Exodus 20:11

"For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day."

Why the hell would god need a fucking rest?

I'd look at from the other direction. Why would God need to take six whole days to create the universe?



[This message has been edited by fallinghouse (edited 03-26-2007).]

It's the way you're thinking of the word rest.

You're thinking of it as in like... you're exhausted and need to sleep kind of rest, but taking a rest from something can also just mean taking a break from it or stopping, not necessarily because you're tired.

Here's a snippet from m-w.com

1 : REPOSE, SLEEP ; specifically : a bodily state characterized by minimal functional and metabolic activities (the one you and most people would think of)

2 a : freedom from activity or labor

(the one that more than likely applies)

b : a state of motionlessness or inactivity c : the repose of death

Ahh, God.

Always resting about somewhere or other, that job he did over those 6 days set him up for life.

hahahahaha.

quote:Originally posted by TheMessiahComplex:

It's the way you're thinking of the word rest.

You're thinking of it as in like... you're exhausted and need to sleep kind of rest, but taking a rest from something can also just mean taking a break from it or stopping, not necessarily because you're tired.

Here's a snippet from m-w.com

1 : REPOSE, SLEEP ; specifically : a bodily state characterized by minimal functional and metabolic activities (the one you and most people would think of)

2 a : freedom from activity or labor

(the one that more than likely applies)

b : a state of motionlessness or inactivity c : the repose of death

You're right on that, but still why would a god require 6 days to make earth and the universe, and if there is no light how do you know what a day is?

Congratulations, you've proved the christian creation myth false. Have a cookie.

quote:Originally posted by asthesunsets:

Congratulations, you've proved the christian creation myth false. Have a cookie.

Yes, because that is such a difficult thing to do. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

quote:Originally posted by asthesunsets:

Congratulations, you've proved the christian creation myth false. Have a cookie.

Thnx for the cookie.

quote:Originally posted by asthesunsets:

Congratulations, you've proved the christian creation myth false. Have a cookie.

I don't see how it really proves creationism wrong just because it says he "rested". It dosn't even say that he was tired. It just says he rested. Like, he wasn't doing anything.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by TheMessiahComplex:

It's the way you're thinking of the word rest.

You're thinking of it as in like... you're exhausted and need to sleep kind of rest, but taking a rest from something can also just mean taking a break from it or stopping, not necessarily because you're tired.

Here's a snippet from m-w.com

1 : REPOSE, SLEEP ; specifically : a bodily state characterized by minimal functional and metabolic activities (the one you and most people would think of)

2 a : freedom from activity or labor

b : a state of motionlessness or inactivity c : the repose of death (the one that more than likely applies)

Fixed? http://www.totse.com/bbs/eek.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/eek.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Khepri:

Yes, because that is such a difficult thing to do. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

*Waits for more atheist dick sucking to begin*

quote:Originally posted by SAMMY249:

*Waits for more atheist dick sucking to begin*

This little light of mine

I'm gonna let it shine!

On the sixth day God made weed. Why the FUCK do you think he was resting?

quote:Originally posted by Rizzo in a box:

On the sixth day God made weed. Why the FUCK do you think he was resting?

Screw weed, I would say he was resting because of a massive dose of Salvia Divinorum. His brain was sucked out of his immaterial body and he swore it had communion with God, but then he realized he was God and it created an infinity paradox involved Postman Pat. You'd rest too after that had happened to you.

Even though I'm not a Christian, here's an explanation - http://godandscience.org/apologetics/rest.html

That was actually quite an informative link, Drox!

Now the question we have to beg is:

Why did God cease what he was doing after that long six days' worth of creation, and not strive to perfect it more, like put some kind of "curve" into free will where it would AT LEAST guarantee that everyone who chose to have faith in God, would concentrate it on the same God?

Surely he would have forseen the wars, chaos, prejudice, violence and bloodshed caused as a result of there being more than one God who was the Ultimate Being! Since he is a jealous, possessive God, surely he wouldn't have wanted the competition!

