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Masta Thief
2007-04-02, 03:42
There is much that even a superficial examiner will discover about the Bible that recommends it as the true, timeless revelation of God to man. The Bible succinctly addresses both origins and future events, credibly answering the three greatest questions (whence? whither? and wherefore?). It marshals the full contingent of rhetorical instruments into a single message: poetry, philosophy, pithy proverbs, parables, prophecy, and poignant historical narratives alike speak in a compelling manner. The pathos of the crucifixion account is an event worthy of being the pinnacle of world history, that Omnipotence would submit to death at the hands of his own creation! The resurrection of the founder and the message of salvation by faith apart from human works stand in stark contrast to every other religious system known. But to fully appreciate the weight of the evidence, one must dig deeper than this. There are several lines of reasoning that give testimony to the fact that the Bible is the Word of God. They can be generally grouped into five broad topics, each of which deserves a great deal more attention than is currently given here. For further information, Josh McDowell’s book Evidence That Demands a Verdict is a good resource.

First, let us consider the uniqueness of the book. The Bible is unique in preparation, circulation, translation, and preservation. The Bible was written over a period of 1,500 years by a great variety of men who were inspired of God. From the king of Babylon writing in Chaldean to the humble prophet of Samaria; from an educated doctor writing in Greek to the beautiful lyrics composed by a Hebrew shepherd in the field; from a statesman born in ancient Egypt to a fisherman of the Roman era; it is difficult to conceive of a more diverse group! Writing any volume of such length and being in complete harmony would indeed be a wonder, much less dealing with a topic so controversial as religion. No book in the history of the world has been as widely circulated as the scripture. Every year it outsells all of the top best-sellers and it has now been translated into over 1,200 different languages. Despite the hammers of higher criticism and the black-listing of dictators, the anvil of God’s Word survives after the hammers wear out. Discoveries of hundreds of copies of the ancient texts from a millennium before Christ reveal the remarkable preservation of the message throughout time. The Bible is also unique in message and influence. The Bible unequivocally claims to be the word of God (II Timothy 3:16, II Peter 1:16-21). Either it satisfies that claim or it is not a "good book." From beginning to end the Bible carries a message of the Messiah, God in the flesh. C.S. Lewis effectively countered the myth of Jesus Christ being merely a "good man." Christ claimed to be God. So either He was divine, or he was a deceitful impostor, or he was pathetically self-deluded. This has been called the Lord/Liar/Lunatic trilemma. Great men the world over have sought to plummet the message of the scriptures. From common people with no formal education to the brightest minds in the scientific world, most have found intellectual challenge and many have come to know spiritual fulfillment in the message of this unique book.

Secondly, archaeology has independently confirmed the historical accuracy of the scriptures. Not only have many of the locations and traditions that are mentioned in the Bible been confirmed by field workers in the Middle East and researchers that study ancient histories, but specific events cited have often been shown to match in great detail. Associates for Biblical Research has extensively excavated Jericho. Just one of the interesting features about this city is that the walls appear to have fallen outward. While an invading army would typically ram the walls inward upon the debris, the Bible declares that God caused the walls to fall flat so that the Israelites could go straight in. Skeptics once believed that the book of Daniel was in error when it discussed Belshazzar ruling Babylon. The dynasties were revealed on cuneiform tablets excavated from ancient Babylon and Belshazzar did not appear on the list. Yet Unger’s Bible Dictionary tells how a later find revealed that the sovereign, Nabonidus, traveled extensively and in his absence left his son Belshazzar to rule as co-regent. That is why, in seeking to offer the ultimate reward to anyone who could interpret the mysterious message of doom, Belshazzar offered the position of "third in the kingdom" (Daniel 5:7). He could do no more since he was only second himself. Sir William Ramsey is regarded as one of the greatest archaeologists ever to have lived. Skeptical of the authorship and accuracy of the gospels and Acts, Ramsey set out to investigate. Yet he concluded after 30 years of study that "Luke is a historian of the first rank; not merely are his statements of fact trustworthy...this author should be placed along with the very greatest of historians." (Ramsey, W.M., The Bearing of Recent Discovery on the Trustworthiness of the New Testament, 1953, p. 222, as cited in McDowell,1991, p.71.)

