What if we had church of atheism and we discussed science, evolution, and other political issues. Would you attend? What else would we talk about? What day would it be on? What about holidays?

Atheism is not a religion, having a "church of atheism" is a contradiction in terms, not unlike "creation science."

Atheism is not a religion, having a "church of atheism" is a contradiction in terms, not unlike "creation science."

There are Atheist churches though.

Look at how much people want God in their life! They're even willing to make Atheist churches.

sad, amazing, funny, I don't know which. all three?

we already have a church of atheism, it's called reality.

Its called humanism.

we already have a church of atheism, it's called reality.

"reality"?

Why would anyone put effort into sending themselves to hell? :rolleyes:

What if we had church of atheism and we discussed science, evolution, and other political issues. Would you attend? What else would we talk about? What day would it be on? What about holidays?

They do have atheist churches it was really started by some French philosopher who makes theyre meeting day Sunday and now if you have been baptised they "unbaptise" you or something like that its fastly spreading through Europe so it seems like what atheist dont like (organised religeon) their sect is becoming a pat of and where i heard it from said that when the French philosopher who started this holds his talkings on Sunday described it as "sold out" so i assume he is charging so just like the people you hate he is doing this for money.

atheism is like of theology
church implies theology
its an oxymoron.

Instead of having sceptics meetings (aka church of atheism) why not find intelligent people of any faith. You know, become involved with an academic institution or group or something. Being an atheist doesnt make you informed, there are well informed people of all faiths, those who conform to the atheist label are generally stubborn angry people, chill with the agnostics. Our name even implies pursuit of knowlege (gnosis = knowledge)

oxymoron.


First thing that came to mind when I read the title of this thread.

You know, there are greedy atheists.

First off its not an oxymoron because the definition of church is an association of people who share a particular belief system. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church


Look at how much people want God in their life! They're even willing to make Atheist churches.

sad, amazing, funny, I don't know which. all three?

And second, I don't want God in my life, I just thought that maybe instead of listening to fairy tales on Sunday, people could go to a place where they gain actual knowledge that could help to form peoples beliefs and morals just like Christian church does except without all the fiction involved.

You need to remind everyone that it is YOUR OPINION that they are fairy tales otherwise people will actually believe you whe you call it fiction while presenting no facts and dont post shit about how it is fiction because you will have to prove EVERY religeon is fiction because you called all religeon fiction.

Sammy, I'm going to refer to you as "Stupid Bitch" from now on, because you've done absolutely nothing to suggest that would not be an accurate description of yourself. Now, onto your latest spewings:

"You need to remind everyone that it is YOUR OPINION that they are fairy tales otherwise people will actually believe you whe you call it fiction"

Oh no, we wouldn't want people to actually take a look at what they believe and why in order to come to a better conclusion, would we now, Stupid Bitch?

"while presenting no facts and dont post shit about how it is fiction because you will have to prove EVERY religeon is fiction because you called all religeon fiction."

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof... problem is, you and people like you are the ones making the extraordinary claims of god-beings creating the universe, and then "inspiring" holy books and other scriptures that tell humans how to act. A cursory, logical evaluation of the Bible for example will reveal all kinds of retarded mistakes and other fallacies that would suggest that not only is Christianity not true, but is actually a really offensive belief system to anyone that isn't a sociopath.

There is nothing that indicates that religion is anything more than a fanciful notion put forward by humans that are unable to face reality without some kind of emotional security blanket. Thusly, it is logical to conclude that these are nothing more than fairy tales.

There are many people that write so called "apologetics" (The very name should be a clue, Stupid Bitch) for these blatant errors and contradictions, but they themselves are *always* the result of poor logic, redefining words to mean other things for no reason or outright lies.

Now since you appear to be a total fucking moron, Stupid Bitch, this will be the last time I'll be relatively polite in responding to you.

You are a complete fucking moron just like the majority of atheists here you say that shit but conveniently forget we dont present that as fact nor do we try to present facts to prove it we BELIEVE it so before you try to say ignorant shit like that again and call me a "stupid bitch" just remember i know more about my religeon than you.

Firstly, Stupid Bitch: PERIODS. Use them, and you may find that you will appear to be less of an imbecile... at least until people actually read your posts. And here we go for round two, ding ding ding!

"You are a complete fucking moron just like the majority of atheists here"

Hit a nerve, have I? I love it when someone who believes in an invisible sky daddy with nothing tangible to back that up tells me what a "fucking moron" I am. Irony is just so entertaining!

"you say that shit but conveniently forget we dont present that as fact nor do we try to present facts to prove it"

BZZZT. Wrong! Many of you do (in fact I'd venture to say most of you, since why would you believe it otherwise?) peddle your twisted little beliefs as fact. There are theists on this very forum that attempt to do just that! They fail miserably, of course. Facts aren't facts when you pull them out of your ass, or a 2000 year old book of stories put together by bronze age goat herders.