Why wouldn't he have made that curve in free will, and prevented it? We couldn't have known it was a trick, and still could have appreciated still having the choice To Believe or Not To Believe... as we (supposedly) only have the capability of understanding in the context he created for us.

Some will say "We cannot begin to understand the motives of God, because he is perfect and mankind can only struggle to be so perfect as to try to understand".

...but that's just par for the course.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

(Sad little girl standing in the aftermath of war, with a single tear trickling down from her watery eyes)

"God? Why'd you have to rest before your job was completely finished?"





[This message has been edited by AngryFemme (edited 03-28-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by AngryFemme:

That was actually quite an informative link, Drox!

Now the question we have to beg is:

Why did God cease what he was doing after that long six days' worth of creation, and not strive to perfect it more, like put some kind of "curve" into free will where it would AT LEAST guarantee that everyone who chose to have faith in God, would concentrate it on the same God?

Surely he would have forseen the wars, chaos, prejudice, violence and bloodshed caused as a result of there being more than one God who was the Ultimate Being! Since he is a jealous, possessive God, surely he wouldn't have wanted the competition!

Why wouldn't he have made that curve in free will, and prevented it? We couldn't have known it was a trick, and still could have appreciated still having the choice To Believe or Not To Believe... as we (supposedly) only have the capability of understanding in the context he created for us.

Some will say "We cannot begin to understand the motives of God, because he is perfect and mankind can only struggle to be so perfect as to try to understand".

...but that's just par for the course.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)



"Curve" free will.....what have you been smoking free will is free will he let them do all that,ofcoarse he saw it coming and sure he didnt want the competition but he let everything play out how mankind played it and if they chose wrong its not his fault.

BTW what part of all knowing dont you understand he chose the right way wether you think so or not.



[This message has been edited by SAMMY249 (edited 03-28-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by SAMMY249:

"Curve" free will.....what have you been smoking free will is free will

OhNo, SAMMY -

Free will is a concept of man, and since God created man, he could have made free will mean anything to man. In fact, if he wanted to ... he could have intervened somewhere around 1986 and just wiped the concept of free will right outta our noggins! HE'S GOD!

Deny it and you will admit to your God not being Omnipotent.

Edit: Unless you want to argue that free will cannot be tampered with by God because it is a Universal law that even God has to follow ... but that would open up a whole other can of worms.

(So help me, as absurd as it sounds - I've actually heard someone make that argument before)





[This message has been edited by AngryFemme (edited 03-28-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by SAMMY249:

"Curve" free will.....what have you been smoking free will is free will he let them do all that,ofcoarse he saw it coming and sure he didnt want the competition but he let everything play out how mankind played it and if they chose wrong its not his fault.



We're not truly free, though. We're unable to teleport, for instance.

A single limit on what we can do doesn't mean we don't have free will. The "free will" we have now is very limited as it is; putting AE's "curve" in it doesn't suddenly mean OMG WE'RE PUPPETS OUR LIVES ARE MEANINGLESS.

quote:Originally posted by AngryFemme:

OhNo, SAMMY -

In fact, if he wanted to ... he could have intervened somewhere around 1986 and just wiped the concept of free will right outta our noggins! HE'S GOD!



He could do that but why would He that dosnt prove anything.

You do realize that the Hebrew bible says 7 "yom" which was translated to "day". A more literal, and more close definition to yom would be an "age", or a stretch of time, or a long time. So god made the world in 7 yom, or 7 ages- not seven days.

quote:Originally posted by SAMMY249:

He could do that but why would He that dosnt prove anything.

It proves alot, actually.

If he's omniscient, he would have known that religious strife and the whole "My God can beat the shit out of your God" mentality would have caused great suffering for mankind, bringing out the worst in people and causing them to kill each other over it.