Thirdly there is the evidence of fulfilled prophecy. It is interesting to glance at a concordance and note how many times the scriptures say, "It is written" and harking back to one of the many prophecies. Making predictions in the Old Testament era was no light matter. The test for a prophet was 100% accuracy (Deuteronomy 18:20-22). The penalty for failing the test was death. Yet, in marked contrast to any other religious writings, about 30% of the Bible is prophecy! Let’s just consider two of the many types of prophecies contained in the Bible: those regarding the Messiah and those that apply to Ancient Cities. McDowell presents 61 specific prophecies that were clearly fulfilled in Christ. These include: His birthplace, the flight to Egypt, His ancestry, the slaughter of the innocents, His being preceded by a messenger, the ministry starting in Galilee, His teaching with parables, His entry into Jerusalem on a colt, His betrayal by a friend, the 30 pieces of silver, His death upon a tree, the garments parted and lots cast, the gall and vinegar offered, His side pierced but no bones broken, the darkness over the land, and His burial with the rich, and his resurrection. Even if an impostor sought to pawn himself off as meeting some of these, there are a great many (like the events of one’s birth) beyond his control. In his book Science Speaks, Peter Stoner has calculated the odds of just eight of the most remarkable prophecies coming true in the life of any man in human history as a mind-boggling 1 in 10 17. These are not common predictions that have decent odds of happening. No other religion in the world even makes a pretense that its founder is still alive, yet the prophets predicted the resurrection (Psalm 16:10). Remarkably, the exact timing of the Messiah’s arrival was given in Daniel 9:24-26. Many of the Old Testament prophecies (like Malachi 3:1) demand that the temple be standing when the Messiah came. It was destroyed in A.D. 70 in fulfillment of Christ’s prophecy (Matthew 24:2). Indeed, there was a narrow historical window in which the Messiah could come. For it was determined in Genesis 49:10 that he would be born before Israel lost the governmental scepter (the rabbis lost the right of capital punishment so important to their law in AD 7). That is why they had to appeal to Pilate in John 18:31. But Messiah had to be condemned after the Jews lost that right because it was predicted that he was to die by crucifixion (Psalm 22:16), rather that the Jewish method of stoning.

Biblical prophecies with regard to ancient cities is equally remarkable. Skeptics have suggested that a message of impending doom spoken against an ancient city must come true eventually. Yet the dire predictions in the Bible are very specific such that the details of one city’s prophecies do not fit the next one. The detailed prophecies involving ancient cities include Babylon, Chorazin-Bethsaida-Capernaum, Gaza-Ashkelon, Jerusalem, Moab-Ammon, Nineveh, Petra-Edom, Samaria, Sidon, Thebes-Memphis, Tyre, and others (McDowell, 1991). Contemplate just a few of them:

1. Among the several specific predictions with regard to ancient Edom are those in Ezekiel 25:13-14. It claims that Edom’s destruction would leave the land desolate as far as Teman and that Israel would participate in their destruction. In Ezekiel 35:7 the prophet further notes Edom would no longer be a place of merchants and trade. Isaiah 34:14-15 claims it would be the habitation of wild animals. Lastly Jeremiah 49:18 predicts that it would never be inhabited again. This is a daunting series of prophecies, particularly when one considers that Petra, the capital of Edom, was one of the wonders of the ancient world--literally a city carved into a mountain and the Jews were in bondage when the prophecy was made! Yet under the Maccabean era the resurgent Israelites pillaged Edom. In dramatic fulfillment the Edomite empire was finally destroyed right up to the city of Teman. (Only Teman, or Maan was left and survives still today.) When the capital city of Petra was rediscovered (to the chagrin of critics who maintained that the Edomite civilization was mythical), it was found to be a ghost town, inhabited only by eagles, scorpions and other wild creatures.

2. By way of contrast, one can consider the prophecies against Moab and Ammon. Though in Ezekiel 25:3-4 the prophet had predicted the fall of these city-states, Jeremiah 48:47 (Moab) and 49:6 (Ammon) predicted that they would rise again. Indeed these cities are in existence and thriving today.

3. One is hard-pressed to find superlatives to sufficiently convey the splendor of ancient Babylon. The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia tells of a city covering 196 square miles, surrounded by double walls and a 30-ft. moat. The outer wall was over 300 feet high and wide enough to race 8 chariots abreast! Upon entering one of the one hundred solid brass gates, the visitor would be struck with the majesty of the hanging gardens, massive palaces, exquisite temples, and flowing Euphrates. The prophets foretelling its demise is akin to someone today forecasting the utter desolation of London or New York. But more than that, Isaiah 13:19-22 states that it will be overthrown, never to be inhabited again, except by desert animals. This has indeed come to pass. But interestingly, Jeremiah 51:26 declares that it would not be torn down to be used for construction elsewhere. While the Bedouins avoid the old city of Babylon, archaeological activity has been ongoing since many interesting ruins of the dead city remain.

