http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/cox95rate.html

OWNED!!! Theres proof right there that energy dies! now you guys can shut the hell up and quite giving me a hard time about quarks!

Now you know there will always be room for creation! and if something can die it had a begginig, and if it had a beggining something had to create it! i also found in my search that space is not exactly empty it is filled with energy and i suppose if the results of the big bang dont kill space first the energy decay will! and time cannot exist without space and vice versa!

ps. Ressotami believe me now? if you dont just search quark decay and it will tell you quarks die just for our little arguement.

quote:Originally posted by Masta Thief:

and if it had a beggining something had to create it!

That's not true.

So, uhh, Ress... you wanna do the thermodynamics lesson, or should I?

quote:Originally posted by xray:

Originally posted by Masta Thief:

and if it had a beggining something had to create it!

That's not true.



umm no it cannot create itself!!! retard! i never said God did it(although i think so) but i had to be created by something!

You were created by something, Masta Thief. The union of your father's sperm and your mother's ovum. BAM! There's cranky little baby Masta Thief in zygote form.

I personally wish he either would have pulled out, or that your mother would have feigned a headache that night.

quote:Originally posted by AngryFemme:

You were created by something, Masta Thief. The union of your father's sperm and your mother's ovum. BAM! There's cranky little baby Masta Thief in zygote form.

I personally wish he either would have pulled out, or that your mother would have feigned a headache that night.

Why this is not religous? its your science! dumbasses! its not like i put a gun to the particle accelerators operator's head and told them to say energy dies, just to own you! all im saying is that something had to create it! its common sense that if something can die it had a beggining! not so, would create paradoxes! im not saying God did it although i believe so, its proof of what i said about energy in earlier topics!

[This message has been edited by Masta Thief (edited 03-28-2007).]

so you believe something has to be created. Because something cant come from nothing.

Yet god can create something from nothing. And god itself didnt even have to be created in the first place.

[This message has been edited by boozehound420 (edited 03-28-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by boozehound420:

so you believe something has to be created. Because something cant come from nothing.

Yet god can create something from nothing. And god itself didnt even have to be created in the first place.



God was never created he is infinate! as all religions believe! and yes it would be a paradox if something could come from nothing!

quote:Originally posted by Masta Thief:

God was never created he is infinate! as all religions believe! and yes it would be a paradox if something could come from nothing!

God is infnite, and he can create something from nothing.

Ya, well for a person who isnt going to jump to conclusions without evidence, the statement that god is infinite doesnt work. Its the old "god did it" when you cant explain something.



[This message has been edited by boozehound420 (edited 03-28-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by boozehound420:

Ya, well for a person who isnt going to jump to conclusions without evidence, the statement that god is infinite doesnt work. Its the old "god did it" when you cant explain something.

No! God to every religions beliefs is infinite! the after life is infinite! and its not something i cant explain i just see the answer right in front of me!

quote:Originally posted by Masta Thief:

No! God to every religions beliefs is infinite! the after life is infinite! and its not something i cant explain i just see the answer right in front of me!

Yes it IS something you cant explain.

My answer to that problem is on day we will be able to explain it.

Either explain how god has always been, and he was just fucken around then decided to create the universe out of bordom.

or Explain how the matter and energy of the universe came to be by itself.

My bet is the matter and energy came to be, not god. Simple atoms is more plausible then a highly advanced conscience with the ability to create whatever it wants, how ever it wants and infinite knowledge of how everything should work.

quote:Originally posted by boozehound420:

Yes it IS something you cant explain.

My answer to that problem is on day we will be able to explain it.

Either explain how god has always been, and he was just fucken around then decided to create the universe out of bordom.

or Explain how the matter and energy of the universe came to be by itself.

My bet is the matter and energy came to be, not god. Simple atoms is more plausible then a highly advanced conscience with the ability to create whatever it wants, how ever it wants and infinite knowledge of how everything should work.

ok but hoping for a paradox to explain it is illogical!

quote:Originally posted by Masta Thief:

ok but hoping for a paradox to explain it is illogical!



theres no fucking paradox.