If he knew that and didn't do anything about it, then he's not benevolent, he's a sick and twisted weirdo who likes to watch suffering and confrontation, and ought to apply for a job as a videogame writer for Rockstar Games.

If He just didn't intend for it to work out that way, yet to His utter chagrin, it did - but since free will is in play, He can't do anything about it anyway - then He's not omnipotent ...He just claims to be.

If He just claims to be omniscient, benevolent and omnipotent but REALLY ISN'T, then he's a liar and a trickster!

and on and on and on and on and on, ad infinitum...

IT PROVES ALOT



[This message has been edited by AngryFemme (edited 03-28-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by AngryFemme:

It proves alot, actually.

If he's omniscient, he would have known that religious strife and the whole "My God can beat the shit out of your God" mentality would have caused great suffering for mankind, bringing out the worst in people and causing them to kill each other over it.

If he knew that and didn't do anything about it, then he's not benevolent, he's a sick and twisted weirdo who likes to watch suffering and confrontation, and ought to apply for a job as a videogame writer for Rockstar Games.

If He just didn't intend for it to work out that way, yet to His utter chagrin, it did - but since free will is in play, He can't do anything about it anyway - then He's not omnipotent ...He just claims to be.

If He just claims to be omniscient, benevolent and omnipotent but REALLY ISN'T, then he's a liar and a trickster!

and on and on and on and on and on, ad infinitum...

IT PROVES ALOT





Just because he knew it was going to happen and let it dosnt mean he likes it you idiot.

But He must approve of it, else He never would have allowed Himself to do it, now would He?

If He created something, and after further retrospect "didn't like it" ... couldn't He change it, if he were omnipotent? And more importantly, why didn't He already realize when He did it that it was going to come back and haunt Him later, causing Him to feel dislike for what He created?

Sammy? Are you starting to see it all unravel, just a little bit?

Go ahead and let some of that steam off your chest by insulting me. I know this must go down like a jagged pill for you.

You can vent at me if it helps you feel good again. Whatever makes you better come to grips with it, I'm all for it!

quote:Originally posted by SAMMY249:

Just because he knew it was going to happen and let it dosnt mean he likes it you idiot.

But if he doesn't like it, why not just change it?

He's GOD.

quote:Originally posted by AngryFemme:

But He must approve of it, else He never would have allowed Himself to do it, now would He?

If He created something, and after further retrospect "didn't like it" ... couldn't He change it, if he were omnipotent? And more importantly, why didn't He already realize when He did it that it was going to come back and haunt Him later, causing Him to feel dislike for what He created?

Sammy? Are you starting to see it all unravel, just a little bit?

Go ahead and let some of that steam off your chest by insulting me. I know this must go down like a jagged pill for you.

You can vent at me if it helps you feel good again. Whatever makes you better come to grips with it, I'm all for it!

1.He dosnt "allow" this to happen people have something called FREE WILL.

2.I dont know what you mean by "further retrospect" he always knew what was going to happen.

3.Yes he could change it dosnt mean he has to.

4.I dont know what you mean by "haunt him" seriously put down the pot.

5.He dosnt feel "dislike" its like your parents He is dissapointed but he still loves you.

As for the other stuff i was really unamused at your failed attempt to mislead the people in believing you are right.



[This message has been edited by SAMMY249 (edited 03-28-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by SAMMY249:



1.He dosnt "allow" this to happen people have something called FREE WILL.

Who created the concept of free will? God did? Well then, Sammy - you're going to have to at least admit that God created a "law" that turned out to not benefit neither Him (since he doesn't like it) nor us (since it gives us the choice to pick among many Gods, or no Gods at all, which is kind of detrimental to us getting to Heaven).

If you refuse to concede all that, which I'm sure you will, because you are a person who is seemingly incapable of trusting your own reasoning - then will you at least answer the question: Cui Bono?

WHO BENEFITS?!

quote:

2.I dont know what you mean by "further retrospect" he always knew what was going to happen.