4. The story of ancient Tyre is given in Unger’s Bible Dictionary: "an ancient Phoenician city, located on the shore of the Mediterranean Sea... It once consisted of two parts--a rocky coast defense of great strength on the mainland, and a city upon a small but well-protected island about half a mile from the shore." A merchant nation, the mariners of Tyre traveled the known world, making their home a successful trade port with a great, walled city on the mainland and a wealthy enclave on the island. In Ezekiel 26 the prophet details the destruction that will befall Tyre. Let us note the specificity: (1) vs 3 claims that multiple nations would be involved; (2) vs 4 tells that the walls and towers were to be broken down; (3) vs 4 states that the dirt was to be scraped off the area revealing the underlying rock and (4) All the debris of the city was to be dumped in the water; (5) vs 7-11 tell that Nebuchanezzar would break into the city; (6) vs 14 predicts that it would become a place of fishermen spreading their nets and (7) that the site would never be rebuilt. Nebuchanezzar attempted to subdue proud Tyre but because the inhabitants of this seacoast city all abandoned Tyre proper to escape to the large island fortress off the coast, he never looted its treasury or conquered its royalty. Nevertheless, Nebuchanezzar's siege and destruction of the seacoast city was praised and actually rewarded by God (Ezekiel 29:18-20). His destruction of the mainland portion of Tyre certainly fulfills verses 7-11 which apply to him. The dramatic fulfillment of the prophesied judgment was not completed in Nebuchanezzar since the inhabitants outlasted him on their Alcatraz-like island. When Alexander the Great came through to conquer Tyre, the citizens tried the same trick...evacuating for the island fortress. Alexander took a cue from the failure of Nebuchanezzar. He took ALL of the debris from the city of Tyre (literally scraping it bare), built a causeway out to the island, and proceeded to demolish it, selling the surviving inhabitants into slavery. Attempts were made to rebuild Tyre and it was again destroyed. The modern city called Tyre was NOT constructed on the ancient mainland site. In fact the ancient plot is largely barren rock (somewhere inland from the modern construction), and has quite literally been used by local fishermen to lay out their nets! "If Ezekiel had looked at Tyre in his day and had made these seven predictions in human wisdom, these estimates mean that there would have been only one chance in 75,000,000 of their all coming true. They all came true in the minutest detail." (Stoner, Peter, Science Speaks, 1963, p. 80.)

A most remarkable Old Testament prophecy has been fulfilled in the modern era. In keeping with the warning of Leviticus 26:33 and Deuteronomy 28:64 the children of Israel were scattered and tormented. From the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, to their banishment from Rome, to the pogroms of eastern Europe, to the holocaust; the Jewish people have suffered greatly. But Ezekiel 36:33-35 and 38:8 makes it very clear that the Jews were to return out of the other nations, rebuild their wasted cities, and recultivate their land (See also Jeremiah 16:14-15). It would seem highly unlikely that the Jews would remain distinct as a people, having no country and every motivation to intermarry and escape the stigma. Yet this Biblical prophecy has been completely fulfilled in recent history. From a population of only 20,000 identifiable Palestinian Jews in 1900, the modern reemergence of the Israeli nation has swelled that number to 6 million Jews. No other nation has been similarly reborn. Small wonder when the rationalist king Frederick the Great demanded of the court chaplain an unanswerable proof of the Bible’s authenticity, the answer was given: "the Jew, your majesty!" As a prophet Himself, Christ made numerous predictions. In Matthew 24:3 the disciples posed a question about the timing of the end of the world, Armageddon, and the new kingdom. Jesus predicted in vs 14: "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." He later would command them to go "into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature" (Mark 16:15). That was a command it would seem impossible for a motley group of followers of an itinerant preacher in the obscure nation to do. How could they go through all the world spreading His teachings and getting people to believe the incredible story of his death and resurrection? Yet they have done just that. Interestingly, even the advent of the modern skeptical era with a worldview based upon uniformitarianism was foretold in the scriptures (see II Peter 3:3-7). In Isaiah 41:23 the prophet lays out a challenge: "Show me the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that you are gods." The God of the Bible has dramatically met that challenge!

Fourthly, there is the fact that the Bible is scientifically accurate. One must always be cautious against using circular reasoning such that scientific theories are enlightened by the scripture and then those theories are used to show that the scriptures are reliable. But quite aside from the evidence for controversial theories like special creation, or the co-existence of men and dinosaurs; there are a number of rather startling statements in the Bible which appear to be far more advanced than the scientific knowledge at the time of writing. Moreover, there has never been an irreconcilable discrepancy between scientific facts or laws and the scriptures.

