Don't worry if you don't get the thread title. It's not for YOU.

Tools.

I'll give a hint in the form of a question:

HOW did "the maker"(aka"God") make us?

"We couldn't possibly know"?

Does that even count as an explaination?

Why not just say "I don't know" and be done with it? It's equally informative.

Offering an answer to "Where did we come from?" is leading the interviewer. The question the everyone really wants to know is "How did we come to be?"

"God" doesn't answer that. What the hell does genisis claim again? We were made from clay in gods image?

Is that REALLY easier to swallow than I came from a monkey? Talk about a missing link.

No! Wait! There's Gumby and Mr. Bill! That's a fossil record to be proud of. I think we finally have an answer to "the chicken or the egg?"

I mean. Fuck. After genisis the entire bible is just a biography of God as a pseudo-answer to "How?" The reader forgets the question after being bombarded by example after example with the repetative punchline of: "Magic!"

They lose the skepticism through repetative doses of matter-of-factly explainations with out description of process. It's the worlds longest magic show.

In relation to one of your points (might not be the point of the thread but hey)

It's talking about spiritual image not physical appearance.

My point was that the supposed alternative theory to evolution is some sort of ceramic "Indian in the Cupboard" situation.

"Damn you Evil-utionists! How dare you question the fact that I was magicked into existence from a lump of clay!"

"spam, obscure and time-wasting"

Where the hell do these people get mod points? If you're going to mod me down have the balls to post in the thread so I can ridicule your beliefs.

Spam? I just pointed out the entire bible side-steps creation entirely which is the question it is supposed to answer.

It's like a smart ass 3rd grader telling you that the constitution was written by the authors of the constitution, and then rambling for 2 days about the merits of the bill of rights till you forget the original question.


What's the difference between a magician and a priest?
A: A priest's magic wand looks like a book.

So what if the parent post was an inside joke that no one would understand. I realized that once I was finished being full of myself and explained the backstory well enough. Is your complaint really that I didn't spell it out enough that someone naive enough to believe in god could understand it?

Aside from all that, I don't think you know what the word spam means. If I hadn't followed up it would be debatable as trolling, but if anything you just demonstrated your own inability to read the whole thread. If you did read it, and your brain didn't connect the dots yourself, see the first post.

I'm not here to persuade. I'm talking past you to fellow atheists. Grow up and stop believing in the toothfairy and it won't seem obscure to you.

This always bothers me whenever discussion about creation comes up. Evolution is not an explanation of how life started but actually an explanation of how life has changed. Evolution is here to explain why life from one time is different then another not how it originally got here. To me using the term and proofs of evolution to disprove any form of creation is just as bad as the bible side stepping the issue. Evolution Tells me how C came to be by saying
A -> B -> C but not where A (life) came from. The only difference is that science at least is trying to solve the problem. I am atheist so don't start yelling at me and calling me a tool.

If I'm not getting anything I'm open for corrections.:confused:

If you want to talk about magic then lets talk about nothing making something from nothing. If you want to talk about how religeon explains this then lets talk about a supernatural all powerful all knowing all present being creating something out of nothing but dont get the two mixed up.

So:

Complexities origin:

Complexity originates from the reality the environment will select from biologically observable and explainable changes those that lend towards survival and this has the net effect of sharpening the descendants towards being more fit for said environment. Complexity is one such strategy of survival.

vs.

Complexity came from something even more complicated.

Where did that complexity come from?

"I guess something super complicated."

And then?

"What do you want from me! It's impossible to say."

But the first step up isn't?

"No"

OK then.


It's like they claimed to be all knowing, pulled a question out of a hat, and didn't know the answer, so they said <insert proper noun> did it, and by the way, he said to stop asking that question. From here on, asking that question will be known as blasphemy. Blasphemy is bad.

The reality is, religion is nothing more than a social club, with the rules being a matter of fashion. It's not an explaination. It's a badge to wear and a line to draw so you can align yourselves for points of philosophical debate.

The reality is, religion is nothing more than a social club, with the rules being a matter of fashion. It's not an explaination. It's a badge to wear and a line to draw so you can align yourselves for points of philosophical debate.

Your wrong.

If you want to talk about magic then lets talk about nothing making something from nothing. If you want to talk about how religeon explains this then lets talk about a supernatural all powerful all knowing all present being creating something out of nothing but dont get the two mixed up.

Religion is defined by this sidestepping of the question of how creation happened. It's agnosticism with strings attatched.

1.Your wrong.
2.You dodged what i said.

I hadn't read what you said at that time, that's 0 for you adding to my credibility.