So then he did it intentionally, knowing full well that it would force him in the future to send billions of his creations to burn in hell forever?

That's like adults giving little babies razorblades, knowing full well that MOST of them will cut themselves with it, and knowing full well they'll dislike having given it to the babies after they have to clean all the blood up from the floor... but what can ya do? Send those little bastards to Time Out! They should have known better than to cut themselves! They had a CHOICE of what to do with those razorblades!

If God is so powerful, more powerful and ultimate than is beyond the scope of our thinking - then the adult/baby analogy works well. Because He far surpasses us in knowledge and good intention, right? And we're basically just crawling around in the dark until He shines light in our confused little hearts, right?

quote:

3.Yes he could change it dosnt mean he has to.

He has to if he wants to call Himself Benevolent.

quote:

4.I dont know what you mean by "haunt him" seriously put down the pot.

You know exactly what I meant by using that phrase, Sammy. And you know damn well I wasn't using it literally, but as metaphor. You were just scrambling for another item to add to your list and was coming up empty-handed, so you decided to throw that in.

WEAK

I'll put down the herb when you put down the PCP pipe of Christianity that is making you delusional to the point of being completely impervious to everything being stated here.

quote: 5.He dosnt feel "dislike" its like your parents He is dissapointed but he still loves you.

Now Sammy, you specifically said: "he doesn't have to like it!" - but even so, if God can feel disappointment in his own work, then you HAVE to admit that he is less-than-perfect. If he created us, we are a direct result of his work.



[This message has been edited by AngryFemme (edited 03-28-2007).]

I have to go now so i will respond to this tomorrow.

EDIT:I dont have to wait till tomorrow to say this short statement, you say he is obligated to do these things if he is benevolent(which is not true)And all your other "points" spring from that well of delusion so no further debate is necessary with you.



[This message has been edited by SAMMY249 (edited 03-28-2007).]

Goodnight Sammy. Sleep tight, and stuff.

quote:Originally posted by AngryFemme:

Goodnight Sammy. Sleep tight, and stuff.

Why thank you http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Fallinghouse:

You said: "I'd look at from the other direction. Why would God need to take six whole days to create the universe?"

To play god's-advocate, I'd say that's easily answered. As simple as it may be made to sound in Genesis (saying Let there be Light/seas/people/etc, and there was), he was designing all of creation, not just slapping them into existence. Creation as an art, so to speak. Science tells you exactly how much that might involve.

I suppose it could be argued that if he were "omnipotent", he should have been able to do it instantly. However, the only place I seem to hear it claimed that God is "omnipotent" and "omniscient" are god's own followers... not the Bible. I have yet to find anyone that can point chapter and verse when pressed for information that says he is. Granted, that might just mean the people I argue with suck at knowing their own religious text, but w/e.

The whole problem with the idea of God creating the world in such detail, however, has been addressed. A complete lack of foresight on God's part into the nature of the beings he created in his own image. If i were a believer, I'd suspect he willfully instilled an element of chaos called "free will" in his creation so that he could see how it turned out when left to its own devices.

However, that's a pretty fucked up way of treating your creation, particularly when you've seen exactly what results. As the creator, the ultimate gardener, a little cultivation would be good if he's going to pretend he cares.

All assuming he exists, of course.

1 John 3:20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

Psalm 147:5 Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite.

Both were taken from the KJB and prove that the Abrahamic God is all-knowing. I couldn't find anything about him being all-powerful though.

Hare Gist:

You said: "Both were taken from the KJB and prove that the Abrahamic God is all-knowing. I couldn't find anything about him being all-powerful though."

I don't know if you're being sarcastic, but that doesn't really prove anything except that it's in the Bible. I realize that you may simply have been going for conciseness, and if so, I stand corrected. Such claims are in the Bible too, and I didn't know/remember that.

