Think about René Descartes "I think, therefore I am" quote. Implying that you can never know anything truly exists other that yourself.

With this in mind how is it possible to prove anything other than yourself, never mind god. Anything presented in anyway could simply be your own powerful imagination at work.

With this in mind the only way you could ever truly know if god exists or not is to experience yourself as God and to realise that you ARE God.

This is what I challenge you to consider and I believe that when analysing yourself as a conscious being you can see how it could be possible. I believe your godly power is found in all the choices you make.

You are the one who is God. You are the one, who through your choices of what to believe, created and constantly recreates the universe (That is "Your" universe).

You are the one who decides what you want to happen in your universe, what to experience. Whether it's something your conscious mind thinks is good or bad, your subconscious knows that all experience is good and is happy to experience it all.

You choose whether or not someone is evil or good, and you enjoy what implications that choice makes in your universe. You are the one who chooses to love or to be afraid, and these choices enrich your experience of your own universe.

Through the power of your beliefs, you have taken this infinite mass of shifting energy and turned it into "your universe". You are the God of your world. Using your mind as a tool and the universe as your medium you can paint whatever picture you want, although you probably don't consciously know what you want since you think mainly from your consious mind and not from the subconscious mind which holds your model of life and your true desires of what to experience.

The strong beliefs you have about what is what in your universe are the foundations of your subconscious mind. The flittering thoughts of your conscious mind have little effect on your model of the universe, but repetition of various thought paths will gradually alter your core beliefs. This is how you change the world.. your world, by changing your thought patterns.

This relates to spiritual practitioners. People who meditate and develop a strong mental focus can delve deep into their minds and think from deeper level. They can think with their subconscious mind and alter their universe dramaticaly at an instant simply by making a choice as to what the universe is.

Jesus and Buddah were masters of there universe. They could choose "what was what" not by having flittering conscious descisions, but having the power to make deep effective subconscious decisions whenever they wanted. They experienced themselves as the ultimate creator. They experienced themselves as God.

this is a pretty well trodden path, much in common with satanism.

i believe it though. i don't like the abstract idea of 'the universe'. the universe is what i can perceive with my five senses. if i cannot sense it, it doesn't exist. that is not to say that Norway doesn't exist, the mere knowedge of it's existence counts.

but this makes me the most powerful being in my universe. there is nothing that can influence what i perceive more than i. everything that happens in my universe is my creation, and how i interpretate it is mine also. i guess that makes me god of the universe.

quote:Originally posted by RAOVQ:

but this makes me the most powerful being in my universe. there is nothing that can influence what i perceive more than i. everything that happens in my universe is my creation, and how i interpretate it is mine also. i guess that makes me god of the universe.

That's what I'm saying.

On a side note I had a few thoughts as to how this relates to hypnosis.

Hypnosis is when someone helps you (Through chanting or countings etc) to go deep into your mind and think from your subcnscious mind. At this point they make suggestions and you can choose whether or not to believe them. You can choose to believe that smoking is gross if you want. Then you come back to your conscious mind and your flittering thoughts have little effects on your new model of your universe that says smoking is gross.

quote:Originally posted by RAOVQ:

this is a pretty well trodden path, much in common with satanism.

i believe it though. i don't like the abstract idea of 'the universe'. the universe is what i can perceive with my five senses. if i cannot sense it, it doesn't exist. that is not to say that Norway doesn't exist, the mere knowedge of it's existence counts.

but this makes me the most powerful being in my universe. there is nothing that can influence what i perceive more than i. everything that happens in my universe is my creation, and how i interpretate it is mine also. i guess that makes me god of the universe.

You are still affected by universal laws. Something as simple as gravity influences you.

You depend on reality and the laws of nature to survive. Therefore, you are not all-powerful.

This kind of talk is nice and cute but try to accept the fact that there are forces (in the literal sense) your living body is subservient to. Your thinking otherwise and playing make belief doesn't change a single thing. It's all in your head.

no, i am still influenced by things i can never control, like gravity, but they are mearly the confines to which i exercise my control. gravity does not 'control' anyone, and any decision i make takes it into account.

it is basically the free will argument. how can we be truly free when we have to obey the laws of thermodynamics? i maintain that freedom with constraints is still freedom. others take a more intense approach.

quote:Originally posted by RAOVQ:

[B]this is a pretty well trodden path, much in common with satanism.



B]

^That makes NO sense whatsoever to me. Satanism is just Christianity turned upside-down and inside-out. How on earth does the recognition that the kingdom of God is within you (which is just another way of saying what OP said) relate to the belief i, or worship of, a mythical entity.

