So if you sin and don't follow God, you will be tortured in hell. But Hell is evidently ran by Satan, God's arch nemesis. If Satan were eally evil, would he not reward people for sinning? It would make far more sense if Hell were ran by God....swing and a miss

I think the thing with that is that hell is supposed to be a naturally sucky place that tortures people by itself and the devil was banished there.

If Satan and other bad spirits are there and can wield so much power as to make ordinary people sin, why not go to hell and join them?
And what would suffering in hell be like? Its only your eternal soul left so anything like physical pain is out of the question.
Emotional pain? Satan would show you how he tortures your GF and you cant do anything about it? That would work on some people but to some extent. If the soul was an egoist, then emotional torture would also almost completely be pointless, unless he made the soul ugly and all, but what about people that wouldnt just give a shit about it?
Existence pain? Pain caused by boredom of infinite time that you would have to stay at a boring place like hell?
Maybe.

Hell is being terrified of an uncontrollable imagination. It's not something imposed from an outside force.

The Christian view of hell isnt a place where Satan (haha, I typed "Stan" twice before I hit a) reigns. Thats a silly misconception. From the Christian religion, Hell is a place of punishment firstly for Satan and the angels that joined him during the insurrection (I cant recall, was that before, after, or sometime in between the creation of the uiverse and fall of man?)

Even still, Satan isnt really in Hell at the moment, only some of the most powerful demons which are in Tatarus. If we are to think like jack's thread on people not being in heaven AT THIS MOMENT, then we can extend that to say that no person in in Hell at this exact moment (contrast that to Gehenna, which was before Christ's death), and that Hell is the Lake of Fire.

Satan, according to the Bible, is actively working in the world and inhabits it at this time, not Hell. Likewise, he does reward people for evil deeds. Karma eventually catches up with them, but they have their earthly reward for their sins, which amounts to pretty much a good time.

well the fact that heaven and hell doesn't exist and anyone who belives that is an idiot is enough of answer to end the thread. i guess the thread is pointless

well the fact that heaven and hell doesn't exist and anyone who belives that is an idiot is enough of answer to end the thread. i guess the thread is pointless

Ohh you have proof do you?!!!

Yeah you can't go saying that they definitely don't exist. You can say that there's no evidence and therefore an infinitely low probability that it does exist.

I KNOW for a fact Sheol exists. And one day we will all find ourselves there , inconcious, where nothing exists ..'asleep' if you like it in biblical terms (ie dead and rotting).

I HOPE that at some point that Ha schem/God/El / t3h Big Kahuna will 'remember the work of his hands' and resurrect me to an immortal life on a New Earth.

And the more science progresses the more this seems possible .

I don't find the christian concepts of 'heaven' or 'hell' in the bible.

Ohh you have proof do you?!!!

Do you have proof Zeus doesn't exist?

I like the Final Fantasy X version myself.

Do you have proof Zeus doesn't exist?

OF COURSE he exists (http://tinyurl.com/2n3fxh)! Although he was better as 'Jules'.

if god existed then there wouldn't be niggers and faggot. so i win

Do you have proof Zeus doesn't exist?

No I dont, but I dont go around saying I know FOR FACT that he does not.

Bitch pleez, we been over dis. (http://www.ovrlnd.com/Cults/poprejectshell.html)

"During his weekly address to the general audience of 8,500 people at the Vatican on July 28, 1999, Pope John Paul II rejected the reality of a physical, literal hell as a place of eternal fire and torment. Rather, the pope said hell is separation, even in this life, from the joyful communion with God."

So if you sin and don't follow God, you will be tortured in hell. But Hell is evidently ran by Satan, God's arch nemesis. If Satan were eally evil, would he not reward people for sinning? It would make far more sense if Hell were ran by God....swing and a miss

I've thought of exactly this before, only Satan isn't gods nemesis. He's actually gods most trusted arch angel which is why he was granted his own opinion, and given the chance to prove humans unworthy of gods love in his own private domain with his own henchmen.

The name Satan translates approximately to "adversary". He's humanities adversary, so I assume he's not too easy on people in Hell. Afterall, he's on gods side, he's just trying to prove god wrong.

Cheers,
Lost

I've thought of exactly this before, only Satan isn't gods nemesis. He's actually gods most trusted arch angel which is why he was granted his own opinion, and given the chance to prove humans unworthy of gods love in his own private domain with his own henchmen.

The name Satan translates approximately to "adversary". He's humanities adversary, so I assume he's not too easy on people in Hell. Afterall, he's on gods side, he's just trying to prove god wrong.

Cheers,
Lost

youaredumb

No, Satan is completely evil and has no friend or allies.

Those who help him are used and then thrown out.

His only goal is to destroy as many lives as possible before he himself is destroyed by God.

I've thought of exactly this before, only Satan isn't gods nemesis. He's actually gods most trusted arch angel which is why he was granted his own opinion, and given the chance to prove humans unworthy of gods love in his own private domain with his own henchmen.

The name Satan translates approximately to "adversary". He's humanities adversary, so I assume he's not too easy on people in Hell. Afterall, he's on gods side, he's just trying to prove god wrong.

Cheers,
Lost

Seems pretty insightful to me.

Bitch pleez, we been over dis. (http://www.ovrlnd.com/Cults/poprejectshell.html)

"During his weekly address to the general audience of 8,500 people at the Vatican on July 28, 1999, Pope John Paul II rejected the reality of a physical, literal hell as a place of eternal fire and torment. Rather, the pope said hell is separation, even in this life, from the joyful communion with God."

Which in complete abstraction it is, however the Bible makes it pretty clear that the fires of hell are literal.