* Jeremiah 33:22 claims that the stars of the heaven are innumerable. Hippocrates, before the invention of the telescope charted and numbered 1,022 stars. Kepler later recounted and revised the number. Today scientists agree with Jeremiah. There are billions just in our galaxy!

* Judges 5:20 mentions "the stars in their courses." While it was once believed that the stars were fixed, today we know that they too move in a predictable way.

* Job 38:19 is accurate in the way it characterizes light. Note that darkness is in a place but light is in a way. It travels a path.

* Job 38:24 indicates the light of the sun (by heating) makes the wind.

* Job 36:27 asks how the rain drops stay small (discrete even in a strong wind)? One of the reasons is found in Psalm 135:5-7. Because of the electrical charges in the clouds, the rain drops repel each other as they fall. This is why electrical static during a rain or snow storm can interrupt transmissions.

* Ezekiel 5:5, 38:12 claims that Jerusalem is the center of the earth. ICR commissioned a computer analysis of the earth’s land-masses and discovered that the geographic center is in Palestine, near the holy city.

*Psalm 103:12 The Psalmist seeks to describe how far away God has removed the sins of those who have been forgiven. Interestingly, one can go west or east forever, unlike north and south.

* Hebrews 1:11-12 describes the wearing down of the creation in language that nicely mirrors the second law of thermodynamics and II Peter 3:12 describes the heavens one day passing away in a fire that causes the elements to melt in fervent heat (a pretty accurate description of nuclear meltdown).

* Ecclesiastes 1:4-7 describes the whirling motion of the winds and the movement of storm fronts long before the advent of modern meteorology.

* Job 37:16 also gives significant meteorological information, including the balancing of the vapors in the clouds. Job 36:27 adds that the quantity of the rain is proportional to the amount of vapor aloft.

* Job 26:7 The ancients Greeks believed that the world was held up by Atlas. Other civilizations held similar ideas. The Bible made an unusual claim: God did not hang the world on anything.

* Psalm 8:8 discusses the "paths of the seas." The story is told that whenthe man we call "the Father of Oceanography," Matthew Fontain Maury, readPsalm 8 the aforementioned phrase stuck in his mind. He later sought toconfirm the idea and eventually wrote The Physical Geography of the Sea in1855. It was the first textbook on modern oceanography. The state ofVirginia erected a memorial to him that cites this passage.

* Isaiah 40:12 Some have claimed that the Bible supports the "flat earth theory." But this passage declares that God sits upon the "circle of the earth."

* Job 38:13-14 conveys the idea of the earth rotating on its axis: "the earth...is turned as clay to the seal."

* In Luke 17:34-36 the worldwide event of Christ’s return is being discussed. The scientifically significant fact is that these verses allude to the different time zones around the globe long before the earth’s rotation was understood by scientists. Note that when Christ comes, some will be enjoying nighttime sleep while others are grinding in preparation for the day’s baking (typically morning) and others are working in the field (typically afternoon).

* One of the directors of Standard Oil Company read in Exodus 2:3 how Moses was placed in an ark "daubed with slime and pitch." He sent the company geologist Charles Whitshott to determine if there was still oil in that region. The discovery of oil led to Standard having very successful well operations in Egypt. (Tan, Paul L., Encyclopedia of 7700 Illustrations, p. 191.)

* The practice of medical bleeding as a treatment (often with leeches) was common until the middle of the 19th century. Historians believe that George Washinton's bleeding caused his death. (Thayer, William R., George Washington, 1922, p. 240) Ironically, by his bedside was a Bible that stated in Leviticus 17:11 "For the life of the flesh is in the blood."

* Linguists have determined that all the earth's peoples must have originally shared a common language. That is precisely what the Bible declares in Genesis 11:1.

* The concept of embodied in the laws of thermodynamics: the constant of the universe’s mass/energy and the universal tendency towards decay and disorder are clearly articulated in Ecclesiastes 3:14 and Romans 8:21-22.

* In Job 38:16 God challenges Job to find the "springs of the sea." These fresh water fountains emerging from the deep ocean floor have only been located in recent decades.

* Much of the Old Testament Levitical law is comprised of health-related restrictions involving diet, cleansing, and quarantine. The book "None of These Diseases" and Keller’s work demonstrate the healthfulness of following that advice. Human medicine did not realize this until thousands of years after it was written!

