It is painfully clear that a majority of the world's terrorists are Islamic, but will this last? Though there will not be a decline in Islamist terror until major issues, (Israel-Palestine, poverty, Kashmir, the rise of Wahhabiism) are resolved, I believe that extremism is starting to rise in another religion. The title is a dead giveaway. Evolution is being challenged by unsupported creationism; gay discrimination is skyrocketing; and support of extremist evangenlicals is on the rise. The likes of Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson have stated that: gays, lesbians and the ACLU were responsible for 9/11; India's poverty is God's punishment for Hinduism; God gave Ariel Sharon a stroke because he gave land to Muslims; and feminism encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians. If America was in a state of economic disarray or violence within our borders, these men would be the America's answer to al-Zawahiri and Bin-Laden. For more info: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-fbcy1tRoA

quote:majority of the world's terrorists are Islamic

They are?

Standing by for the inevitable influx of "O No! Not my Religion!" posts...

quote:Originally posted by Hare_Geist:

They are?

Well, that does depend on the divsive issue of what a terrorist is...

quote:Originally posted by Hare_Geist:

They are?

Actually, they really are.

quote:Originally posted by Pinball Mgruff:

Actually, they really are.

Can this be backed up with evidence?

*cough* IRA *cough*

Interesting article concerning religious terrorism on the rise (http://tinyurl.com/2q7n2s)

And, I might add, a fine example of how the eradication of organized religion would benefit societies everywhere.

[This message has been edited by AngryFemme (edited 03-14-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by Hare_Geist:

Can this be backed up with evidence?

Palestine, Syria, Iran, Iraq, etc.

The thought crosses my mind pretty often. Luckily, most extremism around here is for the simple goal of raising money for the church owner, and ordering the flock to blow stuff up won't really increase profits.

Is this threat already too large to be stopped?

quote:Originally posted by Pinball Mgruff:

Palestine, Syria, Iran, Iraq, etc.

That's not evidence.

quote:Originally posted by anti gravity:

*cough* IRA *cough*

*cough* moron who cant do rudimentary research *cough*

Yea, because not believing in evolution, edisagreeig with gay rights, and pro-life stances is just as bad as packing nails, ball bearings, and rat poison (so anyone that gets hit is guaranteed to bleed to death if their insides arent liquified in the shockwave) around C4 and blowing yourself up and 100 others at the supermarket. http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

Yay, free speech!

You are aware that there are extremists raising their children to infiltrate the Whitehouse to bring around doomsday, causing Jesus to come back, don't you?

That's pretty insane to me.

quote:Originally posted by Hare_Geist:

You are aware that there are extremists raising their children to infiltrate the Whitehouse to bring around doomsday, causing Jesus to come back, don't you?

That's pretty insane to me.

There are members of all religions that teach their children to ascend to governing positions. But do provide a link where Christians are planning to bring about this "Doomsday" of which you speak.

Compare this to terrorist training camps littered across dozens of countries in the Mid East and Africa.

Not that significant anymore, is it?

I watched a few videos on youtube about the "jesus camp" thing. Those children would probably fit nicely into Christian extremism in a few years.

quote:Originally posted by echodrug:

I watched a few videos on youtube about the "jesus camp" thing. Those children would probably fit nicely into Christian extremism in a few years.

I doubt it. Ever notice how kids with strict parents usually end up on totse as amoral heathens? Same principle.

Over here, its not like it is in Muslim countries where if your parents are extremists and you arent, they would rather kill you.

Here? I bet the parents that sent their kids to Jesus Camp spend their nights drinking beer, swearing, and beating their wives. Great role models, ehh?

Jesus once tought a parable about the seeds and the soil. Some of the seeds never got deep into the good soil and as soon as the birds came, they were gone.

Same application here.

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

I doubt it. Ever notice how kids with strict parents usually end up on totse as amoral heathens? Same principle.

