescreen for people who can't deal with reality. Grow the fuck up, you idiots; it's not the Dark Ages anymore so your excuses are bullshit.

I don't think it matters whether there's proof or not, as long as what you belief supports what you want from life.

quote:Originally posted by Rizzo in a box:

Oh really? Care to explain?

When I take a shit in a toilet, I have faith that I'll be able to flush it...

Thats like the question posted to Richard Dawkins in a college seminar in the US.

"If i drop a ball, i have faith it will bounce back up thats rational faith do you see a difference between ration and irrational faith?"

And he said basically.....faith is belief without proof or evidence, and, if you have a perfectly good toilet that flushed the last time....its pretty sure, unless someone messed with it...that it will flush again.

I am against faith as a concept...it is completely irrational which is why i cant respect someone to the highest caliber even if they are FAR more intelligent than i....simply because they fail to use logic wen it comes to religion.

quote:Originally posted by Rizzo in a box:

Oh really? Care to explain?

When I take a shit in a toilet, I have faith that I'll be able to flush it...

That's not faith, that's using inductive logic pertaining to your previous experiences, so you can come up with a probable conclusion as to what will happen when you flush the toilet.

Like I said, the term 'faith' is used far too loosely and often incorrectly.

People in general have trouble with understanding that their faith isn't some kind of ultimate universal truth.

However, I don't think you can be against faith. It's a very personal thing. You either have your faith/belief in God, or you don't.

I personally don't, but I accept that other people do, and that it is something you can't understand without experiencing it.

Jx

I understand where Aitheists come from and how there is no raw perfectly "factual" data of God. But ask yourself really, where did we come from? If you say the Darwin theory and evolution your just ignorant because then I can say, well where did nature come from, and You'll say. The big bang, and I'll LOL a little and say well where did that come from? until your completly puzzled and have to admit that something out of human scope of understanding created us.

You don't have to belive in a old man sitting in heaven sending souls to heaven or hell, but believe in something, becasue they're has to be more then jsut nature involved.

You can either believe in things based on evidence or you can have faith. Your question makes little sense because an atheist can ask you where did god come from. It's the exact same question except that there is evidence for a big bang, there is no evidence for god (and all the myths that came with the various religions)...

It also comes to a point where eventually you just have to say "I dont know." Scientists do this all the time. You don't need an answer to everything..admitting that you don't know is much better than being DISHONEST and making up some bull shit that people will believe on faith.

quote:Originally posted by among_the_living:

Thats like the question posted to Richard Dawkins in a college seminar in the US.

"If i drop a ball, i have faith it will bounce back up thats rational faith do you see a difference between ration and irrational faith?"

And he said basically.....faith is belief without proof or evidence, and, if you have a perfectly good toilet that flushed the last time....its pretty sure, unless someone messed with it...that it will flush again.

I am against faith as a concept...it is completely irrational which is why i cant respect someone to the highest caliber even if they are FAR more intelligent than i....simply because they fail to use logic wen it comes to religion.

I have plenty of experience to prove that God exists.

It is, of course, all personal experience.

but then again, so is everything!

and "evidence" is subjective, btw.

My deepest wish is for people to be able to keep their fucking beliefs under their hats in interactions with other people. If we arn't talking about religion, don't bring your's up. I only mention my lack of religion when someone directly asks. Those athiests that end up getting harassed usually go around flaunting their atheism at everybody.

i dont see the big conflict with christians and athiests...i live with an athiest, and i am pentacostal and we not only get along fine but share many common opinions and belife's on the bible.

quote:Originally posted by Thought Riot:

but why can't some of you guys get the idea that this is FAITH. Get it? FAITH. No facts needed. Some of you atheists are just as bad as those "OMFG your not Christian, you're going to be so left behind" Christians. Can't you guys just accept others faith?

i know what you mean but it really isn't based on much at all. to me, it is more a social norm, a myth that everyone has believed and accepted as history. the only way i can legitimize peoples concept of theistic faith (in christianity atleast) is if they have faith that jesus came to earth and preached all the good stuff. one would also have to have faith it wasn't just a schizophrenic person with a kind heart.

quote:Originally posted by Thought Riot:

but why can't some of you guys get the idea that this is FAITH. Get it? FAITH. No facts needed. Some of you atheists are just as bad as those "OMFG your not Christian, you're going to be so left behind" Christians. Can't you guys just accept others faith?