I should clarify the point I was making - I don't see any such claim by God in the Bible. The Psalms verse is David singing various praises of God, and the I John verse is also simply a claim made by a follower in a letter. Perhaps there's more to be offered, but isn't the extent of God's offered insight into himself, "I am what I am"?

It means work six days a week.

Think of how much more productive america would be if that was standard, ehh?

quote:Originally posted by Iehovah:

Perhaps there's more to be offered, but isn't the extent of God's offered insight into himself, "I am what I am"?



I thought that was Popeye.

could his resting be compared to resting after sex? God had sex with mother nature for 6 whole days and rested on the 7th. Now he has to take care of all the children that he created. Poor god...

quote:Originally posted by gunjah:

could his resting be compared to resting after sex? God had sex with mother nature for 6 whole days and rested on the 7th. Now he has to take care of all the children that he created. Poor god...

God is a deadbeat.

Twisted Ferret:

You said: "I thought that was Popeye."

Possible, sure. But the quote I was referring to is from Exodus 3:14. God telling Moses to go out and do his bidding, Moses asks who he should tell them the message is from. God sez, I AM THAT I AM.

I'd look at from the other direction. Why would God need to take six whole days to create the universe?


As with most things God does that is recorded in the Bible, the purpose is not for Himself, but for us.

The six days of work/one day of rest process was to teach humanity to do the same thing. The day of rest was to be a day of thanks and worship of God, called the Sabbath.

Congratulations, you've proved the christian creation myth false. Have a cookie.

Or he simply proved that he doesn't understand how minimalistic human thought is, and just how simple God had to make the Bible in order for us to understand it.

Want a child to clean it's room ? Sing a song about it.

As with most things God does that is recorded in the Bible, the purpose is not for Himself, but for us.

The six days of work/one day of rest process was to teach humanity to do the same thing. The day of rest was to be a day of thanks and worship of God, called the Sabbath.

He couldn't have just made the world at a click of his fingers, declared there to be seven days and then state that man must make Sunday (or Saturday, depending on who you talk to) a day of rest, worship and thanks?

You do realize that the Hebrew bible says 7 "yom" which was translated to "day". A more literal, and more close definition to yom would be an "age", or a stretch of time, or a long time. So god made the world in 7 yom, or 7 ages- not seven days.

Wrong (http://www.psyche.com/psyche/genesis/genesis1_1-5.html). It CAN mean "age" but it can also mean "day" and in Genesis 1 it clearly means day. The reference to the creation of light and its division into darkenss in conjunction with the purposeful illustration of their cycle (evening and morning) refutes this assertion.

As you read on, it is made abundantly clear that the author is discussing a 24 hour time span, because after each thing God accomplishes, the "sun sets". When He is ready to begin again, the "sun rises".

He couldn't have just made the world at a click of his fingers, declared there to be seven days and then state that man must make Sunday (or Saturday, depending on who you talk to) a day of rest, worship and thanks?

Sure. As with most things in the Bible, however, He prefers to give examples. There must be a necessity for this, else He would not have chosen that method of teaching.

Sure. As with most things in the Bible, however, He prefers to give examples. There must be a necessity for this, else He would not have chosen that method of teaching.

Well he could have just sung a song about keeping the 7th day holy, I'm sure. There appears to be no necessity whatsoever, but then I guess you can use the argument "there may not appear to be any necessity, but God works in ways we can't understand" so there's not really any point in arguing. *shrug*

Strictly speaking though, if God can do anything, then there's no necessity for anything to be the way it is since he can do anything and therefore do it the way I mentioned and have it work out identically.

Whether He does things your way or His is irrelevant and pointless to discuss, so I'm not sure why you're even putting any effort into doing so. You seem to be continuously convoluted by your own humanistic requirements for God's decisions/behavior.

As a side note, God leads by example. My analogy of getting children motivated to do things by singing songs was simplistic, but was intended to convey that the best method of getting a desired behavior out of people is not always the most complex, the simplest, or even the most evident.