"we BELIEVE it"

Just because you believe something Stupid Bitch, doesn't make it real. I can wish for a million dollars or the Starship Defiant all I like, but they're not doing to pop up or de-cloak on my front lawn anytime soon. Mere belief without anything to back it up beyond the age of 12 or so is, well... pathetic. Unless you still believe in Santa Claus too?

"so before you try to say ignorant shit like that again and call me a "stupid bitch" just remember i know more about my religeon than you."

You know something? I've talked to a lot of religious fucktards over the years, both online and face to face... and one thing I've noticed is that they come in two flavours:

-The ones that don't actually know anything about their religion, and therefore don't know anything outside of whatever their local religious authority tells them

-The ones that *do* know their religion quite well, and are therefore very adept at bullshitting their way around answering questions or explaining the various atrocities their "loving" God is responsible for.

I don't know which of the two groups you fall into, Stupid Bitch, since the one attribute both groups and you seem to share is being full of shit.

You are a perfect example of people that say alot without saying very much at all you say "many of you do" when i have not and since you are arguing with me you need to stick yo things i have said and you are correct just because i belive dosnt make it so but the same can be said for you just because you belive there is no God dosnt make it so.

BTW you sound real mature calling people names in a debate.

Round Three, hoo-hah!

"You are a perfect example of people that say alot without saying very much at all"

If I've been repeating myself, it's because you're simply too stupid to absorb the information in one go.

"you say "many of you do" when i have not and since you are arguing with me you need to stick yo things i have said "

You said "we", as in "religionists like me don't do that." You can either be completely wrong here, or rush headlong into a No True Scotsman fallacy, in which case you will be wrong, only in a different way. Variety is the spice of life, Stupid Bitch!

"and you are correct just because i belive dosnt make it so"

Your terrible spelling has butchered the point I was making, but nonetheless this is the first intelligent thing I've ever seen you say. Congratulations!

"but the same can be said for you just because you belive there is no God dosnt make it so."

Indeed, that is what "reason", "logic" and "facts" are for. These are things that I have, and you do not. This is why I am right, and you are a stupid bitch.

"BTW you sound real mature calling people names in a debate."

I see no reason to afford you any kind of respect until you grow up and listen to reason instead of whatever your emotional safety blanket is telling you.

Surak, insults are more effective when used with tact rather than indiscriminate frivolity.

There is nothing that indicates that religion is anything more than a fanciful notion put forward by humans that are unable to face reality without some kind of emotional security blanket.

1. Not all religions appeal to emotional stability.

2. Every cultural group on the planet, without exception, has its roots in a theological mode of thought outside modern Christianity. Surely, you agree that this implies a ubiquitously human psychological dedication to the unseen elements of daily life.

If I want to discuss science and politics (or anything really), why would I want to restrict myself to just Atheists?
I'd rather sit in on public forums or join student clubs that discuss these issues.
And I don't care what Wiki has to say about it, but the word 'Church' will always have ties to faith and worship, making the term 'Atheist Church' sound just damn silly.

First off its not an oxymoron because the definition of church is an association of people who share a particular belief system. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church

And second, I don't want God in my life, I just thought that maybe instead of listening to fairy tales on Sunday, people could go to a place where they gain actual knowledge that could help to form peoples beliefs and morals just like Christian church does except without all the fiction involved.

First of all, it's not fiction.

Secondly, why would they need an "athiest church" for that? It seems to me you have described a secular kindergarden class (teaches morals without teaching about God).

We have Churches of Atheism, it's called the public school system.

If I want to discuss science and politics (or anything really), why would I want to restrict myself to just Atheists?
I'd rather sit in on public forums or join student clubs that discuss these issues.
And I don't care what Wiki has to say about it, but the word 'Church' will always have ties to faith and worship, making the term 'Atheist Church' sound just damn silly.

Right on ^

I certainly don't narrow down who I fellowship with regarding science, politics or philosophy to just atheists.

And I certainly don't need the back-slapping support and validation from other non-believers in order to maintain my own secular beliefs. Sharing ideas and goals with them is one thing - conglomerating in a ritualistic sense and harvesting additional "members" would be time better spent doing something more productive in society.

You missed my thread... eh?

Atheism is not something that unites people. Not at all. We shouldn't come together because of the values that we lack... that's just silly. They don't have not-star-trek-fan conventions... in the same way that not collecting stamps is not a hobby in itself. There isn't some atheist doctrine that we should all follow, and come together underneath of.

However, there are common values that I'm sure we could easily find. The things we hold high in our lives... such as life affirmation, cutting ties to any "life eternal" or "beyond" and focusing on our short time on this earth... thats a value that no Christian can truly live by. Absolute equality without special privileges (aka churches being tax exempt), no absolute morality, no absolute truth...