Over here, its not like it is in Muslim countries where if your parents are extremists and you arent, they would rather kill you.

Here? I bet the parents that sent their kids to Jesus Camp spend their nights drinking beer, swearing, and beating their wives. Great role models, ehh?

Jesus once tought a parable about the seeds and the soil. Some of the seeds never got deep into the good soil and as soon as the birds came, they were gone.

Same application here.

Yea true, i can somewhat agree with that.

What do you actually mean by "strict parents"? This is far from being strict, in the sense of being very determined the child is to be good.

At jesus camp it is nothing but psychological manipulation and emotional blackmail. Plus they're children, it's not like your average bastard of a child given a few slaps to keep him in shape.

quote:Originally posted by echodrug:

Yea true, i can somewhat agree with that.

What do you actually mean by "strict parents"? This is far from being strict, in the sense of being very determined the child is to be good.

At jesus camp it is nothing but psychological manipulation and emotional blackmail. Plus they're children, it's not like your average bastard of a child given a few slaps to keep him in shape.

The parents sent them there. Thats like church x 1000. Their parents surely must agree with the doctrine taught at Jesus Camp (unfortunately).

Obviously, they wouldnt like at all for their children to be fags or stoners, and I would be willing to bet the majority would use physical violence if ever one of those things occured.

Sending your kids to this stuff sounds like the proverbial hardass Catholic family, no?

I really cant reason it within me for a child that young to truely WANT to go to that without having been indoctrinated to begin with. Children that young really arent the best at making critical decisions necessary to determining the worth or going to ne of those rallies.

I mean, its church, for goodness sake. I remember when I went to church years ago. It was horrible and boring. I just played with cars or play-doh.

quote:What do you actually mean by "strict parents"? This is far from being strict, in the sense of being very determined the child is to be good.

By now you should see what I'm trying to say. The sentence I quote should tell you the reason that necessitates being strict to whatever measure required.

"the sense of being very determined the child is to be good"

There is it.

Let check the opposite. Do you think that atheist parents would make their kids go there?

Hmm, I suppose that they could go for their friends.... but thats how they sucker them in, I suppose. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

Over here, its not like it is in Muslim countries where if your parents are extremists and you arent, they would rather kill you.

Over here, it's not like people from upper-middle-class backgrounds aren't completely and utterly naive about what goes on in the seedier sections of backwoods America. *sarcasm*

People exhibit such shock about the lengths Muslim extremists go to in third world countries - not even realizing that there are fundamental religious Christian grassroots movements right here in their own country that are capable of the same levels of violence.

quote:Originally posted by AngryFemme:

Over here, it's not like people from upper-middle-class backgrounds aren't completely and utterly naive about what goes on in the seedier sections of backwoods America. *sarcasm*

People exhibit such shock about the lengths Muslim extremists go to in third world countries - not even realizing that there are fundamental religious Christian grassroots movements right here in their own country that are capable of the same levels of violence.

There is a difference. Over there, you could label your son a heretic and have him executed and you walk away scott free.

Here, it gets harder to justify, and you dont always walk away without jail time.

Living in such an area, I can safely say religious murders are extremely rare. In fact, I have yet to hear about one.

quote:Originally posted by shitty wok:

It is painfully clear that a majority of the world's terrorists are Islamic, but will this last? Though there will not be a decline in Islamist terror until major issues, (Israel-Palestine, poverty, Kashmir, the rise of Wahhabiism) are resolved, I believe that extremism is starting to rise in another religion. The title is a dead giveaway. Evolution is being challenged by unsupported creationism; gay discrimination is skyrocketing; and support of extremist evangenlicals is on the rise. The likes of Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson have stated that: gays, lesbians and the ACLU were responsible for 9/11; India's poverty is God's punishment for Hinduism; God gave Ariel Sharon a stroke because he gave land to Muslims; and feminism encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians. If America was in a state of economic disarray or violence within our borders, these men would be the America's answer to al-Zawahiri and Bin-Laden. For more info: ht tp://www.y outube.com /watch?v=p -fbcy1tRoA (http: //www.yout ube.com/wa tch?v=p-fb cy1tRoA)

hey dude, i just want to remind you this is a Christian country no matter what you think. You all are guests in our house. Christian ideology allows for you "GUESTS" to live here and have equal rights we dont act like the supremists! hmm, let me think what other religion in the world would ever let you do that??? hmm, none!!! sit down bitch and move to Amsterdam!!!