Other verses could be cited. Just recently articles have been published claiming that the human rib is the only bone that has been shown to grow back. Is it merely a coincidence that this is the bone God took from Adam? A strong case has even been made that it is no accident that science has flourished to unprecedented levels in an era of Christian philosophy. Great classical scientists sought to seek God’s thoughts after Him. The Biblical view gives reason to expect orderliness, laws, and repeatability that are the foundation for the scientific method.

The fifth area of evidence is the demonstration of changed lives. That is, there is power in the Christian experience, power in the Christian story, and power in the Christian’s departure. If the Bible only impacted a relative few in a single culture, one might be skeptical of its claims. But the message of salvation and reconciliation to the Creator has dramatically changed women and men of all ages and races throughout history. The message of the scripture is the highest of drama: the eternal omnipotent God pursuing the wayward creation to the extent of a humble birth and cruel, ignominious death. It is at once exquisitely mind-boggling and yet so simple that a child can understand and be affected by it. Millions of people from around the world can personalize the testimony of John Newton, the profane slave-trader turned Christian: "Amazing grace, how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me! I once was lost, but now am found--was blind, but now I see!" A number of books have compiled death bead accounts, giving the stories of both saved and unsaved people passing from this earth as told in the words of eye-witnesses. One such book is Voices from the Edge of Eternity by John Meyers. The impact grows as one perceives the remarkable similarity in so many of the accounts. Christians see great brightness, give lucid accounts of observing loved ones and leave their bodies with great hope and comfort. But heart-rending accounts of the passing of many unsaved souls are also given. It recounts the details of the great French skeptic Voltaire’s passing from this life in the most awful of circumstance, crying out in darkness, hopelessness and despair. Even his nurse repeatedly said that for all the wealth of Europe, she would not see another infidel die! Hebrews 10:31 states, "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."

If the Bible gives evidence of being the word of God and it is reliable when it speaks historically, prophetically, etc.; than it is also likely to be trustworthy when it speaks theologically and gives the simple plan of salvation as follows...

You are a sinner. (Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.")

The penalty for sin is eternal death, separation from God. (Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.")

Christ died as a substitute, paying your penalty (Romans 5:8 "But God showed His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.")

If you repent and call upon Jesus to save you, He promises you eternal life as a free gift. (Romans 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.")

The Bible is very clear in making an exclusive claim on the path to God. "He that believes on the Son has everlasting life; but he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abides on him". (John 3:36) "Jesus said unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes unto the Father, but by me" (John 14:6).

AngryFemme
2007-04-02, 04:05
You forgot to post the source of where it was you pirated that piece from.

Not for "proof", mind you ... just proper etiquette when you borrow other people's material.

P.S. Thanks for not cursing, or using multiple exclamation points of your own at the end.

Masta Thief
2007-04-02, 04:31
quote:Originally posted by AngryFemme:

You forgot to post the source of where it was you pirated that piece from.

Not for "proof", mind you ... just proper etiquette when you borrow other people's material.

P.S. Thanks for not cursing, or using multiple exclamation points of your own at the end.

oops my bad here it is www.genesispark.com (http://www.genesispark.com)

AngryFemme
2007-04-02, 04:47
Isn't that website involved in some kind of creationist conspiracy theory?

You've pulled my leg, now I pull yours.

Masta Thief
2007-04-02, 04:50
quote:Originally posted by AngryFemme:

Isn't that website involved in some kind of creationist conspiracy theory?

You've pulled my leg, now I pull yours.

huh?

RAOVQ
2007-04-02, 04:53
why the fuck are you still here?

AngryFemme
2007-04-02, 04:58
quote:Originally posted by Masta Thief:

huh?

Don't play dumb. Anytime anyone else cited a scientific website to support their arguments concerning archeology, paleontology or geographic sources - you called foul by labeling everything "an atheist conspiracy".

I was just putting the shoe on the other foot, to give you a glimpse of how narrow-minded and ridiculous the "conspiracy" claim sounds.

MolecularMollusc
2007-04-02, 06:12
Honestly, it's alright to link a site. But post something you've, I dunno, actually written. (aside from the thread title)

Clarphimous
2007-04-02, 10:19
All this "proving/disproving the Bible" shit is getting stale. Why not talk about some of the stories in the Bible or some other holy writings without bashing anyone's beliefs?

I guess it's because people are more interested in fulfilling their ego than satisfying their curiousity.

boozehound420
2007-04-02, 13:16
since you copy and pasted, spending no time whatsoever, probably not even reading it. I'll spend the same amount of effort and not read it myself.