[...]

I don't find the christian concepts of 'heaven' or 'hell' in the bible.

What about the "lake of fire" in Revelation 20:10-15?

Rev 20:15 and anyone not found written in the book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Sure sounds like hell to me...

What about the "lake of fire" in Revelation 20:10-15?

Rev 20:15 and anyone not found written in the book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Sure sounds like hell to me...

Sure sounds to me that someone needs to think about revelations a bit more...maybe start by pondering who 'the dead' are/were?

Sure sounds to me that someone needs to think about revelations a bit more...maybe start by pondering who 'the dead' are/were?

Well, I just re-read the portion in question and it appears to be referring to the dead period (Rev 20:12 ...and the dead were judged according to their works, by the things that were written in the books.) The whole section is referencing the "Judgment" and seems pretty cut and dry to me. Of course I am no NT scholar so my interpretation could be off. So with that in mind if you could enlighten me as to the correct one I would be most grateful... I am always willing to learn something new.:p

I've thought of exactly this before, only Satan isn't gods nemesis. He's actually gods most trusted arch angel which is why he was granted his own opinion, and given the chance to prove humans unworthy of gods love in his own private domain with his own henchmen.

The name Satan translates approximately to "adversary". He's humanities adversary, so I assume he's not too easy on people in Hell. Afterall, he's on gods side, he's just trying to prove god wrong.

Cheers,
Lost

Apparently you've never read the Bible. If God was testing people to see if they are good, heaven would be empty! The bible clearly says that no one is good, people are not saved by their works but by faith in Jesus Christ. (Romans 2:9-31)

No, Satan is completely evil and has no friend or allies.

Those who help him are used and then thrown out.

His only goal is to destroy as many lives as possible before he himself is destroyed by God.

First let's define satan (worth reading):


Where one makes his home Satan leaps about; where merriment rules, or wheresoever there is eating or drinking, he brings his accusations (Gen. R. xxxviii. 7); and when there is a chance that prosperity may be enjoyed in this world or in the next he likewise rises up as an accuser. Even Jacob was forced to prove to Satan that he had borne much suffering in this world (Gen. R. lxxxiv., in Weber, "System der Altsynagogalen Palästinischen Theologie," p. 323); and when Satan reveals the sins of Israel to God others plead the alms which Israel has given (Ex. R. xxxi.). In the hour of birth, and thus in the hour of peril, he brings his accusation against the mother (Eccl. R. iii. 2). The serpent of Gen. iii. is identified with Satan (see Weber, l.c. pp. 218 et seq.; comp. Adam; Eve; Serpent).


As opposed to "The Devil", which is a wholly Christian concept, that is, one who tempts, Satan is merely an accuser, a "lawyer in the court of God" so to speak.

And now for the eternal question: If Satan ("The Devil") tempts us so much, why doesn't God just destroy him to stop mankinds' suffering? I mean it's not like humans sinned and created "The Devil", why should we get punished, isn't Original Sin enough?

The idea of Hell is that it is complete disconnection from God. Therefore, even Satan suffers in Hell. Whether or not Satan and the other fallen angels or demons or whatever torture the denizens of Hell, the denizens of Hell are in agony regardless. That said, I bet Hell's a pretty chill place.

To those who like to look for what realities have inspired fantasy in literary works, this post might be something to read.

God is your outer (or human) brain, the adversary is your inner (or reptilian) brain. The outer brain is responsible for your consciousness, the inner brain for your subconscious. The inner brain wants to murder, rape, cheat, lie, steal. The outer brain is the inner brain's master: it filters the inner brain's commands and decides just how often, and in which ways your urges can be satisfied (believed to be in order to maintain social connections and increase survivability).

I think this plays out throughout the Bible: the adversary is working for God. Though it brings pain to the people involved, if you only have one choice/action in a situation, there is no will at all, let alone free will.

Let me know if you got anything from that.

Hmmmm... interesting, so the inner brain is an evolutionary mechanism, while the outer brain is a product of human consiousness?

Hell is being terrified of an uncontrollable imagination. It's not something imposed from an outside force.

So, hell is basically an eternal salvia trip, minus the smoking of salvia.

if god existed then there wouldn't be niggers and faggot. so i win

Holy shit, thats all the proof we need! Niggers are a sure sign that there is no god.

Fuck, I'm atheist and that still pisses me off.

Hmmmm... interesting, so the inner brain is an evolutionary mechanism, while the outer brain is a product of human consiousness?

Human consciousness is a product of the outer brain. Much like all animals with a developed outer brain maintain a stronger awareness than those without. Mammals have more personality than reptiles, reptiles more than insects. It seems though, humans having the most developed outer brains, have the largest filtering of their inner brain, and thus have the most abundant choice of avenues to travel in pursuit of their inner brains' desires; even a particularly special avenue that I believe the 'narrow path' in the Bible refers to: attempting a self-denial of the inner brain's urges.

Of course, we aren't fully aware of our subconsciousness, so even if we put ourselves entirely into any one path, we will stray. I think this inability to be perfectly focused is the inspiration for a salvation in the Bible - a tool to better focus an individual on a path of self-denial.

Read the NT carefully, and you'll notice there's nothing regarding a physical receiving of Christ...it's always a receiving of the Spirit. Perhaps a receiving of the Spirit is akin to finding whatever it is that moves you to give rather than take? After all, giving freely and indiscriminately of yourself is the crux of the message put forth by Jesus; it's his 'spirit', so to speak.

To the best of my knowledge ( Which isn't very reliable) Satan is frozen in a block of ice in hell.