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

There is a difference. Over there, you could label your son a heretic and have him executed and you walk away scott free.

Here, it gets harder to justify, and you dont always walk away without jail time.



So ... American Christian parents who push their extreme fundamental beliefs on their children are somehow better, just due to the fact that they fear punishment from the authorities, so they're unable to get away with that kind of harsh treatment?

I mean, don't get me wrong - I'm sure these same parents are grateful to live in a country that has strict laws against murder. No doubt they value their OWN protection ... But just because it is difficult to get away with doesn't mean that other forms of harsh physical and psychological punishment can't be doled out by cruel parents to their "heretic" children.

I am just kinda shocked that you used the word "justify", as if there is one shard of decency to be had in turning your kids into potential extremists. How could it be justified, period? Forget about the laws.

quote: Living in such an area, I can safely say religious murders are extremely rare.

Are you insinuating that you live in an extremely poor, backwoods area of America where lack of education and backwards rituals concerning raising children is predominant? I bet that Fiero of yours sticks out like a sore thumb, eh? http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

quote: In fact, I have yet to hear about one

Yet, it still happens. We are going to have to scold the media for not properly keeping you in the loop, aren't we? Since the media has failed you, it is my pleasure to help out:

Religion and Child Abuse (http://www.nospank.net/bottoms.pdf)

That is a very comprehensive paper outlining many documented cases of extreme child abuse in America stemming from religion. If I weren't in the office today, I'd take the time to weed through the many cases they've cited here (some including cases that ended up with the death of a child) and post them in a neat, bullet-pointed list for you.

Unfortunately, I'm saddled with a huge tasklist sitting in front of me that I've already neglected, so I trust you'll be thorough in following through with your research.

Edit - (as an afterthought)

quote:Originally posted by: The Pot Who Calls The Kettle Black: *cough* moron who cant do rudimentary research *cough*



[This message has been edited by AngryFemme (edited 03-15-2007).]

Good link. This is why I love the internet...

That was pretty stupid. I'm disgusted that my country's (Canada) TV station would show that garbage.

quote:Originally posted by HideandSeek:

That was pretty stupid. I'm disgusted that my country's (Canada) TV station would show that garbage.

HEIL FALWELL http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

Masta Thief: I'd like to point out that as a Native American, you are a guest in *my* house.

Of course, since this fine nation both our people and many others have helped establish grants us EQUAL rights, you are a household member rather than a guest. As such, you should sit down and smoke your peace pipe before someone takes you out behind the shed to administer some of those good old-fashioned "American Values".

quote:Originally posted by AngryFemme:



So ... American Christian parents who push their extreme fundamental beliefs on their children are somehow better, just due to the fact that they fear punishment from the authorities, so they're unable to get away with that kind of harsh treatment?

I mean, don't get me wrong - I'm sure these same parents are grateful to live in a country that has strict laws against murder. No doubt they value their OWN protection ... But just because it is difficult to get away with doesn't mean that other forms of harsh physical and psychological punishment can't be doled out by cruel parents to their "heretic" children.

I am just kinda shocked that you used the word "justify", as if there is one shard of decency to be had in turning your kids into potential extremists. How could it be justified, period? Forget about the laws.



"Justification" is relative in the way I meant it. Might I say "rationalize" instead?

quote:Are you insinuating that you live in an extremely poor, backwoods area of America where lack of education and backwards rituals concerning raising children is predominant? I bet that Fiero of yours sticks out like a sore thumb, eh?