RAOVQ
2007-04-02, 13:58
thats what seems to be happening. people just post whatever random thought comes into thier head, without even considering the topic.

among_the_living
2007-04-02, 16:58
So......places that are written about in the bible actually exist?! wow.....did you know that London in Harry Potter also exists! that doesnt make voldemort real though does it http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Hare_Geist
2007-04-02, 17:10
OMG, because Plato used real people and real places, all of his dialogues must have taken place in reality too!

Pinball Mgruff
2007-04-02, 18:36
quote:Originally posted by Masta Thief:

There is much that even a superficial examiner will discover about the

I got this far into your post before I stopped reading.

Masta Thief
2007-04-02, 19:05
quote:Originally posted by AngryFemme:

Don't play dumb. Anytime anyone else cited a scientific website to support their arguments concerning archeology, paleontology or geographic sources - you called foul by labeling everything "an atheist conspiracy".

I was just putting the shoe on the other foot, to give you a glimpse of how narrow-minded and ridiculous the "conspiracy" claim sounds.



Narrow-minded? i listen to all sides of the arguement, i just come up with a different answer than you want me to! You guys are the narrow-minded you dont even bother to listen to religion you just brush it off saying its illogical! When in reality no its not I have heard actual arguements that show how athiesm is illogical, and not using logical fallacies or by using the bible but by science!

When i call your sites conspiracys its because the sites never have credibility, the stuff they say is no different than Quentin Tarrentino's(however its spelled) beliefs that not only is Alexander gay but so is Jesus, and George Washington! They all make shit up! But apparently you guys never learned about knowing someones credibility in school!

Dont even flame when you dont even read what it says! and for those people that flamed about that Plato shit apparently you didnt read the whole thing! You people are fucking retarded!

Pinball Mgruff
2007-04-02, 19:09
quote:Originally posted by Masta Thief:

You people are fucking retarded!

If this is the face of Christianity, then I would rather burn in hell.

(By the way, I know you're a troll but I just like wasting your time. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif) )

AngryFemme
2007-04-02, 19:38
quote:Originally posted by Masta Thief:

Narrow-minded? i listen to all sides of the arguement, i just come up with a different answer than you want me to!

That is sort of stretching the truth there, isn't it Masta Thief? If your idea of considering someone else's argument is "you're a fucking retard" or "you're going to burn in hell, atheist scum" ... then you have a long, long way to go yet before anyone will take you seriously when you claim to "listen to all sides".

quote:

You guys are the narrow-minded you dont even bother to listen to religion you just brush it off saying its illogical!

You fail to take into account that most skeptics on this board have done more than just listen to your arguments for Christianity. Do you think that we know nothing at all of Christianity except for what you spout in here about it?

Take into consideration that most atheists have already lived full lives as Christians, have been there/done that/bought the T-shirt on the Bible study, and have the experience of having faith ... whereas you cannot say the same. Ever practice being a skeptic for a day, where you genuinely question everything that you are spoon-fed from the creationist websites your frequent? You should try it, though I know you won't. You're too narrow-minded.

quote: When in reality no its not I have heard actual arguements that show how athiesm is illogical, and not using logical fallacies or by using the bible but by science!

Again, you have made your decision that the atheistic viewpoint is false loooong before you consider the arguments you hear. You've programmed yourself like that. You've become so hostile towards dissenting views towards your God that sometimes you forget to act like a Christian! How do you rationalize that with yourself at the end of the day? You're losing your Christianity IN SPITE OF the fight you are waging for it. Jesus wept.

quote: When i call your sites conspiracys its because the sites never have credibility....They all make shit up! But apparently you guys never learned about knowing someones credibility in school!

Define "credible", Masta Thief. Is your Bible scripture credible? It's not to us. Is your creationist websites credible? Not to us. Yet we still take the erroneous information you spew from it, and humor you long enough to make our arguments against it. Have you ever extended that kind of courtesy to us? No. You immediately dismiss any argument that does not jive with what you've already set in concrete in your head. Why even bother debating on here?

quote: You people are fucking retarded!

^ Sentences like that are what we have come to expect from you, and not much more.



[This message has been edited by AngryFemme (edited 04-02-2007).]

among_the_living
2007-04-02, 23:05
So, all bible pro people and sites are real but all against are in a conspiracy and not credible? hmm...so really we cant win can we? how do you KNOW ours arent credible if all you believe and all you WANT to believe is some devine creator did everything like a fucking moron.

chumpion
2007-04-03, 01:24
I wonder how many Christians have ever stopped to think that mabey, just mabey, the bible may be wrong? It could have been edited by the church time and time again to suit their needs. It could have been made up all together. Or added to over the 1500 years to suit the churches needs?