God is infinite.

The universe is infinite.

THere the fucking same at this point in our scientific knowledge. We need further study before we can go forward.

ow and your example is talking about how something in MOTION can die. Motion is a type of energy. And with friction (as in your example) motion energy will die. But it is transfered into something else, heat etc.

its all cyclic.

quote:Originally posted by boozehound420:

theres no fucking paradox.

God is infinite.

The universe is infinite.

THere the fucking same at this point in our scientific knowledge. We need further study before we can go forward.

ok first you comment below- no energy decays because quarks decay! and all energy is made of quarks!

Now on this comment- the Universe is not infinite! have you ever wondered what the consequences of an expanding universe by the big bang are(which is the most logical scientific explanation for the universe is)? an expanding universe will eventually get so big that one of the two effects will happen

1. it will get so big that it will start to dissapear and rip atoms apart untill it becomes nothing!

2. it will get so big that in a rubberband like effect it will contract and topple itself destroying the universe!

thats if energy doesnt destroy it first! in my search i found out that space is not exactly empty! its filled with energy so in a way space is energy! and if that energy dies which it will then space will not exist! so no it is not infinite! eventually it is inevitable that it will be destroyed!

ps. none of this info comes from christian resources its just plain old science, the science that has tried to disprove God!

pss. so yes you are waiting for a paradox because if something can create itslef from nothing having never existed before with no help is a paradox!

conclusion- not believing in something creating the universe is illogical! for now at least!

Sorry to disappoint you Masta Thief, but boozehound420 has it right. The energy isn't actually vanishing, despite the language used in the abstract. It gets turned into heat. When the authors say the energy is vanishing, they mean from the string.

quote:Originally posted by Martini:

Sorry to disappoint you Masta Thief, but boozehound420 has it right. The energy isn't actually vanishing, despite the language used in the abstract. It gets turned into heat. When the authors say the energy is vanishing, they mean from the string.

Ok but sorry to dissapoint but you dont know why the energy dissapears!?! Its because quarks decay and quarks make up everything and all types of energy! heat is energy moron and thus the quarks will decay and eventually dissapear!

there is no scientific proof for what will happen next in the universe, there all hypotheses. The universe IS expanding, theres no doubt about that. String theory suggests that the big bang could be the collision of two parallel universes or "membranes". And its a continues process.

If the universe colapses back in on itself, it would then most likely expand again.

And I'm not even shur what a quark fucking is. Its not energy as you seem to think though. With 5 minutes of study i have found out that they interact with 4 fundemental forces. Gravity, nuclear and electromagnetism (strong and weak). All which are energy themselves. So it sounds like you've misunderstood what your trying to find out.

And when i looked up quarks decaying. I couldnt find any mention of them dissapearing. "DECAY" as being used in these models is the transfermation form one quart to another.

[This message has been edited by boozehound420 (edited 03-29-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by boozehound420:

there is no scientific proof for what will happen next in the universe, there all hypotheses. The universe IS expanding, theres no doubt about that. String theory suggests that the big bang could be the collision of two parallel universes or "membranes". And its a continues process.

If the universe colapses back in on itself, it would then most likely expand again.

And I'm not even shur what a quark fucking is. Its not energy as you seem to think though. With 5 minutes of study i have found out that they interact with 4 fundemental forces. Gravity, nuclear and electromagnetism (strong and weak). All which are energy themselves. So it sounds like you've misunderstood what your trying to find out.

And when i looked up quarks decaying. I couldnt find any mention of them dissapearing. "DECAY" as being used in these models is the transfermation form one quart to another.