These are all "hobbies", if you will, that only those without a god (or at least a religion) can truly hold dear. We should not be united by what we do not believe in, but the values that we find highly important in our lives. The atheism might be what allows this in us... or the atheism itself might spawn from these values... either way it's what we DO value that we should come together under, and ultimately fight for.

The only time I see it being okay to unite solely under atheism... is the aftermath of some sort of religious persecution. If I was jumped by a couple of religious nut jobs, because I am an atheist... then I would love to have another person without a god, to give me their support. That bond is for coping though... you know?

Round Three, hoo-hah!



If I've been repeating myself, it's because you're simply too stupid to absorb the information in one go.



You said "we", as in "religionists like me don't do that." You can either be completely wrong here, or rush headlong into a No True Scotsman fallacy, in which case you will be wrong, only in a different way. Variety is the spice of life, Stupid Bitch!



Your terrible spelling has butchered the point I was making, but nonetheless this is the first intelligent thing I've ever seen you say. Congratulations!



Indeed, that is what "reason", "logic" and "facts" are for. These are things that I have, and you do not. This is why I am right, and you are a stupid bitch.



I see no reason to afford you any kind of respect until you grow up and listen to reason instead of whatever your emotional safety blanket is telling you.

Your a moron (possibly a troll) and are so ignorant that arguing with you is unprofitable and vain so i will not be saying anything else to you.

Our name even implies pursuit of knowlege (gnosis = knowledge)

It's agnostic, meaning lack of knowledge. ;)

its to express lack of conviction.

"Atheism" does not deny religion.

a = without
the = god

There are many atheistic religions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism). Get it right.

And a church of non-religion doesn't make much sense to me.

People could go to a place where they gain actual knowledge that could help to form peoples beliefs and morals just like Christian church does except without all the fiction involved.

That's what school's for.

we already have a church of atheism, it's called reality.

its called school

"Atheism" does not deny religion.

a = without
the = god
Not quite, "the" has to do with belief, its the same root as theory. Theism is having a belief or religion atheism is lack there of. I suggest you do proper research instead of citing wikipedia nextime /flame

2. Every cultural group on the planet, without exception, has its roots in a theological mode of thought outside modern Christianity. Surely, you agree that this implies a ubiquitously human psychological dedication to the unseen elements of daily life.

Lol, so are you saying that we should start praying to Greek earth gods for a good harvest this year instead of putting fertiliser in?
Well you tell me how that goes.

Not quite, "the" has to do with belief, its the same root as theory. Theism is having a belief or religion atheism is lack there of. I suggest you do proper research instead of citing wikipedia nextime /flame

Definitions of atheism on the Web:

* the doctrine or belief that there is no God
* a lack of belief in the existence of God or gods
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

* Atheism is the state either of being without theistic beliefs, or of actively disbelieving in the existence of deities.

* The belief that God does not exist.
library.thinkquest.org/25416/gloss.htm

* One who denies or disbelieves the existence of a God.#
www.stsams.org/dictionary.html

* A belief that there are no gods. Greek "a-theos": without-god.


Etc etc. There's pages of this. The meanings of the component roots of a word aren't neccessarily exactly the same as the meaning of the compound word itself.

Not quite, "the" has to do with belief, its the same root as theory. Theism is having a belief or religion atheism is lack there of. I suggest you do proper research instead of citing wikipedia nextime /flame

Actually no, he's right.

They're not the same root.

The the in atheism is derived from theos (god)

The the in theory is derived from theoria (the act of contemplation)

Atheist means without god not without religion or belief.

Maybe you should follow your own advice before you start flaming people.

Just what we need, an excuse for idiots to bin their brains and follow the leader

It's agnostic, meaning lack of knowledge. ;)

Ah, but admitting you don't know an answer is the first step to finding it.

Actually no, he's right.

They're not the same root.

The the in atheism is derived from theos (god)

The the in theory is derived from theoria (the act of contemplation)

Atheist means without god not without religion or belief.

Maybe you should follow your own advice before you start flaming people.

theos and theoria both are based upon a basic 'theo' which if I'm not mistaken, was used to convey divine insight. Theos being the revealer, or a god; and theoria being meditating on the divine for insight. Let's not forget though, that pretty much anything that wasn't common knowledge was seen as the 'divine', so most any thought fits well with this view in good ol' Greece.

theos and theoria both are based upon a basic 'theo' which if I'm not mistaken, was used to convey divine insight. Theos being the revealer, or a god; and theoria being meditating on the divine for insight. Let's not forget though, that pretty much anything that wasn't common knowledge was seen as the 'divine', so most any thought fits well with this view in good ol' Greece.

I suspect that they evolved from the same word, but are not synonymous with it.

I suspect that they evolved from the same word, but are not synonymous with it.