Until wankers like Master_Theif consider that, i won't take them seriously at all.

I mean we have this almighty organisation that publishes this book, and it is supposed to be the be all and end all guide to their faith. They preach from it, they live by it, they die by it.

What if it is simply a tool to get them more money and followers? I mean, it's not like the church has ever done anything even slightly morally corrupt, is it?

lol - I really don't like religious sheep much...

Masta Thief
2007-04-03, 02:19
quote:Originally posted by chumpion:

I wonder how many Christians have ever stopped to think that mabey, just mabey, the bible may be wrong? It could have been edited by the church time and time again to suit their needs. It could have been made up all together. Or added to over the 1500 years to suit the churches needs?

Until wankers like Master_Theif consider that, i won't take them seriously at all.

I mean we have this almighty organisation that publishes this book, and it is supposed to be the be all and end all guide to their faith. They preach from it, they live by it, they die by it.

What if it is simply a tool to get them more money and followers? I mean, it's not like the church has ever done anything even slightly morally corrupt, is it?

lol - I really don't like religious sheep much...



WOW! you people are fucking morons! If you have ever read any of my posts i question religion all the time but i stick with it because athiesm doesnt seem logical and I most def. dont want to be w/o a purpose!

I call your sites conspiracys because i have heard them before and thier counter arguements! Do you want me to believe everything i hear? I take in the odds and probability(however the hell its spelled) of the arguement plus the mistakes in acount! The reason why i doubt it, is because its like the boy who cryed wolf, when someone has made outrageous claims in the past that have been proven wrong, then they say shit like Jesus was actually gay, pulling info out thier asses! Its the same conspiracy theorists that make up all this bullshit!

You gotta take into consideration, who this website is seemingly for? hmm well lets see?

politics= cummunist lovers, socialist proggresive thinkers, and liberal dems is what makes up most of it!

Religion= athiests and wierd people whose arguements come from way out of nowhere!

plus the whole damn site has the t-shirt hell thingy and the drug reform shit! Ya great website! OF course its going to be biased and of course its going to seem like you have the upper hand when im a christian conservative! but step into the real world and everyone laughs at the jokes you guys are, who thinks they are smarter then everyone else and works at McDonalds!

nothing coming from this website is credible! therfor why should i belive it!





[This message has been edited by Masta Thief (edited 04-03-2007).]

Pinball Mgruff
2007-04-03, 02:26
List of trolls that we should ignore at all costs- totse.com

http://www.totse.com/bbs/Forum15/HTML/006808.html

AngryFemme
2007-04-03, 02:29
First, I would like to know who in here said Jesus Christ was gay. What would the relevance be anyway, even if he was?

Totse is in on the conspiracy, eh Masta Thief? I suppose Jeff Hunter is the Anti-Christ and all the atheists on this forum are his evil minions doing all the laborious work while Jeff plots to take over the Universe via clickable sponsor ads!

http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

Masta Thief
2007-04-03, 02:31
quote:Originally posted by AngryFemme:

First, I would like to know who in here said Jesus Christ was gay. What would the relevance be anyway, even if he was?

Totse is in on the conspiracy, eh Masta Thief? I suppose Jeff Hunter is the Anti-Christ and all the atheists on this forum are his evil minions doing all the laborious work while Jeff plots to take over the Universe via clickable sponsor ads!

http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)



NOPE! just stating the bias, and who the site is for!

AngryFemme
2007-04-03, 03:03
Do shed light on how you came to stumble into the dark dungeons of a website that was created "for" atheists. Looking for something in particular? Free porn, perhaps?

Did you get thrown out of all the more staunch and upstanding religious forums on the internet because of your potty mouth and inability to control your outbursts of stupidity and intolerance?

Viraljimmy
2007-04-03, 20:33
Once again, if you disagree with MastaThief, you are a retarded homosexual communist, addicted to weed, and work at McDonald's. In your free time you plot with Al Qaeda and Hillary Clinton to destroy the true christian empire. And you're going to hell, moron!!!!

Surak
2007-04-03, 21:40
I hunt fuckwads like this for sport.

Masta Thief
2007-04-03, 22:05
quote:Originally posted by AngryFemme:

Do shed light on how you came to stumble into the dark dungeons of a website that was created "for" atheists. Looking for something in particular? Free porn, perhaps?

