and you'll get 4 churches out.

The history of Christianity is the story of countless infights,splits and schisms.

Usually with each side declaring itself the only TRUE faith and all others to be in error ...and when possible condemning them to a fiery immolation by the secular arm.

(anyone looking for a suitable subject for their theological doctoral thesis might want to investigate the schisms of the Christadelphians, who have made it an art form.)

Anyway, from the whole rainbow palate of Christian churches, congregations, denominations and sects: WHICH ONE GETS UP YOUR NOSE THE MOST , and why? And which one do you admire?



Personally, I cant stand American Style 'dialling for Jesus' TV Evangelicals or Pentacostals (no dear it isn't the holy Spirit, its hysteria!).

But I do have a lot of time for Mormons, who of all the christian churches do seem to try and put their money where their mouth is , in their daily lives.

I saw this the other day

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW79eTqskpc

louis theroux is awesome

It's hard to paint with such a broad brush. You can't assume entire denominations are wrong (well, maybe TV evangelicals, because they really don't seem sincere), it's the people within those denominatons practicing their faith that are important, individually.

See, I'm not a huge fan of some of the ideas the Catholic Church has, but being a Catholic myself, and seeing the views I was raised with, and ones I myself believe, I see that the denominations do not determine what individual people believe. I guess, I can call myself Catholic because I use so many of their ideas, but that's not quite accurate. I'm closer to technically, "folk-Christian". And I think, to just about every religious (Christian) person, it's the same scenario. Just about no one is rigid to their Church's doctrines. I guess, in the end, I really do agree with you, because even though I don't like a lot of their ideas, the Mormons do seem to follow their denomination's doctrines. I'm not sure I respect them for that, though.

I think its funny how may people arn't actully the religion that they claim they are. Most people belive drinking the wine is symbol for Jesus' blood and those bread things are a symbol for eating his flesh. Well if thats what you belive then your not Catholic. Part of being Catholic is to actully belive that you are litterally drink blood and litterally eating flesh. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Post some examples of common misconceptions in Christianity, where people don't actully belive the religion their part of. I mean, you can't belive in evolution and christianity at the same time.

"Post some examples of common misconceptions in Christianity, where people don't actully belive the religion their part of. I mean, you can't belive in evolution and christianity at the same time."

Are you retarded? The whole basis of Christianity is that ANYONE is welcome to salvation. You just have to accept your level of imperfection and know you're still loved no matter your flaws. Even if evolution were incorrect, you could still believe it alongside the faith in a living god.

Anyway, from the whole rainbow palate of Christian churches, congregations, denominations and sects: WHICH ONE GETS UP YOUR NOSE THE MOST , and why? And which one do you admire?


I'm going to give a VERY conflicting answer:

Mine is definitely the Pentacostal sect, except I'm trapped in this strange situation of both admiring and being annoyed by their particular actions in regards to their beliefs.

I find their gutsy tenacity kind of admirable, in a Johnny Knoxville stunt-like way. These people drink poison and handle rattlesnakes, so certain are they that God himself will shield them from danger. They get points from me for showmanship alone, just due to the fact that their rituals take on such an Evil Knievel "death defying" bent to it.

I also find them to be among the most annoying, as they have more cult-like tendencies towards their relationship with "outsiders", and seem to GLADLY believe that the rest of the humanity is going to burn in a fiery furnace. I kind of feel like Pentacosals look forward to the apocalypse in the same way a devious little child would look forward to destroying an anthill with one kick of the foot.

Bible-belt Fundamentalism is definitely my least-favorite. Evil at worst, ignorant at best.

Catholicism I quite like. Not sure what the difference between Eastern Orthodox and the Western church is, but as I'm most familiar with the Western half I'll say that's my favorite. A rich history, even richer palette of rituals, music, prayers, and other devices of worship, and steadily growing more and more tolerant/enlightened.

Mormons are not Christians, they aren't even close. The reason there are so many denominations is because with some passages, there is room for interpretation, but I don't think any claim to be the "true" faith.

The main thing is still the main thing in most Christian dominations. Jesus is still at the head of our tables. The difference is in the details. Communion? When? What's it mean? How often? Baptism? When? What's it mean? When in life should it be done? Services? When? What should be involved? Saints? Yes or no?

Mormons are not Christians, they aren't even close. The reason there are so many denominations is because with some passages, there is room for interpretation, but I don't think any claim to be the "true" faith.

I rest my case. You say you don't think any claim to be the true faith...having just told us that mormons aren't...

Way to go, boy.

WHICH ONE GETS UP YOUR NOSE THE MOST , and why?