As long as we manifest on the physical plane, we are subject to physical laws. We are free to ignore them--for instance, flouting the law of gravity by jumping off a tall building. The broken bones and so on that ensue do not mean one is being punished for breaking the "law"--only proof that actions have consequences.

no, satansim is not just inverted christianity. satanism is all about knowing you are the god of your universe. primal urges and physical pleasure are king. there is no god, no devil, only yourself to please. throw in some useless ritualism and thats it.

jumping off a tall building is not breaking the law of gravity, it is obeying it down to a tea. these laws cannot be broken, so punishments do not exist. there is no magic scorecard, tallying wins and losses. what we experience now is totally of our own creation, and the fufillment of our desires is our own mission.

Surely a few more of you have thoughts on this.
I know this type of suggestion doesn't crop up everyday in this forum, but that's a reason to be interested if any.

Surely a few more of you have thoughts on this.
I know this type of suggestion doesn't crop up everyday in this forum, but that's a reason to be interested if any.

Seeing as you asked:) When Jesus was challenged and charged with blasphemy by the jews, he was in serious trouble! Blasphemy for the jews was an offence punishable by death, and that was a rather nasty immedaite death by stoning. He was in trouble they were picking up the rocks to kill him, his calm reply:“It is written in your own Scriptures that God said to certain leaders of the people, ‘I say, you are gods!’(Psalm 82:5-7)" - John 10: 33-35.

The law is clear Jesus was using as his defence the jews own holy book, the implication being that he(Jesus) was not claiming to be any different! Sure churchianity and the Nicolaitians have put words in his mouth making him claim to be something else, but they missed that bit.

So much for religion! IMHO god is something that cannot be defined and it's far more profitable to focus on reality. The way you are saying sounds a lot like solipsism and who wants to believe that! Alone ... or, a fractal of an infinite self reflected in all possible ways of existence?

i think it all comes down to the applied definition of god.

if people associate omnipotence and general super powers with god, then this idea does not stand up. however, if you take god to be the one with the most amount of power in a given system, then this logic is undeniable.

i think the lack of replies stem from the in-grained idea that to even consider another god rather than the christian one is unthinkable to many.

Seeing as you asked:) When The way you are saying sounds a lot like solipsism and who wants to believe that! Alone ... or, a fractal of an infinite self reflected in all possible ways of existence?

Not that I'm claiming to be er....... solipsistic (??)
But why is it unappealing to you?

If I am a God in my own right, why am I so bound by the laws I have created? Teach me to set myself free.

.

With this in mind the only way you could ever truly know if god exists or not is to experience yourself as God and to realise that you ARE God.


Non-Sequitur.

If I am a God in my own right, why am I so bound by the laws I have created? Teach me to set myself free.

Perhaps you chose to be, for the sake of experiencing what you previously chose to experience.

Teach me to set myself free.

There's plenty of info around for that kinda thing.

Not that I'm claiming to be er....... solipsistic (??)
But why is it unappealing to you?

Because it does not add up, for me! Neither does your assertion: "You choose whether or not someone is evil or good, and you enjoy what implications that choice makes in your universe."

Are you saying one chooses for Hitler or Stalin or Pol Pot to be evil?

There's plenty of info around for that kinda thing.
I haven't found any.

Winston Zeddemore: "Ray, when someone asks you if you're a *God*, you say 'YES'!"

Because it does not add up, for me! Neither does your assertion: "You choose whether or not someone is evil or good, and you enjoy what implications that choice makes in your universe."

Are you saying one chooses for Hitler or Stalin or Pol Pot to be evil?

I'm saying that the existence of what you consider to be "Evil", gives you the opportuny to experience what you consider to be "Good". Do you enjoy the feeling of being good?

Winston Zeddemore: "Ray, when someone asks you if you're a *God*, you say 'YES'!"

Winston was a ghostbusting guru. jk

"I think, therefore I am" ? Well, it's more accurate to say "I think, therefore I think I am". Imagination, being what it is. :P

I once meditated upon "the universe and eternity". I saw an expanse so vast and deep as I traveled. Suddenly, I realized that it was my own mind that I was traveling into, not anything outside of it.

What happens when two universe's collide? Does one not impact the other?

I don't think such "masters" could choose "what was what". But they used their wisdom of the purpose of opposites and how to work within that to create a more harmonious existence for their selves AND others. I think all such "masters" worked for the benefit of man, but always within what was created. They created nothing new.

"I think, therefore I am" ? Well, it's more accurate to say "I think, therefore I think I am". Imagination, being what it is. :P
You must be to think.