Did you get thrown out of all the more staunch and upstanding religious forums on the internet because of your potty mouth and inability to control your outbursts of stupidity and intolerance?

hmm? why i came here? it was more what led me here! i was looking for some info. when i acidentaly went to totse about 1 year ago! then i decided to stay, more for questions i had, i never really bothered about the debating till a couple months ago, and you cant deny i've been a hit! wether or not you like me, my topics get alot of feedback and my replys are always talked about! I mean come on admit it with out me what would this be? a bunch of athiests making fun of religion and blah blah blah! Im like the only one who brings the contreversy to the forum, everyone else agrees with eachother! Politics aswell it would be boring because they are all likeminded individuals with a small difference here and there!

Anyways lets not argue this lets get back on topic shall we?

[This message has been edited by Masta Thief (edited 04-03-2007).]

Masta Thief
2007-04-03, 22:09
quote:Originally posted by Surak:

I hunt fuckwads like this for sport.

aww man watch out for you!

hahahahhahahahah!

AngryFemme
2007-04-04, 01:48
quote:Originally posted by Masta Thief:

you cant deny i've been a hit! wether or not you like me, my topics get alot of feedback and my replys are always talked about! I mean come on admit it with out me what would this be?

This is like showbiz to you, isn't it? Never get pissy when someone calls you a troll again, as you've just admitted that you are in this for the attention and the shit-stirring.

Do you honestly believe you are the only bonafide religious person in this forum? You have clearly skipped over a LOT of posts in here from people who support their faith in God. Maybe you are just oblivious to their posts because they do it in a coherent, dignified, non-agressive manner?

I'll stop nitpicking now since you've seemed to make a concentrated effort at acting more civilized towards people lately. I only hope that is because you finally woke up, re-read your hateful posts, and realized that the people were laughing at you, and not with you.

Masta Thief
2007-04-04, 04:40
quote:Originally posted by AngryFemme:

This is like showbiz to you, isn't it? Never get pissy when someone calls you a troll again, as you've just admitted that you are in this for the attention and the shit-stirring.

Do you honestly believe you are the only bonafide religious person in this forum? You have clearly skipped over a LOT of posts in here from people who support their faith in God. Maybe you are just oblivious to their posts because they do it in a coherent, dignified, non-agressive manner?

I'll stop nitpicking now since you've seemed to make a concentrated effort at acting more civilized towards people lately. I only hope that is because you finally woke up, re-read your hateful posts, and realized that the people were laughing at you, and not with you.



i know theres other religous people here, but theres not that many! theres me and sammy i remember someother guy who was here a long time ago but i think he dont get on anymore and mustache_rider who left! We are the only people basicly that bring the arguement and are here alot.

ps. no im not a troll

AngryFemme
2007-04-04, 04:44
Yep, just like I said:

Maybe you are just oblivious to their posts because they do it in a coherent, dignified, non-agressive manner?

There are tons of other Christians that float through here, Masta Thief. You obviously just can't identify with them.

RAOVQ
2007-04-04, 04:56
of course you are a troll. you post things just to get attention. you don't post stuff based on what you think, you post things you know will get people pissed off.

hell, you admited that yourself a few posts up.

your the worst kind of troll too, you don't even get creative, you just copy and paste pages of the most outlandish shit you can find.

jackketch
2007-04-05, 23:49
i

ps. no im not a troll

No? Sure looks like it to me. But we'll see...

Punk_Rocker_22
2007-04-06, 00:23
No? Sure looks like it to me. But we'll see...

I Like You :)

Masta Thief
2007-04-06, 01:01
of course you are a troll. you post things just to get attention. you don't post stuff based on what you think, you post things you know will get people pissed off.

hell, you admited that yourself a few posts up.

your the worst kind of troll too, you don't even get creative, you just copy and paste pages of the most outlandish shit you can find.


WOW! hahahaha what an idiot! this is my first post ever that i havnt thought up myself so cry about you little bitch! hahahha nice way to embarress yourself there! ahhahahahahhahah i love when people say shit like thatm its funny like the time when someone said i always use links and get my shit from the internet, and just a couple posts on top of that i said that exact same thing to someone else!


STRIKE 1, STRIKE 2, STIKE 3 AND YOUR OOOUUUTTT OF HERE!!!!!!!!!!

jackketch
2007-04-06, 01:08
STRIKE 1, STRIKE 2, STIKE 3 AND YOUR OOOUUUTTT OF HERE!!!!!!!!!!

Well I'm not american and I neither play, watch or understand baseball.

So...

None of this 'strike 1' crap. You piss me off and you're gone.basta.