I live in MS, in a city where drugs get a complete blind eye from the police and there are miles and miles of backroads for stashing bodies.

Lack of education is a big part of my region, and "backwards childrearing" might fit into your description of how a child should be brought up.

Funny you mention the study, because it doesnt list any murders either, unless you count the %2 of non-religion related incidents. Then again, with murder being far more significant than a slapping, I doubt there were any.

Do "weed" through it when you get some time. I would love to see your report show 1 religion killing out of the %80 of people that claim to be Christian in a land of 300 million people.

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

Do "weed" through it when you get some time. I would love to see your report show 1 religion killing out of the %80 of people that claim to be Christian in a land of 300 million people.

Oh, Argon. It is a travesty that my office staff has to suffer because you are in denial about the atrocities committed in the name of your God. But it's Friday, and I'm in full-fledged slack mode, and - once again, at your service.

For your review:

A police witness said Josef Smith’s father told officers his 8-year-old son frequently needed discipline because the child carved death threats on the walls that kept the family awake at night and claimed he was a foot-soldier for the devil.

But prosecutors said the parents met that behavior with a tragic overreaction that led to the boy’s death — his body full of bruises and other injuries — after an October 2003 prayer session.

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/17487/remnant-fellowship-7

Dead child's mom sought discipline tips - Lynn Paddock ordered books by a minister and his wife that recommended using pipe to spank kids. Sean died after being wrapped so tightly in blankets he suffocated. That, too, was a form of punishment, Johnston County Sheriff Steve Bizzell said.

The Pearls' advice from their Web site: A swift whack with the plastic tubing would sting but not bruise. Give 10 licks at a time, more if the child resists. Be careful about using it in front of others -- even at church; nosy neighbors might call social workers. Save hands for nurturing, not disciplining. Heed the warning, taken from Proverbs in the Old Testament, that sparing the rod will spoil the child.

http://www.newsobserver.com/102/story/418676.html

In 1967, the Catholic Archdiocese of Chicago reportedly documented a failed exorcism of a teenage girl named Sarah, who subsequently died.

Terrance Cottrell Jr., an eight-year-old autistic child, died of asphyxiation in 2003 in Milwaukee, Wisconsin during an exorcism carried out by members of the Faith Temple Church of the Apostolic Faith, in an attempt to expel the boy's demons. The coroner ruled that the boy died "due to external chest compression" as the part-time pastor lay on top of him. On July 10, 2004, the pastor was convicted of child abuse.

(Convicted of child abuse? This motherfucker should have been strung up by his testicles in the very temple he worshipped in, for all his devoted followers to witness, as an example!!!) http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exorcism#Exorcism-related_deaths

In 1991 in suburban Philadelphia, five more children died during a measles outbreak, and in the 1970s, a Faith Tabernacle couple in suburban Philadelphia lost five children before age 2 to untreated cystic fibrosis. Called "baby killers" by some, the Faith Tabernacle refuses to elaborate beyond pamphlets in the church foyer about its beliefs.

http://www.skeptictank.org/hs/cabuse4.htm

^^(You’ll have to weed through the HUNDREDS of cases of child abuse that (luckily) didn’t end in homicide on that particular website’s citation to distinguish the actual murder cases by Christian parents, committed in the name of their faith. If you get tired of reading, just let me know – I’ll be happy to isolate all the murders in another separate list. But this will have to be when I’m not on company time.)

quote: Might I say "rationalize" instead?

Did you "rationalize" your way through all this child abuse and murder? Have you "rationalized" how people can take the messages in your Bible and use the righteousness of God to justify abusing children?

Why deny that it's happening? I mean, I can imagine the shame a person might suffer when being connected to a certain religion might mean having to admit that the messages contained therein has ugly sides to it - (I'm sure many peaceful Muslims can relate to this as well) - but to just flat out bury your head in the sand and stick your fingers in your ears to pretend it doesn't happen ... that's just wrong, man. SO wrong. On SO many levels.

quote:Originally posted by kurdt318:

Is this threat already too large to be stopped?