I actually agree in some respects. Since the universe from my singular point of view is only what I percieve then like RAOVQ said if something is not being percieved by my 5 senses or I have no knowledge of it, then it doesn't, from my point of view "exist." Does this make me "God," no, but in some respects in does make me a psuedo powerful figure in my own right. It's true that I inhabit a physical realm and that the laws of it apply to me like Ishrind said, however I could say, "the world revolves around me, because without me there would be no world." At least from my point of view when I die, the world ceases to exist.

This thread seems to be descending into a discussion of idealism, and I hope it continues in such a direction. I'm going to wait it out for awhile and see where it goes, but for now I'll just say I take, and think everyone should take, idealism in the epistemological sense very seriously and I personally am somewhat of a transcendental idealist/empirical realist.

Close but not quite.

You are still affected by universal laws. Something as simple as gravity influences you.

You depend on reality and the laws of nature to survive. Therefore, you are not all-powerful.

This kind of talk is nice and cute but try to accept the fact that there are forces (in the literal sense) your living body is subservient to. Your thinking otherwise and playing make belief doesn't change a single thing. It's all in your head.

Possibly. Then again, supposedly, Jesus walked on water, ascended bodily into heaven, cured blindness, raised the dead, materialized food, etc. . . Moses parted the Red Sea, made water into wine, changed a staff into a snake, etc. . .Funny, but I don't remember what things Buddha had done. Anyways, there are records of people living for years without food, floating, appearing in more than one place at the same time, healing others, answering unspoken prayers with action, and precisely predicting the future.

i think it all comes down to the applied definition of god.

if people associate omnipotence and general super powers with god, then this idea does not stand up. however, if you take god to be the one with the most amount of power in a given system, then this logic is undeniable.

i think the lack of replies stem from the in-grained idea that to even consider another god rather than the christian one is unthinkable to many.

My previous lack of reply stems from the in-grained idea that none of this can currently be scientifically proven. I'm only 26 but I've spent years discussing and researching topics such as this. What are the differences between religions, the commonalities, the practices, the beliefs, the affects of specific practices and beliefs? Most of that can be answered.

Things like who am I, what is god, which religion is right, what is consciousness, what happens after death, does a soul exist, is a soul the same thing as a self, does thought equal consciousness, does consciousness equal awareness? If a soul does exist what is it? These things cannot be answered accurately. Although, they can be pondered, played with, expanded upon. It's a good exercise but how useful is it? Will any of you answer that? In what way is it useful, all this arguing? Why do we not look for answers to questions that have useful answers, questions such as the ones listed in the paragraph above?

Forget about it. I'm feeling pessimistic today and I don't care to change the feeling right now.

Bump.

Beany was right.

My previous lack of reply stems from the in-grained idea that none of this can currently be scientifically proven. I'm only 26 but I've spent years discussing and researching topics such as this. What are the differences between religions, the commonalities, the practices, the beliefs, the affects of specific practices and beliefs? Most of that can be answered.


Perhaps it can't be proven, but you can find evidence by examining yourself and your patterns and how it may relate to god.
I've also researched and pondered on things such as this a lot. A view on what life and me is all about has gradually formulated in my mind. What I love i that my beliefs are pretty consistent with most religeons and what I see in everyday life. No peice of puzzle is too out of shape to fit the whole... but then again maybe I'm subconsciously choosing to perceives things in a way that compliments how I think things are.

Things like who am I, what is god, which religion is right, what is consciousness, what happens after death, does a soul exist, is a soul the same thing as a self, does thought equal consciousness, does consciousness equal awareness? If a soul does exist what is it? These things cannot be answered accurately. Although, they can be pondered, played with, expanded upon. It's a good exercise but how useful is it? Will any of you answer that? In what way is it useful, all this arguing? Why do we not look for answers to questions that have useful answers, questions such as the ones listed in the paragraph above?


Yes, we need a "my god..." revolution. Some interesting topics for a change.

Bump.

Beany was right.

Regarding what?

Yes, we need a "my god..." revolution. Some interesting topics for a change.

The threads are for the most part repetitive, aren't they?

Way to repetative, It gets old. I just get tired of repeating myself because someone created a new thread on that was covered a month ago.

Beany, I was trying to say you were right in what you said when you created this topic. It seemed to be dying because of my pessimistic reply and even though I've went over the whole "who is God" thing in other threads, I didn't want to see it fade on a note like that.

I am actually God. I have started a seperate thread about it. Come see me, and feel free to ask questions. (In the other thread)

A thought just occured to me.
I wonder whether or not a babys view of reality is more accurate than an adults since it's mind does not associate anything with meaning. It sees what it sees without it's perception being influenced by learned "Meaning" or "Labels".
Also when you're a baby you believe you are the center of the universe. I believe Piaget called it "Egocentrism".
Perhaps there are connections to the original post.