WOW you idiot, if you dont know nothing about it dont talk! Quarks make up energy i cant believe you would argue that if you dont know about it! yes quarks decay and quarks make up ALL energy! without quarks there is no energy thats what protons and neutrons are made of moron!

i realize you dont want to exept this but it is true and its not a religous scam! its not even something a religous arguement would even use! its called particle accelerators! they figured out energy would eventually die! and space is energy so space is made up of quarks too so therefor its not infinate even if the universe doesnt destroy itself! were damned either way!

please dont take offense! im just explaining the science you dont know yet, but you will soon!(i hope)

yes they decay into others but eventually stop forming others! it dies dude exept it!

[This message has been edited by Masta Thief (edited 03-29-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by Masta Thief:

WOW you idiot, if you dont know nothing about it dont talk! Quarks make up energy i cant believe you would argue that if you dont know about it! yes quarks decay and quarks make up ALL energy! without quarks there is no energy thats what protons and neutrons are made of moron!

i realize you dont want to exept this but it is true and its not a religous scam! its not even something a religous arguement would even use! its called particle accelerators! they figured out energy would eventually die! and space is energy so space is made up of quarks too so therefor its not infinate even if the universe doesnt destroy itself! were damned either way!

please dont take offense! im just explaining the science you dont know yet, but you will soon!(i hope)

yes they decay into others but eventually stop forming others! it dies dude exept it!



Energy is not a particle, energy is not visible. Particle accelerators, (slaming atoms togethor) revealed dozens and dozens of different particles (including quarks). Energy is what makes quarks interact with other particles. If quarks are energy, how come the first thing i found was talking how quarks interact with 4 of the forces(energy)? There are some particles that only interact with nuclear, or gravity etc.

Find me one paper that ses Energy and quarks are the same thing. And Quarks dissapear.

If this is true, and has been observed there should be shitloads of papers published talking about it. The discoveries coming out of these billion dollar atom smashers is highly publisized.

quote:Originally posted by Masta Thief:

Ok but sorry to dissapoint but you dont know why the energy dissapears!?! Its because quarks decay and quarks make up everything and all types of energy! heat is energy moron and thus the quarks will decay and eventually dissapear!

Why are you calling me a moron? Energy does not disappear. No, energy cannot be destroyed. It can, however, be lost from a system via interaction with the ambient environment by acoustic, thermal, viscous, impact, electromagnetic, gravitational, or other interactions.

Energy can be made inaccessible, however, by increasing local entropy such that it is impossible to extract all energy from a system; in terms of the Second Law of Thermodynamics, the temperature of your high temperature reservoir and low temperature reservoir would be the same so that you can't pump energy from the former to the latter in order to do work. So, you still have all the energy, but no way to use it, kind of like being in the desert. As David Mamet says, "You don't want to go there."

quote:Originally posted by AngryFemme:

You were created by something, Masta Thief. The union of your father's sperm and your mother's ovum. BAM! There's cranky little baby Masta Thief in zygote form.

I personally wish he either would have pulled out, or that your mother would have feigned a headache that night.

He should have been a blow job.

I recommend not arguing with him anymore.. this is precious time that we will never get back... and all for what?

quote:Originally posted by boozehound420:

Energy is not a particle, energy is not visible. Particle accelerators, (slaming atoms togethor) revealed dozens and dozens of different particles (including quarks). Energy is what makes quarks interact with other particles. If quarks are energy, how come the first thing i found was talking how quarks interact with 4 of the forces(energy)? There are some particles that only interact with nuclear, or gravity etc.

Find me one paper that ses Energy and quarks are the same thing. And Quarks dissapear.

If this is true, and has been observed there should be shitloads of papers published talking about it. The discoveries coming out of these billion dollar atom smashers is highly publisized.

http://education.jlab.org/qa/quark_04.html

right there! what is energy made of? protons and neutrons, what are they mad of? QUARKS! which just so happen to die off if you could see an image of how they work you would understand!