Any Christian who tries to convert me to his or her branch. I'm already Christian, you god damn foolish Christian!!! I hate other Christians who say, "You ought to come to our church." I look at them thinking, "I'm Christian, idiot. Go talk to an atheist or agnostic."

And which one do you admire?

Neither. I'm neutral about it.

Any Christian who tries to convert me to his or her branch. I'm already Christian, you god damn foolish Christian!!! I hate other Christians who say, "You ought to come to our church." I look at the thinking, "I'm Christian, idiot. Go talk to an atheist or agnostic."


I agree, it isn't right for them to try to convert you to their sect. Christians need to focus more on introducing the non-believers into the faith, than judging the ones who have already accepted Christ.

Mormon's are not christian's.

Mormonism is a cult.

And it should be treated as such.

There's been a lot of this bullshit lately. I was talking to a guy who was trying to convert me, and I asked him why he converted from Catholicism to another branch. He said he didn't like the moral judgements Catholicism puts on people. For instance, he said "thinking about adultry is a sin."

I looked at him and rolled my eyes. Afterwards, I walked away.

Mormonism is a cult.
.

And this differentiates them from 'Christianity', how exactly?

It was founded in America. Finding a text somewhere in a world is more of an Eastern religion type of thing. I don't buy into the Mormon bullshit. However, if the guy actually, actually found a book, it may have been Padmasambhava's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padmasambhava).

W00t for VB!

Anyway, from the whole rainbow palate of Christian churches, congregations, denominations and sects: WHICH ONE GETS UP YOUR NOSE THE MOST , and why? And which one do you admire?

Roman Catholic! Because it is the mother of all the other cults calling themselves christians when it seems they answer more to the description of the Nicolaitans(Revelations 2:6). Soon as they put down a creed, that's trouble, then comes the church hierarchy ... come on, how many 'xian' churches do you actually see selling all their goods and doing like the early church described in the bible?

On the plus side, John Spong, former Bishop of the Episcopalian church, is an outstanding example of what christianity could be.

Roman Catholic! Because it is the mother of all the other cults calling themselves christians when it seems they answer more to the description of the Nicolaitans(Revelations 2:6). Soon as they put down a creed, that's trouble, then comes the church hierarchy ... come on, how many 'xian' churches do you actually see selling all their goods and doing like the early church described in the bible?

On the plus side, John Spong, former Bishop of the Episcopalian church, is an outstanding example of what christianity could be.

Not sure about your comment about the creed. The first creed is found in Acts already (or rather scholars are fairly sure it is a form of very very early christian creed, so long before the 'roman rot' set in.).

Not sure about your comment about the creed. The first creed is found in Acts already (or rather scholars are fairly sure it is a form of very very early christian creed, so long before the 'roman rot' set in.).

That would be the Nicolaitans then.

That would be the Nicolaitans then.

Uhm no, unless i'm missing something.

Where do you see anything Nicolaitian in this Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

23Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

24Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. ??

Ebionite, yes maybe...

Impressive Jack... You were right in saying you had some knowledge.

I have to agree about Christadelphians and for the record I'm a Christadelphian myself so I know. Though I have always accepted other religions which has caused a bit of controversy in some groups of us.
Over in Australia they are becoming a fair bit better (though there are still the radical groups) but here we are becoming more accepting and some of the groups have even let Catholics into their ranks and have allowed women to exhort. I myself have divided some of their conferences by arguing against the discriminative doctrine and strangely enough the best argument to win people over is Matthew chapter 7.
I have gotten congratulated by quite a few and condemed by just as many for speaking out. But we are slowing winning our way and it is only a matter of a couple of decades (when all the old ones who will never change their ways die) before there will be a lot of changes to the Australian groups to stop condemning other religions and start trying to get more people aware of the Bible and what it should mean in our lives.

And grats on mod here jack.

Impressive Jack... You were right in saying you had some knowledge.

.

I used to have well thumbed copies of Elpis and Christendom Astray.

I made a point of studying with as many of the 'sects' as i could.



Or did you mean regarding the origins of christianity? In case which yes I do know the basics although things have moved on since the time I was actively studying it.

Uhm no, unless i'm missing something.

Where do you see anything Nicolaitian in this ??

Ebionite, yes maybe...

That's why I put the Romans at the head, you are quoting from their book! They are the one's who established the creed, they decided on what was going in the book. Any creed you identify there comes from the teachings chosen and edited by the Roman church.