I don't think it is, unless you take a defeatist's attitude about it.

AWARENESS is key.

quote:Did you "rationalize" your way through all this child abuse and murder? Have you "rationalized" how people can take the messages in your Bible and use the righteousness of God to justify abusing children?

Why deny that it's happening? I mean, I can imagine the shame a person might suffer when being connected to a certain religion might mean having to admit that the messages contained therein has ugly sides to it - (I'm sure many peaceful Muslims can relate to this as well) - but to just flat out bury your head in the sand and stick your fingers in your ears to pretend it doesn't happen ... that's just wrong, man. SO wrong. On SO many levels.

Because if you ever sat down and read th eBible to its completion, you know that Christians cannot rationalize murder in any possible way.

Jews had killings for habitually unruly children, but that was Mosaic law and is nonbinding to Christians according to the New Testament.

Muslims dont have that, to my knowledge. They either have to follow the Koran entirely or not follow some parts of it, even though Mohammad or whoever else authoring the book didnt say "this part here doesnt apply."

So yea, Muslims can rationalize religious killings, while there is no justification whatsoever for a Christian.

Lets see, the only NT author that actually murdered someone would be Paul, and he didnt murder anyone after his conversion.

Im not too concerned over Muhhamad, so you can read the article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad

The founder of Islam starts a war, nevermind the assassinations of heretic merchants in the meantime. Justification of murder straight from the horse's mouth.

Your posts, however, do not show hundreds of murders; only a mere handful. I would also never consider Apostolics or anyone practicing exorcisms to be a Christian. Thats like me saying I get to walk around naked every other Friday is part of my religion, despite it not being in the Bible.

Now, if you would kindly drop the bullshit overexxageration that your sex is ridiculously prone to doing, you will find this stems from me saying I have never heard of a religious killing in my area. That is fact. The fact that you can provide only a handful of cases where religious killings actually have taken place leads me to believe you like to make shit up about Christianity and then call people ostritches.

quote:Did you "rationalize" your way through all this child abuse and murder? Have you "rationalized" how people can take the messages in your Bible and use the righteousness of God to justify abusing children?

This is where we end this tangent. Christians cannot rationalize murder. For arguement's sake, let us assume that Muslims cannot rationalize it either. We have aproximately the same number of murders due to Christian killings as we do beheadings of reporters and soldiers in Iraq. You would agree to that number?

Beheadings happen from extremists, because we cannot rationalize murder in Islam in this arguement. By same measure, Christian murders cannot be rationalized, therefore they must be extreists as well.

quote:I can imagine the shame a person might suffer when being connected to a certain religion might mean having to admit that the messages contained therein has ugly sides to it

So if we are to say extremist Islam is just a noneventual "ugly side" to a religin, you must also say these murders are also just another non-eventual "ugly side" that we can merrilly disregard as you are certainly wont to do. http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

Religious murders perpetrated by Christians dont just happen every day. Dont call me the ostritch when you are the elephant running from the mouse.

Fact is, you need to read exact words before you post next time, because you started this tangent by misreading my post:

quote:Living in such an area, I can safely say religious murders are extremely rare. In fact, I have yet to hear about one.

quote:Over here, it's not like people from upper-middle-class backgrounds aren't completely and utterly naive about what goes on in the seedier sections of backwoods America. *sarcasm*

People exhibit such shock about the lengths Muslim extremists go to in third world countries - not even realizing that there are fundamental religious Christian grassroots movements right here in their own country that are capable of the same levels of violence.

Honestly, you should give Christians the same amount of leniency that you give to Muslims before I consider your opinion again.

Christians outnumber the entire population of Islam by around 2:1, yet we always hear about Muslims killing people with fervor. Wouldnt it be something for a Christian murderer to make headlines? You would think the press would eat that up dont you?