Religion is defined by this sidestepping of the question of how creation happened. It's agnosticism with strings attatched.

That is the most idiotic and rediculous statement ive heard in a while.

BTW I edited my post.

1.Your wrong.
2.You dodged what i said.

Elaborate on 1.

Elaborate on 1.

The statement is complete crap there is no need to elaborate.

That is the most idiotic and rediculous statement ive heard in a while.

BTW I edited my post.

What religion doesn't just pass the issue of creation up one more level and tell you that it's impossible to know beyond that ceilling?

Science is the only one working on a ladder to heaven and beyond.

"What religion doesn't just pass the issue of creation up one more level and tell you that it's impossible to know beyond that ceilling?"

I have no idea what the fuck you are talking about that statement again is pure shit.

"Science is the only one working on a ladder to heaven and beyond."

How is science exclusively atheist?

"The reality is, religion is nothing more than a social club, with the rules being a matter of fashion. It's not an explaination. It's a badge to wear and a line to draw so you can align yourselves for points of philosophical debate."

Ok, I'll elaborate since what you're really saying is: "You haven't convinced me."

With the purpose of explaining creation invalidated as unfulfilled, you're left with the question of "what else does religion do?"

It offers a philosophy of living and a post death explaination.

Religion is : Where the fuck did life come from?; How the fuck should I live it?; and WTF happens after?

It fails at the first part, the second part merits my analogy, and the lacking of authority to explain what happens after from the failure to explain the prior makes the third part bunk as well.

Religion's only valid purpose that it actually fulfills is equivilent to that of a social club.

"What religion doesn't just pass the issue of creation up one more level and tell you that it's impossible to know beyond that ceilling?"

I have no idea what the fuck you are talking about that statement again is pure shit.

"Science is the only one working on a ladder to heaven and beyond."

How is science exclusively atheist?

Because Religion is unscientific, and once again, failure to understand doesn't make me wrong. Name a religion that doesn't just pass off the explaination of creation beyond some metaphor? That's right, there isn't one, because without that, it's called philosophy, and either way, it's dressed up agnosticism.

"

Religion is : Where the fuck did life come from?; How the fuck should I live it?; and WTF happens after?



Right off your wrong religion in my mind (in other words my opinion) is religion is who created me/who let me come into be ok its (insert God/gods name here) so since (insert whatever heare) loved me so much to do this i should love (insert whatever here) back and do what (insert whatever here) commands me to do.

Right off your wrong religion in my mind (in other words my opinion) is religion is who created me/who let me come into be ok its (insert God/gods name here) so since (insert whatever heare) loved me so much to do this i should love (insert whatever here) back and do what (insert whatever here) commands me to do.

Where is your proof that (insert whatever here) created you?

Obviously you were created, but you are being manipulated by a gang who has convinced you they know what (insert whatever here) is and that (insert whatever here) wants you to do this. This including not questioning his will or his "messengers."**

Who told you this and why should you believe them? I would offer to recreate any evidence they have provided of their divinity, but I would be fighting against the "who mommy hears first is the one she believes" syndrome. I would say, that wasn't (insert whatever here)! That was (insert different whatever here)! THIS is what (insert different whatever here) wants you to do! You owe it to (insert different whatever here), (insert whatever here) is a false idol!



**If they are willing to allow you to question them, that just reflects on lack of interest in your faith, or the messengers lack of faith in your ability to find holes in their theory.

Where is your proof that (insert whatever here) created you?

Obviously you were created, but you are being manipulated by a gang who has convinced you they know what (insert whatever here) is and that (insert whatever here) wants you to do this. This including not questioning his will or his "messengers."**

Who told you this and why should you believe them? I would offer to recreate any evidence they have provided of their divinity, but I would be fighting against the "who mommy hears first is the one she believes" syndrome. I would say, that wasn't (insert whatever here)! That was (insert different whatever here)! THIS is what (insert different whatever here) wants you to do! You owe it to (insert different whatever here), (insert whatever here) is a false idol!



**If they are willing to allow you to question them, that just reflects on lack of interest in your faith, or the messengers lack of faith in your ability to find holes in their theory.

I dont have to prove anything to you all I know and care about is through my personal life expirience and knowledge ive learned and gathered is what ive chosen is the most logical.

Sorry if it dosnt sound right ive g2g but the basic premis (which is you are wrong and dont tell me what i believe and why) is whats important.

I came back to the thread to note that "for the record that your reasoning was very respectable."

I wouldn't try to tell you what to believe. I'm merely suggesting that religion rides entirely on the credibility of the assertion which IMO is never enough to merit faith.