I would assume that the almighty creator of the universe knew precisely which methods would be most useful/successful, and went about accordingly.

I would assume that the almighty creator of the universe knew precisely which methods would be most useful/successful, and went about accordingly.

If he can do anything (anything includes breaking logic), he can make any method the most successful method, so his decision to lead by example is arbitrary. Hence why him choosing 6 days over instantaneously popping the world into existence is odd and hence your argument that there must be some necessity for him doing something in a certain manner is odd.

I'm showing that it makes no sense. It's absolutely absurd. And it's down to each individual to choose whether or not to have faith in it because it makes absolutely no sense, and when people try and make sense out of it, it makes me seriously question their faith.

I was hoping this would be indirectly apparent from my second reply to you in this thread.

If he can do anything (anything includes breaking logic), he can make any method the most successful method, so his decision to lead by example is arbitrary. Hence why him choosing 6 days over instantaneously popping the world into existence is odd and hence your argument that there must be some necessity for him doing something in a certain manner is odd.[/b]

No, it's not. Because He did not choose your method (instantaneous) over the way He did do it (6 days, to give a metaphorical picture of our we were to utlilize our time) does not make His choice right or wrong. My application of the terminology "best" should not have distracted you from this abstract concept. Everything in the Bible is intended to TEACH. God knew the Bible would be a tool for this purpose, and His actions/methods/commandments prior to it's formation are designed for human consumption.

Also, while God can do anything (to include defying or operating outside of logic) our ordered universe and His own testimony in the Bible tell us that He would never do so. He is an orderly God, at all times mathematical and systematic.

I'm showing that it makes no sense. It's absolutely absurd. And it's down to each individual to choose whether or not to have faith in it because it makes absolutely no sense, and when people try and make sense out of it, it makes me seriously question their faith. Actually, you're showing that you're not God, and thus do not know what He was thinking, and you have been given the ability to question His motives/methodology. The only thing you could base your opinion on is the Bible, which I personally know you are woefully ignorant of. (That is not an insult, so please do not take it as one.)

No, it's not. Because He did not choose your method (instantaneous) over the way He did do it (6 days, to give a metaphorical picture of our we were to utlilize our time) does not make His choice right or wrong. My application of the terminology "best" should not have distracted you from this abstract concept. Everything in the Bible is intended to TEACH. God knew the Bible would be a tool for this purpose, and His actions/methods/commandments prior to it's formation are designed for human consumption.

I’ve not said anywhere in this thread that his method is wrong, I called it unnecessary and absurd. I’ve only asked if he could have done it any other way.

Also, while God can do anything (to include defying or operating outside of logic) our ordered universe and His own testimony in the Bible tell us that He would never do so. He is an orderly God, at all times mathematical and systematic.

If he can do anything, then he can possibly make more than one kind of orderly world. If he can do anything, then he can be lying to you through the Bible (I don't need to know the Bible to know that everything God says in it can be a lie if he can do anything, no matter how big the promise). Hence this whole thing of giving reasoned arguments for what appears absurd (and in my opinion is absurd) is going about things the wrong way. It all once again comes down to either having faith or not having faith.

Actually, you're showing that you're not God, and thus do not know what He was thinking, and you have been given the ability to question His motives/methodology.

Does it make sense to you? If not, then you’re in the same position as me and it goes back to what I was saying about having faith because if God can do anything, none of it appears a necessity.

You are making no sense because you say that if God can do anything He can also defy logic then you say he didnt do your "logical" approach to creating life then asking why he didnt do it instantly so according to YOU he broke logic to create the universe therefore He can do anything even break logic.

You are making no sense because you say that if God can do anything He can also defy logic then you say he didnt do your "logical" approach to creating life then asking why he didnt do it instantly so according to YOU he broke logic to create the universe therefore He can do anything even break logic.

You totally misunderstand what I'm arguing.

PS, I feel bad for taking your thread off topic, OP.