Thank you for accepting other peoples faiths. I fuckin hate people who try to convert me, I rather be left alone, I dont put much care into religion, im not an athiest though im a satanist

quote:Originally posted by Thought Riot:

but why can't some of you guys get the idea that this is FAITH. Get it? FAITH. No facts needed.

Yes, we know. A big old stinking hill of faith compost. Some people aren't big fans of FAITH though. FAITH is what gets poeple tortured and killed. FAITH is what says raping 3 year olds will cure AIDS. Fuck FAITH.

This is the thread where FAITH died.

quote:Originally posted by GrtZ:

I understand where Aitheists come from and how there is no raw perfectly "factual" data of God. But ask yourself really, where did we come from? If you say the Darwin theory and evolution your just ignorant because then I can say, well where did nature come from, and You'll say. The big bang, and I'll LOL a little and say well where did that come from? until your completly puzzled and have to admit that something out of human scope of understanding created us.

You don't have to belive in a old man sitting in heaven sending souls to heaven or hell, but believe in something, becasue they're has to be more then jsut nature involved.

and I'll lol a little and ask where did God come from? Both atheism and theism have to deal with the concept of eternity, something which is beyond human understanding.

quote:Originally posted by Rizzo in a box:

I have plenty of experience to prove that God exists.

It is, of course, all personal experience.

but then again, so is everything!

and "evidence" is subjective, btw.

Personal experience means nothing as far as rationality is concerned. People hallucinate. People percieve the non-existent. Experience which can be demonstrated to others is all that matters when trying to prove something.

And all experience does not require faith. This solipsist "faith", that we must have faith in our senses, is retarded. It's not without evidence. The evidence in in the perception itself.

I know that whatever proof of experience I percieve must also flow through my senses. But where does that justify making jumps beyond the rationale shown through them of life?

That is, how can you justify taking what your senses perceieve, and then saying as these require faith, I'm allowed another layer of faith upon that, since I'm already having faith?

To make it simpler, what justification, using the solipsist's argument, is there for having faith in a god, over faith in an invisible pink unicorn which hovers in the sky?

quote:Originally posted by Rizzo in a box:

Oh really? Care to explain?

When I take a shit in a toilet, I have faith that I'll be able to flush it...

There are specialized people that their entire jog is to make you toilets work it would take some faith to belive that my toilet will stop working for no logical explanation. Look there are millions of toilets out there and millions of them work because of the mechanical element of these devises that make them work and every now and then out might now work because of erosion or clogging because of a shit you took.

quote:Originally posted by Thought Riot:

but why can't some of you guys get the idea that this is FAITH. Get it? FAITH. No facts needed. Some of you atheists are just as bad as those "OMFG your not Christian, you're going to be so left behind" Christians. Can't you guys just accept others faith?

Because they feel compelled to share their 'truth' just as Christians feel compelled to spread the message of God. Men, essentially, want to bring others to agree with them.

Personally, I find Christianity to be a disgusting influence on politics and that it is far too easily used as justification for atrocities. However, I do not try to argue against it on the grounds of logic or reason because such has no place in a faith-based worldview. Christians need to tout and be okay with the fact that their belief is completely irrational; insane, even. It isn't necessarily a bad thing. I think that when looking at a belief that a man holds, one must view it in terms of how it affects the behavior of the believer.

For example, if Mormonism incites in its adherents compassion and a desire to help fellow men, then no one should really have any problem with it (regardless of the fact that it is completely absurd on historical grounds).

All beliefs are fine by me as long as they aid in creating an atmosphere of love and understanding. Christianity can, and should, but it doesn't always.... I am divided over how to view it, but you're right that atheists oftentimes don't understand faith-based systems of belief.