Without getting too technical, scientists like Redi, Spallanzani, and Pasteur determined long ago that spontaneous generation does not happen. But does that contradict the atheist's view of the creation of the universe? To me, that's like saying the entire universe and every living thing in it was created spontaneously by nothing. Eh?

Why does the universe have to be created?

Also, we know all of this didn't happen spontaneously. There was evolution, etc. etc. And the big bang wasn't the creation of the universe, it was the earliest recorded event in the universe, which doesn't come into conflict with my idea that the universe was always here but does show that all of this can be explained without the need for saying "God did it".



[This message has been edited by Hare_Geist (edited 03-13-2007).]

Completely different scenarios. The universe originating from quantum fluctuations != flies popping out of poop.

We may not know the exact mechanisms that life and the universe were made but we are getting close and saying god did it gets us no where.

Its better to examine the world for what it is than cling to bronze age Idea.

quote:Originally posted by whocares123:

Without getting too technical, scientists like Redi, Spallanzani, and Pasteur determined long ago that spontaneous generation does not happen. But does that contradict the atheist's view of the creation of the universe? To me, that's like saying the entire universe and every living thing in it was created spontaneously by nothing. Eh?

Spontaneous generation refers to complex life spontaneously appearing out of nothing. That was a belief held long ago because people weren't aware of things on a microscopic level. They couldn't explain how flies, maggots and other bugs appeared in their food warehouses so they argued that these forms of life just spontaneously appeared.

Neither evolution nor abiogenesis, nor the Big Bang say that complex life spontaneously appeared; so it contradicts absolutely nothing.

I laugh at this statement every time i hear it.

Abiogenesis is not spontaneous generations of complex or even simple life. It's generation of ribozymes and protobions. Not even a real cell. Not to mention the fact that "spontaneous generation" of organic macromolecules from simple monomers has been observed to happen in controlled experiments.

Creationists on the other hand are the ones who believe in spontaneous generation. No life. POOF. Complex life.

Am I the only one who sees this hypocrisy?

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

Neither evolution nor abiogenesis, nor the Big Bang say that complex life spontaneously appeared; so it contradicts absolutely nothing.

And I'm not saying that either. But in a view that holds there is no God, no Creator that is, then all of these processes, the big bang, evolution, etc, had to have started spontaneously, all on their own, just out of nowhere. At least that's how I see it at this time.

I'm a deist with no religious affiliation.

Not really. One set off a bunch of events that set off another that set off another, with the big bang being the earliest recorded. As for how that little ball of hot energy got there, well I reckon it was always there in some form or another.

quote:Originally posted by whocares123:

And I'm not saying that either. But in a view that holds there is no God, no Creator that is, then all of these processes, the big bang, evolution, etc, had to have started spontaneously, all on their own, just out of nowhere. At least that's how I see it at this time.

Define "spontaneously". If by that you mean, "completely naturally", "unplanned" or "started all on their own without any help from a deity", then sure. That still doesn't support the idea that evolution and abiogenesis somehow contradict spontaneous generation talked about by Pasteur and the rest.

Again, the term "Spontaneous generation", in the context of those scientists you mentioned, refers to complex life appearing out of nowhere. That's what Pasteur proved does not happen. Since neither evolution nor abiogenesis claim that complex life appears out of nowhere, they do not contradict the refutation of spontaneous generation by scientists.



quote:

I'm a deist with no religious affiliation.

... Okay, I don't recall involving your religious beliefs or the lack of them. Whether you're an atheist or a fundamentalist Christian, the reality is still that these concepts you mention do not contradict the refutation of spontaneous generation.