I dont think masters ever ended a sentence with a period. all those exclamation points are fucking annoying. please stop because that would just be another reason for me to stop reading your posts

"The proton itself is a bound state of three quarks (two up and one down; one red, one green and one blue). However, unlike the case of the hydrogen atom, the individual quarks can never be isolated. See confinement."

wikipedia - under, bound state composite particles.

Right there, protons are made of quarks.

From wikipedia - Energy

"Measurement

There is no absolute measure of energy. Rather energy is measured in terms of the transition of a system from one state into another"

"Energy is subject to the law of conservation of energy. According to this law, energy can neither be created (produced) nor destroyed. It can only be transformed."

So it sounds like your statement is fucked from the start. Back to the drawing board i guess. Unless you have refrences to what your saying, since i did only look at wiki for now.

quote:Originally posted by Masta Thief:

ht tp://educa tion.jlab. org/qa/qua rk_04.html (http: //educatio n.jlab.org /qa/quark_ 04.html)

right there! what is energy made of? protons and neutrons,

Woooow, that explains where your getting this thinking from.

Protons and neutrons are NOT energy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy

quote:Originally posted by Masta Thief:

[QUOTE]right there! what is energy made of? protons and neutrons, what are they mad of? QUARKS! which just so happen to die off if you could see an image of how they work you would understand!

We die off too, Masta Thief, but energy does not. Not one of your cites make the claim that energy dies off.

Quarks decay in photons, other practicals, and other quarks.

Here is the first example I could find http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pion

quote:Originally posted by Masta Thief:

WOW you idiot, if you dont know nothing about it dont talk! Quarks make up energy i cant believe you would argue that if you dont know about it! yes quarks decay and quarks make up ALL energy! without quarks there is no energy thats what protons and neutrons are made of moron!

i realize you dont want to exept this but it is true and its not a religous scam! its not even something a religous arguement would even use! its called particle accelerators! they figured out energy would eventually die! and space is energy so space is made up of quarks too so therefor its not infinate even if the universe doesnt destroy itself! were damned either way!

please dont take offense! im just explaining the science you dont know yet, but you will soon!(i hope)

yes they decay into others but eventually stop forming others! it dies dude exept it!





Oh man, I swore I would never reply to you again, but the abuse of scientific knowledge (or lack of it) is almost suffocating.

Masta Thief, please pay attention to me -

1) - The acticle you posted is NOT talking about how energy dies. Like someone else here stated before, it is about energy being transfered from the string. They seem to be doing this in part by dampening. It is even mentioned in the little excerpt below the abstract

quote: This model of an elastic string with boundary damping is well known...

Energy does NOT die. It can only be conserved, not created and destroyed. Ask a teacher



2)Quarks do not make up energy.

The common definition of energy from early high school physics is 'a measure of force that has been applied over a distance over time.' Energy is actually a MEASUREMENT, a scalar quantity that deals with the state/condition of one or a number of objects.

Quarks are not a unit of measure, to my knowledge. Therefore they can not make up energy.

If this is too broad, go see your science teacher. They might give a clearer definition.



3)You seem to think everything is made up of quarks. Quarks are only one of many fundamental particles.

Allow me to list the others -

Electron, muon, tau, electron neutrino, muon neutrino and tau neutrino - these are known as the leptons.

Up, down, strange, top, bottom and charm - These are the quarks.

Quarks and leptons make up what we call Fermions. There is a second group called bosons.

These are made up of - Gluons, W and Z bosons, photons, Higgs boson and gravitons.

These are all the fundamental particles of physics.

This means we cannot split them into anything smaller.

Note that they are not all quarks.



Most of that probably came across as jibberish. But I hope that you understand that you are far, far out of your depth.



If you are still confident in you idea of 'quarks is energy!!! it cn be destroyed!' - go ask the people of Mad Scientists. Go on

I DARE YOU



[This message has been edited by flatplat (edited 03-29-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by Masta Thief:

ok first you comment below- no energy decays because quarks decay! and all energy is made of quarks!