I have some knowledge of chirstadelphian teachings as well with a well worn copy of Wrested Scriptures on the shelf. Pity they don't practise what they preach! But is that not the way of any organised religion? To have one, first you need a creed. Then the organisation needs officers, and priests, and deacons etc., then come the doctrines and dogmas and before you know it, it's set in the concrete, written on stone, the only true church blah blah blah, "the deeds of the Nicolaitans".

Nothing really bugs me, but I found a southern baptist preacher to be the most ignorant out of all, at least recently.

Nothing really bugs me, but I found a southern baptist preacher to be the most ignorant out of all, at least recently.

Try german baptist preachers sometime. At least your southern baptist preachers tend to have some 'fire'. German ones are just soooo 'wet'.

I personally prefer the more ornamental Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches for three reasons...
1. Cool Stuff (lots of pictures, relics, ect...)
2. Cool Chanting (who wants to hear rednecks sing in English about being SAVED?)
3. Wine

I dislike most others, though i have no problems with their beliefs (they are all wrong lol)

The sub-title to The Book of Mormon is Another Testament of Jesus Christ therefore I would argue that the generic sort of term christian does not really apply to Mormons and I assure you that in the US they are not considered a Christian denomination. For a good look at Mormonism I highly recommend the book Under the Banner of Heaven by Jon Krakauer.

As to the original question, the Southern Baptists tend to get under my skin fairly consistently because they are so dogmatic and refuse to even egage in rational dicussion, let alone debate, on any question of doctrine. I'm sure this trait isn't exclusive to this group but they are the group I have observed it in most often.

As for admiring any of them, I'd be hard pressed to say. I had a good friend who was African Methodist that I found to be pretty consistent in applying Christian morals but I have no idea if he was representative of that faith or not.

The only reason I differentiate between Mormons and Christians is this:

Christian sects vary based upon interpretations of one text; they have ideological differences.

Mormonism is based upon a newly introduced text; it is a difference of belief, as exists between Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.

They are 4 religions all exalting the same being: I Am.

Then, there are the Jehovah's Witnesses. I'll admit I don't know too much about the group...though from what I do know, I'd place them into a fifth following of I Am due to a belief structure that varies wildly from Bible-based Christianity, to Mormonism, to Judaism, and to Islam.

Then there's Hindi...which has a primary tenet that all faiths are Hindi - exaltations of the one and only divine being (In other words, I Am).

Then Taoism, which has the primary tenet of the unnamed master called the Tao - which has the same paradox of existing from nothing as I Am (and also being that which bestows all existence), and the exact same teachings in the moral realm (such as spiritual warfare through tempering the temptations of the world). Another religion that bases its exaltations in the one and only truth, I Am (otherwise known as Tao).

Then Buddhism, which while naming no divine being, stresses the freedom from torment by overcoming temptation (which just so happens to be the antagonist in all the other religions). If free from desire, one becomes enlightened, and has the realization of 'Om'...a concept that parallels 'I Am' to perfection...one is all and all is one.

In essence, all major religions exalt the same ideal: equality on a spiritual level through a higher 'it'; While they don't all share the same name of their higher power, nor do they present the faith aspect of the individual religions in the same manner, they all present an all-containing higher power that is the protagonist, being antagonized by temptations of hubris and pity and the subsequent pitfalls those two delusions bring about.

Even major philosophies about the world all parallel this, but I'll choose atheism as a philosophical condition just to bugger some kidiot's asshole:

Atheism - Using critical thinking skills, one can come to two conclusions about existence: It came from nothing, or it has always been. Further from there, we understand that the most minute action in one corner of the universe will eventually impact every last particle in existence. The very logic used to justify atheism justifies the primary tenet of nearly all faiths: All is one and one is all, however the hell it came about, or if it even DID come about.

So yes...put 5 people that all recognize the truth that all existence is connected as one, and you'll get at least 5 different interpretations of that one truth: such is the nature of subjective perception.

Neat idea, Hexadecimal. I'd like to read more. But I maintain that my consciousness is essentially separate from the rest of the universe*; I am alone inside my head*. :)

*Except for Lydia. :D

It's certainly not attached in the same way your heart and brain are...more as your skin is attached to your brain. Think butterfly effect...flapping wings causing hurricanes, shit like that. Sure, a bit dramatized, but essentially true. Your consciousness operates independently, but came to be by the universe, is influenced by the universe, influences the universe, and will end by the universe.

You're another pixel on the universe's infinite liquid crystal display. How long before you go dead? Don't waste your time on the small shit like arguing who has the best interpretation of universal unity...I'm guessing Lydia's a very important woman to you? That's good...love and Love are some big things to spend your time on...some real substance. So is bettering yourself for the benefit of all.

