Lately my level of resentment for Christianity has grown alot. I've almost gotten to the point of taking Dawkin's and other atheist scientists' advice of not even debating them, because they ignore you in the first place, and debating them only lends credence to their pathetic arguments. Listening to Christians discuss their rubbish almost disgusts me. I've gotten to the point that I actually lose a bit of respect for someone, right off the bat, if I find out they are Christian. It's like, the same damn thought process as Scientology, only with more time and believers. I feel like I have to "dumb down" my speech when talking to Christians about philosophy or science. Their religion teaches them to believe "as a child does", so I feel like I have to treat them like children.

Does anyone else here feel this level of resentment or disgust (I don't know why I'm asking; I'm sure at least some people here do)? It's not that I "hate" Christians. It's just that they're like mildly retarded people, only by choice. Like they want to not think. Sorry if this seems kind of "out of nowhere". I've been on a board for homeschool alumni that is full of Christians and the constant stupidity just pushed me a little too far today. http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif)

To my mind, religious people are people that can't think for themselves, and willingly submit to someone elses beliefs, just because it is easier than thinking for themselves.

I genuinely pitty anyone that can't think for themselves. If I decide to talk to someone, I want to hear their views, not the view that is shoved down their throats all the time by their church.

So no, I am not disgusted by them. I just feel sorry that they will never be able to think for themselves, and experience everything this world has to offer....

quote:Originally posted by Elephantitis Man:

I've gotten to the point that I actually lose a bit of respect for someone, right off the bat, if I find out they are Christian.

This is one of the few instances when I don't support the "fight fire with fire" adage. I've lost respect for the concept of faith entirely, but I still attempt getting through to the actual human inside the box that is the picture of false certainty.

I feel it's energy better spent trying to convince, and assimilate like-minded individuals into promoting a more humanistic perspective rather than shut out people entirely. Shutting out that huge of a percentage of the world would be difficult to do, even in theory.

quote:

Does anyone else here feel this level of resentment or disgust (I don't know why I'm asking; I'm sure at least some people here do)? It's not that I "hate" Christians. It's just that they're like mildly retarded people, only by choice. Like they want to not think. Sorry if this seems kind of "out of nowhere". I've been on a board for homeschool alumni that is full of Christians and the constant stupidity just pushed me a little too far today.

Try understanding that their emotional investment is so great in their faith, that it's like having a cataract on the part of the brain that helps you identify with people. That simile is not supposed to insinuate that they're stupid or ignorant, but that they're clouded in judgement because of their deep-seated attachment to it.

Suggesting that they have some kind of mental deficit that renders them incapable of holding a rational worldview is freeing them of taking accountability and responsibility for their choices.

How humanity has come this far without recognizing as a whole how much having a religious faith impedes both personal and social growth is beyond me.

quote:Originally posted by AngryFemme:

How humanity has come this far without recognizing as a whole how much having a religious faith impedes both personal and social growth is beyond me.



I agree. I think the reason I carry less sympathy than you is that I used to be a Christian (for about 15 years of my life). It's like, after I finally "snapped out of it", I really want to just grab Christians and shout "Wake the fuck up!" (figuratively speaking, of course). I was as Christian as anyone could be. I don't know if anyone on here remembers, but I used to debate atheists on this very board about a year ago. I can even remember the thread that started my journey to deconversion. It was a thread by someone entitle "Who are some of your favorite atheist speakers?". Someone posted a link to a debate between Dan Barker (an apostate minister) and some dude on a Christian radio show. Intrigued at the idea of a deconverted minister of 20 years, I listened and my adventure in freethought began.

I just wish I could find that "sweetspot" in everyone. It took some particular argument, a particular verbage, for it to finally begin to "click" and for the hamster to start running in my head. After trying alot, it seems like most Christians have no such "sweetspot". I've tried arguments of every angle on different kinds of Christians and to no avail. Is it just me? Do some people not have a capacity for reason? If they do, they have to have a point at which they can "click", and understand the lunacy of their current beliefs. Why is it so hard to find?! http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif) http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)

I don't spend much time talking to moderates. I live in the Bible Belt, and nearly every Christian I know is a fundie or borderline fundie. If you've never been in such an environment, I can say that it really gets to you.

quote:Originally posted by Elephantitis Man:

I agree. I think the reason I carry less sympathy than you is that I used to be a Christian (for about 15 years of my life).

And I, for about the exact same time, except that I don't count the infant/toddler years when that kinda stuff just doesn't cohere to the mind.

quote:

I live in the Bible Belt, and nearly every Christian I know is a fundie or borderline fundie. If you've never been in such an environment, I can say that it really gets to you.