Now on this comment- the Universe is not infinite! have you ever wondered what the consequences of an expanding universe by the big bang are(which is the most logical scientific explanation for the universe is)? an expanding universe will eventually get so big that one of the two effects will happen

1. it will get so big that it will start to dissapear and rip atoms apart untill it becomes nothing!

2. it will get so big that in a rubberband like effect it will contract and topple itself destroying the universe!

thats if energy doesnt destroy it first! in my search i found out that space is not exactly empty! its filled with energy so in a way space is energy! and if that energy dies which it will then space will not exist! so no it is not infinite! eventually it is inevitable that it will be destroyed!

ps. none of this info comes from christian resources its just plain old science, the science that has tried to disprove God!

pss. so yes you are waiting for a paradox because if something can create itslef from nothing having never existed before with no help is a paradox!

conclusion- not believing in something creating the universe is illogical! for now at least!

"The big rip" is actually a theory of how the universe will cease to exist.

To me it holds as much merit, as your god.

hands up who has studied this level of physics? because this is _not_ the kind of thing you can read about on wikipedia and then argue.

no one?

well, that settles it, your all talking out of your arses.

i can misinterpret things to further my own agenda too!

quote:Originally posted by flatplat:

Energy does NOT die. It can only be conserved, not created and destroyed. Ask a teacher



2)Quarks do not make up energy.

The common definition of energy from early high school physics is 'a measure of force that has been applied over a distance over time.' Energy is actually a MEASUREMENT, a scalar quantity that deals with the state/condition of one or a number of objects.

Quarks are not a unit of measure, to my knowledge. Therefore they can not make up energy.

If this is too broad, go see your science teacher. They might give a clearer definition.



3)You seem to think everything is made up of quarks. Quarks are only one of many fundamental particles.

Allow me to list the others -

Electron, muon, tau, electron neutrino, muon neutrino and tau neutrino - these are known as the leptons.

Up, down, strange, top, bottom and charm - These are the quarks.

Quarks and leptons make up what we call Fermions. There is a second group called bosons.

These are made up of - Gluons, W and Z bosons, photons, Higgs boson and gravitons.

These are all the fundamental particles of physics.

This means we cannot split them into anything smaller.

Note that they are not all quarks.



Most of that probably came across as jibberish. But I hope that you understand that you are far, far out of your depth.



If you are still confident in you idea of 'quarks is energy!!! it cn be destroyed!' - go ask the people of Mad Scientists. Go on

I DARE YOU



ok guys ill admit i was a bit off! it was more a lack of better teaching than anything! the man i learned this from didnt specify which is my bad! but id just like to say that energy is matter and quarks make up matter and i guess they still make energy to i guess.

but i did learn that energy does die but when it does it spouts out two more or something like that! and i also was told that since it is multiplying then that leaves room for a creation!



please no flames, atleast i can admit im wrong when most people here cant!

quote:Originally posted by Masta Thief:

ok guys ill admit i was a bit off! it was more a lack of better teaching than anything! the man i learned this from didnt specify which is my bad! but id just like to say that energy is matter and quarks make up matter and i guess they still make energy to i guess.

but i did learn that energy does die but when it does it spouts out two more or something like that! and i also was told that since it is multiplying then that leaves room for a creation!



please no flames, atleast i can admit im wrong when most people here cant!

Good Try. At least in your journey to disprove science you've learned something, and taught me about quarks.

quote:Originally posted by Masta Thief:

and i also was told that since it is multiplying then that leaves room for a creation!

Energy doesn't multiply.

You don't need to make room for creation. Most atheists don't argue that the existence of a gods is impossible (although highly improbable), just that there's no evidence that any exist and because of this, belief in one is based on faith.

quote:Originally posted by xray:

Originally posted by Masta Thief:

and i also was told that since it is multiplying then that leaves room for a creation!

Energy doesn't multiply.