I try not to talk about my personal interpretation of the universe...it creates bickering and distracts from the message I'm trying to get out to totse.
"Quit stressing the shit everyone tells you is important and find what keeps Japanese students that didn't make the cut from going Seppuku on their own ass: hope, love, and trust."

That's my own quote by the way...feel free to use it. You can accredit it to either Adam Hansen or Aron Leccel...they're the same person, so neither one would mind. :P

I lost my Love a few days ago...hurts like hell, but it was worth it.

God, I feel like I might be more of a trip than moonmeister...that's a weird bit of self-revelation, hah.

Peace

The sub-title to The Book of Mormon is Another Testament of Jesus Christ therefore I would argue that the generic sort of term christian does not really apply to Mormons and I assure you that in the US they are not considered a Christian denomination. For a good look at Mormonism I highly recommend the book Under the Banner of Heaven by Jon Krakauer.

As to the original question, the Southern Baptists tend to get under my skin fairly consistently because they are so dogmatic and refuse to even egage in rational dicussion, let alone debate, on any question of doctrine. I'm sure this trait isn't exclusive to this group but they are the group I have observed it in most often.

As for admiring any of them, I'd be hard pressed to say. I had a good friend who was African Methodist that I found to be pretty consistent in applying Christian morals but I have no idea if he was representative of that faith or not.

Excellent, you've read Under The Banner of Heaven, I have as well, and you should know that it clearly states that Mormons believe in 4 holy texts, 1) The Bible, 2) The Book of Mormon 3) Doctorine & Covenant, and 4) The Pearl of Great Price, placed in decreasing order of importance, but by insignificant amounts between 3-4, there is debate whether The Bible is more valuable than The Book of Mormon, but both are read equally in Mormon seminaries (which are blatantly part of the public school system). Mormons are Christians in that they believe Jesus Christ is the one true savior. [Please note that I know this not because I'm Mormon myself, but because I live in Utah and this is basic knowledge] Don't believe me? Let's ask Wikipedia...
Latter Day Saints (LDS) consider themselves Christian, but are distinct from other Christians in numerous ways considered controversial by many other Christian denominations...In accordance with their traditional creeds, Mormonism is a corrupted form of Christianity, or Christian in only a nominal or cultural sense.

So there it is, Mormons are corrupted Christians...

Personally I prefer the Eastern Orthodox Churches because 3 Christian hubs (Antioch, Jerusalem, and Alexandria) outnumber 1 (Rome). I was an Antiochian Orthodox before I saw the light (or rather the darkness) and became an atheist. I thank fortune that my Priest wasn't an ignorant fundamentalist asshole and really sponsored a personal relationship with God. Mormons are cool too in that they are really moral and put the word out about their church, but they're also ultraconservatice dogmatic pussies. Personally, any liberal Xian who can listen is cool w/ me.

. Mormons are Christians in that they believe Jesus Christ is the one true savior..

QTF and which also happens to be the biblical definition of a christian too (its in one of the Johns if you want to check).

It's certainly not attached in the same way your heart and brain are...more as your skin is attached to your brain. Think butterfly effect...flapping wings causing hurricanes, shit like that. Sure, a bit dramatized, but essentially true. Your consciousness operates independently, but came to be by the universe, is influenced by the universe, influences the universe, and will end by the universe.
I can agree with that!

You're another pixel on the universe's infinite liquid crystal display. How long before you go dead? Don't waste your time on the small shit like arguing who has the best interpretation of universal unity...I'm guessing Lydia's a very important woman to you? That's good...love and Love are some big things to spend your time on...some real substance. So is bettering yourself for the benefit of all.
Yes she is. :) Again, sounds good to me... but there is a difference between love and Love with a capital?

I try not to talk about my personal interpretation of the universe...it creates bickering and distracts from the message I'm trying to get out to totse.
"Quit stressing the shit everyone tells you is important and find what keeps Japanese students that didn't make the cut from going Seppuku on their own ass: hope, love, and trust."

That's my own quote by the way...feel free to use it. You can accredit it to either Adam Hansen or Aron Leccel...they're the same person, so neither one would mind. :P
Well, would you mind e-mailing me about it? Besides my curiosity, you've also inspired me to change the thesis of my English paper; if you wouldn't mind, I might need some help on that. =P

I lost my Love a few days ago...hurts like hell, but it was worth it.
What happened?

Not to de-rail the thread, though... my e-mail is twisted.ferret at gmail dot com. I won't hate you if you don't though :D