I can vouch for this ^ It runs deep in the south.

Edit:

I like using "The Ugly Baby Syndrome" to remind me to keep my perspectives towards religious people just short of outright intolerance. Some kind of value has to be attributed to WHY people of faith are so steadfast in their beliefs, despite it being more of a hindrance than a help to them.





[This message has been edited by AngryFemme (edited 03-30-2007).]

For most of my life I have been in a Christian environment. I made it through Boy Scouts sidestepping religion, even in my Eagle Board of Revue. I don't flat out try to argue or convince Christians, I give them little interesting tidbits of info. Like today my dad called me and asked if I was coming home for Easter. I told him I could celebrate the Pagan Spring Fertility holiday here at school.

I would absolutely demolish some fundies in my English class last semester. We often had debates when we were writing arguments. Everything for their points came from the bible. I berated them because they ate pork and wore wool cotton blends. During the abortion debate I had them stumbling and backpedaling. I quoted the verse in numbers that equates a fetus's life to a fine. Also I asked them why aren't they so morally opposed to bestiality. Why shouldn't we dole out the death penalty for it because thats what is warranted in the bible. When they were speechless and uttering unrecognizable words made me realize that I want to become a lawyer.

I do.

It saddens me when i first talk to people and they say (real perky-like) "Oh ya totally im a christian."

I just kinda shrug and feel that they're just lost to a system where teh child believes what the parents say and they never had a chance to think for themselves.

I see theology the same way I do narcissism: a method of self-preservation. This world has billions of people aching for death and too fucking afraid to kill themselves. They ask themselves 'Why does nothing scare me more than anything that's real?' and they come up with 'Because God wants me to live.'

Fuck you. God doesn't ask shit of you except birth and death...this sacrifice shit, prayer, meditation, and anything else you think your God demands of you is total bullshit. It's YOU that demands it, because you suffered some fucking trauma and couldn't stand up to it using your god-given abilities, you had to make up some crazy shit about divine purpose and so on...get over it.

^

my view, of course. Ignore it if you want.

quote:Originally posted by Elephantitis Man:

I've gotten to the point that I actually lose a bit of respect for someone, right off the bat, if I find out they are Christian.

Exactlly.

quote:Originally posted by Elephantitis Man:

I don't flat out try to argue or convince Christians, I give them little interesting tidbits of info. Like today my dad called me and asked if I was coming home for Easter. I told him I could celebrate the Pagan Spring Fertility holiday here at school.

Its normally the best way to get through to them. They'll listen to little tidbits, but completly block you out during a debate.

I both hate and am grateful towards Christianity. I hate it for being such a tremendous lie that I was indoctrinated with at such a young age, yet I'm grateful towards it since it was breaking its chains that caused be to begin asking questions and get interested in philosophy.

Amor Fati and all that.

And i see you as a sick perversion of society! A man is judged by the philosphy in which he follows, you follow none! You are a sick parasite and thats all you amount to in life! Tell me what makes you so much better than us Christians? Do you really think your smart because your considered a free thinker? I dont see you in Harvard! You are nothing!

quote:Originally posted by Masta Thief:

And i see you as a sick perversion of society! A man is judged by the philosphy in which he follows, you follow none! You are a sick parasite and thats all you amount to in life! Tell me what makes you so much better than us Christians? Do you really think your smart because your considered a free thinker? I dont see you in Harvard! You are nothing!

You're cute. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Masta Thief:

And i see you as a sick perversion of society! A man is judged by the philosphy in which he follows, you follow none! You are a sick parasite and thats all you amount to in life! Tell me what makes you so much better than us Christians? Do you really think your smart because your considered a free thinker? I dont see you in Harvard! You are nothing!

Now is that the kind of thing Jesus would say?

quote:Originally posted by Hare_Geist:

You're cute. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Please dont say that?

quote:Originally posted by ---Beany---:

Now is that the kind of thing Jesus would say?

Idk, telling the truth was never a sin!

Masta Thief, you are in dire need of a Group Hug.

Something tells me you weren't handled much, as a pup. Thus, all the hostility.

quote:Originally posted by Masta Thief:

Idk, telling the truth was never a sin!