Definitely not the same meaning, but their common linguistic lineage is based upon knowledge being a divine attribute to ye olde civilizations. The pantheons always had unique knowledge, especially the heads of the pantheons.

Atheist church lmao. The sad thing is I can see it happening. They might as well make a 'i'm confused about the meaning of life and don't know anything about the nature of reality' church. We could sit around and wonder why and not believe in anything. Next meeting might exsist never.

It's called the North Texas Church of Freethought. I'm going to check it out soon.

Lol, so are you saying that we should start praying to Greek earth gods for a good harvest this year instead of putting fertiliser in?
Well you tell me how that goes.

Didn't say that. What I am saying, if you had paid attention, is that religion should not be disregarded as an "emotional blanket," since (A) not all religions offer one; (B) not all human beings need one; and (C) religion still exists in every culture in spite of A and B being true.

That, by the way, is a fact that you are unfortunately not alone in ignoring, but I'll give you the first opportunity to break that cycle.

Didn't say that. What I am saying, if you had paid attention, is that religion should not be disregarded as an "emotional blanket," since (A) not all religions offer one; (B) not all human beings need one; and (C) religion still exists in every culture in spite of A and B being true.

That, by the way, is a fact that you are unfortunately not alone in ignoring, but I'll give you the first opportunity to break that cycle.

Tyrant, if I were gay I'd offer to suck your dick. Good post, as usual.

How can you say religion is not an emotional blanket.
As far as I can see, that is all it is. People don't know what comes next so they find something they can believe in to distract themselves from the fear there is nothing after and that living is pointless. Without religion, if people were smarter, mass suicide would be common, there is no point of living we might as well preserve the environment for those with a purpose or those who can be blissfully ignorant of having no purpose. I don't have a religion because I can live with the fact life is pointless on the basis that I'd still rather suffer through life then make those close to me suffer by commiting suicide. It's a connundrum I tellz ye. But back to the begging, what is the function of religion other then a social casteing system, a gathering system, a controlling system, and an emotional/spiritual blanket?

How can you say religion is not an emotional blanket.
As far as I can see, that is all it is. People don't know what comes next so they find something they can believe in to distract themselves from the fear there is nothing after and that living is pointless. Without religion, if people were smarter, mass suicide would be common, there is no point of living we might as well preserve the environment for those with a purpose or those who can be blissfully ignorant of having no purpose. I don't have a religion because I can live with the fact life is pointless on the basis that I'd still rather suffer through life then make those close to me suffer by commiting suicide. It's a connundrum I tellz ye. But back to the begging, what is the function of religion other then a social casteing system, a gathering system, a controlling system, and an emotional/spiritual blanket?

What is the function of pursuing knowledge, other than social casting systems, gathering systems, controlling systems, and emotional/spiritual blankets (after all, these are almost exclusively what knowledge is used for, just as religion)? Are you so blind that you can't see ignorance is as much a void for the scientist as disbelief is for the theist? It's all there to fill what we believe to be missing from the picture.

The young scientist sees his ignorance, feels shame, and seeks out knowledge to fill his void of pity.

The young theist sees his godlessness, feels shame, and seeks out faith to fill his void of pity.

We see something different in ourself, and instead of cherishing what bit of uniqueness we have, we feel pity for ourselves and seek out to erase our 'flaw'...and when we believe ourselves to be more schooled in our area of expertise than those who possess different traits, different dreams and aspirations, we grow proud in our entirely useless gains. The theist sees himself as a saved and enlightened being, the scientist sees himself as a logical and knowledgeable being. They're both too damned ashamed of what they once were...blind now, not only with pity, but with arrogant and foolhardy pride. They see themselves as a sort of authority over those who aren't as skilled in ONE trade, failing to remember that they have only pursued one dream out of millions...failing to see that even as much as they have flourished in their dream, they have died in all other dreams.

They dedicated themselves to a lie...they dedicated themselves to fixing a problem that was never there. By doing so, we now have the 'problems' of today. Religious wars and conflict for the theists. Weapons from stone axes to hydrogen bombs to be used in these wars from the scientists. These are the pitiful and proud creations of the faithful and the thinkers...these creations of ego are the tools to be used in the death of all humanity.

I couldn't agree more.
But you are accepting religious institution as a spiritual/emotional blanket, a safety net for when life gets too tough. I'm neither theist nor atheist I'm a balance where I accept that I do not know one way or the other. I wait to figure it out. I don't feel ashamed with my lack of knowledge, I merely seek it to try and find answers fill in the blanks of my understanding. Maybe through wisdom I can figure out what comes later (I doubt it, but its my best shot)

But you are accepting religious institution as a spiritual/emotional blanket, a safety net for when life gets too tough.

Read the discussion I have with AngryFemme in this thread. It begins towards the bottom of page 1. (http://www.totse.com/community/showthread.php?t=2009639)