With the outnumbering, you would probably think that Christians are more capable of the same violence, no? But obviously, potential means jack shit in the real world.

According to quantum physics, a basketball lying on the ground has potential to bounce on its own (look into random motion of atoms due to heat). But, to anyone's knowledge, this potential event has never happened. This simply reiterates that potential means nothing.

Try to not be so anti-Christian next time you hit that "Post Reply" button, aight?

I'm not just just Anti-Christian. I'm Anti-Islam, Anti-Judaism, Anti-Catholic... Anti-Anything that promotes unwavering devotion to a set of doctrines that ultimately demands that its adherents be bigoted towards others that are not of their sect. I'm Anti-Anything that boasts about it's own righteousness to the point of persecuting non-believers to eternal hellfire and damnation. I'm Anti-Anything that requires belief in a judgemental, wrathful God that comes dressed up as the picture of Moral Righteousness, yet condemns billions and billions and billions of people to hell.

You're just sore because I'm making an example of your particular baseless belief system, and you don't like to read the unpleasantries associated with the faith you personally cling to.

You ignore the facts I posted regarding murder and abuse in the name of religion. You make it seem as though I overexaggerated them, or just made them up - even though I provided sources. Half of those were actual police reports. Do the police exaggerate too? Are the judges and the entire court system in on this supposed fiasco?

quote: Your posts, however, do not show hundreds of murders; only a mere handful.

How many more do you need to see? And why do they have to be actual homicides before you will recognize outloud that it is despicable? Just because both the physical and psychological cases of abuse don't end in actual death, does it not still count as being wrong and morally corrupt? You just won't admit under any circumstances, no matter how many actual reports are cited and no matter how long of a bloody history Christianity has had over the course of mankind, that your religion can possibly be a hostile one. That is so incredible, yet so predictable of people who are in deep denial.

quote: I would also never consider Apostolics or anyone practicing exorcisms to be a Christian.

You might not consider them Christians, but I can guarantee that they consider themselves Christians. Your opinion of the legitimacy of their Christianity means squat. By your logic, wouldn't it be fair for a more devout, conservative Christian to speak out about YOU not being a "true" Christian if they witnessed something you might have said or done that was not very Christian-like in nature? And don't dare assert that you are the embodiment of all that Christ has taught about being a Christian, because I will call you out on it.

You might call those people extremists, but do you know what they call you? Half-assed believers. And you both devoutly believe your respective opinions to be true. How can either of you prove who is the true Christian? For all the loving, peaceful scriptures you could site out of the Bible to try and prove them the phoney, they could in turn pull an equal amount of harsher, vengeful scriptures out of the Bible to prove you the phoney. My point here is that it's not the people themselves we should be examining to try to figure out why these horrible things happen (and they do happen. you know they happen.). It's their religious mindset that needs to be seriously evaluated.

quote: Honestly, you should give Christians the same amount of leniency that you give to Muslims before I consider your opinion again.

I'll show leniency to neither, when it comes to the violence they perpetrate. Your consideration of my opinion means absolutely null on that front.

quote: With the outnumbering, you would probably think that Christians are more capable of the same violence, no? But obviously, potential means jack shit in the real world.

According to quantum physics, a basketball lying on the ground has potential to bounce on its own (look into random motion of atoms due to heat). But, to anyone's knowledge, this potential event has never happened. This simply reiterates that potential means nothing.

You keep justifying any means of Christian extremism by comparing the frequency of it as compared to Islam. That's the childlike equivalent of saying: "We might do it, but they do it more and they do it alot worse - so ours doesn't really count, so let's just ignore our extremists and forget it ever happens!" That is so very irresponsible of someone who supposedly cares about the state the world is in. Spouting off your rudimentary knowledge of quantum physics doesn't make your comparison any less ridiculous, either.



[This message has been edited by AngryFemme (edited 03-17-2007).]