I never said it was a sin. But you claim to be a christian. Christians are supposed to follow jesus's example, and your post is seriously lacking Jesus-like qualities.

quote:Originally posted by ---Beany---:

I never said it was a sin. But you claim to be a christian. Christians are supposed to follow jesus's example, and your post is seriously lacking Jesus-like qualities.

just human! and i tell the truth i cant lie and say your an outstanding citizen who is smart!

quote:Originally posted by Masta Thief:

just human! and i tell the truth i cant lie and say your an outstanding citizen who is smart!

judge not, lest ye be judged

quote:Originally posted by Masta Thief:

And i see you as a sick perversion of society! A man is judged by the philosphy in which he follows, you follow none! You are a sick parasite and thats all you amount to in life! Tell me what makes you so much better than us Christians? Do you really think your smart because your considered a free thinker? I dont see you in Harvard! You are nothing!

Considering this post is from a Christian, I consider it a compliment.

I am personally irritated by religion of any kind, and although I see how it served a purpose in humanities growth up to the renaissance, after that it just causes irrational bloodshed.

I live in a rather irreverent enviroment and the fact is most of the people I know are horny drunks who have never gone to church a day in their life. When it comes to the topic of religion they couldnt care less but when I ask them if they believe in god, heaven and afterlife they always say yes. And they cannot ever come up with one fact, they just believe it.

I think religion is simply the opium of the masses and people are hearing what they want to hear and will never back down unless they come to their own conclusion!

Thats my ramble

(and Masta Thief, your smoking that opium!!!)



[This message has been edited by None Other (edited 04-01-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by Masta Thief:

Please dont say that?

Come to me, baby. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

Careful, HG! You might eat those words if he takes you up on it.

I remember "fearing" God when I was around 11 or 12. I would pray out of my own incentive at night, without my mom needing to tell me to. I remember actually believing god was always watching through the looking glass. My imagination ran wild with thoughts of getting into heaven and things like swear words made me cringe whenever I heard them. I don't remember what exactly it was that triggered the snowball that became an avalanche, but I sure am thankful as fuck that it happened. I was all set up to be a hardcore catholic. By the time of my confirmation I was already atheist though. I only followed through with it because my parents made me. Again, I'm not sure what it was that triggered the ultimate loss in faith, but I am pretty sure that it was my own strong curiosity that made me a strict believer in the first place that snapped me out of it. I can honestly remember thinking to myself in my head "what about dinosaurs", and then asking one of my aunts who told me "dinosaurs are just a lie by scientists, they take alligator bones and then use clay to make them bigger." Not out of rebelliousness or hate for my parents(I was the biggest goody-2 you can think of) like most here get to it, but out of plain curiosity over-analyzed and over-thought all the stories. It was just in me.

Ok I hijacked my own train of though. I originally meant to get to the point that it's just hell of a strong "feeling" for those that truly believe. Those that don't may just be defensive(people never like to be told theyre wrong, especially about something that's lasted all their lives) or stubborn, or afraid. One recurring argument I hear is "well I've got nothing to lose, because if I'm wrong then nothing happens but if I'm right I go to hell." Out of pity I dont take it further at this point and tell them that with that kind of mindset they dont believe with their hearts and are already condemned to hell if there is one.

[This message has been edited by Zay (edited 04-01-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by Hexadecimal:

I see theology the same way I do narcissism: a method of self-preservation. This world has billions of people aching for death and too fucking afraid to kill themselves. They ask themselves 'Why does nothing scare me more than anything that's real?' and they come up with 'Because God wants me to live.'

Fuck you. God doesn't ask shit of you except birth and death...this sacrifice shit, prayer, meditation, and anything else you think your God demands of you is total bullshit. It's YOU that demands it, because you suffered some fucking trauma and couldn't stand up to it using your god-given abilities, you had to make up some crazy shit about divine purpose and so on...get over it.

^

my view, of course. Ignore it if you want.

umm make up your mind. you either need to repent for your 'sins' or you already know god is goign to forgive you. the problem with PEOPLE these days, is that they think they know 'god' on a personal level, and quite honestly. you're all fucking talking to yourselves. so the next time you pray, whisper to yourself, 'sweet dreams and sleep tight,' because really god ain't gonna say that shit to you. not unless you pray next to a burning bush.. now maybe THAT may give you an answer, but it's all good.

quote:Originally posted by Zay:

[...] I dont take it further at this point and tell them that with that kind of mindset they dont believe with their hearts and are already condemned to hell if there is one.



I never understood why Christians (Jews, Muslims whatever) insist that one must "believe" in God in order to be accepted by said God. Being a good person should be enough... I have an inkling that it has to do more to do with believing in the particular brand of faith than in believing in a divinity. It all breaks down to control... organized religion is a form of mind control.