You don't need to make room for creation. Most atheists don't argue that the existence of a gods is impossible (although highly improbable), just that there's no evidence that any exist and because of this, belief in one is based on faith.



holy shit no more arguements please, if you jave doubt ill check then to make sure my teacher aint a retard!

quote:Originally posted by Masta Thief:

holy shit no more arguements please

If you don't want more arguments, don't post scientific accuracies. It's a basic law of thermodynamics that energy can not be created or destroyed. If this is something you need to check with your teacher, you have no business trying to prove via quarks the possibility of a creating god.

quote:Originally posted by xray:

Originally posted by Masta Thief:

holy shit no more arguements please

If you don't want more arguments, don't post scientific accuracies. It's a basic law of thermodynamics that energy can not be created or destroyed. If this is something you need to check with your teacher, you have no business trying to prove via quarks the possibility of a creating god.

Please no more flames!

Well i'm sorry i'm a bit late, It seems everything i would have said has already been said Masta thief.

I've not been "owned"

Energy does not die.

PLEASE do some research.

quote:Originally posted by Blades of Hate:

Good Try. At least in your journey to disprove science you've learned something, and taught me about quarks.

I doubt he learn't anything. He still mentioned that energy multiplies, which it doesn't, and I posted a bunch of quotes explaining how it didn't. But I to now know what a quark is thanks to this thread.

Masta thief, your argument should say this.

Quarks transform then eventually die off. Protons and neutrons are made up of quarks. Therefor matter is dissapearing out of our universe, leaving room for creation. Even know i don't agree with the last part. Leaving energy out of the mix all together.

But to say that, first you have to find us some resources to read about particles at the quantum level disappearing(quantum mechanics is fucked so you might be right on that)

If you can do that then we can have a debate on what it means.

[This message has been edited by boozehound420 (edited 03-29-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by boozehound420:

I doubt he learn't anything. He still mentioned that energy multiplies, which it doesn't, and I posted a bunch of quotes explaining how it didn't. But I to now know what a quark is thanks to this thread.

Masta thief, your argument should say this.

Quarks transform then eventually die off. Protons and neutrons are made up of quarks. Therefor matter is dissapearing out of our universe, leaving room for creation. Even know i don't agree with the last part. Leaving energy out of the mix all together.

But to say that, first you have to find us some resources to read about particles at the quantum level disappearing(quantum mechanics is fucked so you might be right on that)

If you can do that then we can have a debate on what it means.



eh,, i tried here! lol but owell thanks for not flaming!

ps. Ressotami seems you win! and i did do research but to late after a gay teacher confused the hell out of me!

quote:Originally posted by Masta Thief:

eh,, i tried here! lol but owell thanks for not flaming!

ps. Ressotami seems you win! and i did do research but to late after a gay teacher confused the hell out of me!

Whaaa?!?!? You can be reasoned with? and all his time we all thought we were just hitting tennis balls against a wall.

Take that as a complement and not a flame

[This message has been edited by Q777 (edited 03-30-2007).]

At least your looking for answers. We all make mistakes and it's good that you can aknowledge them and perhaps learn from them. Sounds like you just got excited.

Wow, i just read all of that. Took me a while but i got there.

First off, let me just say that good job Masta Thief for admitting that you where wrong. i am glad that you can be reasoned with and are actually looking for answers. as posted above it looks like you just got a little over excited.

Secondly, thank you flatplat, your explanation was wicked and im sure helped alot of people out. Including me.

finally, at the start had a basic understanding of quarks and leptons. Since then my knowledge has increased greatly, and so has my curiosity.



[This message has been edited by perfect chaos (edited 03-30-2007).]

Who managed to slip the chill pill in Masta Thief's drink when he wasn't looking?

Atta poster!

I'm shocked, I wasn't actaully expecting a reply. Masta Thief still isn't quite on the right track, but its an improvement. And he admitted he was wrong! I applaud him for doing that.

I'm also shocked that first year physics actaully came in handy for something.

I created you guys, so shut the fuk up.